Creationis-- errr, Intelligent Design

[Nick Douglas]

A hearty congratulations to the judge in Pennsylvania who ruled against including religious propaganda (i.e., doubts on Evolution and the promotion of Intelligent Design) in science class. Of course O'Reilly had a segment last night decrying this guy as an activist judge. Par for the course from the right. While he prattles on about a non-existent "War on Christmas" (joined by book hawker John Gibson), the real cultural war going on is being laughed by conservatives against any scientific theory that might possible compromise certain religious beliefs.

I believe in God (thanks in part to ironlock, but that's another story), but it is a bad idea to infuse religion into science. Science is based on the study of tangible facts. There are no tanglible facts behind intelligent design, but there are plenty behind evolution. I wish people would learn to separate the two a bit and not get so offended when fact-based scientific theory starts to intrude upon religious beliefs. If scientific theory contradicts what you believe, then it is your right to disbelieve the science. But don't try to interject ideas with no basis in fact into a scientific discussion.

I hope that this ruling starts a trend, but I fear it won't. Here's for leaving the discussion of intelligent design where it belongs: in theology class.

 

[dr. freeze]

A hearty congratulations to the judge in Pennsylvania who ruled against including religious propaganda (i.e., doubts on Evolution and the promotion of Intelligent Design) in science class. Of course O'Reilly had a segment last night decrying this guy as an activist judge. Par for the course from the right. While he prattles on about a non-existent "War on Christmas" (joined by book hawker John Gibson), the real cultural war going on is being laughed by conservatives against any scientific theory that might possible compromise certain religious beliefs.

I believe in God (thanks in part to ironlock, but that's another story), but it is a bad idea to infuse religion into science. Science is based on the study of tangible facts. There are no tanglible facts behind intelligent design, but there are plenty behind evolution. I wish people would learn to separate the two a bit and not get so offended when fact-based scientific theory starts to intrude upon religious beliefs. If scientific theory contradicts what you believe, then it is your right to disbelieve the science. But don't try to interject ideas with no basis in fact into a scientific discussion.

I hope that this ruling starts a trend, but I fear it won't. Here's for leaving the discussion of intelligent design where it belongs: in theology class.

wholeheartedly disagree

a scientific theory may or may not involve a Creator

either belief system is predicated on whether you

1. Believe in a Creator
2. Do not believe in a Creator

Science branches from there on out and most natural things can be somewhat reasonably explained using either theory...or a combination thereof and NO science seeks to exclude a possibility without PROVING it

Neither theory is "true" science because neither can be tested and reproduced in a lab; so any way you look at it, you are teaching a belief system which goes back to that one single question

No religion is necessarily taught, only the hypothesis that there must be a Creator behind the "madness"

The most basic question in science -- "where did all matter/energy come from" -- fundamentally begs an answer to this question and the two responses are pondered -- 1..something outside the system (which can be easily thought out with reason) or 2. nothing (which cannot be explained -- with the condition that it can not NOW be explained BUT, however DOES violate the scientific LAWS as we now know them AND which are reproducible/verifiable in a lab)

So actually, this judge was IMPOSING his belief system on us which is fundamentally unConstitutional. This issue has NO place in the courts and NO judge should rule on one side or the other. No judge should rule that either evolution or creation should be banned. However, it is reasonable that a judge could rule both to be allowed and that a local school board could make such a decision about the curriculum.

Who exactly does one black-robed lawyer think he is to dictate this policy to us all?

 

[LUX]

Ironically, the 11th Cir recently overturned Judge Cooper's decision to remove the stickers from the face of the Science textbooks in Cobb County, GA. (just outside of Atlanta)

I suppose the difference is that the Cobb County sticker just pointed out that the "Theory" of Evolution is just that - a "theory", and should be examined with an open mind and scientific judgment...no counter "theory" (such as Creation Science) was also proposed to be taught.

I still do not understand the concept of studying evolution, and the evidence supporting it, and also learning, at home, that "God works in mysterious ways" and that the creation story can be allegorical...like so many OTHER things in the Bible. Hell - Genesis contains 2 totally different and contradictory version of creation - if it is the ineffable word of God - which is the correct version?

