Four difficult questions -

buddy

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"But none saith, Where is God my Maker, who giveth songs in the night; who teacheth us more than the beasts of the earth, and maketh us wiser than the fowls of heaven?"?Job 35:10-11.

ELIHU PERCEIVED the great ones of the earth oppressing the needy, and he traced their domineering tyranny to their forgetfulness of God: "None saith, Where is God my Maker?"

Surely, had they thought of God they could not have acted so unjustly.

Worse still, if I understand Elihu aright, he complained that even among the oppressed there was the same departure in heart from the Lord: they cried out by reason of the arm of the mighty, but unhappily they did not cry unto God their Maker, though he waits to be gracious unto all such, and executeth righteousness and judgment for all that are oppressed.

Both with great and small, with oppressors and oppressed, there is one common fault in our nature, which is described by the apostle in the Romans, "There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God."

Until divine grace comes in and changes our nature there is none that saith, "Where is God my Maker, who giveth songs in the night?"

This is a very grave fault, about which we shall speak for a few minutes, and may the Holy Ghost bless the word.

I. And first, LET US THINK OVER THESE NEGLECTED QUESTIONS, beginning with "Where is God my Maker?"

There are four questions in the text, each of which reminds us of the folly of forgetting it.

First, Where is God?

Above all things in the world we ought to think of him.

Pope said, "The proper study of mankind is man"; but it is far more true that the proper study of mankind is God.

Let man study man in the second place, but God first.

It is a sad thing that God is all in all, that we owe everything to him, and are under allegiance to him, and yet we neglect him.

Some men think of every person but God.

They have a place for everything else, but no place in their heart for God.

They are most exact in the discharge of other relative duties, and yet they forget their God.

They would count themselves mean indeed if they did not pay every man his own, and yet they rob God.

They rob him of his honor, to which they never give a thought they rob him of obedience, for his law has no hold on them; they rob him of his praise, for they are receiving daily at his hands, and yet they yield no gratitude to their great Benefactor.

"None saith, Where is God?"

My dear hearer, do you stand convicted of this?

Have you been walking up and down in this great house, and never asked to see the King whose palace it is?

Have you been rejoicing at this great feast, and have you never asked to see your Host?

Have you gone abroad through the various fields of nature, and have you never wished to know him whose breath perfumes the flowers, whose pencil paints the clouds, whose smile makes sunlight, and whose frown is storm.

Oh, it is a strange, sad fact?God so near us, and so necessary to us, and yet not sought for!

The next point is, "None saith, Where is God my Maker?"

Oh! unthinking man, God made you.

He fashioned your curious framework, and put every bone into its place.

He, as with needlework, embroidered each nerve, and vein, and sinew.

He made this curious harp of twice ten thousand strings: wonderful it is that it has kept in tune so long: but only he could have maintained its harmony.

He is your Maker.

You are a mass of dust, and you would crumble back to dust at this moment if he withdrew his preserving power: he but speaks, and you dissolve into the earth on which you tread.

Do you never think of your Maker?

Have you no thought for him without whom you could not think at all?

Oh, strange perversity and insanity that a man should find himself thus curiously made, and bearing within his own body that which will make him either a madman or a worshipper; and yet for all that he lives as if he had nothing to do with his Creator?"None saith, Where is God my Maker?"

There is great force in the next sentence: "Who giveth songs in the night."

That is to say, God is our Comforter.

Beloved friends, you that know God, I am sure you will bear witness that, though you have had very severe trials, you have always been sustained in them when God has been near you.

Some of us have been sick?nigh unto death, but we have almost loved our suffering chamber, and scarce wished to come out of it, so bright has the room become with the presence of God.

Some of us here have known what it is to bury our dearest friends, and others have been short of bread, and forced to look up each morning for your daily manna; but when your heavenly Father has been with you?speak, ye children of God?have you not had joy and rejoicing, and light in your dwellings?

When the night has been very dark, yet the fiery pillar has set the desert on a glow.

No groans have made night hideous, but you have sung like nightingales amid the blackest shades when God has been with you.

I can hardly tell you what joy, what confidence, what inward peace the presence of God gives to a man.

It will make him bear and dare, rest and wrestle, yield and yet conquer, die and yet live.

It will be very sad, therefore, if we poor sufferers forget our God, our Comforter, our song-giver.

Two little boys were once speaking together about Elijah riding to heaven in the chariot of fire.

One of them said, "I think he had plenty of courage.

I should have been afraid to ride in such a carriage as that."

"Ah!" Ah!" said the other, "but I would not mind if God drove it."

So do Christians say.

They mind not if they are called to mount a chariot of fire if God drives it.

We speak as honest men what we do know and feel, and we tell all our fellow-men that as long as God is present with us we have no choice of what happens to us, whether we sorrow or whether we rejoice.

We have learned to glory in tribulations also when God's own presence cheers our souls, why do not they also seek to know the Giver of songs?

And then there is a fourth point.

"None saith, Where is God my Maker, who teacheth us more than the beasts of the earth, and make/h us wiser than the fowls of heaven?"

Here we are reminded that God is our Instructor.

God has given us intellect; it is not by accident, but by his gift, that we are distinguished from the beasts and the fowls.

Now, if animals do not turn to God we do not wonder, but shall man forget?

Strange to say, there has been no rebellion against God among the beasts or the birds.

The beasts obey their God, and bow their necks to man.

There are no sin-loving cattle or apostate fowls, but there are fallen men.

Think, O man, it may have been better for thee if thou hadst been made a frog or a toad than to have lived a man if thou shouldst live and die without making peace with thy Maker.

Thou gloriest that thou art not a beast: take heed that the beast do not condemn thee.

Thou thinkest thyself vastly better than the sparrow which lights upon thy dwelling: take heed that thou do better and rise to nobler things.

Methinks if there were a choice in birds, and souls dwelt in them, their minstrelsy would be as pure as now it is: they would scorn to sing loose and frivolous songs, as men do, but they would carol everlastingly sweet psalms of praise to God.

Methinks if there were souls in any of the creatures, they would devote themselves to God. as surely as angels do.

Why then, O man, why is it that thou with thy superior endowments must needs be the sole rebel, the only creature of earthly mould that forgets the creating and instructing Lord?

Four points are then before us.

Man does not ask after his God, his Maker, his Comforter, his Instructor: is he not filled with a fourfold madness?

How can he excuse himself?

II. Supposing you do not ask these questions, let me remind you that THERE ARE QUESTIONS WHICH GOD WILL ASK OF YOU.

When Adam had broken God's command he did not say, "Where is God my Maker?" but the Lord did not therefore leave him alone.

No, the Lord came out, and a voice, silvery with grace, but yet terrible with justice, rang through the trees, "Adam, where art thou?"

There will come such a voice to you who have neglected God.

Your Judge will enquire, "Where art thou?"

Though you hide in the top of Carmel, or dive with the crooked serpent into the depths of the sea, you will hear that voice, and you will be constrained to answer it.

Your dust long scattered to the wind will come together, and your soul will enter into your body, and you will be obliged to answer, "Here am I, for thou didst call me."

Then you will hear the second question, "Why didst thou live and die without me?"

And such questions as these will come thick upon you, "What did I do that thou shouldst slight me?

Did I not give you innumerable mercies?

Why did you never think of me?

Did I not put salvation before you?

Did I not plead with you?

Did I not entreat you to turn unto me?

Why did you refuse me?

"You will have no answer to those questions: and then there will come another question?ah! how I wish it would come to you while there is time to answer it?"How shall we escape if we neglect so great salvation?"

To-night I put it to you that you may propose a way of escape, if your imagination is equal to the task.

You will be baffled even in trying to invent an escape now, and how much more when your time of judgment really comes!

If you neglect the salvation of God in Christ you cannot be saved.

In the next world, how will you answer that question?"How shall we escape?"

You will ask the rocks to hide you, but they will refuse you that dread indulgence.

You will beseech them to crush you, that you may no longer see the terrible face of the King upon the throne, but even that shall be denied you.

Oh, be wise, and ere you dare the wrath of the King eternal and dash upon the bosses of his buckler, turn and repent, for why will ye die?

III. Now, if any seek an answer to the grave enquiries of the text, and do sincerely ask, "Where is God my Maker?" let us GIVE THE ANSWERS.

Where is God?

He is everywhere.

He is all around you now.

If you want him, here he is.

He waits to be gracious to you.

Where is God your Maker?

He is within eye-sight of you.

You cannot see him, but he sees you.

He reads each thought and every motion of your spirit, and records it too.

He is within ear-shot of you.

Speak, and he will hear you.

Ay, whisper?nay, you need not even form the words with the lips, but let the thought be in the soul, and he is so near you?for in him you live and move and have your being?that he will know your heart before you know it yourself.

Where is your Comforter?

He is ready with his "songs in the night."

Where is your Instructor?

He waits to make you wise unto salvation.


"Where, then, may I meet him?" says one.

You cannot meet him?you must not attempt it?except through the Mediator.

"There is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."

If you come to Jesus you have come to God.

"God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself; not imputing their trespasses unto them, and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation," which word we preach.

Believe in Jesus Christ, and your God is with you.

Trust your soul with Jesus Christ, and you have found your Creator, and you shall never again have to say, "Where is God my Maker?" for you shall live in him, and he shall live in you.

You have found your Comforter and you shall joy in him, while he shall joy in you.

You have also in Christ Jesus found your Instructor, who shall guide you through life, and bring you to perfection in yon bright world above.

May the Holy Ghost use this little sermon as a short sword to slay your indifference; for Christ's sake.

 

Dead Money

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No disrespect...

No disrespect...

I attended Catholic school grades 1-6... by the time grade 5 rolled around; my greatest delight at the end of the school year was to RUSH to the basement and crank up the incinerator and burn my Cathecism, page by page.....

It was the force-fed daily mindless liturgy of un-proveable gobbletygoop as you have posted that drove me to it.

I sincerely hope you find what you are looking for.

In later life, I have aspired to have a clean life, and belief in "The Author of the Universe;" be it a he, she, or it.

I do sincerely thank the penquins for my good math skills.... multiplication tables over and over and over...came in handy later in life.
I also learned poker fundamentals at the twice yearly church carnival...thank you for that too...

Guess it was not a total waste......
 

buddy

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I also went to Catholic school grades 4 through 8. Like you, I also attended catechism classes.

At catechism, I was taught about the Holy Trinity. God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost. I was told over and over that God made me and loved me very much.

I was also taught about Satan and the danger of sin.

I was told Adam and Eve listened to a talking snake, took a bite from an apple and this single act was the ruination of all mankind.

I was taught about Jesus Christ, that he died for my sins and that accepting Him as my Lord and Savior would allow me to live with Him forever in heaven.

Like you, I viewed it as a fairy tale, laughed it off and never gave it much thought.

Oh, what a fool I was!

What an absolutely shameless fool.

But it's not to late. Don't be a fool like I was.

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved.

All glory, praise and honor to Jesus Christ The King.
 

flapjack

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Like you, I viewed it as a fairy tale, laughed it off and never gave it much thought.

Oh, what a fool I was!

What an absolutely shameless fool.

But it's not to late. Don't be a fool like I was.

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved.

All glory, praise and honor to Jesus Christ The King.


I'm going to take a wild guess and say that you encountered some type of tragedy or crisis that brought you back to religion. It was comforting and gave you a way to make meaning out of something difficult for your mind to grasp. No?
 

The Sponge

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I'm going to take a wild guess and say that you encountered some type of tragedy or crisis that brought you back to religion. It was comforting and gave you a way to make meaning out of something difficult for your mind to grasp. No?


From my experiences in life i think you hit the bullseye here.
 

gardenweasel

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buddy...what if you`d taken that fork in the religion road instead of staying on the straight and narrow?.....

you may have ended up in a whole `nother place....like this for instance:

""American commanders cite al-Qaida’s severe brand of Islam, which is so extreme that in Baqouba, al-Qaida has warned street vendors not to place tomatoes beside cucumbers because the vegetables are different genders, Col. David Sutherland said.""

good thing they didn`t put a cucumber next to a cucumber...that could get somebody the death penalty....



or...

""A Sudanese man has been forced to take a goat as his “wife”, after he was caught having sex with the animal.

The goat’s owner, Mr Alifi, said he surprised the man with his goat and took him to a council of elders. They ordered the man, Mr Tombe, to pay a dowry of 15,000 Sudanese dinars ($50) to Mr Alifi.

“We have given him the goat, and as far as we know they are still together,” Mr Alifi said""

stories like this always get my goat.....but i`m a sucker for happy endings....

one good thing...i doubt the kids will need a "nanny"....:SIB

buddy...be happy...
 
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buddy

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I'm going to take a wild guess and say that you encountered some type of tragedy or crisis that brought you back to religion. It was comforting and gave you a way to make meaning out of something difficult for your mind to grasp. No?
Reply With Quote

Yes, I did encounter a tragedy. I prayed to God to prevent the tragedy from becoming worse than it already is. I believe He is answering my prayers.

Please understand I am not as smart as everyone else. It takes me a bit longer to understand what comes so easily for most others.

But I asked God about this. I mean, who doesn't want to be like everyone else?

I said, "God, why can't I be as smart as everyone else?" I didn't actually hear His voice, but I believe He talked to my heart and said, "buddy, I need you on the low end of the intellectual bell curve. It makes it easier for me to work through you that way." I replied, "Lord, do with me whatever you want. All I ask is that the things I say and the things I think will be acceptable to you."

He kinda' thanked me and that was the end of it.
 

buddy

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"A Sudanese man has been forced to take a goat as his ?wife?, after he was caught having sex with the animal.

The goat?s owner, Mr Alifi, said he surprised the man with his goat and took him to a council of elders. They ordered the man, Mr Tombe, to pay a dowry of 15,000 Sudanese dinars ($50) to Mr Alifi.

?We have given him the goat, and as far as we know they are still together,? Mr Alifi said""

stories like this always get my goat.....but i`m a sucker for happy endings....

one good thing...i doubt the kids will need a "nanny"....

gw,

I once heard a story similar to this.

A man claimed to be invincible. Would do whatever he wanted. Whenever and with whom with no regard for consequence. Even had sex with animals.."I'm the greatest of all time", he proclaimed.

I read the story and thought...

Ha! He's just another G.O.A.T.
 

Dead Money

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What a creep....

What a creep....

""A Sudanese man has been forced to take a goat as his ?wife?, after he was caught having sex with the animal.

The goat?s owner, Mr Alifi, said he surprised the man with his goat and took him to a council of elders. They ordered the man, Mr Tombe, to pay a dowry of 15,000 Sudanese dinars ($50) to Mr Alifi.

?We have given him the goat, and as far as we know they are still together,? Mr Alifi said""


No wedding ceremony ??? Mr Tombe has NO class what so ever....
 

WhatsHisNuts

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"But none saith, Where is God my Maker, who giveth songs in the night; who teacheth us more than the beasts of the earth, and maketh us wiser than the fowls of heaven?"?Job 35:10-11.

Where is God my Maker?
This begs the question and is very close to the oft used example "Do you still beat your wife?". My answer is to this profound question is simple, he is imaginary and exists in your mind....if he "exists" at all.

who giveth songs in the night?
People giveth our songs in the night, unless you are referring to the animal noises and sounds of the world as "songs of the night" which could easily be taken as "who created the universe"? My answer is that I don't know, but I am 100% confident it wasn't some supernatural being.

who teacheth us more than the beasts of the earth?
As I have argued for the last few months, the Bible is a poor text (and dangerous one at that) to use if you are looking for a guide on how to live your life. You can cherry pick the good, but you are denying the truth of the Bible.....much like how the mother of a killer will still find a way to look past the misdeeds of her son. The bad stuff is there and easy to find, you just choose to ignore it.

who maketh us wiser than the fowls of heaven?
Once again, this begs the question simply by starting the question with the word "who".

It is not hard to see why people get so locked up in religion when they are posed questions like this. You are never given an alternative,other than satan. Either you believe in Him, or you will be spending time with me in the lake of fire for all eternity. When you go through the indoctrination process at an early age, you don't have the capacity to see the holes in questions like these and everything makes sense....especially when the answer is "obvious". This is not teaching, it is brainwashing.
 

blgstocks

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who giveth songs in the night?
People giveth our songs in the night, unless you are referring to the animal noises and sounds of the world as "songs of the night" which could easily be taken as "who created the universe"? My answer is that I don't know, but I am 100% confident it wasn't some supernatural being.


It is not hard to see why people get so locked up in religion when they are posed questions like this. You are never given an alternative,other than satan. Either you believe in Him, or you will be spending time with me in the lake of fire for all eternity. When you go through the indoctrination process at an early age, you don't have the capacity to see the holes in questions like these and everything makes sense....especially when the answer is "obvious". This is not teaching, it is brainwashing.


As sad as it is, I believe that you are 100% confident it can't be a supernatural being that created the universe gmroz. Like we have discussed before I think it is sad what a closed mind to other possibilities you have, but to have such a closed mind and offer 0% answer to the question posed, that is truly awful.

You say that religion is "brainwashing", and to an extent I agree and Im sure can be taken to extremes with some cultures and some religious teachings. But to lump everyone who believes in a religion as "brainwashed" I think is insulting to many. Especially those who actively look for answers to questions they have. If anything I would say that is the opposite of brainwashing, it is called learning. Only considering answers that already reinforce your belief( which we have already discussed is exactly what you do) is much more like brainwashing. Science doesnt even consider the possibility of the supernatural, only giving one side of the story, and as Terry Ray already pointed out, by its own laws, Science cannot even prove the foundations of these laws.

I don't know what "holes" in questions you have pointed out, the only thing I have seen is you say "Im 100% sure there's no God" Not what I would consider compelling evidence. And you say these questions are only believed when you are young when you don't have a capacity to see the holes in them. Yet You brought 10 questions which you thought would be the end all to the God debate, since they were the reasons you stopped believing in God. And I quickly found holes in all of them as well, and your a grown man. So to insinuate that Christianity can only hold up to a child's logic, I think is ridiculous, especially considering the questions you have been "brainwashed" with are so easily answered.
 
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buddy

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blgstocks,

You and I both know. We stepped out in faith. We're were told to leap off the cliff and we did as we were told.

"Look! Those two morons are gonna' do it! They're gonna' leap like they were told! Obedient morons! They get what they deserve."

Oh, what a leap!

Praise His holy name!
 

gardenweasel

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reminds me of a conversation i overheard in the super market....

i overheard an iranian women and an american woman conversing in the produce department of the local grocery...the iranian was hefting two large potatoes and exclaiming to the american beside her, "these remind me of my husbands"..

the american was shocked and a bit envious as she replied, "really that big?".....

"no", said the iranian...."that dirty"

and,btw...in an attempt to remain even-handed,i`d like to remind everyone that joos cause traffic jams....
 

JCDunkDogs

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Though I tend to agree with GMROZ, I also agree with the alternative positions.

This reminds me of how the scientists always lose the debates with the creationists, even though they are probably right.
 

buddy

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This reminds me of how the scientists always lose the debates with the creationists, even though they are probably right.

The scientists are woefully wrong.

I realize I can't prove it, but I could care less.

The wisdom of God is kept hidden from the "wise and the prudent".

However, it is made available to all who seek Him through the acceptance of His only begotten son, the resurrected savior of all mankind, Jesus Christ The King.

It requires a leap of faith. But not a big one. Iddy biddy. 'Bout the size of a mustard seed.

All glory, praise and honor to Jesus Christ The King!
 
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IntenseOperator

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reminds me of a conversation i overheard in the super market....

i overheard an iranian women and an american woman conversing in the produce department of the local grocery...the iranian was hefting two large potatoes and exclaiming to the american beside her, "these remind me of my husbands"..

the american was shocked and a bit envious as she replied, "really that big?".....

"no", said the iranian...."that dirty"

:mj07: :mj07: :mj07:

When I was an alter boy, I knew another a lot like you. Kept me laughing all through mass. Especially when I had a week of 6:15 AM'rs.
 

WhatsHisNuts

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Like we have discussed before I think it is sad what a closed mind to other possibilities you have, but to have such a closed mind and offer 0% answer to the question posed, that is truly awful.

Brad: How can you say I'm close-minded???? I grew up a believer. An open mind brought me to where I am today.

You say that religion is "brainwashing".......If anything I would say that is the opposite of brainwashing, it is called learning.
What are you "learning"? You are "learning" that there is only one way. That's crap. You aren't given an opportunity to "learn" about atheism, buddhism, Islam, etc. There is no learning involved, just brainwashing. I wish there was a kinder term, but nothing comes to mind.

Science doesnt even consider the possibility of the supernatural, only giving one side of the story, and as Terry Ray already pointed out, by its own laws, Science cannot even prove the foundations of these laws.
Science considers possibilities, not impossibilities. I've read some of Terry's takes and the philosophies he subscribes, and they are just plain hard to swallow. Very christian science, and very hard to take seriously. If you think Adam & Eve makes more sense than evolution, that's fine, but I think it's kind of crazy.


As for the "10 Questions" I posted, we both know what that was. It was a conversation starter. It is a good way to get people thinking about the absurdity of religion, but that's about it.
 
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