kosar said:
You mean when you try to vote Dimpled Chad boy :mj07: you probably have a 50 /50 chance of understanding :s4:
Creationis-- errr, Intelligent Design
- Thread starter Nick Douglas
- Start date
You mean when you try to vote Dimpled Chad boy :mj07: you probably have a 50 /50 chance of understanding :s4:
Palehose said:
I assume that your incessant 'dimpled chad' comments are in reference to me living in Florida? Good one.
smurphy said:Well, in the case of Palehose's penis - I reckon God did.
Hey that penis created 3 wonderfull children each of which are 10 time smarter than you can hope to be . Like I said quit beating off so much and learn how to use that thing right .....No that dosent mean sticking it up your boyfriends poop shoot moron :scared
Nick Douglas said:
Why does this link refer to it as the modern "theory" of evolution if it is a proveable fact? Here are a few examples taken from your link:
The modern theory of evolution is based on the concept of natural selection.
Because of its potential implications for the origins of humankind, the theory of evolution has been at the center of many social and religious controversies since it was first introduced.
Just curious as to why they would call it a theory if it's so easy to prove with facts?
dr. freeze said:
Arrogance??
Let me get this straight....the Creator (who-ever he/she might be) created an entire (many?!) universes, with as close to infinite planets as imaginable...then thought, "hmmm. I like this one! I think I'll put Man here and it shall be my finest moment!"
That (to me at least!) is the definition of the height of arrogance!!!
Not to mention a pretty big contradiction....Given that the world is in such a finely (perfectly even!) balanced state (which, I believe is that core of "your" argument), yet I'll then throw in Mankind who will systematically go about plundering my perfect planet!! Killing off entire species, downing more trees than they replace, draining away all reserves of my precious fossil fuel!!
Oh, and bugger it...Just for pure amusement, I'll have it so that less than a quarter of Mankind actually believe in me, so they can argue and fight for enternity!! (Alright, that was a bit off track :mj07: )
And God created Man in His own image....Funny then that He has sat around and watched us go through various changes, no matter how small
No Farmer Freeze. Strangely enough, something that takes millions and millions of years has never been 'observed'!!...But I don't understand how then you can say that 'micro' changes are taking place...but that's it! The small changes we do observe are occuring for a reason....I would have thought it would have been absolutely FAR from absurd to imply that a series of 'micro' changes become a 'macro' change billions of years down the track. (In fact, some might say it's even quite logical.)
Take a lake full of yellow paint. Each day mix in a single drop of blue paint for a billion years...What's going to happen?...
...One day you're going to look at that lake and go, "Well, I'll be ****ed! My yellow lake is green!!", and you won't have even noticed it happening. (And no, no-one else would have 'observed' it either
)And, um, no. You see this might come as a surprise, but bread is not capable of reproducing!!
It's not going to evolve into anything
[I've always wondered about you being a doctor, but at least now we know you're not a baker!](although, of course, it will quite quickly be consumed by a fungus which could well produce penicillin, but I digress! :mj07: )
nosigar said:
er, I can only assume that you are insinuating that schools are actually teaching 2% of their students to be homosexual?? (sorry, sorry....a fag!)
Only a few % of the population believe in homosexuality (oh, my bad...donut-punching)?
Only a small % of people are homosexual (ah, crack-snackers) of course, but how that relates to being taught in schools??....
Anyway, since you started playing semantics, less than 2% of the population are;
Pilots. (weirdo's)
Pro athletes. (Strange, strange people)
Americans! (actually, it's about 4%, but who's counting?)
Have IQ's of >132 (unfortunate sods).....(of course I could go on)....
...Pretty sure the school system teaches (encourages?) all of those things as well. :mj14:
Palehose said:
Now, I've got a real problem with this, smurphy.
You've always come across (to me at least!) as quite an intelligent, quick witted fellow...
...But if what Palehose says is true, then it's pretty obvious that your helper monkey is typing most of your posts here.
