Gambling for a living?

[NySportsfan]

As far as BeantownJim post, lol were you serious about that? what kinda women are you talkin about here, A-quality or what?LOL.....Right now, Im happy where I am, and I much prefer using multiple offshore books from the comfort of my home, as opoosed to dealing with somewhat shady local bookies that are gonna fall by the wayside, i dont like being on credit, although I can control it now, in the past i couldnt, got hit HARD for about 1k in the 2000 SB taking the Ny giants over Balti, just hurt and hurt and hurt, offshore the way to go now with the betting options, and shopping for lines, etc, pinnacle and canbet have 8 cent baseball lines and 10-15 cent ftball and hoops, nothing can beat that.....BeanTown Jim, your not near marblehead are ya? what kinda housing prices u think u could hook me up with if i came down...Im serious, id consider it at some point...all other responses welcome, im sure Ill have some more thoughts later, Im gonna refrain from posting picks, no need to do it really, I know what i can do, and hopefully I can become buds with some of the people "in the know" on these boards, who can handicap with the best of em, and arent bullshitters and are the real deal. Fletch and Nolan I know seem to know the most shit around here, but Im sure lot of you do as these are grt boards....Later
Mike

 

[acehistr8]

NYSF -

Go to college. There is no reason you cannot go to college and bet sports at the same time, in fact with games at night there is no reason not to take classes during the day. Hell bring your stats sheets to class with you. But get a degree first. You need a fallback for the times when you get down on your luck, and believe me those times will come.

Believe me, you may not like working, but I know I enjoy capping/poker playing much more having a steady job and income to fall back on. Since Im not playing full time, Im not worried about whether I hit that next hand or next game to pay rent for the month. I wont even begin to speculate what I think a starting bankroll should be for someone who is doing this full time and has no job or degree.

Even if you're one of the best, even the best hit slow times.

Good luck to you though. An remember, this should be fun. Yes it can be frustrating but at its core it should remain fun. If its not, you shouldnt be doing it.

 

[NySportsfan]

Good reply Acehistr. Your right that you can go to college and 'cap at the same time, but I totally wanna avoid school if I can,lol, unfortunately, the job world values education, even though a lot of what is learned in school is a load of sh*t......That is one option though, but I dont know still if Id have to the time to fully handicap the games which Id need, it takes tremendous amt of time, especially compiling the numbers for baseball day to day, and then inputting them into your spreadsheets, etc, but its work i dont mind. I mean, I just felt out of place in HS, like what the f**k am i doing here, obviously college is more fun though, and you can possibly buillshit and jerk off and still pass and get a degree. still, I dont know if u can put a price on not being in school, and going to meet chicks, etc, and have plenty of time to work.. Another option Im strongly considering is taking a yr OFF, handicapping for a living/caddying for $ on the wkends extra cash, thatd mean doing the football work during the week..And then, seeing how that works out and how the lifestyle is, either deciding to go to college, or not, althoguh it may be tough to go after a 1 yr layoff...Of course, some of the smartest people I know dont have college degrees, but some of em, and some dopes I know have em, u can find ANYTHING in this world, theres plenty of dumb-ass gamblers, but Im sure some educated pros like fletch,nolan,etc who do pretty well, obviously w/a family this is a DIFFERENT animal, but that wouldnt come into play for me for another 5-7yrs at least....I just feel I owe it to myself to try it, of course nothing in life is easy, no shit, and the lifestyle is taxing, you need fukin days off here and there, or you will get burnt out and get pissed at the world..I think by far, the hardest thing would be withstanding the blown saves, and other bad beats in sports, ie bad calls, missed ft's, etc etc, which are BOUND to happen...but again, if u bet baseball 6/7 days a wk.....figure u average 3-5 plays a day including tls and run lines, u hit a decent % and mostly play dogs, u can rake in 6-700+ a wk on decent wks w/100 dollar unit, of course some weeks youll lose though, thats a given..Fletch, also wondering how many ppl in nevada do this do u think and really do well, Id think not many, I prefer offshore anyway..Also, how bad are some areas in LV, I was thinking of visiting at some point, but a little scared, heard some stories about bad areas, robberies, etc...Maybe im just a pu$$y,LOL, just dont want any shit, Im sure theres some tough areas w/drugs, etc..Thanks again all, keep comments rollin, wanna keep this threaed open for a while till I think of a new one
Mike

 

[acehistr8]

With $100 units, what happens when you go 20, 25, 30 games with only a few wins? Trust me, you will hit bad runs. And if you chase or double down as people are known to do, this gets magnified.

