Civilian casualties

[DOGS THAT BARK]

Just read where there were several killed by rocket on residential street.Admittedly it is sad but what the f--k are they doing driving around when we send leaflets to stay indoors.How do you prevent them when your fightening a regime that primary defense is using them as shields?
----and one more thing.Name one war in history of the world where one side goes through time and expense to warn civilians in advance to get out of dodge or at least stay in your homes.
I callenge any one to find any conflict anywhere,anytime where one side has put forth this amount of effort to spare civilians--and a step further,name one that has went through more effort "to" target civilians than terrorists from the middle east.

Thought this was interesting from U.S. News and World Report.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm.../the_truth_about_casualties&cid=927&ncid=1501

and----

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/usatoday/20030326/ts_usatoday/4991513&e=3&ncid=676

 

[T-MONEY]

When our leaders tell us one of the reasons for the war is to ?liberate? the Iraqi people; then it stands to reason we should try to keep them alive.

 

[StevieD]

I do not remember the liberation of the people of Iraq coming up during the presidential campaign but I could be wrong.

 

[djv]

This is about WMD people are second. It is awar zone. One way to protect your self is leave that zone. Some will say all those people move. Yes to safer places. In WWII many more then 5 million moved to safer places. And many stayed and died. There will be mistakes made. However Iraq Soldiers useing ther own people as human shields. Will cause more death then we will with our action.

 

[ferdville]

The people of Iraq are safer now in the middle of a war than they are at the hands of Saddam and his henchman on any day in May. Some are even getting food now in a country where thousands die from hunger every month despite the oil that flows freely. Estimates range from 150,000 to 300,000 people slain by Saddam and his followers - and this is from Amnesty International, not exactly one of those right wing conspiracy groups.

 

[DR STRANGELOVE]

why stay in the area of a war zone?

I will never understand...
:shrug:

 

[TheItalianguy]

don't you know that president bush is bringing western democracy? liberating the people...by bombing them. they'll love it. now there is the sad part, they have to keep going or he'll lose face with everyone. Baghdad has 5 million people, I guess whoever remains standing after the seige will be liberated.

 

[dr. freeze]

heard reports that Iraqi people ARE trying to leave but are being forced back to Baghdad by those dudes in black tunics whatever their names are....

Saddam does not want them to leave Baghdad....he wants civilian casualties so that Al Jazeer and others can broadcast the atrocities that the criminal Americans do....

in other words, he is sacrificing his own people

my girlfriend works with a girl from Iraq....escaped from there in the 1980's during the conflict with Iran....had some little girls at the time.....during one particular incident, the little girl went outside on the porchlike deck thing to retrieve some dishware....unfortunately the little girl was not "covered" right -- had some hair flowing out of her tunic deal....mom saw an Iraqi cop coming down the street....fortunately got little girl inside before a travesty would have resulted.....

rules in Iraq and Iran and who knows where else in the Muslim world if they aren't covered correctly? DEATH.....and thats IF they are not virgins.....if they are virgins, they get raped in front of their familes first.....cuz you cannot kill a virgin.....then they kill them....

i don't understnad why Al Jazeer isn't spending their time broadcasting this shit since they are so focused on atrocities....or for that matter, why the hell aren't WE broadcasting this stuff....

Is it not politically correct to do so i wonder?????

 

[trademaster]

rules in Iraq and Iran and who knows where else in the Muslim world if they aren't covered correctly? DEATH.....and thats IF they are not virgins.....if they are virgins, they get raped in front of their familes first.....cuz you cannot kill a virgin.....then they kill them....

THATS BULLSHIT dude

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

I tell what isn't bullshit, if you and the Eddie Haskels of the world ever took time to put down your protesting signs and read a few Asian papers you see EVREY DAY there at least one headline of Muslims targeting civilians in "Asian" counrties.Only stands like we are taking inhibits it from being everyday occurance in Western countries.

todays headlines

Phillipines:Twelve dead in Philippine Muslim rebel attack ahead of peace talks (AFP) -

India:Muslim guerrillas massacre 24 Hindus in Indian Kashmir

Malaysia:Jakarta court upholds detention of Indonesian terror suspect

Pakistanakistani Islamist leader urges jihad against US (AFP)

Now you all pack your little protest signs around cause there will be a time they will be in your area, and since you all are in effect aiding them it is a shame those that do not will still receive the consequences of your actions.

 

[dr. freeze]

THATS BULLSHIT dude

okay.....i guess you would know.....why would she be lying???

 

[Turfgrass]

Freeze I think he saying that the action that was taken is bull....not what she was saying.

At least I hope that's what he was trying to say.

 

[djv]

We do hurt our selfs with pitcures sometimes. We show our giuded bombs blowing a building or tank up. They turn that around in the Arab, Asia papers and TV reports to make us look as the evil ones. Then they go out and recruit some more young folks to train as terroist. This is not a game in some bar. And when we see these pitcures someone is dieing. We would be better off to not show them. Oh I know there are alot of folks sitting around cant wait to see them come sailing in and killing someone. If it was happening in there country they would not be as happy. We need to help our sellfs my not looking like we are injoying this. All it breeds is more hate toward us.

