Do you believe in luck, fate, God?

smurphy

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bjfinste said:
But no one will know until they're dead.
Yep. Regardless of your belief, it all involves faith. Atheists have faith that there is no God or afterlife in a very similar way that Religious followers have in believing in such things. Faith is required either way, because ultimately nothing is proven until you die.

Even if there is no God, there are still good things that come from belief in him/her. If such faith keeps some people from violence or adultery or slipping into addictions or other destructive things - then I'm happy for that religious belief.

On the other hand, when religious faith is used for murder, genocide, hate, racism, sexism, or general abuse of the planet - well, obviously that is wrong and disturbing.

Religion can expand or limit your potential. It's a crutch for some, a weapon for others, and an enlightener for many. I guess I have a love/hate realtionship with religion ....sorta like people in general.
 

ImFeklhr

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Science, realism, and a healthy dose of Catholic Guilt... that'll set you for life.

Be a good person cause it makes you feel good on the inside and makes you look happy on the outside... and just have a shot of bourbon any time you find yourself thinking about luck or fate too often.
 

Penguinfan

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Maybe that girl doctor at the butt checking place was right, I do drink too much on weekends, sigh.

For the most part I have to agree with Marine's point of view on the issue (does that make me gay?).

I stumble over to church with my wife about once a month when I start feeling bad that she goes and sits by herself and after an hour and a half of wanting to chew my arm off to get out of there I don't feel so bad she goes alone.

Last time I was there they showed some video clip of a family being interviewed about a "miricle" their child had recieved to be healed from some sort of life threatening disease, great story, very happy for them, but I still wanted to ask (and should have) what about the thousand kids in the same situation that died? Why don't we see a video about them? Don't they count as well?

Seem to me the church is no different than any other business in that respect, they show you the positives of the product but convienently leave out the failures.

God simply can't be God, at least not the God that is taught about in the church my wife attends, not as long as the things that happen in this world continue to happen.

I don't really care who you think causes the trouble in the world, when assholes are hurting good people while God stands by and watches he simply can't be God, now can he?
 

davidjg47

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I believe that in each one of us there is a soul. This soul was created by God. Therefore God knows what everyone does. When we pray our soul knows our prayer and answers it, or don't. When a player said God helped them win the super bowl or whatever, the "soul" made that person play way above their head.
Think about this, Whatever your mind feels and BELIEVES it will happen. I believe one's "soul" gives us insight to life and how to live it. Your soul is either good or bad. Think about it........
 

twofingers

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I believe in all three. They all come into play in our lives. problem is when one puts all their eggs in one basket.
 

neverteaseit

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this discussion could go on for years and still none of you can shed any proof that he does exist nor can i deny he doesn't. its all about what u believe. i for one do not believe in the bible. i think its propoganda and a fairy tale, nor do i believe in church. fleecing the sheep is all i see today, i for one find it hard to believe people actually give away their hard earned money for something they just simply thinks exist. i truly believe more criminals exist in the religous sector than anywhere. look around its not so hard to ignor. rape, sexual gratifications and theft. of course alot here will deny it. we are all sinful and corrupt i dont care what anyone says. of course we can repent ( cop out). yea i know, i will burn in hell. so will just about everyone else. ohhhhhhhh wait we can take a mulligan somewhere down the road can't we?
 

bear

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Interesting......... It is very easy to deny the existence....then one answers to noone......which is great...and easy!
We are filled here with "God blamers" ....mankind, certainly not following the word of God, through his own free will, causes his own problems.........Blame 'Satan" he has a lot of fertile ground to work with. ............Don't blame priests, ministers, rabbi's, etc. (they are just people, mostly good, but not always the best)
Last I heard ...THIS IS NOT HEAVEN we live with disease,war,earth altering weather, crime, vengeance,etc...and...._ _ _ _ will happen!!!
Your time here may be brief, may be enduring,may be filled with joy,riches,hunger,poverty?? much of which you will make happen........and through wealth or adversity we will make our way to the next level. Maybe something about that next level will be determined by how we did on this level..given our conditions. We do, however, have a roadmap for a successful journey.