Until rabid fundamentalists can answer that one, they should either homeschool their kids, put them in a crackpot "private school", or shut their pieholes.

 

[ferdville]

Nick - I find myself in agreement with you on this one.

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

Makes 2 of us Ferd--
Things have went pretty well for decades with evolution being taught in science and religion being taught in church.
Think Nick summed it up pretty well---

---" Here's for leaving the discussion of intelligent design where it belongs: in theology class"

 

[dawgball]

I think religion should stay out of the classroom (except private schools), but I also feel that evolution should not be taught as a religion either. I feel that once you step away from the actual science of evolution (fish in Mammoth Cave having no eyes now; opposable thumbs; etc.), then you are dancing very dangerously on the line of it becoming a religion.

It's a very touchy subject because controlling each individual science teacher would be a heavy burden.

But, overall, I agree with both Nick and Freeze. Keep both "theories" of religion out of the classroom and keep the science in.

 

[Nosigar]

Of course O'Reilly had a segment last night decrying this guy as an activist judge. Par for the course from the right. While he prattles on about a non-existent "War on Christmas" (joined by book hawker John Gibson), the real cultural war going on is being laughed by conservatives against any scientific theory that might possible compromise certain religious beliefs.

Is that what you really think? There's no war against christian beliefs? i have seen it over 10 years in different parts of the word and they always uses the same scheme. Divide and conquer. Man, I have spoken to several leftists over the years (I'm talking hard core Maoist-commies or whatever they bel;ieve at the time) who have kinda had a change of heart and they acknowledge this war on christianity as long going and permeating all the levels where leftists manage to hook up in. So I'm not even doubting the left's agenda. Be advised that the ridiculization of christianity and western culture in general is top priority.
Actually you could surmise from that that the effects of this offensive on western values is precisely what makes most "liberal-lite's" today have the beliefs they currently have.

As for the Intelligent Design, I see nowhere that it forces a religious view onto any one. It simply states that there is a view that a Creator (alien, God, "a spark that lit that fire") could be an explanation for life. AS well as is a belief shared by BILLIONS of people on the planet of different religious persuasions. Do we now wnat to hide from our children the beliefs of the majority of the world? Does it not make them wiser to know what the world thinks?

And the reason that the ruling is bad is because intelligent design does not "Create a State Religion" nor does it discriminate against any particular knon religion.
I believe it best for the children to know at least what the vast majority of the world believes as opposed to censuring that idea from them.

 

[gardenweasel]

could care less about evolution or creationism.....

it is very obvious,though,that groups like the aclu are attempting to secularize this country...ala europe.....

religion?....doesn`t honestly matter much to me...

but,the secularists for example,in many cases seem to be consistently backing the erosion of moral standards and values...

they don`t belive in traditional values...

they believe in the values that are commonly accepted by the society in which they live, and they believe that everything is subject to change.. therefore, there are no enduring or permanent values......

this i don`t agree with....


btw...speaking of the aclu...

it apparantly isn’t enough for the aclu that the ny times leaked classified information that we are spying on international phone calls of suspected terrorist.....they now want all details released....whether they are just plain stupid, or actually want the enemy to defeat us, the document fails to say.....lol

THE ACLU SAYS...

""The requests submitted today seek all records about “the policies, procedures and/or practices of the National Security Agency for gathering information through warrantless electronic surveillance and/or warrantless physical searches in the United States …”…. Information received by the organization will be made public on its Web site.""........

that`s just dandy...


the generosity of the aclu to the deadly enemies of the u.s. is mind boggling... the only possible explanation for wanting to expose “all records about the policies, procedures and/or practices of the n.s.a". with regards to the intercept program is that the aclu wishes to make it harder for the government to thwart a terrorist attack....

this isn`t about the 4th amendment...the purpose is to sabotage the program....when al qaeda knows all about the program,it makes it much easier to to develop communications stratiegies to defeat our attempts too surveil them...

you don`t like warrantless surveillance?...fine...but,be responsible...

they haven`t asked for a list of the americans targeted....i wonder why?

because they don`t care...their interest is in shutting down the program by revealing it`s operational secrets....

they are anti-american,imo...

