Hard to believe

DOGS THAT BARK

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What I find hard to believe--Is elected politicians who are suppose to be current on things refer to lady who has desk job at Langley since birth of her twins 5+ years ago as a "covert op" and want prison time for anyone leaking her name to press in sake of national security--yet have no prob with people leaking secret places we keep prisonors--means we search for radiation (dirty bombs) or interception of terrorist chat.
--believe they have removed all doubt on which party would keep us safer.
GOP should be thanking them as they have put them in no lose situation come 08. If we don't get hit again--no one will want to fix what isn't broke--if we do get hit again--guess who pays the piper for trying to weaken our defences.
 

StevieD

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In fairness to the right the figures on that poll are most likely inflated because if it is anything like it is here the same guy probably answered the question three times!
 

UGA12

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Between The Hedges
The bottom line is, with the complete lack of proof or evidence other than past usage :mj07: :mj07: :mj07:


I dont agree with the way everything has taken place in this war, but I think this is one of the things most supporters of the war have a hard time understanding.
 
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Englishman

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I must be one of the really dumb ones as well _ I thought he had WMDs....of course so did Putin, Chirac, Blair, Kennedy, Kerry, Gore, Hilliary, ....we are all so dumb compared to you, MC.
 

neverteaseit

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you know i am amazed at how most people are influenzed by our so called unbiased media back home. I have read this section from time to time and while some have good arguments some of you are just totally lost and most of you would change your minds on a subject depending on the weather.

i lil known fact from some of us so called soldeirs here. saddam had WMD'S. how could someone who has been brainwashed like me by our armed services come to such a conclusion. well i pounded the streets and villages of baghdad for nearly 7 months. which if some on this so called board of experts have done in the past then they would argue the point. the one thing nearly all iraq's say is that he did have WMD'S. most have said they where either buried or moved to syria or iran. so now i guess along with me, that nearly 90% of the iraqi's are dumbasses also. so you can see now that democracy is working here :).

i had an interperter at the time who i became very good friends with, me and him talked constantly about the saddam era of iraq.
what i have learned from him has been nothing short of unreal. if you ever get a chance to talk with an actual iraqi your opinion may change on a lot of things.

many say we have not found any WMD'S in iraq which is true. does that mean he never had them? no. we know for a fact that he did at some time when he used them on his own people which many may think is untrue. but it did happpen. at the same time it is not like they are looking for them in an area the size of a football field. there are many regions of iraq that we have not even begun to look at. we for one don't have the manpower. just trying to train the iraqi army and control baghdad is problem enough.

but one thing i know for sure is that if saddam would have had the chance to use them on the U.S. he would have. now i for one wouldn't like to take that chance. what he would have been capable of doing would amaze most. especially if it would have been a biological or chemical weapon, instead of hijacking airplanes.

either way it was a losing proposition for whomever was in office. if we had done nothing and something did happen what would most be saying now? probably just the opposite of what they are saying now. but we all have seen what happens when you fail to react (9/11). the american mentality is mostly the same it will never happen to us. well if you still think this way then you yourself are clueless to how most feel about the u.s. and our way of life.

is this war justified. to be honest with you, that i cannot answer. i can see reasons for yes and no. everytime i lose a fellow soldier i beckon to ask myelf. why? but then i ask myself another ? is it worth it. that answer is yes. i have volunteered to do another tour for 1 year thats how strongly i feel about what we are doing here. i see the progress and the benefits that can result from our sacrifices.


is there corruption and other under the table b.s. going on. yes. someone is fleecing the people of americas taxes. but before you point to one side you may want to look at both. neither is as innocent as they want you to believe. do a lil investigation into what contractors are getting for meals here. you may be shocked.

i have learned one thing in life and that is, politics and religion are 2 things you will never ever be able to argue with people about. this is why i have refrained from even posting in this section. plus the effort and passion some argue with on this subect is amazing sometimes because alot don't even put this much effort into their normal jobs.

but i will tell you all the same thing i tell my 2 daughters everytime i talk on the phone to them and they ask why i am still here. i do it for them and their future. i believe the world is a better place with one less dictator around. but as stated before i am just another dumbass in the crowd of many.
 
