Fallujah

[fletcher]

I do't think we will get rid of them anyway that is why i used term sand flea above. Just try and keep them out of our country and fight the war or what ever it is away from our country or before long it will be in our country,before long being say 20 -50 years which is not a long time in world time.

I agree we should put Americans lives first as much as you can. What I do have a problem with and hate to sound harsh is the people who don't need to be there outside workers going over there to make the big payday, if you are military that is one thing but if you are stupid enough to go over their as a civilian to make money for your family, then I don't think your thinking much about family just by going there. I think big money and greed is what they are thinking about and really don't fell to sorry for them.

I know it sounds harsh but a little common sense can tell you that you would be far from safe over there so I blame them if they get grabbed on the streets or in a house just for being there. Not meant to offend anyone that might have a civilan worker over there but that is the facts.

 

[DoMyDermBest]

DJV, Dan, Stevie,
Its obvious that you are never going to see the world through anything other than apologist glasses. No reasonable person wants to see any of our soldiers killed or maimed. Now that your argument that this war was foughtfor the us to stel Iraqi oil has been discredited, the cry becomes that the price is too great to remove
saddam. One of the biggest obstacles to fighting this war is the political correctness apologists like you and many Europeans demand. Its time to treat mosques with weapons and enemy for what they are - Armories. Armories that should be destroyed. The 3 networks,N Y Times, CNN and you guys are too PC to accept this. Our soldiers pay for this every day with the loss of their limbs, blood and lives. Meanwhile your diatribe against this administration fortifies the resolve of our enemy.

 

[danmurphy jr]

shades of Ashcroft.

 

[StevieD]

DoMyDermBest, Bush is the Commander in Chief of this war. Do not blame anyone for not going into Mosques but him. That is his decision. As for this other argument that we give the enemy resolve by protesting the war that is also BS. I suppose we are supposed to blindly follow any President into any war just so we don't give the enemy resolve? I don't want us there. I do not see any reason why we are there but as long as we are there I think we should fully defend our soldiers. If that means leveling every mosque in Iraq then so be it. It is Bush who makes the policy.

 

[djv]

Now 39 dead and 275 wounded. So we can say what? Fallujah is ours. It never will be ours in a hit and run war they fight. Why we waisting good American life's? The Pres is dam lucky he held off till two days after the election. It's looks like were going to go city to city. What happen to the great plan. Wait till we have over 100000 Iraq's police and soldiers ready to do this job. It still comes back to black gold always did. They really think this country is stable enough for elections in 6 weeks.

 

[MrP]

I have heard the comment "wasting american lives" several times, as a Marine Vet I can tell you that if you have ever been in a situation like our young men and women are in now it isn't pretty. But if you tell them that the death of their brothers or sisters is a waste I think you will see one pissed off soldier. There are ways to say that you don't approve of the war or the policies of this government, but don't ever say that a soldiers life is a waste.

 

[gardenweasel]

djv...what do we do,then?....cut and run?... leave the interim gov`t and the pending elections swaying in the breeze?....

throw every life lost...every dollar spent....every effort expended down a rathole?....

the reality is,we are there....that`s the deal....you don`t like it.....i`m not crazy about it....but it`s a fact...

we are a few month away from the first elections in iraq in lord knows how long.....

do we try and make all this effort result in something positive?......as long a shot as it might seem...by rooting out these terrorist enclaves and disrupting their bases and operations.....or just be european and stick our heads in the sand and wish for the best?

we should have done a better job......but it is what it is...

we`re there...it`s ugly....it`s hard....but we`re there...

we have no other alternative other than to try and salvage this attempt by the iraqi`s at some sort of self determination.....

we can`t ignore the falujah`s and the ramadi`s....

to cut and run would leave the country in utter choas....

you think we are hated now?...if we walk away,how do you think the rest of the world will react?...we were vilified for going in...we will be vilifiied for abandoning the iraqi`s....

even john kerry recognized that we have to try and make this thing work.....

walking out isn`t an option....not at this point....

you can cry all you want.....if it makes you feel better,knock yourseldf out.....

but,realistically,we have no other option.....

 

[ScreaminPain]

Well said MrP!!

As a 'nam vet, I can assure you that there is nothing more frustrating than fighting with one hand tied behind your back as we did. Then to return home to scorn......

The Middle East with all their Imam's or clerics or whatever, will never be civilized until they learn to separate religion from politics.

 

[djv]

Guys been there did that. It's our governments policy that is doing the waisting. Know all about take orders and ra,ra. But you all tell me what we gained in Fullajah.
Nam is brought up. Good point. A good cause we were led to believe and WE all bought in the first 5 years. Then what? Nam sucked and we lost so many that did not have to die. Again a failed government policy caused that to happen. That is the government waisting good people to try and make a point. It does not make it right. Should we cut and run I'm always asked. Asked the idiot that sent us there. I again I ask what happen to the plan the Iraq's would go up front and we would sit behind and give support. It's there country lets have them start taking a bigger role. Either we have the 100000 trained Iraq's or we don't. Or Rummy is as brain dead as most thought he is. And he's still lieing to all of us as the rest of that crew is. Keep in mind they have used 9 different excuses for going to Iraq.

 

[gardenweasel]

djv....i ask you again......what would you do RIGHT NOW?......
would you just let the insurgents have fallujah and ramadi?...would you give up on allawai?

what would you do differently right now?...

other than stick your head in the sand and complain?

if you were informed you`d know that iraqi`s are being trained right now inside and outside of iraq......with the goal of having them police themselves....it takes time...

a straight answer,please....what else should we do?

i`m willing to listen...

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

You can listen to the doom andgloom by internal pesimists-Algeezerra and liberal media or tape from Zarqawi today----

The authenticity of the tape, posted on a Web site often used by Islamists, could not be immediately verified.


"The enemy is weak and cannot widen their battle so do not stop at expelling them ... advance toward them and rain rockets and mortars down on them," said the speaker

but the fact of the matter is our highly effective and courageous troops took the city and heart of the enemy in 1/3 projected time and while we took 40+ casualties as the left like to dwell on they forget to tell you the accomplishments these lives served--
They took the terrorist stronghold on their turf in record time-- a huge moral blow--in doing so inflicted 40/1 casuaties rate on their turf in surroudings (door to door) the was to enemys greatest strength---Found and destroyed 1000 of tons of weapons-explosives and bomb making factories---

Was nice to see a couple other vets in this thread as they also reinforced what soilders train for--it is their occupation--their pride and rarliy will you have one complain but rather feel sense of pride an accomplishment knowing they are doing their jobs--something the faint of heart can not comprehend.

I look on their accomplishment with pride and salute their courage and tenacity--and I guarantee you the terrorist took notice and will think next time---when they read Algezeera--U.S. liberal media--and others that try to portray that our troops and country don't have the guts for it.At some point in time they must realize it is our troops they are fighting and not our liberal whiners and their protest signs. We are not Spain!!!!

 

[djv]

I never questioned our troops or there courage. I do question the way our government uses them.
We send message a week before. The world new we were going into Fallujah. Real smart. Our leaders say we had to do that to prevent civilian deaths. Sure we were just sick about civilian deaths. When we were bombing the hell out of Iraq first 10 days of this fight. I don't think we told them where we would bomb.
I can see Ike sending message to the Germans were coming next Tuesday.
GW I said a couple months back when all we were talking about was the dam election they were gong to have. Then the 100 to 150 thousand troops they were trainig to protect there country.
I said find let them take a bigger role. Have your costly in American lifes election. Then for next six months pull our troops out 25000 at a time. Were done. Remember we went there for freedom from Saddam. At least thats one of the stories. We did not go there to stay as Bush has said. Two years would be long enough. Unless were there for some evil reason you never been told about. God Bless our Troops. The way we use them sometimes they need all the blessing they can get.

 

[dr. freeze]

this hand to hand urban combat is a joke....

either bomb the **** out of them or get out....

now the liberal news media is making a mockery of a battlefield decision and making the US look like the bad guys yet once again....they will not stop at inciting the enemy

lets get out and start drilling for oil in Alaska....

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

"When we were bombing the hell out of Iraq first 10 days of this fight. I don't think we told them where we would bomb."

A: We warned civilians what what coming and to get out of dodge
admitedly I am sure some stayed and some were held captive as shields.
B: I have seen the media also rave about the bombing and civilian lifes lost--but its also the same media bringing up our casulties--so by "their" thinking --Should we bomb to take away defences and save troops lives are should we not and sacrifice more troops??
--you can't have it both ways--UNLESS you just want to make sure you have SOMETHING to whine about regardless of options---
Personally I would like to see all these members of liberal media go into Fallujah 1st before invasion, without troops, and try to negotiate their majic--

I am just waiting for the 1st Kerry backer to come down on the marine that shot wounded Iraq'i

 

[djv]

If that guy moved at all that Marine did the right thing. As for the Press and T V. They should throw them all out to the rear. No more going with the troops. For sure I disagree with telling anyone were coming. We went there because the place was bad we were told. They had a army of over 125000 men. There were terrorist there. We cant pick and choose in war. And we dam sure should not put soldiers at risk with orders that are at best luke warm. Anyone ever wonder why when we had Fullajah ready to go in May we stopped. Politics.

 

[CHARLESMANSON]

Yes I know why we stopped in May DJV. Your vague answer of "politics" doesn't quite cut it. The terrorists were blending into the general population and too many innocents were getting killed. These monsters will stop at nothing.

 

[djv]

So the 2000 they cant find that were estimated to be there last week blended where Iran. No they won't stop as you say. Thats why our soldiers hands must not be tied by B S.

 

[StevieD]

Our soldiers should not be fighting this type of war. I dunno who is blaming the Marine. I have not been listening to news reports so I can't say if anybody is. But I would like to see an exit plan.

 

[spibble spab]

"no bastard has ever won a war by dying for his country.
He wins a war by making the other bastard die for HIS country."

George S Patton

let the deluge begin... :bigun:

 

[CHARLESMANSON]

Our soldiers shouldn't be fighting in this type of war??

Why??? Are the terrorists too much for us?? Ask any Marine and see what his answer is to that question. He'd probably kick your ass up to Canada.

That's pathetic. Utterly pathetic.