bear
 
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bryanz

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P Fan, Interesting question but why ask and why close your self of to God or anything ? It sounds like you are searching for answers. I don't belong to a church or go very often but I believe in a higher power or God. Life is not random, you and I are responsible for a great part that is dealt to us. I believe that no person can truly be happy if they close themselves of to the possibilities of god, fate,karma or luck. What ever we chose to believe in, we still have to live THE RIGHT WAY, I BELIEVE IF I LIVE THE RIGHT WAY SO MUCH WILL COME BACK TO ME. Keep an open mind of the possibilities of everything. The way you started this subject,says that you are the type of person that may discount something that could be what you are looking for.
 
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djv

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Marine I understand that when we were young and get religion shoved in us everyday. By age 18 you just want a break. One thing for sure this religion stuff is one big money making machine.
Not sure that's what God wanted.
 

SixFive

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I believe in God and having a relationship with him. I do not believe in force feeding it to adults, so I don't talk about it much on here. I try to lead my life in a Godly way and let my actions speak, and I'm happy to talk to anybody about my faith. I also think it's a disservice to God for people to be saying, "Thank God, that parking place opened up", or, "Praise God, I found my lost button", etc UNLESS it the person was honest and had truly prayed earnestly for this to happen. Those off the cuff Praise God things we hear all the time are troubling to me and I think as proven in this thread sound like bs to those who struggle with the concept of God and a higher power. In other words, it's a stumbling block.

I absolutely do not believe in fate/predestination. I do believe that God can see from the beginning to the end, but I think he can and still lets people have free will to make their own decisions whether they be good or bad.

Luck is something most Christians don't believe in. I think I do believe in it, because there are too many trivial things that God doesn't care about that happen to be able to explain in any other way.

Lastly, I think organized religion has done a lot of people so much damage that they can't make themselves see past it. Lots of bad things have happened as we all know. Those who have been harmed by a Catholic upbringing, there are other options, and if you are ever willing to try Christianity again, I can certainly expand on it. I always seem to offend my Catholic friends on here, and I'm sorry for that, but really, that's how I feel.

I do not believe in karma, mainly because I'm not a Buddhist. I do think that it's a great thing to do unto others as you would have them do to you, but I don't think that means you are going to have an absolutely good thing happen to you in return.
 

smurphy

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http://www.theonion.com/content/node/46938

Critics Blast Bush For Not Praying Hard Enough

April 5, 2006 | Issue 42?14

WASHINGTON, DC?President Bush, already facing the lowest approval ratings in history, is coming under fire from former supporters over what they call his "ineffectual and incompetent" use of prayer for national guidance and assistance.

"Every time the president is criticized, he insists that the nation is in his prayers," said the Family Research Council's Bob Jensen. "That may be, but it's becoming more and more clear that these prayers are either too infrequent, too brief, or not strongly worded enough to be effective."

Jensen added: "This nation deserves more than a president who just pays lip service to prayer. It deserves a president who demands that his prayers get real-world results."

Despite assurances from the president that he "prays every day" for the nation's interests both at home and abroad, the mounting crises of recent months?escalating gas prices, the botched Dubai port security deal, ethics scandals, and the rising death toll in Iraq?have left many unimpressed with the effectiveness of his devotion.

Francine Gundersen, an Iowa mother and churchgoer, says she voted for Bush but is now having doubts about his commitment to prayer, particularly with regard to Iraq, where her son, P.F.C. Jason Gundersen, has served since June 2004.

"Bush says he prays for the soldiers' safe return, but if that's the case, where is my son, Mr. President?" she said.

The White House Office of Communications, which has denied any wrongpraying, released transcripts of Bush's inner dialogues with God from May 12 through Oct. 22, 2005 and tried to paint the president as "very close" to the Almighty, saying he speaks with Him "regularly."