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UGA12

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neverteaseit said:
you know i am amazed at how most people are influenzed by our so called unbiased media back home. I have read this section from time to time and while some have good arguments some of you are just totally lost and most of you would change your minds on a subject depending on the weather.

i lil known fact from some of us so called soldeirs here. saddam had WMD'S. how could someone who has been brainwashed like me by our armed services come to such a conclusion. well i pounded the streets and villages of baghdad for nearly 7 months. which if some on this so called board of experts have done in the past then they would argue the point. the one thing nearly all iraq's say is that he did have WMD'S. most have said they where either buried or moved to syria or iran. so now i guess along with me, that nearly 90% of the iraqi's are dumbasses also. so you can see now that democracy is working here :).

i had an interperter at the time who i became very good friends with, me and him talked constantly about the saddam era of iraq.
what i have learned from him has been nothing short of unreal. if you ever get a chance to talk with an actual iraqi your opinion may change on a lot of things.

many say we have not found any WMD'S in iraq which is true. does that mean he never had them? no. we know for a fact that he did at some time when he used them on his own people which many may think is untrue. but it did happpen. at the same time it is not like they are looking for them in an area the size of a football field. there are many regions of iraq that we have not even begun to look at. we for one don't have the manpower. just trying to train the iraqi army and control baghdad is problem enough.

but one thing i know for sure is that if saddam would have had the chance to use them on the U.S. he would have. now i for one wouldn't like to take that chance. what he would have been capable of doing would amaze most. especially if it would have been a biological or chemical weapon, instead of hijacking airplanes.

either way it was a losing proposition for whomever was in office. if we had done nothing and something did happen what would most be saying now? probably just the opposite of what they are saying now. but we all have seen what happens when you fail to react (9/11). the american mentality is mostly the same it will never happen to us. well if you still think this way then you yourself are clueless to how most feel about the u.s. and our way of life.

is this war justified. to be honest with you, that i cannot answer. i can see reasons for yes and no. everytime i lose a fellow soldier i beckon to ask myelf. why? but then i ask myself another ? is it worth it. that answer is yes. i have volunteered to do another tour for 1 year thats how strongly i feel about what we are doing here. i see the progress and the benefits that can result from our sacrifices.


is there corruption and other under the table b.s. going on. yes. someone is fleecing the people of americas taxes. but before you point to one side you may want to look at both. neither is as innocent as they want you to believe. do a lil investigation into what contractors are getting for meals here. you may be shocked.

i have learned one thing in life and that is, politics and religion are 2 things you will never ever be able to argue with people about. this is why i have refrained from even posting in this section. plus the effort and passion some argue with on this subect is amazing sometimes because alot don't even put this much effort into their normal jobs.

but i will tell you all the same thing i tell my 2 daughters everytime i talk on the phone to them and they ask why i am still here. i do it for them and their future. i believe the world is a better place with one less dictator around. but as stated before i am just another dumbass in the crowd of many.


:iagree: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: And God Bless You for your service
 

Roger Baltrey

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Neverteaseit,

If you believe what your were told then we better mobilize to invade both Iran and Syria. By the way, you will find in upcoming years that Iran has greater capability to produce "weapons of mass destruction" than Iraq ever did. And their Prime Minister (or whatever title he goes by) has proclaimed that he wants to burn Israel to the ground. Don't be surprised if Israel uses this as provocation to launch a strike against the Iranian Nuclear facility.
 

neverteaseit

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i don't know what you are referring too in which you say, if i believe what i am told. not at anytime has the military told me since i have been here that we are hunting for WMD's but if you are referring to the iraqi people saying he had them, then my answer would be yes. i think they would know a lil bit more on this subject than you or i.

and yes iran is a realistic threat that none should take lightly. does that mean we invade. no! unless they really screw up somehwere. syria and iran should be pressured by sanctions and from the un security council which by the way is a joke. and i highly doubt isreal will do anything unless they are forced too which is highly unlikely.

alrighty then i have spoken my 2 cents and that is it. got more important things to do tonight. out!
 