 

[dr. freeze]

we are NOT enjoying this....if you look at our soldiers, you will not see any of them smiling....

if you look at the Iraqi soldiers you will see them smiling, waving thier guns in the air, and mocking our POW's....

can you imagine what the press would do if we did this?????

where is the outrage at the Iraqi's "enjoyment" of this war???

now we have reports from the field -- from Iraqi POW's...that their women and children are being held hostage to force them to fight....

the beat goes on.....

 

[TheShrimp]

Freeze -- do you think for a moment that it's possible that WE see images of grim American soldiers doing this nasty business and smiling Iraqis killing Americans and they THEY see the complete opposite?

Is the notion that "one mans propaganda is another man's information" completely lost on you? Before reading some of these boards, I just figured that was instinctive.

I'm not saying that Al Jazeera is more trustworthy than Fox news, at all. However, I think its quite foolish to think that everything we broadcast is correct and factual and everything they broadcast is simply to spread Anti-american sentiment. Foolish.

Besides, I've seen our soldiers on TV cracking smiles and jokes about our M1 tanks going up against pick-up trucks with a machine gun in the back.

 

[djv]

Doc I understand that. But we are the ones trying to get the world to say good jop USA. Problem with our overal power we make it look like a turkey shoot. We know its tougher out there and the easy part is over. But the world gets pitcure of us as the nasty ones. Im just saying dont give them fuel for there fire.

 

[trademaster]

okay.....i guess you would know.....why would she be lying???

i am not saying she is lying but the way u make it sound is it happens to everyone...what happened to her is a rare thing not a everyday thing....
every female in Iran doesn't have to cover themselves just to let u know

 

[dr. freeze]

how would you know??

have you lived there?

i think someone who has actually lived there would know myself....and she says yes...it DOES happen to everyone....or at least anyone who is caught and reported for being uncovered....

makes me wonder.....where are the Women's Rights people???

Martha Burke is more worried about getting a woman into a men's private club than this shit.....unreal!!!!!

meanwhile Martha Burke runs her own women's orgainization.....:nono:

 

[ferdville]

Democracy to Iraq? There is no chance that will happen. Outside of Qatar, is there anything resembling a democracy in the Middle East? I believe we are just trying to make it possible for the Iraqui people to actually have a say in their politics. Hussein garnered 100% of the votes in the last election - hardly a situation where people have a choice. And, as one other astute individual pointed out before, we are not a democracy in the United States but a Democratic Republic.

 

[Turfgrass]

MARTHA BURK --- OPPORTUNIST

For today?s vocabulary lesson today we will deal with the word ?opportunism.? The word comes from the noun ?opportunist.? An opportunist is ?one who takes advantage of any opportunity to achieve an end, often with no regard for principles or consequences.?

Our opportunist of the day is Martha Burk. You remember her, don?t you? Martha Burk is that woman you never heard of, until, that is, she hit on a great plan to thrust her name in front of every unsuspecting man and woman in the United States. Martha Burk is the president of something called the National Council of Woman?s Organizations (NCWO). There are many member organizations of the NCWO that restrict membership to women only. That seems to be OK with Martha Burk. What isn?t OK with Martha Burk is Augusta National Golf Club not having any women members. Never mind that Augusta National is a private organization -- tax-paying private organization. If Martha Burk decides that Augusta National ought to have a woman member, then by God they need to get a woman member.

For a few months Martha Burk was glomming some pretty strong publicity for her cause. That was then. This is now. There?s a war going on. People are concerned with far more than whether or not a private golf club in Georgia with a membership of about 300 has a woman among those numbers.

So .. Martha Burk, publicity hound, becomes Martha Burk, opportunist. Did I say that there was a war going on? Why yes! I did! And Martha Burk has decided that since this war is the number one news story out there today, she will use that war to try to restart her personal quest to become America?s prime feminist voice.

So, how would an opportunist take advantage of the war against Saddam Hussein to further her own end? It was rather simple, really. Martha Burk just abandoned principles, as the definition said, and marched herself to the news mecca of New York to convene with some members of the New York City Council. There Ms. Burk announced that it was just appalling that women who were fighting in Iraq would face discrimination at Augusta National. She takes a shot at CBS saying ?Broadcasting the Masters now and showcasing a club that discriminates against women is an insult to the nearly quarter million women in the U.S. armed forces.?

Wow! Pretty nifty, don?t you think! Since the war is taking all of the attention away from Ms. Burks petty and ridiculous little crusade, why not try to tie in with the men and women fighting in Iraq? Women in combat! Women as prisoners of war! Let?s exploit them to crank up the Burk publicity machine again! They won?t mind!

Martha Burk has become a desperate and unprincipled opportunist because she senses that people have just lost interest in her private cause. She recently made a visit to Atlanta, Georgia where she held a private meeting with Atlanta?s Mayor, Shirley Franklin. Only one reporter from the Atlanta Journal-Constitution was allowed to cover that meeting. Burk is depending on Atlanta?s feminist community to help her save face in Augusta. It seems that she hasn?t been all that successful in rounding up bodies to put on the protest lines in Augusta. Her plan is to use Atlanta?s Mayor to fill a few busses with protestors for the two-hour drive to Augusta. It remains to be seen whether or not Franklin will allow her office to be exploited, or if she will support Martha the Opportunist in this matter.

Martha?s next grand move? She?s reported to be looking for a way to exploit women suffering from breast cancer in her personal crusade against Augusta National.