"The president spends many hours each day alone in quiet contemplation," White House press secretary Scott McClellan said. "These allegations are, quite simply, absurd. The president is as strong a prayer as any who has occupied the White House."

In an interview on Fox News, Vice President Dick Cheney defended Bush, saying the president puts as much energy into prayer as he does into domestic policies.

"Half the time, I can't even get him on the phone because he's busy praying for the American people, the same people who are now so quick to criticize him," Cheney said. "If something's wrong with those prayers, I would suggest that it's perhaps the fault of a supernatural entity. But it's not the president's. He is doing his duty."

While newly released portions of White House prayer logs show that Bush's praying has actually gone up in recent months, critics are seeking to subpoena the documents in their entirety to determine the strength of those prayers.

The harshest criticisms continue to come from members of the president's conservative base, who insist that the proper devotional words must be used in prayer.

"There is a real possibility that the president misrepresented the number of times he invokes Jesus' power each day in accordance with the strict guidelines of scripture," said Henry Holbrook, senior fellow at the Intercession Institute, a leading conservative prayer tank. "Is he clasping his hands together tightly enough? Is he using the proper forms of the pronouns 'thine' and 'thou'? What about the verb 'hast'?"

Susan DiDomenico of the National Prayer Task Force said her organization is seeking "full disclosure" of any and all prayers Bush may have skipped or manipulated to seem more effective or holy.
 

dawgball

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The Onion is freaking hilarious.

On religion: to each his own. if you're open, you will find what you personally need. I am Catholic, but my beliefs don't mean doody to anyone else.
 

marine

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ok, here goes. Took some time away from this thread to digest things and think about what got me where I am today.

Yes, having religion shoved down your throat too much as a young person draws resentment down the road.

Religion has become too "corporate/big business" to be considered to be a celebration of a god.

I heard from my sister in law that they tried to join the catholic church where they moved to. Join up fee of almost $1k. Seriously. You have to pay money to join a church?

Anyway, I thought back to what brought me to where I am in my beliefs.

Boot camp. Yup. Boot camp. I went to the sunday religious service there and it was a choice of catholics and non catholics. So its a big mixing pot. But when I was there, it was actually ENJOYABLE. Seriously. I ENJOYED CHURCH FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER. I looked forward to going on sundays, not because it was an hour away from the DI, but because the other recruits there were enthusiastic about being there. People sang with gusto, sang with energy. We read the scriptures like we ENJOYED it, and it was a CELEBRATION. It wasn't about god or a religion - heck, there were about 40 different religions all under one roof having fun.

Fast forward a few weeks and I attend a regular church with my parents - I wanted to fvcking throw up. BOREDOM, people at church are fricking morbid. It's as if people are scared to be there, oooo dont say anything too loud, oooooooo dont smile. god wont like that.

then it slowly started to dawn on me... piss on this.
"god" exists inside of us. "religion" is our enthusiasm and gusto for life. Do i need to believe in god? no. do i believe that there is good, brotherly love amongst humankind - yea for the most part, do i think some supreme being in the sky put it there? nope. fat chance. it's like a little seed that we can help grow by being positive about life and all that other happy hippy crap.

do i need to thank god for the turkey dinner at thanksgiving? nope.
i'll thank my skills and abilities and drive to succeed and hold down a steady job for that yummy tasty turkey.

*these are only my opinions and not facts
 

ferdville

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An old history teacher long, long ago told me that religion was a great way to keep poor people from committing illegal and violent acts. He reasoned that since the majority of the poor were ignorant some means had to be established to "keep them in line". Therefore we have Heaven and Hell. Be good and even though your earthly life sucks you will be rewarded with an eternity in Heaven. Be bad and you will live for eternity in Hell.
 

buddy

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...religion was a great way to keep poor people from committing illegal and violent acts.

by chance, did he ever hear of a great way to keep the ultra-rich from committing illegal and violent acts?
 

gardenweasel

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"the bunker"
a sort of "in theme" joke....