 

[kosar]

The groups like ACLU and PETA are total f'ing jokes.

Also, like GW, I could care less about evolution and creationism.

It is what it is and nobody in the history of man will ever know. So whatever. Arguing about Religion itself is insane.

I do understand the debate about what is taught in schools. I have no opinion on that either.

I hope this post changed hearts and minds.

 

[AU2001]

There are no tanglible facts behind intelligent design, but there are plenty behind evolution.

What are the tangible facts behind evolution?

 

[Nosigar]

The groups like ACLU and PETA are total f'ing jokes.

Also, like GW, I could care less about evolution and creationism.

It is what it is and nobody in the history of man will ever know. So whatever. Arguing about Religion itself is insane.

I do understand the debate about what is taught in schools. I have no opinion on that either.

I hope this post changed hearts and minds.

This isn't about the PETA and ACLU whacko's, Let's not demean it. It's about judges deciding what a school or parents can decide to teach their children with the money most of them pay to support the damn schools to begin with.
The worse case is to negate a teaching of something that billions of folks believe. Be it wrong or right, I believe that definitely it is an advantage for kids to know that this theory exists and that the majority believe it to be that way.
We can teach them, that 2% of people are wierd and strange and therefore elect homosexuality and those teachings are defended by law, but something that billions of people do and believe cannot be taught, at least to have the kids be able to have a comprehensive discussion about it during their everyday lives?

Sure, it really ain't shit, but battles are either fought or lost. To hell with the religious or atheits' motives, let my kid learn what the world believes so he can better adapt.

 

[kosar]

Sigar,

My ACLU and PETA comments were in response to GW's inclusion of the ACLU response to the NSA situation. (I threw in PETA for good measure)

As stated above, I have little or no opinion on the subject of Evolution/Creationism/Intelligent design.

 

[ferdville]

Teaching "Intelligent Design" in a science class is like teaching astrology in an astronomy class.

 

[djv]

Do you think we will ever really find out how we got here?

 

[dr. freeze]

Teaching "Intelligent Design" in a science class is like teaching astrology in an astronomy class.

teaching evolution in a science class is like teaching us that a bomb blowing up a junkyard would make an airplane

 

[MrChristo]

teaching evolution in a science class is like teaching us that a bomb blowing up a junkyard would make an airplane

How I feel for the poor souls who, with deteriorating health, turn to the good Dr. Freeze...

..."Sorry. All these medicines, technology and scientific theories are rubbish. God says it's your time to go." :sadwave:

We can see evolution occuring...with different species subtly changing over time as they adapt to ever-changing environs.

You want a human example? Wisdom teeth.
They were originally part of the humans complete set of teeth...Extra molars to gnaw and break down the tough, high protein (ie. meat) diet of early humans.
Now, after centuries of a) a diet higher in plant material, and b) more cooked meat (so not as tough) the human jaw has shrunk, so the 'wisdom teeth' (3rd molars) can't fit in, and generally need to be removed.
I'm willing to guess that in another 500-1000 years those teeth won't even bother growing.

Another one? The appendix. Reminant of a much larger, more robust digestive system, for the very same reason.

Or did God just leave a little appendage there with no real purpose, which only increases the chance of infection and death?
Does seem like a very Intellegent Design to me!

We can teach them, that 2% of people are wierd and strange and therefore elect homosexuality

Yes, most people choose homosexuality because they are weird and strange.
Can someone please close the barn door....

 

[PRO190]

A hearty congratulations to the judge in Pennsylvania who ruled against including religious propaganda (i.e., doubts on Evolution and the promotion of Intelligent Design) in science class. Science has not Proven anything , they should PRESENT all reasonable alternatives as viable options Of course O'Reilly had a segment last night decrying this guy as an activist judge. Par for the course from the right. While he prattles on about a non-existent "War on Christmas" For GOD SAKE ND

In Illinois, state government workers were forbidden from saying the words ?Merry Christmas? while at work
? In Rhode Island, local officials banned Christians from participating in a public project to decorate the lawn of City Hall
? A New Jersey school banned even instrumental versions of traditional Christmas carols
? Arizona school officials ruled it unconstitutional for a student to make any reference to the religious history of Christmas in a class project(joined by book hawker John Gibson), the real cultural war going on is being laughed by conservatives against any scientific theory that might possible compromise certain religious beliefs.