By not going to school, you epitimize what in poker we call "having no outs." If capping doesnt work out 6 months down the line where are you? Broke, no job, no college.

Start with one class at a community college if you dont think its for you. One class at a time is better than no class. Believe me, Im putting myself through business school, I still work and I still love capping games.

Critical concept to master in gambling, always leave yourself outs.

 

[NySportsfan]

Thats a good point actually, maybe take like a couple of statistics courses, to learn binomial distribution and shit, and see how numbers work, could be cool, If I could relate it to gambling at all and odds and such, I just dont want to waste anymore time learning about biology,chemistry, etc etc, just lifes too short for that,lol unless i wanted to be a chemist....Your right, with 30 gms @100 unit, u need like 17-13+, or more gms, during college hoops, weds and sat i have a load of gms though, usually like 9-11 each day, so probly would be more than 30 for the week, but during baseball 30 would be a lot ya know, so it depends...C.College is an option and take a few there, better than nothing..Im not a poker player, never took it up, I know how to count cards somewhat well in Bjack, but caisnos have cracked down..I still feel offshore is the wave of the future, crunch all the numbers every day, shit will happen though.Bus,school you mentioned is good, my folks etc have pushed me towards pursuing that, I just dont have the desire to go through 4 yrs of undergrad, even if it is not as hard as advertsised....tricky situation, I wanted to cap first, and g-d forbid something happens, and I decide I cant win or am struggling, I can go to school after a yr, but not sure....I think, if you reinvest some profits as u go, maybe re-evaluate every few mo's, ull end up doing quite nicely for yourself, not to mention the great tax wrtie offs.where else, can u deduct tickets to games, trips to vegas, etc for "Business"..Maybe sounds too good, Im sure its a f**kin day in day out grind, ur gonna lose, theres no doubt about it, its just all about how you handle the losses and your mindsight, always need to stay fresh, thx for the insights
Mike

 

[Lockport7]

Hey man,

Just thought I should post a little reply to this topic since of course I am one of the younger guys of this forum and have been posting and been lurking here for over 3 1/2 years, I don't want to take anything away from what your doing because a few years ago I was that same kid not knowing what I wanted to do with my life and wanted to do something I love , something in sports. I turned 21 last tuesday, and as much as I understand your intention I would suggest you go to college man, plan for your future, if you could make $30,000 a year after a degree and you still wanna do the capping take that money and grow as a capper, for a year I tried to do this by myself working at some shitty place making shit to support my roll and its not worth the wear and tear..... Your not going to learn anything by being in the game full fledged right away. The emotional swings were crazy, i couldnt separate gaming from family and friends. I have been betting since I was 14. I went on a hot streak when I was 18 and got my account up to $13,000 to realize that it wasn't what I wanted and these streaks were not worth it because eventually streaks work there way in opposite direcitons and it caught up to me..... I am a lot like you, I don't like school at all, never did in high school, loved sports, loved gambling, but a future with no schooling wasnt worth it to me, so I enrolled in college and even though I got 2.12 GPA in high school , I am getting a 3.9 in Politics at Eastern Illinois and happy to say that I have met the love of my life, am getting experience as a capper and as a person.... Live life son, don't waste your youth doing this solely, its fun i understand i love it too but there is more to life then this, plan for your future and stay real.

 

[acehistr8]

Amen brother...

 

[ZigZag]

I am doing the math here and I am wondering where you get the 40K profit from.

You say that you will be playing 2000 + games a year. I will use 3000 in my example because the more you play the more you win if you win at 54%.