So, if you wouldn't mind getting your ma, pa, step-sister, her nephew, your wife, your ex-wife and anyone else you have living in the trailor with you, to hold Mojo back for a few seconds so that you could type a thought or two for us, we'll see how the two of you compare.
Thanks bud! :mj14: :mj07:
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Evolution happened (and continues to happen). That said, there is a lot that the scientific community does not know. Another way of saying the same thing is that there is a lot of theory about Evolution out there that can't be proven, yet.
The problem I have is casting doubt on the entire concept of Evolution for religious purposes. If people don't want to believe that Evolution happened (or that dinosaurs existed, or that water is comprised of two parts Hydrogen and one part Oxygen), they don't have to. But if you want the disbelief of these ideas to be treated as science, then you have to offer up a fact-based, legitimate, alternate scientific theory.
The problem I have is casting doubt on the entire concept of Evolution for religious purposes. If people don't want to believe that Evolution happened (or that dinosaurs existed, or that water is comprised of two parts Hydrogen and one part Oxygen), they don't have to. But if you want the disbelief of these ideas to be treated as science, then you have to offer up a fact-based, legitimate, alternate scientific theory.
All smart-arse comments aside...
...I just watched a doco on National Geographic called "Evolution". (At least I think that's whatit was called)...made in 2001.
It's about this very topic, schools debating whether to include Creationism to be taught.
Was pretty good I thought. Interesting.
...I just watched a doco on National Geographic called "Evolution". (At least I think that's whatit was called)...made in 2001.
It's about this very topic, schools debating whether to include Creationism to be taught.
Was pretty good I thought. Interesting.
Aristotle who died 300 years before Christ concluded that the physical universe points directly toward an unmoved firs mover. He wrote since everything in motion must be moved by something so there must me a first mover. henceforth Intelligent design before Christianity. Darwinism makes claims that science cannot prove. Like matter evolved from non- matter , life evolved from non-life?? So that through natural selection matter evolved into life and apes into humans?? Im still waitng for those who worship at the alter of Darwinism to create matter out of non-matter or life out of non-life. Or extract from fossils the"missing links between species" Darwinsim must be taken on faith since it is unproven. A secular humanist or an athiest might find it comforting as a rationalization for rejecting God. You can believe the dogmas of darwinism but theyb cannot stand the burden of proof. Science says "no miracles allowed" Darwinism expects us to beleve in them however. If believing your ancestors are monkeys works for you wonderful.
Well, it must be true if a guy who died 300 BC was saying it....after all, for the next 1500 years or so people thought the Earth was flat and that we are the centre of the universe (which a lot of Christians still believe obviously).
Either way, he said since everything in motion must be moved by something so there must me a first mover ... he doesn't say anything about the 'first mover' being a "person" (devine entinty)...why can't the 'first mover' be the Big Bang?
Would it not make more sense that if 'God' created the Earth and man and everything else, wouldn't it all be stationary?
If this planet is SUCH the jewel in His crown as a creator, why wouldn't he make it the centre of the universe and have everything revolve around us??
I know I would!
Or extract from fossils the"missing links between species"
There's plenty of fossil evidence....skulls and bones from early humans, clearly becoming more and more 'human' (as we know it) over time.
There's 1000's of examples of fossils of the same species changing over time.
If believing your ancestors are monkeys works for you wonderful.
If believing your great, great.....-> great grandfather lived until he was 600, had 600 kids who presumably sporned the human race by incestual means, then that's wonderful for you too!
Either way, he said since everything in motion must be moved by something so there must me a first mover ... he doesn't say anything about the 'first mover' being a "person" (devine entinty)...why can't the 'first mover' be the Big Bang?
Would it not make more sense that if 'God' created the Earth and man and everything else, wouldn't it all be stationary?
If this planet is SUCH the jewel in His crown as a creator, why wouldn't he make it the centre of the universe and have everything revolve around us??
I know I would!
Or extract from fossils the"missing links between species"
There's plenty of fossil evidence....skulls and bones from early humans, clearly becoming more and more 'human' (as we know it) over time.
There's 1000's of examples of fossils of the same species changing over time.
If believing your ancestors are monkeys works for you wonderful.
If believing your great, great.....-> great grandfather lived until he was 600, had 600 kids who presumably sporned the human race by incestual means, then that's wonderful for you too!
The monkeys uncle works for you obviously ! What set the bigi bang in motion , a couple of you uncle apes banging each other and having a human offspring?
We'll never know what set the big bang off, greg, will we. One of lifes many great mysteries.
What I don't get from you Creationalist's, is that you all seem to be missing the 'obvious' point to argue...
Evolution has and continues to happen, to me that's a given, and there's plenty of evidence to suggest it...
...obviously the contentious 'sticking' point is how/why it all began. If you were to say to me that God created the big bang and it all went from there...or even that God put the building blocks in place on Earth and it all went from there, then I couldn't argue.
Beacuse a) We're quite obviously never going to know, and b) yes, God clicking his fingers to create the universe is every bit as possible/plausable as a universe full of matter that appeared from 'nowhere'.
But you don't.
You seem to get stuck on the literal sense of Adam and Eve...or seem to think that a couple of apes "bang each other to produce human offspring"
Like Freeze with his 'bomb blast making a plane' analogy...you guys seem to think that it all happens over night!!
Sorry, but it hasn't, and it still doesn't.
As Nick eluded to, dinosaurs, fossils, carbon dating are all based in real science and can't just be explained away by saying, God put us here x-millions (thousands?) of years ago, so here we are!
(btw, how long did it take you to come up with the 'monkeys uncle' gag?...So very witty)
What I don't get from you Creationalist's, is that you all seem to be missing the 'obvious' point to argue...
Evolution has and continues to happen, to me that's a given, and there's plenty of evidence to suggest it...
...obviously the contentious 'sticking' point is how/why it all began. If you were to say to me that God created the big bang and it all went from there...or even that God put the building blocks in place on Earth and it all went from there, then I couldn't argue.
Beacuse a) We're quite obviously never going to know, and b) yes, God clicking his fingers to create the universe is every bit as possible/plausable as a universe full of matter that appeared from 'nowhere'.
But you don't.
You seem to get stuck on the literal sense of Adam and Eve...or seem to think that a couple of apes "bang each other to produce human offspring"
Like Freeze with his 'bomb blast making a plane' analogy...you guys seem to think that it all happens over night!!
Sorry, but it hasn't, and it still doesn't.
As Nick eluded to, dinosaurs, fossils, carbon dating are all based in real science and can't just be explained away by saying, God put us here x-millions (thousands?) of years ago, so here we are!
(btw, how long did it take you to come up with the 'monkeys uncle' gag?...So very witty
)freeze's bomb blast analogy refers to entropy and how evolution completely defies Newton's law concerning this
not sure what else you are referring to
not sure what else you are referring to
Partial Ingredients For DNA And Protein Found, around star
Partial Ingredients For DNA And Protein Found, around star
Source: National Aeronautics And Space Administration
Date: 2005-12-30
story
Partial Ingredients For DNA And Protein Found Around Star
NASA's Spitzer Space Telescope has discovered some of life's most basic ingredients in the dust swirling around a young star. The ingredients - gaseous precursors to DNA and protein - were detected in the star's terrestrial planet zone, a region where rocky planets such as Earth are thought to be born.
The findings represent the first time that these gases, called acetylene and hydrogen cyanide, have been found in a terrestrial planet zone outside of our own.
"This infant system might look a lot like ours did billions of years ago, before life arose on Earth," said Fred Lahuis of Leiden Observatory in the Netherlands and the Dutch space research institute called SRON. Lahuis is lead author of a paper to be published in the Jan. 10 issue of the Astrophysical Journal Letters.