IntenseOperator

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Awesome Neverteasit :clap:

This thread should be "stickied" to the top of the forum for the next year.

Monday morning geniouses here can read it every time they come and post poll nembers :mj07: or the TRAGICALLY DUMB (retired) professional whiners can get some reality into their lives when they come here to start another whimpering thread about how horrible America is. The "newbies" that have started posting in this forum over the last year (newbies my ass) can use the insight from someone in the thick of things over there giving an honest opinion.

I know how much this irks the left here, but a little more attention to the small world (outside of China :mj07: ) we live in from the tail chasing theif that was in office previous to this administration would have went a long way to easing the inevitable confrontation with the nasty element of scum crawling on the planet.
 

IntenseOperator

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Englishman said:
I must be one of the really dumb ones as well _ I thought he had WMDs....of course so did Putin, Chirac, Blair, Kennedy, Kerry, Gore, Hilliary, ....we are all so dumb compared to you, MC.

It always amazes me when a solid post like this never gets a response from the left.

Guess it easy to distant one self at a moments notice.

Works for me at the end of the day.

For all the ripping many take here from the left, they do seem to respond to everything (maybe a bit over zealously :) ). How a simple and to the point post like this receives no attention shows lack of spine or TRAGIC DUMBNESS :s4:
 

StevieD

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So you are saying all those guys were right bout WMD but wrong about everything else?
 

kosar

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IntenseOperator said:
It always amazes me when a solid post like this never gets a response from the left.

Guess it easy to distant one self at a moments notice.

Works for me at the end of the day.

For all the ripping many take here from the left, they do seem to respond to everything (maybe a bit over zealously :) ). How a simple and to the point post like this receives no attention shows lack of spine or TRAGIC DUMBNESS :s4:

Please. You read in here enough to know that posts similar or identical to Englishmans have been responded to at least 50 times. It gets repetitive and boring to respond to the exact same irrelevant thing over and over.

By irrelevant I mean that at that exact time(shortly after 9/11), it did not matter whether Saddam still had nerve gas from the late 80's. Our highest priority should not have been Saddam. There is, and was, no evidence that he was going to use these supposed WMD on anybody, let alone America.

Countless other countries have nerve gas and chemical agents. Countries that actually foster terrorism. What exactly made Iraq so dangerous, with or without WMD?

A top official in the CIA said that the Kurds were killed by Iranian gas in 1988, so even THAT is questionale. You have idiots like Palehose continuing to say that he gassed 400,000 people. He MAY have gassed 5,000 people caught in the middle of a war with Iran, although there is strong evidence that it was Iranian gas.

Anybody who thinks he spirited all these stockpiles to Syria or Iran STILL has not grasped the dynamics in the Middle East. That's simply ridiculous.

I guess I fell into the trap and responded with a post similar to posts that i've made at least 6 times (ironically i've never got a direct response to my points).

There was nothing special about Englishmans post. Almost daily somebody posts that stuff. Neo-cons trying buttress a point by quoting liberals. Yawn.
 

Roger Baltrey

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Hey Intense,

You have some interesting comments but why is everyone the "left". What the hell is that? If someone doesn't agree with any Rush Limagaugh propaganda. Lots of people don't fall into neat little categories as you would like to label them.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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Countless other countries have nerve gas and chemical agents. Countries that actually foster terrorism. What exactly made Iraq so dangerous, with or without WMD?

Just my opinion Matt but believe we needed to disrupt the onging flagrant building,training and santuaries of terrorist and considering Saddam had 10 years of of failing to comply with resolutions-shooting at planes ect--it was the most logical place to make a stand--maybe not enough reasons for some but more reasons than anywhere else. Don't know how Iraq will turn out but one thing has been accomplished we now haqve several allies in middle east joining in fight we never had before and there is not on place on earth--wih exceptions of small remote areas in Africa that they can train openly. I agree with you that we paid and are paying a heavy price but I certainly like picture of middle east now compared to before--can't ever remember any country there previously having huge demonstrations "against" Alquada. It was matter of time till something had to be done in middle east--and I couldn't think of better place to initiate it.

