collusion?

[MadJack]

what do you think about this hand?


Table '15554009 4' Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: dex33ter (2710 in chips)
Seat 3: caywags (1700 in chips)
Seat 4: Petresa (3060 in chips)
Seat 6: BOUZA78 (5455 in chips)
Seat 7: Jenau (3380 in chips)
Seat 8: cdragon52 (2310 in chips)
Seat 9: dafocks33 (1795 in chips)
Petresa: posts small blind 25
BOUZA78: posts big blind 50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Jenau [Ac Qd]
Jenau: calls 50
cdragon52: folds
dafocks33: folds
dex33ter: folds
caywags: raises 100 to 150
Petresa: folds
BOUZA78: calls 100
Jenau: calls 100
*** FLOP *** [2d 6d 2h]
BOUZA78: checks
Jenau: bets 150
caywags: calls 150
BOUZA78: calls 150
*** TURN *** [2d 6d 2h] [9d]
BOUZA78: checks
Jenau: checks
caywags: checks
*** RIVER *** [2d 6d 2h 9d] [As]
BOUZA78: bets 1300
Jenau: folds
caywags: raises 100 to 1400 and is all-in
BOUZA78: folds
caywags collected 3525 from pot
caywags: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3525 | Rake 0
Board [2d 6d 2h 9d As]
Seat 1: dex33ter folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: caywags (button) collected (3525)
Seat 4: Petresa (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: BOUZA78 (big blind) folded on the River
Seat 7: Jenau folded on the River
Seat 8: cdragon52 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: dafocks33 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

 

[bjfinste]

Either that or a badly-timed mishit of the fold button. Makes no sense at all.

 

[Penguinfan]

Thats definatly one for support to take a look at.

Fold for another 100? Nah.

 

[Penguinfan]

I would tell support you want to see the hole cards, they will tell you in a case like this.

 

[SixFive]

collusion or a mistake hitting a button. Can't be explained any other way. Was there much table conversation after this?

 

[MadJack]

collusion or a mistake hitting a button. Can't be explained any other way. Was there much table conversation after this?

i asked why he didn't call an all in for 1400 when he bet 1300 and he didn't answer. i asked them if they were colluding and neither would answer. i demanded an explanation and neither would answer. the only other person to chime in said "maybe he didn't have anything"

i emailed support and this was their quick (generic) reply.

Hello Jack,

Thank you for your report. The integrity of our games is of utmost
importance to us, and when confronted with such suspicions, we have one
of our poker specialists undertake extensive research into the players'
relationships and past play.

I have forwarded your message to a poker specialist for review. Please
allow us some time to research this matter; it may take several days if
the matter is particularly complex. We will be back to you as soon as
possible with the results of our examination.

Regards,

Vielka
PokerStars Support Team

 

[MadJack]

if he made a mistake hitting a button, i would think he would have said so. know what i mean?

neither guy said a word the whole game.

maybe they're both bots? been reading some scary shit about bots lately.

 

[BleedDodgerBlue]

could be collusion, could not be


were you playing a tourney??? than most likely not.

the guy made a move on the river. you got out, and the other guy had something. the guy who made the move had complete air, and wasn't even worth the 100 more if he had 4-5 or some dumb gutter straight from the big blind. plus others can see what he had in hh.

could be collusion, could not be. on a side note, not sure why you didn't bet the turn. if you get raised you can insta muck, if not it clears over chasers out. i like that line better, but who the f am i......

gl, hope you didnt' get cheated. it happens a lot and i've talked to you about the teams operating before, but imo in this case, it doesn't seem like it.

 

[MadJack]

on a side note, not sure why you didn't bet the turn.

don't know. i guess because of the 2 quick calls on the flop. you're right, i definitely should have led out with about $300 on the turn.

after watching them more closely after that hand, i decided they are both too stupid to have been cheating. total idiots that should not be playing poker at all.

 

[MadJack]

so i'm the one who gets scolded

so i'm the one who gets scolded



Hello Jack,

Thank you once again for your email; although we do monitor the games for
strange play, vigilant players such as yourself are a great help in
keeping our games free of collusion.

I have completed my review of Tournament #15554009 and the accounts
of 'caywags' and 'BOUZA78'. I found no signs of any relationship between
them. They are from different States as verified by their IP. They have
never shared or logged on from the same computer.

This was the only tournament that they have ever played together. I
reviewed all hands of this tournament with cards face up. While cheats may
be able to hide what they are doing from other players, when the cards are
turned face up (as in our review), there is little they can do without
raising red flags. In tournament play, we look for a variety of collusive
activities, including:

1) Best hand play, where the "team" only plays the better of their two
hands
2) Softplay, where the "team" does not bet against each other
3) Chip dumping, where the larger stacked player dumps off chips to the
lower stacked player to help him survive

I went through the tournament you questioned, and no hands gave me reason
to suspect collusion. In the hand you sent, the player made a bad bluff
with too many chips and really could not call. Otherwise, they played each
other hard, betting a better hand to the other, regardless of stack size.
They did not participate in stack balancing.

I simply did not see any signs of collusion. As a safeguard, however, I
have put a note in both of their files, and further complaints will result
in another investigation.

I would be remiss, however, if I did not bring up the matter of your own
chat; accusing the players directly at the table can have no beneficial
result for one or more of 3 bad things will always happen:

1) In an environment where there is already concerns about cheating in
different forms, making such comments only serves to propagate existing
fears. Our support staff work extremely hard investigating collusion
complaints and dealing with the integrity of our site. A lot of that work
is undone by comments of this nature.

2) You alert the cheats that their play has been observed allowing for
them to concoct cover up hands to disguise their actions. Whenever you
make an accusation at the table we might as well not review any further
hands in that session as they no longer contain useful information.

3) If the players are innocent, which in the vast majority of cases they
are, you have wrongfully accused two innocent players of the worst crime
in Poker.

In the future, if you see something suspicious, please write an email to
support@pokerstars.com detailing the player names and any suspicious hand
numbers observed.

As you can see, we have a lot of tools at our disposal which help us keep
our games honest and fair. In addition, the thousands of honest, vigilant
players who point out situations that merit investigation are an important
part of our arsenal. Thank you for doing your part to protect the
integrity of our games.


Regards,

Thomas
PokerStars Support Team

 

[MadJack]

btw, the guy who folded the bluff hand won the tourney.

all it was, was a 1000 buyin FPP to the final qualifier on sunday for the WPT's bahamas tourney. 5 of us won seats but i took the 10,000 FPP's and will play some other time.

I WILL win a seat for that trip!!

 

[kneifl]

You gotta be kidding me right. After you alerted them to the situation? What a bunch of assholes for jumping all over you about what you thought might be foul play.

kneifl

 

[Sun Tzu]

I like poker as much as the next guy, but I have refused to play on-line. People can tell me to the contrary until I am blue in the face, I will simply never be ablke to fully buy into the idea that something like that is legit.