Lahuis and his colleagues spotted the organic, or carbon-containing, gases around a star called IRS 46. The star is in the Ophiuchus (pronounced OFF-ee-YOO-kuss), or "snake carrier," constellation about 375 light-years from Earth. This constellation harbors a huge cloud of gas and dust in the process of a major stellar baby boom. Like most of the young stars here and elsewhere, IRS 46 is circled by a flat disk of spinning gas and dust that might ultimately clump together to form planets.
When the astronomers probed this star's disk with Spitzer's powerful infrared spectrometer instrument, they were surprised to find the molecular "barcodes" of large amounts of acetylene and hydrogen cyanide gases, as well as carbon dioxide gas. The team observed 100 similar young stars, but only one, IRS 46, showed unambiguous signs of the organic mix.
"The star's disk was oriented in just the right way to allow us to peer into it," said Lahuis.
The Spitzer data also revealed that the organic gases are hot. So hot, in fact, that they are most likely located near the star, about the same distance away as Earth is from our sun.
"The gases are very warm, close to or somewhat above the boiling point of water on Earth," said Dr. Adwin Boogert of the California Institute of Technology, Pasadena. "These high temperatures helped to pinpoint the location of the gases in the disk."
Organic gases such as those found around IRS 46 are found in our own solar system, in the atmospheres of the giant planets and Saturn's moon Titan, and on the icy surfaces of comets. They have also been seen around massive stars by the European Space Agency's Infrared Space Observatory, though these stars are thought to be less likely than sun-like stars to form life-bearing planets.
Here on Earth, the molecules are believed to have arrived billions of years ago, possibly via comets or comet dust that rained down from the sky. Acetylene and hydrogen cyanide link up together in the presence of water to form some of the chemical units of life's most essential compounds, DNA and protein. These chemical units are several of the 20 amino acids that make up protein and one of the four chemical bases that make up DNA.
"If you add hydrogen cyanide, acetylene and water together in a test tube and give them an appropriate surface on which to be concentrated and react, you'll get a slew of organic compounds including amino acids and a DNA purine base called adenine," said Dr. Geoffrey Blake of Caltech, a co-author of the paper. "And now, we can detect these same molecules in the planet zone of a star hundreds of light-years away."
Follow-up observations with the W.M. Keck Telescope atop Mauna Kea in Hawaii confirmed the Spitzer findings and suggested the presence of a wind emerging from the inner region of IRS 46's disk. This wind will blow away debris in the disk, clearing the way for the possible formation of Earth-like planets.
The Jet Propulsion Laboratory manages the Spitzer Space Telescope mission for NASA's Science Mission Directorate, Washington. Science operations are conducted at the Spitzer Science Center at Caltech. JPL is a division of Caltech. Spitzer's infrared spectrograph was built by Cornell University, Ithaca, N.Y. Its development was led by Dr. Jim Houck of Cornell.
For graphics and more information about Spitzer, visit http://www.spitzer.caltech.edu/spitzer . For more information about NASA and agency programs on the Web, visit http://www.nasa.gov/home/ .
Editor's Note: The original news release can be found here.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This story has been adapted from a news release issued by National Aeronautics And Space Administration.
Partial Ingredients For DNA And Protein Found, around star
Source: National Aeronautics And Space Administration
Date: 2005-12-30
story
Partial Ingredients For DNA And Protein Found Around Star
NASA's Spitzer Space Telescope has discovered some of life's most basic ingredients in the dust swirling around a young star. The ingredients - gaseous precursors to DNA and protein - were detected in the star's terrestrial planet zone, a region where rocky planets such as Earth are thought to be born.
The findings represent the first time that these gases, called acetylene and hydrogen cyanide, have been found in a terrestrial planet zone outside of our own.
"This infant system might look a lot like ours did billions of years ago, before life arose on Earth," said Fred Lahuis of Leiden Observatory in the Netherlands and the Dutch space research institute called SRON. Lahuis is lead author of a paper to be published in the Jan. 10 issue of the Astrophysical Journal Letters.