""A biker was riding along a California beach when suddenly the sky clouded above his head and, in a booming voice, the Lord said, "Because you have TRIED to be faithful to me in all ways, I will grant you one wish."

The biker pulled over and said, "Build a bridge to Hawaii so I can
ride over anytime I want."

The Lord said, "Your request is materialistic, think of the enormous
challenges for that kind of undertaking. The supports required to reach the bottom of the Pacific! The concrete and steel it would take! It will nearly exhaust several natural resources. I can do it, but it is hard for me to justify your desire for worldly things. Take a little more time and think of something that would honor and glorify me."

The biker thought about it for a long time.

Finally he said, "Lord, I wish that I could understand women. I want to know how they feel inside, what are they thinking when they give the silent treatment, why they cry, what they mean when they say nothing's wrong, and how I can make a woman truly happy."

The Lord replied, "You want that bridge with two lanes or four?
 

saint

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marine said:
Boot camp. Yup. Boot camp. I went to the sunday religious service there and it was a choice of catholics and non catholics. So its a big mixing pot. But when I was there, it was actually ENJOYABLE. Seriously. I ENJOYED CHURCH FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER. I looked forward to going on sundays, not because it was an hour away from the DI, but because the other recruits there were enthusiastic about being there. People sang with gusto, sang with energy. We read the scriptures like we ENJOYED it, and it was a CELEBRATION. It wasn't about god or a religion - heck, there were about 40 different religions all under one roof having fun.

Fast forward a few weeks and I attend a regular church with my parents - I wanted to fvcking throw up. BOREDOM, people at church are fricking morbid. It's as if people are scared to be there, oooo dont say anything too loud, oooooooo dont smile. god wont like that.

then it slowly started to dawn on me... piss on this.
"god" exists inside of us. "religion" is our enthusiasm and gusto for life. Do i need to believe in god? no. do i believe that there is good, brotherly love amongst humankind - yea for the most part, do i think some supreme being in the sky put it there? nope. fat chance. it's like a little seed that we can help grow by being positive about life and all that other happy hippy crap.

Why not search for another church that gives you the joy and satisfaction as the one you first discussed? I was raised a catholic but my fiance is southern baptist. To be honest, at first if was difficult...only because I was stubborn and fixed in my upbringing. I then allowed myself to realize that for the first time I enjoyed going to church with her. My fiance and I went to so many churches together, so many i disliked...until we found one we both loved. And in the end it turned out to be her baptist church.

I hate to get cheesy here but if you wanted it you could find another church to give you that happiness when u are there. Where everyone sings with joy and truly want to be there.
 

buddy

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I agree with Saint

You may find some church services + pastors more appealing than others

Some are dynamic and thought provoking

Others have a more moderate approach

In any case, I cherish the thought of having a Heavenly Father. And I personally pay close attention to sermons about the battle between God and Satan. It's my understanding that Satan wanted to be God. He wanted Divine Worship. God said "Nope". Cast him out of heaven. In turn, Satan's mission of revenge is to destroy everything that God created. That's why even though God created the world, Satan controls this world (it's a little more involved than this Sesame Street explanation).

Satan is very powerful. It's extremely foolish to try and take him on by yourself. But if you have faith in God you can say "Hey Satan, I won't take you on by myself, but have you ever met my Father?"
 
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Marco

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Consider myself to be an agnostic.....more or less agree with most if not all of what marine has had to say....

All this praise to god when it rains and the crops grow, yet when the tornado comes and wipes it all away, blasphemy if one blames or curses the same god one praised shortly before....

And, as in the athletes winning, all praise go to god, and if that athlete loses, then somehow he just didn't try hard enough. Always give credit to god for winning, if you lose it's your own damn fault. Some standard there, folks.
 
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