Nevertease It. Saw your post in early am but didn't want to cover your post with reply.
Thanks Tons Brother--and keep your head down and stay off the roads.
Despite lots of things you read negative on war and some post here I can assure you most (here anyway)are behind you 100% even if they are against war.
 
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IntenseOperator

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kosar said:
Please. You read in here enough to know


Anybody who thinks he spirited all these stockpiles to Syria or Iran STILL has not grasped the dynamics in the Middle East. That's simply ridiculous.

.

Kosar

I come here once in a while now. I don't find that much ever gets accomplished in this forum and there's hardly anything entertaining going on. I just end up coming across in a bad light. Especially when you see people come into threads and bring comments that have absolutely nothing to do with what I said (see Baldtry and Stevie above). Or you get the standard posts from retired cranks or guys that have hard ons for polls but it's ok for them to label people "Tragically dumb" (1st post in this thread that the labelling police Baldtry I guess missed).

As far as the stockpiles....
read Neverteaseit's posts. I believe they involve responses on this from people VERY MUCH involved in the Middle East.

Guess that was something missed as well.
 

StevieD

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IO, you are actually surprised that nothing gets solved on these board?. I find that kind of surprising. I mean, you would think, that one as gifted as you would have known from the start that nothing gets solved on these boards.
 

Chadman

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A few comments to Palehose's commentary:


Gee one instance of this post WW2 would be nice moron wtf are you talking about ??? ....really sniffing glue is bad for you !!!

One of the instances I am referring to is the use of phosphorous powder in Iraq. Used to illluminate the battlefield, anyone getting caught underneath this illumination ended up with their skin burned off. That's just one for you.

To stupid to understand that those pictures of covered vehicals going from Iraq to Syria probably had WMD's arent ya ??? gee they only had month's to prepare for it and move it out of the country . than again their is the other 30 great reasons to remove Saddam from power but we need not go into those because the left only wants to magnifie what cannot be proven ....ya we know they moved all their cotton candy to syria right ???? god are you dumb !!!

I allow for the possibility that things were moved in advance of the war. So what? This does not prove anything, some trucks went into Syria, reportedly. Does not say what was in them, where they went, etc. Were they like the supposed traveling weapons trucks that were proven not to be after looking at them - after the administration told us they were WMD vehicles? Why did the administration not pursue that? If we supposedly knew where these WMD's were - Rumsfeld said we did - why didn't we do anything about it? Why didn't we dispatch the inspectors to those positions? They were there. What kept the administration from sharing that specific intelligence that would have proven their case for war with those dedicated to finding them? Have you stopped to think about that? And I am dumb?

Gee moron the types of WMD's used in the past by Saddam our troops were prepared for plus Saddam knew he could use you morons as tools if he got them out of the country and he was 100% correct . These evil dictator types that are compleately out gunned are a lot smarter than your brain can handle . They know morons like you are their best allies and their greatest chance of survival is the Liberal and the Liberal Media types . See these people actually understand how many times the Liberals helped them throughout history IE : France and WW2 and Nam . Your merely tools for these people and great allies You also forgot the part were the Iraqi army basically disbanded as we came in so they wouldnt die and had no moral to defend a compleate moron like Saddam to begin with . Only morons like yourself are willing to support people like Saddam and Hitler and they definately relie on it .

This is possibly the most convoluted bunch of nonsense you have ever attempted to type. It's so goofy, it's difficult to respond to, because it doesn't flow with any common thought. I don't support Hussein and Hitler. I fully support the US entering the war against Hitler, dumbass. I supported containment of Saddam - obviously the sanctions and our patrols were containing him and preventing him from proliferation. His army and defense was worthless, and it was because of the proper actions we had taken and were continuing to take. No matter how you try to spin it, and namecall, it doesn't make sense, nor make it true. I guess I could spout off something stupid like:

Palehose supports Bin Laden, because he is happy we pulled the majority of our army out of Afghanistan to go to Iraq and attack Hussein. He supports a weaker effort to get the people that really attacks us, so he supports Al Qaida. It makes as much sense, and probably more, than your BS comments. It's wrong, of course, but it's the same thing.