Lahuis and his colleagues spotted the organic, or carbon-containing, gases around a star called IRS 46. The star is in the Ophiuchus (pronounced OFF-ee-YOO-kuss), or "snake carrier," constellation about 375 light-years from Earth. This constellation harbors a huge cloud of gas and dust in the process of a major stellar baby boom. Like most of the young stars here and elsewhere, IRS 46 is circled by a flat disk of spinning gas and dust that might ultimately clump together to form planets.
When the astronomers probed this star's disk with Spitzer's powerful infrared spectrometer instrument, they were surprised to find the molecular "barcodes" of large amounts of acetylene and hydrogen cyanide gases, as well as carbon dioxide gas. The team observed 100 similar young stars, but only one, IRS 46, showed unambiguous signs of the organic mix.
"The star's disk was oriented in just the right way to allow us to peer into it," said Lahuis.
The Spitzer data also revealed that the organic gases are hot. So hot, in fact, that they are most likely located near the star, about the same distance away as Earth is from our sun.
"The gases are very warm, close to or somewhat above the boiling point of water on Earth," said Dr. Adwin Boogert of the California Institute of Technology, Pasadena. "These high temperatures helped to pinpoint the location of the gases in the disk."
Organic gases such as those found around IRS 46 are found in our own solar system, in the atmospheres of the giant planets and Saturn's moon Titan, and on the icy surfaces of comets. They have also been seen around massive stars by the European Space Agency's Infrared Space Observatory, though these stars are thought to be less likely than sun-like stars to form life-bearing planets.
Here on Earth, the molecules are believed to have arrived billions of years ago, possibly via comets or comet dust that rained down from the sky. Acetylene and hydrogen cyanide link up together in the presence of water to form some of the chemical units of life's most essential compounds, DNA and protein. These chemical units are several of the 20 amino acids that make up protein and one of the four chemical bases that make up DNA.
"If you add hydrogen cyanide, acetylene and water together in a test tube and give them an appropriate surface on which to be concentrated and react, you'll get a slew of organic compounds including amino acids and a DNA purine base called adenine," said Dr. Geoffrey Blake of Caltech, a co-author of the paper. "And now, we can detect these same molecules in the planet zone of a star hundreds of light-years away."
Follow-up observations with the W.M. Keck Telescope atop Mauna Kea in Hawaii confirmed the Spitzer findings and suggested the presence of a wind emerging from the inner region of IRS 46's disk. This wind will blow away debris in the disk, clearing the way for the possible formation of Earth-like planets.
The Jet Propulsion Laboratory manages the Spitzer Space Telescope mission for NASA's Science Mission Directorate, Washington. Science operations are conducted at the Spitzer Science Center at Caltech. JPL is a division of Caltech. Spitzer's infrared spectrograph was built by Cornell University, Ithaca, N.Y. Its development was led by Dr. Jim Houck of Cornell.
For graphics and more information about Spitzer, visit http://www.spitzer.caltech.edu/spitzer . For more information about NASA and agency programs on the Web, visit http://www.nasa.gov/home/ .
Editor's Note: The original news release can be found here.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This story has been adapted from a news release issued by National Aeronautics And Space Administration.
hmm, if a creator adds this and that, in these conditions, he can get something that might resemble something that might be used to form something else that might be used to form amino acids
great "science"
great "science"
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I always genuinely appreciate(other than Manson, I Love WR, Scrabble Spib and Palehose-but I digress) and am interested in anything anyone posts in this area, but man, isn't this like arguing about whether there's an afterlife? Both are utterly unprovable.
kosar said:
exactly
which is why the point of the thread -- that a black robed lawyer should dictate to us all what we should and should not be able to discuss in school -- is preposterous
dr. freeze said:
I dunno, man. Maybe none of it should be taught in school.(my solution..lol) There are few, if any, topics that I am less interested in or that seem less important to me.
Neither you or I have kids in any school system, but if I did, I honestly could care less regarding this subject. Teach all of it, teach none of it(preferable), who cares? It just simply doesn't matter.
It doesn't matter if a judge did this or that. I understand your point, that you want to inject religion in there, and I certainly could care less either way.