In order to get that profit I am coming up with $500 units.

I know you will be betting bases and the lines are different, but for this example I will use a -110 line.

Example

3000 X 54% = 1620 wins X $500 profit each = $810,000

3000 X 46% = 1380 losses X $550 loss each = 759,000

810,000 - 759,000 = $51,000 profit

Here we get 51,000 in profit. This is with 3000 games played in the year (8.2 per day).
So in this example if you actually play $500 units and 3000 games and hit 54% you would make a little more than the 40K you stated earlier.

Here is the question I have for you. Do you have a $25,000 bankroll? That is the only way you can bet $500 units and have them be 2% plays.

If you have access to 25,000 then keep on doing whatever it is that allows you to have 25,000 extra in cash.

You can see that if you use a $100 unit you would only make a little over 10k for the year.

I guess you could also say that your bankroll wil be increasing so a 2% unit will also increase, but this really doesn't work because at some point you need to take out the profits to live on.

Maybe I am just stupid and my math is all wrong here. I agree with everyone else that you should have a back up plan.

I think you said you will still be at home for a while so I would suggest that you give it a shot with small $ units and see if you can make a profit over a year.

I wish you luck with whatever you decide to do.

 

[NySportsfan]

Thanks LP7SLIP for the excellent response...you sound like I am now, LOL....I understand everything your saying, you sound exactly like me, when u were 18....Gambling tends to isolate you a little bit, which can be unpleasant....Your right of course, there is more to life than this, someday I want to meet the love of my life as well, and college is a good place to do so, after all, i want to have kids, and a family too, what fun is it too live single all your life and just bet all the time, it must take a toll on you. Yea my hs average is like an 83 or so, but I got 1200 sat's, so folks think i can do the work, I just am not sure If I want to.......It is a grinding process, your not kidding, and theres more to life than gambling, as well as to sports themselves, it just seems to immerse a lot of my time and thoughts, because I love it, as you seem to do....I may take a year off to try this, as well as caddy on the side, and see how I stand at that point, I think Ill have the common sense to go to college if it is not working out well, and Im not happy, but again, Im not sure yet, working on a place to live, and other financial things, so we'll see...send me ur email adress maybe so i can chat later with you.....
ZigZag, Your right, I exaggerated a bit....with an $100 unit, you can NOT hit 54% and make a living, your correct...I was thinking of hitting 56-57%, which would be tough, but attainable with enough work i strongly feel.This would probably bring in 20-30k a yr for first yr, which isnt good, granted..but, if you reinvest some of that year after yr into your bank, within a few yrs, youll have that 25k bankroll, which you need to bet $500 per @2%.I think you can even get away with having 15k and betting 300 units @2%, as long as u can hit 56%, anything less, it may not be enough...Anyway, who makes much more than 20-30k coming outta college anyway nowadays, besides lawyers, engineers, etc, and specialists, the job market sucks right now......20-25-30k sucks, yes, and u cant live on it for more than a few yrs, and definitely cant support more thsn yourself on it, but assuming you find some outside income and continue to re-invest in the bank, it should be fine......and, I was thinking about 2500 a yr, not 3k.....and, you also missed one thing about the -110.....canbet, and pinnacle, 2 books I use ALOT, VERY often have -106, -107, -108 on basketball and football games, as well as 8 cent baseball lines! you only configured -110 for everything except baseball, this is only a small difference overrall, but 2 cents a bet or 3 cents a bet is something.send me ur email adress also if you could, and thanks for the good wishes, appreciate it, keep the thoughts coming if u can.....Mike

 

[Lockport7]

NySportsFan,

I liked hearing back from you and although I can't send you my email address on the forums I can give you my instant messenger name for AOL which is LP7SLIP. There is no other meaning behind it and its not an email address just IM thingy i am on when i am on the computer.... Message me sometime or have jack give me your email. Look forward to heraing from you

 

[theGibber1]

NySportsfan,

i hated school also, but i got through it....and i was able to get a good job with good pay..now then, there are people at my job without a degree who have the same job as i do. with the same pay as me. but, they have been with the company 5+yrs or longer. they started low and worked their way up... b/c i had a degree i was able to start in the middle..

in other words not going to college does not mean you cant be successful, it simpy means you might have to work a little harder.

i have many friends who never went to school. Most are doing well. One worked his way up through AT&T and is in a high paying management position. Another buddy of mine started as a cook at OutBack Steakhouse, worked hard, worked his way up, now hes a proprietor of his own restaurant . he makes a hell of alot more money than i do!
but he works very hard. Are you a hard worker?

plumbers, contractors, electricians all make good to great money. but they work their asses off.


hell my wifes dad has a degree but a pointless one, (letters)

couldnt get a job w/ that so he went to work for an oil company,now hes a Phukn VP and is rich rich rich..

this is America you can be successful
without a degree, but i think a degree gives an advantage over people looking for the same job.

so if you dont want to go to school great. but get a real job for awhile.. One with opportunity to move up the ladder a bit.

Then after youve got job security and have saved up some scratch give capping a real shot... i promise you that after a loosing day, getting up, going to work and getting paid makes you feel better...

also when you have a good job and a bit of security, you dont have to worry about house payments, bills extc. b/c the money you are useing to gamble with is your extra income.. if you loose it, it doesnt break you.

tell the golf shop to take a hike, and go get a real job...
get a good paycheck, handle the important shit, and use whats left over to have some fun betting on the Yanks..


good luck

 

[Spock]

The Age Old fascination of living off Gambling and Betting which strikes young kids has struck again.

Mike,

how do you intend to survive ? Where do you think your bankroll money will come from ?

If you think you should get into gambling for a living to avoid going to school you should tell your parents and they will definitely give you their support :nono:

I would love to meet the parents who will be happy and jump with joy when their 18 year old kid who lives with them announces to them that he is going to get into gambling full time to make a living. Instead of taking the time to show them how much % you need to win and lose please show them how much $$$ they may save if you avoid going to school. Mebbe then they may allow you 2 stay at home and gamble.


Note : This is nothin personal against ya buddy. So dont get upset I used parents .. its just an example

Why dont we do an experiment. Beantownjim is already gonna make 60 posts and show his winners. Why dont you give ur picks in one thread and show many winner you can get after 200 plays. If you manage to get into the black then I am sure the fine cappers here will guide you into how to live off gambling money.

Advice:

Go to school or learn a trade. Get some money. Then if you really want to try out gambling full time do it. I assure you in 10 years of working hard you will not wanna gamble full time. (Note: I think the pressure and hard work one has to put into handicapping may be even more hard work than regular job)

Its not like the movies now is it. Gambling sounds and looks fascinating but its the fastest way to be stuck in your parents home and living off them. Now some people do manage to do it and we have fine cappers here who had indeed done it. But as they had said and will say again the ride has been anything but smooth and only with experience will the curves and the up's and down's decrease.

How much is your bankroll ? What is the ROI (Return on Investment) you think you can get. If you have 20000 $$ to start off with and wanna make $40000 that is tripling your money in a year ($40000 profit + 20000 principle). If you CAN DO THIS please contact all the companies that are in debt and the banks who are writing off goodwill loans and they will be happy to loan you some money which you can triple also in a year.

To sum it up listen to the advice of the good people here on the forum. Study, work hard and get a good job and have some steady income. Then bet part time on the sidelines. Overconfidence and Thinking that you can easily beat the system has led to the downfall of many.


Conclusion: Forget getting rich through these means and do what most of the population around the world does : GO TO SCHOOL AND THEN FIND A JOB.


Good luck in what ever ya do but keep us posted on your progress. If you are successful please let me know and I will get some venture capitalists to invest in you and make money.


Cheers !!!
Spock

 

[NySportsfan]

thegibber1, excellent post....Your right, not having a degree doesnt mean u wont be successful im life, youll just have to start lower down on thodem pole of course, your right....I just think, since I can make 2-300 in cash at the golf course caddying, and maybe 5-600 a week gambling, which isnt a given of course, then thats a decent living carved out, eventually ditching caddying If I invest some of the profits...Of Course gambling is far from a sure thing though, and as far as what u said about ur friends etc who are doing well, I believe that. I have a cousin who hated school, dropped out, now has helluva lot more money than my dad, who has a degree, my cuz is at high advertising position, just took him a long time to advance...I just dont see the purpose of school, and it seems like a waste of time.Forget plumbers, etc, thats just not my cup of tea, that technical stuff......Of course, its great to have steady income coming in each wl, but gambling, u also have many tax breaks, etc etc.....
as far as Spocks post......I wouldnt be living at home, would rent a room/floor in a buddies house, not the best area, but it would do, probly would be 3-400 a month, but thats w/o food, etc....I think need to make 600+ a wk to make any kind of living when ur single.Of course my parents hate gambling, theyre under the impression, its a suckers thing, everybody loses, not one person wins, theres no skill involved, all of which is not true, just read some of fletchers and nolans posts on these forums....I will take you up on your offer of 200 picks..but in return, if I come in the black, I want fletcher, or someone on here that bets for a living, to give me some details on how much $ to draw a week, and some tax things on what to write off, how to set up a corporation and stuff, and stuff about credtit and things, and how to live off the money.....Spock, tell me where to start the thread and what to call it, i assume on baseball boards.....Im sure most of you are right with ur advice, your older than me of course...I mean, Im just not cut out for school like lot of you probably werent, and just looking to try something in my life and see If I can make it, if I cant, I can always go to school a year late, wouldnt kill me, and could still work, just would be a yr behind...Talk to you all later, spock tell me where i should post thread.200 picks is fine

 

[JJP]

I've been gambling for 20 years and have made one attempt at gambling full-time. That was in 1997 after I got laid off from my job. My area of expertise was thoroughbred racing. You have no idea how much work this involved. A couple of hours handicapping that days card, get to the track, run down to the paddock for every race, take trip notes on both tracks. Drive home then tape the racing replay show and watch each race over numerous times. Then start handicapping the next days card. It was never ending. I feel good I showed a $8500 profit for the 6 months I did it but I was completely burning out. I was still seriously undercapitalized and working up to 12 hours a day. One has to have a considerable bankroll to really do it right. I went back to the working world, but yes, in the back of my mind, I believe I will try it again full-time, hopefully within the next 5 years.

 

[NySportsfan]

JJP, thanks for insights..personally, I think its much harder to beat horse racing than sports, due to the # of horses in each race, and Im just simply not that good at it, nor do I go to the track much..Frankly, theres much much less people who make livings at horses than sports, b/c its so difficult day in and day out definitely.....Your very right about the work involved, I spend a decent amt of time studying baseball every day, and hoops when it is gfoing on, but if I bet for a living, id get up every morning, read the local newspapers sports for a few hrs, then read all the stats, make up little matchup sheets, watch the lines, look at pitchers stats, input everything into my spreadsheets, its a tremendous amt of work, but id like to take the challenge, Im convinced u can out work the bookmaker if your good enough, its very difficult though, nothing in life is easy or guranteed besides death and taxes..take care all
Mike

 

[Spock]

Actually the picks idea was for yourself. You have to know what you are getting into right.

regarding being older am 5-6 years older than ya but have lived alone since 18. So had to work very hard and can say nothin in life is easy ..

I had a friend who went your way. Well after a year he came back home and I loaned him around $2000 to pay off his mastercard and visa bills as they were charging him around 24%.
Rest he got from his dad but needless to say he was grounded and his parents felt let down.

Not a lot of money but I think I was the only guy who stood behind him when he tried to come back from financial/mental ruin. When it comes to money you will be surprised how many people disappear (and not to blame them .. no one has extra money anymore). He went back to school and he graduated this year. Looking for job now and when he finds one he will pay me back. I have not asked him for the money as I know his situation but he has not gone to casino for almost 2 years now.

Dont wanna see ya bouncing around like a yo yo.
Most of the situations in my mail were hypothetical. You gotta decide what is best for ya in the end.

Try some trade if u cannot go to school.

Cheers !!!
Spock

 

[Dutchmasta]

Pro Gambling...can it be done?

Pro Gambling...can it be done?

NySportsFan, I feel the same way as you about this whole gambling thing. I can agree on a lot of your thoughts towards school and whatnot. I'm only 19. I went broke like 6 months ago. I was in debt like $2K on credit cards and personal loans. But soon after I was fortunate to find a way to make a buck. Since then I've climbed out of debt and have actually accumulated about $7K and growing.
I would be damned if I were to lose that on betting on sports or any type of gambling. I've gotten to the point where I would want to book the bets or work for a bookie. Fast forward 6 months to the present. After not making a sports bet for 6 months I decided to. I lost which is part of the game. I have actually kept records of my bets and my poker playing for the past month and a half. Sports bets -866 Online Poker -1229 at low limits. I guess to sum it up like what most people have been saying without trying to sound discouraging or repetitive is always have outs, always keep your options open. I went to school for like a month, but I dropped because I just wasn't focused. There is a lot more I could say, but anyways if you would wanna discuss anything, my email address is thedutchmasta@yahoo.com and my AOL IM is TheDaiLo. This goes for anyone else too even if you feel like lecturing a youngin.

I could explain myself better if I were to talk on a more personal level. Writing just ain't my cup of tea although I would like to improve on it...now I'm rambling.

 

[Dutchmasta]

I found out I won a bet that I thought I lost. So that would change my sports bet figure to -356 instead of -866. What a difference!

 

[SLAM DUNK]

A lot to mention here. First off having 100 guys tell you to go to school and forget the dream isn't going to work. If it is in your heart to do this, the only way you will get it out of your heart is to actually make an attempt. One of the good things about forums like this is that you can get great input from people who have been in your shoes. Great advice has been plentiful in this thread, however I am very well aware that you will have to learn yourself through actual experience but maybe the input here will help guide you to making the right decision faster.

Now lets talk about gambling. First class you should take is STATS.
If you do not know how to create and manage databases I would learn that as well. Also finance and profesional gambling are basically the same thing, so a finance course should be in your immediate plans. Record keeping is an absolute must, so create a bet journal and a bet log. Now the big problem, THE LEARNING CURVE. You are always learning. Unfortunately every lesson is a costly one and down goes your bankroll with it. Of course you do not have much of a br anyhow so in your case there goes the rent money......You are 18, I guarantee you that if you keep a solid bet journal(an in depth analysis of why you make each bet) that in 4 years you will look back at that bet journal and on a large number of your current plays say to yourself "why did I make that bet". So even if somtime down the line you meet your projection of 54% over 2000 games a years which is a mighty task indeed, to assume you are there now is overly optimistic to say the least. I will caution you also that as you learn the dream will perpetuate. Easy to say that I will try it out for a year and if I have a bad year, I go to school. But a liklier scenario is that you struggle for the year but after making some key discoveries your year closes on a huge up note and "well maybe one more year"....................

That being said I am not going to tell you that you cannot or will not be able to do so. You will learn whether you can or can't on your own. What I will tell you is that the road you are choosing is the wrong one. Here is why. Let's assume that somewhere down the line you are capable of doing exactly what you project: 54% over 2000 games. That is 1080-920 over 2000 games lets assume the 11/10 +70 units (expected profit) for the year. Now we go back to unit size. Well as we know unit size is a function of bankroll. 2% of bankroll is 1 unit. Bankroll must be actual cash on hand. There is a reasonable chance that you will at one point need every dime of it(or close to it) so to assume that you will start off winning from the start and play on a fraction of the bankroll is a road to ruin. Now lets go back to your expected +70 units a year. At $100 a game that is +$7000. Hardly a living. At 10 dimes a game that is +$700,000 a year. Same amount of work and the difference between a minor income and becoming quite rich. Of course how do you get a bankroll of $500,000? By growing a bankroll! How do you grow a bankroll? By having a steady income stream to pay the bills, and having a bankroll which you never touch for anything. Much easier said than done, but you can do it if you get a good job, do not let the big profits dictate your lifestyle, live off of your salary and refuse to dip into your gambling(investment) capital until you reach your target.

So here are your options.

1) Go to school, work hard, get a good job, live within your the confines of your salary, actively pursue sports betting on the side, grow a bankroll and one day if you can hit 54% over 2000 games a year on average you will likely be within 5 to 6 years of being a millionaire. If you never get there, you still have a good job and a future in front of you.

2) Quit school, attempt to grind out a living gambling using all your profits to pay living expenses, working a side crap job and hope that will get you through the dry spells, set yourself up for a life full of extreme stress, doubt (ever heard the phrase scared money loses-there is a lot of truth to it-when you start feeling the pinch of the dollar, your decision making goes down the tubes), ups and downs and of course disappointment(as just when you think you have this down then comes that nasty bad run).


The bottom line is do not give up the dream(but do not obsess over it either), just learn to be patient. Choose the road that will give you a future even if gambling does not work out as planned and will give you the opportunity to truly capitalize on your expertise should you reach your goal. I will add this, if you really would like to give sports betting a solid one year "go", save up some capital, add it to your bankroll take a very light load at a community college as suggested and do it. The experience will be invaluable. Make sure that you stay within the confines of actual bankroll and remember your objective is meeting your goals(+70 units for the year) even if just $100 a game. If you fall far short you know you have a ways to go, if you meet your goal, come back here next year for part 2. Either way you will have a lot better view of where you currently are.

 

[NySportsfan]

Slamdunk, I could not have said it any better, you hit the whole topic right on the nose..especially your first paragraph, your right, in that no matter how many people tell you to go to school, ultimately, I, and others, feel they need to see for themselves. Of course the people on these threads are mostly veteran gamblers, not all of them good cappers, but lot of them are, who have been through the trenches of gambling and of life, so I respect everyones opinion. Re: your 2nd par, that sounds like an excellent idea as well, that I will look into. If I just take stats classes at a local CC, that would give me a good help in working on spreadsheets, databases, etc as im sure the teacher would be familiar with those things and you can probably ask them after class as well..I gurantee Id enjoy going to class If thats what i went for, I dont wanna go toa 4 yr school, and waste my time sitting though biology, english, etc, I already have a good vocab, got 640 on my sat verbal, basically from reading the paper through the years and such, I honestly feel I wont benefit from school, I feel im a self-taught guy basically, hs is enough education for me, just didnt like it, as long as you know basic math, etc. u do need to learn stats though.. Id hafta look into what classes are available, furhter, I wish i lived in nevada, I heard southern nevada university has classes on sports betting, taught by pros, thatd be cool.....Re:Journal, Im going to start keeping the record of the date,wager,book,side/total, dog/fav, etc so i can track em, not gonna write reasons next to every pick though, but for baseball it takes long time to compile all the stats then have to analyse them, and still could lose even with the numbers, baseball betting can be very taxing on the mind sometimes, and very frustrating when something unexplained happens to lose you money.... Re:the bankroll......the bankroll, Im basically starting clean this football season, spreading my money into a few accts probly 3-5, b/c working this summer, and just dont have a lot of time to bet baseball daily....Your right though, you need a side job of somde kind, or other money saved up, if you have a 10k bankroll, and lose for the first few wks which could happen like u said, might not win off the bat....Then, you cant start drawing money out of your bankroll I think you said, and I agree, would need some money coming in, or saved up for the bad times, to make ends meet.....Your right also, that Im more likely to say, I learned some things and keep betting, the further removed from school one is, probably the harder it is to go......Also gd pt re:the 2 options, I think thats a problem with number 2.....I think, maybe if im having a tough week, Ill be more apt to force gms, trying to get the money back, which wuld be counterproductive, need to stay within confines of your research cant go digging for plays that just dont exist......this is a major problem, I agree.....but, i still believe, the major key is keeping the 2% the same, then u have one less thing to worry about, and can focus on winners....of course, tax issues, and other financial stuff is secondary, the winning is the important thing, and paying bills...thanks for the great takes everyone, appreciate it

Mike