Gee Again moron what part of all those covered vehicals going from Iraq to Syria dont you get ???? you do understand that the Ranger in my familly alone witnessed over 900 covered vehicals and that was only during his watches

Why wasn't anything done about this? If those were WMD's, and we knew they were, why didn't we act to stop it? Wouldn't that have been the smart thing to do? If we wanted to disarm them, why didn't we? We couldn't even come up with ONE DAMN WMD in all this time? Not one. And we knew where they were. Your family member saw 900 trucks on his watch alone, and nothing was done about it? I don't get that. Why didn't we act and follow those trucks? Put more pressure on Syria? We could have done a lot. If that was our real goal.

I see now everybody is a US Citizen aye ? Funny you sound just like the Liberals in France that wanted proof Hitler was going to advance on them hence why they refused to bring the Magnot line around to the Belgium border ....the rest is history

I'm not sure what this is about. I do like proof of things, yes. Especially from this administration, who seems not to be able to produce it when asked or checked out.

Really no need to resort to lies !! they were giving inspectors fits and once again the fact is 1000's of satalite pictures showing covered trucks leaving in mass a day even hours before an inspection and huge delays in getting access ...you know dam well they would have been allowed to walk rt up and get immeadiate access to any where they wanted if there was nothing to hide . Plain fact of the matter is the way they were behaving before during and after an inspection only solidifies the case they were hiding things only a compleate and utter moron would see it diferent

I guess you are saying I am resorting to lies. I dunno. Hard to understand you most of the time. I would assume Saddam and his henchmen to be pretty hard to deal with in most cases, and for them to make things difficult for inspectors. Seems like they would have come up with something, though, doesn't it? Seriously. Something. Anything. Were these guys just that good at hiding things? They were completely worthless and demoralized after the fact, but before...they were all James Bond, I guess. I would say that only a complete moron would think that if Saddam had so many WMDs laying around, that he could hide them all, bury them all, or get them all out of the country on trucks. All of them. Every single one of them.

Why does that seem so impossible to you ? seems pretty dam logical, in fact if it wasent the case Kaddafi could have owned Iraq being that he turned in enough WMD's to destroy Iraq . You have history and the games played during inspections as well to back this up ? Please explain to me why you feel Saddam became a kinder more gentle man ? thats really what you need to prove before anyone with half a brain would ever believe this BS

I don't think it impossible at all. Never said that. Kaddafi? I believe he had some control issues with the US, too, didn't he? A few sanctions and a couple of warranted missile strikes kept him pretty much at bay for like, um, forever, eh? He was going to overrun Iraq? Not likely. I don't think Saddam was a kinder man. I think he was a tyrant. And should have been controlled, as we had been doing. And doing well. I came up with this with half a brain, too.

No but they did bury the hundreds of thousands of men women and children

Right. A tragedy. One that happens in many places in this world. Are we gonna go blast away at all of the dictators that do bad things to their people? Again, I've asked this before, to no response. Which ones should we get? Just Saddam, because it fits your agenda here?

Yep and everybody here is dumber because of it !

I am very sorry your so upset that Iraq is currently a free country one were several million Women got to vote for the 1st time, its very disturbing that bothers you ,but not much anybody can do about it . May you go exactly were that Iraqi woman that didnt get much press believes you belong !!


I'm not upset that Iraq is a free country. You mention the women. Evidently there is some pretty strong language keeping women down in the proposed constitution, depending on which faction is being represented. I'm happy that Iraqis are free, I just don't think we did the right thing in making it happen, when we did, and how we did it. I'd rather have seen our resources go to find the people that murdered our people. Until that was completed. You spin it like I am against freedom and democracy, which is BS, of course. More of the same from you.
 
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