I believe in God (thanks in part to ironlock, but that's another story), but it is a bad idea to infuse religion into science. Science is based on the study of tangible facts. There are no tanglible facts behind intelligent design, but there are plenty behind evolution.
[PLEASE ENTER" PLENTY"of THESE TANGIBLE FACTS HERE TO PROVE YOUR STATEMENT For GOD SAKE Nick D
I wish people would learn to separate the twFor GOD SAKE ND


I hope that this ruling starts a trend, but I fear it won't. Here's for leaving the discussion of intelligent design where it belongs: in theology class.

OK NICK, I sure hope you never teach my child......

 

[dr. freeze]

You want a human example? Wisdom teeth.
They were originally part of the humans complete set of teeth...Extra molars to gnaw and break down the tough, high protein (ie. meat) diet of early humans.
Now, after centuries of a) a diet higher in plant material, and b) more cooked meat (so not as tough) the human jaw has shrunk, so the 'wisdom teeth' (3rd molars) can't fit in, and generally need to be removed.
I'm willing to guess that in another 500-1000 years those teeth won't even bother growing.

Another one? The appendix. Reminant of a much larger, more robust digestive system, for the very same reason.

Or did God just leave a little appendage there with no real purpose, which only increases the chance of infection and death?
Does seem like a very Intellegent Design to me!

wow, these are great examples (actually they are not -- but thats beside the point)

surely, they can explain how a cow turned into a whale (or is it vice versa)

unfortunately, minions like you can take small changes and use them to explain away junkyards blowing up and making airplanes

then you have the arrogance to act like no intelligent person would ever be found disputing this "rubbish"

frankly its absurd to consider this theory of "macro"evolution as it has never been observed and its all based on ridiculous inferences

using your deduction, we would find Dr. Christo telling the patient "Sir, I know you need help, take this piece of bread crumb and it will evolve into a potent antibiotic"

 

[Palehose]

The groups like ACLU and PETA are total f'ing jokes.

Also, like GW, I could care less about evolution and creationism.

It is what it is and nobody in the history of man will ever know. So whatever. Arguing about Religion itself is insane.

I do understand the debate about what is taught in schools. I have no opinion on that either.

I hope this post changed hearts and minds.

:mj07: :mj07: Yet every vote you cast makes the ACLU and PETA stronger !!! :mj07: :mj07:

Spin your wheels much ???? :s4:

 

[Palehose]

A hearty congratulations to the judge in Pennsylvania who ruled against including religious propaganda (i.e., doubts on Evolution and the promotion of Intelligent Design) in science class. Of course O'Reilly had a segment last night decrying this guy as an activist judge. Par for the course from the right. While he prattles on about a non-existent "War on Christmas" (joined by book hawker John Gibson), the real cultural war going on is being laughed by conservatives against any scientific theory that might possible compromise certain religious beliefs.

I believe in God (thanks in part to ironlock, but that's another story), but it is a bad idea to infuse religion into science. Science is based on the study of tangible facts. There are no tanglible facts behind intelligent design, but there are plenty behind evolution. I wish people would learn to separate the two a bit and not get so offended when fact-based scientific theory starts to intrude upon religious beliefs. If scientific theory contradicts what you believe, then it is your right to disbelieve the science. But don't try to interject ideas with no basis in fact into a scientific discussion.

I hope that this ruling starts a trend, but I fear it won't. Here's for leaving the discussion of intelligent design where it belongs: in theology class.

I am not sure where I stand on this yet being that I am not a very religious person . What I have observed though is the attack on religion Christians in particular by the left seems to definately have created a country with less morals and to some extent one less willing to pick themselves up . Do keep in mind though you talk as If Evolution has all this factual evidence behind it, yet you seem to not bring to light "Aurora" the new specimen that has compleately changed everything they belived to be fact for the last 50 years about evolution. The main point I want you to see here is that Science interjects idea's with no basis in fact into their theory's and discussion constantly and than changes its mind many years later . The earth is flat remember :mj07: