For this guy-anything's better than going back to Iraq

[MrChristo]

Much like the other current thread on this board, it seems things are indeed coming a full circle.

So, Mr Freeze...Suddenly the 'war' is more about oil than any other excuse you guys have been falling over each other defending for the last year or so?

I have to say that you even have a point here...The UN sanctions were becoming a threat to the world oil supply.
There was no way they would be lifted, so there had to be another way.....Hmmmm.

Isn't it funny that some of us have been saying these things all along with our stupid liberal logic.


Just as an aside, does it amuse anyone else that anything on US soil is "America's", but things in other countries are "the world's" :look:

 

[RAYMOND]

dr. freeze
for presidents

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

Sorry BJF just countering someone referring to Bush as immoral that applauded Clinton--

Same people that dissed Bush for "alleged" coke use give slick a pass on proven pardons for those proven and convicted--
a few he pardoned

Thomas Earl Burton, Virginia, 1982, attempted possession with intent to distribute cocaine.
James William Gardner, Wyoming, 1983, conspiracy to distribute cocaine.
Sebraien Michael Haygood, New York, importing cocaine.
Warren Curtis Hultgren Jr., Texas, 1982, conspiracy to possess with intent to distribute cocaine
Leslie Jan McCall, Oklahoma, 1988, using telephone in cocaine distribution
John Timothy Thompson, Oklahoma, 1986, using telephone in cocaine distribution.

Now you tell me which is worse--being "alleged of use" are the above

and coup de grace I have been waiting for the very 1st liberal to come up with even the remotest excuse for this pardon--other than outride greed.

On the night before and morning of his departure from office, Bill Clinton made several controversial "midnight" pardons. Aside from pardoning political allies and scandal co-conspirators such as Susan McDougal, Henry Cisneros, and his brother Roger, Bill pardoned fugitive criminal millionaire Marc Rich. Rich was charged in the early eighties with several felony offenses but fled to Switzerland to avoid facing trial. Among Rich's crimes were oil deals with Iran during the hostage crisis and ties to arms smuggling. Amazingly, Clinton completely disregarded pardon protocol in the Rich case and failed to properly inform many authorities in the justice department of Rich's fugitive status. The story becomes more interesting considering that Marc Rich's ex wife Denise, who fought for his pardon, is a close Clinton friend and DNC donor. Denise Rich gave $1 million in contributions to the DNC, $450,000 to Bill Clinton's library fund, and $70,000 to Hillary Clinton's senate campaign according to the Washington Times (2/22/00). The Rich pardon appears to be a political pay off and, though the president may constitutionally pardon anyone, it appears he abused his authority in a quid pro quo pardon in exchange for political donations. Clinton's pardon of Rich has prompted criticism from even the most liberal Clinton defenders and several prominent Democrats. Former President Carter called the pardon "disgraceful" while Senator Tom Harkin and even Rep. Barney Frank criticized it!
But that is by no means all. Hillary Clinton's brother Hugh Rodham was paid over $400,000 dollars for successfully fighting for pardons and commutations for criminals Carlos Vignali and Almon Glenn Braswell, two included in Clinton's last minute pardons and commutations list. Upon the eve of this story breaking, Hillary and Bill denied any knowledge of Hugh's involvement and, under pressure, called on him to return the money. Translation: they got caught

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

--and getting back to topic--despite the way the liberals like to project doom and gloom on plight of soiders there, consider this as of dec 15 2004 the following is deaths related to combat.

American Military Casualties in Iraq

Date Total In Combat

American Deaths
Since war began (3/19/03): 1304 1024
Since "Mission Accomplished" (5/1/03) (the list) 1167 914
Since Capture of Saddam (12/13/03): 840 720
Since Handover (6/29/04): 440 392

Considering we have been there 19 months--570 days and had 1,024 deaths by combat with an ave of 138,000 troops on the ground--a soilders odds of getting killed in combat on any given day is .000013 or .0013%----I don't know about anyone else but I'll take my chances with "24 hours" in Iraq vs "1 hour" in the getto's of the U.S. at night anytime.

to put things in perspective
"Alaskan shellfish industry averaged 400 fatalities per 100,000 workers during the 1990s."

that would equate to 552 fatalities per 138,000 a year or 874 in 19 months.

 

[StevieD]

Let's put things in perspective DTB. None of those people that Clinton pardoned went on to become President of the United States and none of them led America into a diversion in the fight against terror and led us into the quagmire that is Iraq.
Maybe the death and injured toll is ok for you, I dunno.
In defense of Dr. Freeze he has always maintained that this invasion of Iraq had to do more with oil than the alleged freedom of the Iraqi people.
While American soldiers are dying and being sent home with terrible injuries because of lack or armor, Bush is cutting taxes for the wealthy. The first President in history to cut taxes while the country is at war.

 

[dr. freeze]

Much like the other current thread on this board, it seems things are indeed coming a full circle.

So, Mr Freeze...Suddenly the 'war' is more about oil than any other excuse you guys have been falling over each other defending for the last year or so?

I have to say that you even have a point here...The UN sanctions were becoming a threat to the world oil supply.
There was no way they would be lifted, so there had to be another way.....Hmmmm.

Isn't it funny that some of us have been saying these things all along with our stupid liberal logic.


Just as an aside, does it amuse anyone else that anything on US soil is "America's", but things in other countries are "the world's" :look:

i have always said the war was about oil

you can't say that publicly or your will get killed politically by the press....that is why leaders do not discuss it

it is also about national security

we thought Hussein was a WMD threat...Kosar that is why we thought he was a threat to our oil interests

now it appears that this may have not been true...but who knows, it may have been....all we know is that we don't know what was going on as far as WMD"s are concerned

AND we also saw Hussein as a proponent/advocate of state sponsored terror and taking him down would send a clear message to other regimes that we were not going to tolerate this anymore....since he was currently in violation of a cease fire agreement, from a war in which a peace treaty was never signed, we had all the authority we needed to start there

your "liberal logic" has nothing to do with any of what the war is about....it is about oil interests, which IS a moral issue....as i have outlined above...

war was never about "freeing the people"....although that is a nice little side effect, and one which many of us thought they might embrace a little more....and also gave us more moral authority to do what we are doing....

it is stupid to argue that "Bush is fighting the war for oil" and act like that is an insult to him and to Conservatives....we know that....we just are not going to come out and say it because the liberal media for some reason does not agree with this agenda.....although losing our oil interests would hurt all the above things that it does for the world

 

[dr. freeze]

unfortunately, none of our leaders ever admit any kind of mistake. it's always someone elses fault - or was never a mistake to begin with. i dont know if it's a sign of the times or what. it's as if you commit career suicide by being real with people. all your allowed to do is say stupid stuff about "terror" and "freedom" and "cowards" and "courage" - overusing these words to the point where they have absolutely no meaning anymore.

when i hear dubya say anything about freedom, i want to vomit. he's just manipulating us - taking advantage of people's idealistic and unrealistic views about us and our place in the world. he used 9-11 to get re-elected, he uses it every time he wants support for anything.

what "mistake" is he supposed to admit?

is he supposed to get on there and admit every tactical mistake he made?

is he supposed to fall into the trap of a journalists agenda-loaded question?

and why are you all worked up about who made a mistake?

why don't you put your time and energy into what we should do next?

such has become the liberal....a finger pointing armchair quarterback....very pathetic

 

[Chanman]

http://www.sacbee.com/content/news/story/11744167p-12630255c.html

Sid Adger
Mr. Adger, a Houston oil supply company executive and Bush family friend, died in 1996 of unknown causes. Adger was the mysterious businessman who approached General James Rose and asked him to help George W. Bush avoid Vietnam by recommending him for a pilot position with the National Guard.

General James Rose
General Rose recommended George W. Bush for a pilot position with the Texas National Guard. He died of unknown causes in 1993. He was immediately buried and no autopsy was performed.

Lt. Colonel William Harris, Jr.
Lt. Col. William Harris was one of two commanding officers who could not perform George W. Bush's annual evaluation covering the year from May 1, 1972 to April 30, 1973. They stated in their filing that "Lt. Bush has not been observed at this unit during the period of this report." Fortunately for George W. Bush, Lt. Col. Harris is not here to verify his 1973 statement. He's dead.

Lt. Colonel Jerry B. Killian
Lt. Col. Jerry B. Killian was another of George W. Bush's commanding officers. He cannot testify in a court of law as to George W. Bush's dereliction of his sworn duty. Lt. Col. Killian is dead.

James Downing Aalund
Mr. Aalund's name is the first on a long list of young Texans who died in Vietnam. These young men did not have influential fathers to pull the strings necessary to get them into the Texas Air National Guard. If they had been so lucky, they would surely have fulfilled their responsibilities to the ANG, if only out of gratitude that they did not have to die, thousands of miles away in a strange land. They surely would not have disappeared from duty for over a year, as did our fearless leader George W. Bush.

Enron - Bodies

J. Clifford Baxter
Found dead in his car, shot in the head. Mr. Baxter was vice chairman of Enron Corp. when he resigned in May 2001. Enron has been hot copy lately with the revelation that they were the largest campaign contributors for George W. Bush. Was J. Clifford Baxter a potential witness to Bush foreknowledge of their wrongdoings? His death was ruled a suicide.

Charles Dana Rice
He was the senior vice president and treasurer of El Paso Corp., an energy corporation swept up in the recent energy scandal. Two months after the "suicide" of Enron executive Clifford Baxter, in the midst of questions about the accounting practices of El Paso Corp., Charles Rice was found dead of a gunshot wound to the head. His death was ruled a suicide.

James Daniel Watkins
His body was found on December 1, 2001 in the Pike National Forest in Colorado, a gunshot wound to the head. Mr. Watkins was a consultant for Arthur Andersen, the accounting firm for Enron. He disappeared on November 13 after he left work. He was described as a devoted family man who always called home if he were going to be late. Officials initially said that the death was suspicious, but have changed their tune and have ruled his death a suicide.

Commerce Secretary Ron Brown
He died in a plane crash on April 3, 1996. Was Ron Brown the first Enron body? In 1995 Enron officials accompanied Brown on a trade mission to India, and to Russia in 1994. Speculation among right-wing whackos suggests that our last duly-elected President, Bill Clinton, was somehow responsible for his death, but we wonder: was Secretary Brown privy to information that would conclusively link George W. Bush to Enron greed and corruption? Charles Meissner, Assistant Commerce Secretary, also died in this crash.

Jake Horton
He was the senior vice-president of Gulf Power, a subsidiary of Southern Company, a cohort of Enron in the energy industry, and a major contributer to the Bush agenda. According to reporter <http://www.guardian.co.uk/enron/story/0,11337,643422,00.html>Gregory Palast, Horton knew of the company's appalling accounting practices, and "... had no doubt about its illegal campaign contributions to Florida politicans - he'd made the payments himself. In April of 1989 Horton decided to come clean with state officials, and reserved the company jet to go confront company officials. Ten minutes after takeoff the jet exploded.


Kennedy Assassination - Bodies

John Fitzgerald Kennedy
An internal FBI memo reported that on November 22 a reputed businessman named George H. W. Bush reported hearsay that a certain Young Republican had been talking of killing the President when he came to Houston. The Young Republican was nowhere near Dallas on that date. According to a 1988 story in The Nation, J. Edgar Hoover said in a memo that Mr. George Bush of the CIA had been briefed on November 23rd, 1963 about the reaction of anti-Castro Cuban exiles in Miami to the assassination of President Kennedy. George H. W. Bush has denied this, although he was in Texas and cannot account for his whereabouts at the time.

Hale Boggs
He sat on the Warren Commission, which concluded that President Kennedy was slain by a lone assassin. Later, in 1971 and '72, Boggs said that the Warren Report was false and that J. Edgar Hoover's FBI not only helped cover up the JFK murder but blackmailed Congress with massive wire-tapping and spying. He named Warren Commission staff member Arlen Specter as a major cover-up artist. Congressman Boggs' plane disappeared on a flight to Alaska in 1972. The press, the military, and the CIA publicly proclaimed the plane could not be located. Investigators later said that was a lie, that the plane had been found. On the plane were Nick Begich, a very popular Democratic Congressman, and Don Jonz, an aide to Mr. Boggs. All were killed.

 

[Chanman]

George de Mohrenschildt
A rich Russian oilman, he was described with his wife as being the two people friendliest to Oswald at the time of the assassination. De Mohrenschildt was the man who moved Oswald to Dallas. In the late 1970's, shortly before the first meeting of the House Select Committee on Assassinations, de Mohrenschildt started seeing a new doctor in town. He quickly became mentally unstable, at which time his wife convinced him to stop seeing the doctor. They moved away and left a false forwarding address. On the same day that the Committee tried to contact him about testifying, he was found dead of a gunshot wound. In his personal address book was the entry Bush, George H.W. (Poppy) and Zapata Petroleum Midland (the oil company owned by George H.W. Bush).

Mrs. E. Howard Hunt
In December 1972, while George H. W. Bush was at the Republican National Convention, a United Airlines flight carrying Mrs. Dorothy Hunt, CIA operative and wife of Howard Hunt, (CIA operative and suspect in the Kennedy assassination) crashed. Believed to be carrying $25,000 in "hush money", she died in this crash.


George H.W. Bush - Bodies

Gary Caradori
He was investigating Lawrence E. King, Jr., a very influential black Republican who was also a friend of George H.W. Bush. King was director of the Franklin Community Credit Union in Omaha, Nebraska, and was suspected of embezzling $40 million . The Nebraska Senate questioned child prostitutes, who accused King of running a child prostitution ring. One of these children said that she saw George H.W. Bush at one of King's parties. "Pronto", a newspaper in Barcelona, Spain, reported that the scandal "appears to directly implicate politicos of the state of Nebraska and Washington DC who are very close to the White House and George Bush himself". On July 11, 1990, Gary Caradori was killed along with his 6-year old son in the crash of his small plane, after a mid-air explosion, the cause of which was never discovered. He had told friends repeatedly in the weeks before his death that he was afraid his plane would be sabotaged.

Orlando Letelier
He was torn to bits by a car bomb on the streets of Washington DC just before he was to testify against the Chilean dictator Pinochet. After the bombing, CIA Director George H. W. Bush told the FBI that there had been no Chilean involvement whatsoever. In 1991 the post-Pinochet Chilean Supreme Court asked George H. W. Bush if he would submit to questioning. BUSH REFUSED.

Ronni Moffit
She was Letelier's assistant. She and her husband were riding in the car with Letelier when the bomb exploded. Mr. Moffit survived. Ronni didn't.

Jack Delaney and Ted White
These young men were killed when pilot George H. W. Bush abandoned his plane when it was hit by enemy fire. Much has been made of this story - Bush propaganda would have us believe that he was a hero. An eyewitness to the event tells us otherwise: Chester Mierzejewski, who was the turret gunner in another plane, had an unobstructed view. He states that he saw a "puff of smoke" come from Bush's plane and quickly dissipate. He states that the plane was never on fire and that Bush never attempted a water landing, which was standard procedure, and which would have given Mr. Delaney and Mr. White a chance.

Silent Voices - Bodies

Steve Kangas
His web site, Liberalism Resurgent, was meticulously researched and presented such a problem to the "real boss" of George Bush, Richard Scaife, that he hired a private detective to look into Kangas' past. Steve Kangas was found in a 39th-floor bathroom outside of Scaife's offices at One Oxford Centre, in Pittsburgh, an apparent suicide. Mr. Kangas, a very prolific writer, left no note. He had brought a fully-packed suitcase of clothes with him to Pittsburgh. He bought a burglar alarm shortly before he left for Pittsburgh. Why did he need a burglar alarm if he was going to commit suicide? An avowed advocate of gun control, he nevertheless bought a gun. What was he afraid of? Why did he go to Pittsburgh? After his death, his computer was sold for $150 and its hard drive wiped clean. Everything in his apartment was thrown away.

Danny Casolaro
He was working on a book that tied together the scandals surrounding the presidency of George H. W. Bush. He told his friends he was going to "bring back" the head of the Octopus. Instead, his body was found in a hotel in Martinsburg, West Virginia, on August 10, 1991, an apparent suicide.

Mark Lombardi
He was an accomplished conceptual artist who, while chatting on the phone with a banker friend about the Bush savings and loan scandal, started doodling a diagram and was inspired to create a complex series of drawings and sketches that charted the details of the scandal. According to the New York Times, "He was soon charting the complex matrices of personal and professional relationships, conflict of interest, malfeasance and fraud uncovered by investigations into the major financial and political scandals of the day; to keep facts and sources straight, he created a handwritten database that now includes around 12,000 3-by-5-inch cards."

On the evening of March 22, 2000, Mark Lombardi was found hanging in his loft, an apparent suicide.

 

[Chanman]

James Hatfield
Mr. Hatfield was the author of Fortunate Son, an unauthorized biography of George W. Bush. The book detailed Bush's cocaine use and cover up of a cocaine arrest. He was found Wednesday, July 18, in a motel room, an apparent suicide.

Prescott Bush - Bodies

William S. Farish
He was one of Prescott Bush's partners in business deals with Adolph Hitler. He was devastated by the intense grilling he received from the Senate about his dealings with Nazis, and while Prescott Bush skated free, Farish collapsed and died on November 29, 1942.

James Forrestal
He was U.S. Secretary of Defense, and become a problem for Prescott Bush when he proposed racial integration of the Armed Forces. On March 28, 1949, he was forced out of office and flown on a military plane to Jupiter Island in Florida. From there he was taken to Walter Reed Army Hospital, where he was given insulin shock treatments. He was shielded from all visitors except his estranged wife. From "George Bush, the Unauthorized Biography":

On May 22, Forrestal's body was found, his bathrobe cord tied tightly around his neck, after he had plunged from a sixteenth-story hospital window. The chief psychiatrist called the death a suicide even before any investigation was started. The results of the Army's inquest were kept secret. Forrestal's diaries were published, 80 percent deleted, after a year of direct government censorship and rewriting

Texas Justice - Bodies

Karla Faye Tucker
She was executed in spite of enormous protest from the public, even those religious groups that advocate the death penalty. Even Pat Robertson thought that Karla was truly repentant and asked George W. Bush to spare her life. He refused. Afterward, in a Talk Magazine interview, Bush mocked the woman whose death warrant he had sanctioned, pursing his lips and whimpering, "Please don't kill me!"

David Wayne Spence
David Wayne Spence was executed in Texas in 1997 in spite of compelling evidence of his innocence. Two of the State's witnesses were co-defendants who testified to avoid the death penalty, one of whom changed his story three times in response to discrepancies. He later testified that D.A. Simons encouraged him to alter his testimony. Two other witnesses for the State were jailhouse snitches who recanted later and stated that Simons offered them favors in exchange for testimony. All of this and more was supposedly reviewed by Governor George W. Bush, but Bush refused to commute his sentence, and did not order the Board of Pardons and Paroles to review his request for clemency. It is a myth that a Texas Governor can do nothing to stop executions; the Board will almost always go with his recommendation. Bush washed his hands of the matter and did nothing. Reasonable doubt is not a factor in Texas justice.

Gary Graham
Gary Graham was convicted of the robbery and murder of a white man in 1981. Nearly two weeks after the crime, the state's prime witness could not pick Gary's picture out of a photo line-up. Mr. Graham was arrested with a 22 caliber pistol. The victim had been killed with a 22, but the police firearms examiner determined that Mr. Graham's gun DID NOT fire the fatal bullet. Four witnesses said Gary Graham was with them, miles away from the convenience store, when the murder occured. All four took and passed polygraph tests. George W. Bush, predictably, expressed his faith in the Texas judicial system and allowed Mr. Graham to be put to death. Mr. Graham maintained his innocence to the end.

http://www.greaterthings.com/News/Dubya/


Iran Contra - Bodies

Olof Palme
He was the prime minister of Sweden, assassinated in 1986. Oliver North, the golden boy of the Bush/Reagan machine, had met with Mr. Palme to discuss the possibility of obtaining false end-user certificates for the plethora of weapons that were being purchased, so that they would seem to have come from a country other than the U.S. Mr. Palme refused to participate, after the plan was presented to him. He was dead within weeks.

William Casey
William Casey was CIA Director during the Reagan/Bush Administration. He died 2 days before he was to testify about his and others' involvement in the Iran/Contra scandal.

Edmond J. Safra
Banker Edmond J. Safra died mysteriously when a fire swept his Monaco penthouse apartment. His banks had been used for laundering money by the Bush Iran/Contra traitors.

 

[Chanman]

Charles M. McKee and Matthew Gannon
Charles M. McKee, ostensibly a military attache for the DIA in Beirut, Matthew Gannon, CIA Deputy Station Chief in Beirut, and three others were on board Pan Am Flight 103, which exploded over Lockerbie, Scotland. They were part of a counterterrorist team in Beirut investigating the possible rescue of 9 American hostages in Lebanon. The McKee team uncovered evidence that a rogue CIA unit called COREA, based in Wiesbaden, was doing business with a man called Monzer Al-Kassar, a Syrian arms dealer and drug trafficker. Al-Kassar was part of the covert network run by U.S. Lieut. Colonel Oliver North. Outraged that the COREA unit in Wiesbaden was doing business with a Syrian who had close terrorist connections and might endanger their chances of rescuing the hostages, the McKee team decided to fly back to Virginia unannounced and expose the COREA unit's secret deal with al-Kassar. They never got there. "For three years, I've had a feeling that if Chuck hadn't been on that plane, it wouldn't have been bombed," said Beulah McKee, 75, Charles McKee's mother, to Time Magazine. Four months after her son was killed for his efforts to expose the CIA, Mrs. McKee received a sympathy letter from George H. W. Bush. Mrs. McKee has never been satisfied with the government's version of events.

Don Aronow
He was a close friend of George H. W. Bush. According to the book "George Bush, the Unauthorized Biography," there is compelling evidence to conclude that Aronow was a drug smuggler and suspected drug-money launderer. He was murdered by professional killers on February 3, 1987. In the days before his death, he made many personal calls to George H. W. Bush.

Tommy Teagle, a man interviewed by author Thomas Burdick, was afraid of being murdered by Bush because he had knowledge that Aronow and Jeb Bush had been partners in cocaine trafficking.

Michael Hand
He was a Green Beret and an Army Colonel assigned to the CIA. He ran the Nugan Hand Bank, a front for CIA drug money, in Sydney, Australia. He was in frequent contact with George Bush after his election to Vice President, according to CIA operative Trento Parker. Michael Hand was found in his car on a remote road outside Sydney, an apparent suicide. There were no fingerprints on the gun.


September 11, 2001 - Bodies

Bob Stevens
Mr. Stevens died of a mysterious case of anthrax. He worked as a photo editor for American Media, who owns the National Enquirer. The Bush family suffered enormous embarrassment at the hands of the Enquirer when they published a photo of daughter Jenna Bush, obviously intoxicated, cigarette in hand, cavorting on the floor with another drunken female.

Don C. Wiley
Dr. Wiley disappeared November 15, 2001 in Memphis, Tennessee. He was attending a two-day annual meeting of the scientific advisory board of St. Jude Children's Research Hospital. His work on deadly diseases such as ebola and HIV raised fears of a terrorist kidnapping. Four hours later, his rental car was found on a bridge, raising the question of suicide, which his family vehemently refuted. Dr. Wiley was found a month later in the Mississipi River.

Salem bin Laden
In 1979 Bush business Arbusto Energy obtained financing from James Bath, a close family friend. Bath had extensive ties to BCCI and the bin Laden family. Bath was the sole U.S. business representative for Salem bin Laden, the brother of Osama bin Laden. It is well known in certain circles that the Arbusto money came straight from Salem bin Laden, although Bush denies it. Salem bin Laden died when for no apparent reason, he flew his airplane into power lines where it became entangled, and fell 150 feet to the ground. "He was a very experienced pilot. He was a good pilot. We just can't understand why he decided to go right instead of left," recalled airstrip owner Earl May field.

Thomas Morris Jr.
Mr. Morris was a postal worker who died October 21, 2001, of inhalation anthrax. When people expressed concern to the current occupant of the White House about the anthrax cases in New York and Washington, his response was to tell us not to worry, that he does not have anthrax.

Joseph Curseen
Mr. Curseen died October 22, 2001, of inhalation anthrax. It has been reported that the anthrax infections since September 11 are of the same strain that was kept in a military facility.

Kathy T. Nguyen
Ms. Nguyen died on October 31, 2001, of inhalation anthrax. But we shouldn't worry - George W. Bush remains anthrax-free.

Katherine Smith
She had been implicated in February in a phony passport scheme said to be related to the September 11 hijackers. One day before she was due in court, she was incinerated in her car after having hit a utility pole. An investigation revealed that the crash was minor and was not the cause of the fire that burned Smith beyond recognition. Who was really behind 9/11? Was Katherine Smith privy to that information? Why did she have to die, and who killed her?

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

Don't like to see any death or injury but it is far from the abiss the media tries to portray.

per your
"While American soldiers are dying and being sent home with terrible injuries because of lack or armor, Bush is cutting taxes for the wealthy. The first President in history to cut taxes while the country is at war."

two questions
What class "that pays" taxes didn't get a tax cut?????
Referring to only one of class when everyone got one I believe is referred to as spin.

and 1st pres to cut taxes in war I would assume is correct--since I can only come up with 4 times in history that any president has cut taxes---
What is your opinion of Clinton raising taxes in times of prosperity???

Fact is wealthy are paying more as % of income to anytime in history--and more or paying no taxes.
note chart
http://www.house.gov/jec/fiscal/tx-grwth/reagtxct/reagtxct.htm

 

[Chanman]

http://www.ncpa.org/press/nr062600a.html

 

[MrChristo]

Great posting, Chanman.....Some of your best work!! :toast:

Of course, it all pales into insignificance because Clinton lied about a cigar party.

Don't like to see any death or injury but it is far from the abiss [sic] the media tries to portray.

DTB, if even ONE of those stories is true, it's a horrible indictment on the man (and his family).

 

[BobbyBlueChip]

Not defending Clinton for his actions, but drug-runners and tax evaders are hardly in the same vincinity as those who sell weapons to terrorists and are backed by the government. Trying to keep it fair and balanced


Text:
BUSH PARDONS WEINBERGER, FIVE OTHERS TIED TO IRAN-CONTRA

(Calls Weinberger "true American patriot") (650) By Dian McDonald USIA White House Correspondent Washington -- President Bush December 24 granted pardons to former Defense Secretary Caspar Weinberger and five other individuals for their conduct related to the Iran-Contra affair.

Bush said Weinberger -- who had been scheduled to go on trial in Washington January 5 on charges related to Iran-Contra -- was a "true American patriot," who had served with "distinction" in a series of public positions since the late 1960s.

"I am pardoning him not just out of compassion or to spare a 75-year-old patriot the torment of lengthy and costly legal proceedings, but to make it possible for him to receive the honor he deserves for his extraordinary service to our country," Bush said in a proclamation granting executive clemency.

The president also pardoned five other persons who already had pleaded guilty or had been indicted or convicted in connection with the Iran-Contra arms-for-hostages investigation. They were Elliott Abrams, a former assistant secretary of state for Inter-American affairs; former National Security Adviser Robert McFarlane; and Duane Clarridge, Alan Fiers, and Clair George, all former employees of the Central Intelligence Agency.

Explaining those pardons, Bush said the "common denominator of their motivation -- whether their actions were right or wrong -- was patriotism." They did not profit or seek to profit from their conduct, Bush said, adding that all five "have already paid a price -- in depleted savings, lost careers, anguished families -- grossly disproportionate to any misdeeds or errors of judgment they may have committed."

Asked about the pardons at a news conference in Little Rock, Arkansas, later in the day, President-elect Clinton said he did not have all the details on the matter and would withhold comment until he had had a chance to study the president's statement and related information.

However, Clinton said he was concerned "by any action which sends a signal that, if you work for the government, you're above the law, or that not telling the truth to Congress under oath is somehow less serious than not telling the truth to some other body under oath."

The Iran-Contra affair involved the secret sale of weapons to Iran in exchange for the release of American hostages held in Lebanon by pro-Iranian terrorists and the diversion of money from that sale to provide support for anti-communist resistance fighters in Nicaragua known as the "Contras."

Weinberger had been charged by independent counsel Lawrence Walsh with four counts of lying to congressional Iran-Contra investigators in 1987 and to Walsh's prosecutors in 1990. His case involved allegations that he had concealed from congressional investigators his personal notes that detailed events related to Iran-Contra and which reportedly undermined what then-President Reagan said about the origins and operations of the covert arms-for-hostages dealings. Weinberger had pleaded not guilty and said he was being unfairly prosecuted.

Although a president has unlimited pardon powers, it is highly unusual to pardon someone before trial and conviction. The best-known precedent -- following the Watergate political scandal during the Nixon administration -- was former President Ford's pardon in 1974 of former President Nixon, who was never indicted.

Bush said the prosecutions of the persons he was pardoning on Christmas Eve represent "what I believe is a profoundly troubling development in the political and legal climate of our country: the criminalization of policy differences."

The differences should be addressed in "the political arena, without the Damocles sword of criminality hanging over the heads of some of the combatants," he said. "The proper target is the president, not his subordinates; the proper forum is the voting booth, not the courtroom."

Bush also granted Christmas Eve pardons to 18 other individuals who were not involved in the Iran-Contra affair.

 

[djv]

It's is funny how groups take things that happen when someone is President and deside it's all there doing. Of course all those list are just that. List. I tell you what looks like all our Presidents are bad guys. It's D C that must do it.
DTB Hey a tax cut while were at war. Yes you could do that for yourself same way Bush did it. Just borrow some cash don't pay it back. Or just skip a few credit card payments. But sooner or later of course we all get topay it back. Now we get topay higher local taxes and fees due to Fed's cut states back. Or they borrow from the broke S/S fund they say needs money. Funny how that S/S fund always has money in it when they look for money to borrow.

 

[smurphy]

what "mistake" is he supposed to admit?

is he supposed to get on there and admit every tactical mistake he made?

is he supposed to fall into the trap of a journalists agenda-loaded question?

and why are you all worked up about who made a mistake?

why don't you put your time and energy into what we should do next?

such has become the liberal....a finger pointing armchair quarterback....very pathetic

Yeah right - PATHETIC. It's very difficult to suggest proper actions at this poinbt - BUT I ALREADY HAVE. We're back to what I always bitch about - NOBODY ACTUALLY ABSORBS WHAT ANYONE SAYS. So - AGAIN - what I say we need to do:

Either triple our forces, start a draft, and admit we're in WW3 ...OR get out, apologize to the world for our agression and batten down the hatches at home.

Keep calling me a "LIBERAL" jackass! Your pathetic!

 

[dr. freeze]

so you think we shuold just pull out or triple our forces and start a draft...

lmao...very good idea

option a would be horrble for our national security

option b is a worse idea than what we already have going

and apologize for what? enforcing a cease fire agreement? that is absurd

guess that is all one can expect from most liberals these days

 

[MrChristo]

As opposed to your best option, which is, plug on as we are, complain about how those evil little cowards continue to fight dirty...and continue to come even, no mater how many we seem to kill...Continue to lose western troops needlessly, all the while creating hate and resentment throughout the Muslim world.

Yes, some of us are complaining about what is going on...Funnily enough a lot of us 'complainers' seemed to see what was ahead when this all started, while others went gung-ho and dived head first into a 'war' they effectively knew nothing about.


Alex: Throws rocks, oppresses women, and waves guns for a living
Kosar: What is a misunderstood citizen

Sounds a bit like a Southerner to me

 

[dr. freeze]

yeah someday we will all hope to achieve the intellectual elitism as a liberal

hopefully i will feel enlightened as much as you are someday

funny how you cant get away from the "i told you so" mentality and want to resort to a weak ass foreign policy....

looking at the world from your utopian standpoint you join the legions of peaceniks which will eventually get rolled over like Ghandi did to the islamofasciist terrorists.....you fail to learn from history and fail to realize that 9-11 occurred as a result of inaction not action

you think that Iraq promotes "hatred" towards us and for some reason think that catering to terrorists demands is the best way to deal with them....

if securing the oil fields for the world, fighting terrorists who murder innocent women and children, liberating a people from one of the most aggregious human rights violators in the history of the world, building up the infrastructure of this country at the same time we are fighting the war -- something NO NATION HAS DONE IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD, and having a foreign policy that trains the world's health care providfers, has stimuated a world economy raising the standard of living throughout the globe, etc. etc....if people hate us for that...then they are either 1. psycho or 2. ignorant

and we will cater to neither mindset nor will our foreign policy serve ignorance or craziness

no we had a cease fire agreement to enforce and the threat of WMD's in teh hands of Hussein which for all we knew could get into the hands of any islamofasciist murderer out there

we decided to take action and yes things aren't going smoothly as hoped but they probalby are doing better than the media portrays...and we will win despite people like you and your constant negativity...

America Rules...We are the good guys

get that in your head or get out