Hillary - Obama Debate: 4/16

WhatsHisNuts

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Obama is getting lit up by the mods. I've never seen him look so bad.

I really like the way Gibson came after Obama's capital gains tax philosophy. I'm liberal, but I like that Charlie brought up the fact that lowering the CGT has led in increased income for the government. I like stats, not BS theory, so that struck a chord. Obama's reponse was piss poor.
 

kosar

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Yeah, for all the talk, pretty accurate, about Obama getting a free pass in these debates and from the press in general, he's getting drilled by the moderators in this one.
 

kosar

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Obama is a joke


Yeah, we know. :rolleyes:

At least McCain, senile 'foreign policy expert', knows the difference between Sunnis and Shia.

He knows that most basic difference so well that he 'confused' them 3 times in just a few minutes. Poor guy, had to have Liebermann FINALLY whisper in his ear. Then he, kind of, got it right.

And that's his purported STRENGTH. Foreign Policy. :mj07:

Those f*cking Iranians training Al-Queda. :rolleyes:

And THIS is the guy you trust with our national security?

It wasn't just a slip of the tongue. He repeated it again and again.
 

djv

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Well i'm still not to hot on any of these three. But I am some what pissed off that they blew so much time on bull chit. And I did find out Obama can take a shot. Christ call it 3 against one. Talk about a set up job. And make it 4 against one. Hannity of Fox news gave George Steff-0-chit one of the mods that worked for the Clintons some of the dirt ball questions to ask. And like a sucker he is for his friend Hillary he did it. Man theres one thing about fair that I didn't see tonight. And Obama showed he can take it. I thought it was three republicans asking ??
 

gardenweasel

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i thought b. hussein and rodham were gonna trade shots and chasers?....

"staggerdome"!!!!... two moonbats enter, one moonbat heaves.....:rimshot


hill shouda broke into her black church dialect...."ahmm in no ways tirrred...ahve come toooo faaahhrr!!"....love that...i`m becoming a hillary fan...

obama on his buddy the terrorist ayres..."this is a guy who lives in my neighborhood"... .

whoa...what a neighborhood...full of commies and terrorists...

lol

but i gotta admit...abc pulled no punches....they actually got tough questions....

bravo...it was actually interesting..
 

layinwood

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they both looked worn out as hell to me.

I don't like either one of them(fyi I don't care for McCain either) but good gosh it just takes too much of a toll on someone, I have no clue why they would put themselves thru it.

For the record, I thought Obama looked better than Hillary. To me she's just a recording. You ask an answer and she pushes the button that has the response. No emotion, no thoughts, just very bad eye makeup that makes her look like she's on pain killers or xanex
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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Obama is getting lit up by the mods. I've never seen him look so bad.

I really like the way Gibson came after Obama's capital gains tax philosophy. I'm liberal, but I like that Charlie brought up the fact that lowering the CGT has led in increased income for the government. I like stats, not BS theory, so that struck a chord. Obama's reponse was piss poor.

Going to have to give credit where credit is due--was no softballing on this one--:00x15

Agree Gary--O looked like entirely diff person--when he can't control dialogue --of course that is true for all poiliticians--however this is 1st time O was put through the wringer.

even more mind boggeling to me was NYT Op-Ed on it--
-

April 18, 2008
Op-Ed Columnist
How Obama Fell to Earth
By DAVID BROOKS
Back in Iowa, Barack Obama promised to be something new ? an unconventional leader who would confront unpleasant truths, embrace novel policies and unify the country. If he had knocked Hillary Clinton out in New Hampshire and entered general-election mode early, this enormously thoughtful man would have become that.

But he did not knock her out, and the aura around Obama has changed. Furiously courting Democratic primary voters and apparently exhausted, Obama has emerged as a more conventional politician and a more orthodox liberal.

He sprinkled his debate performance Wednesday night with the sorts of fibs, evasions and hypocrisies that are the stuff of conventional politics. He claimed falsely that his handwriting wasn?t on a questionnaire about gun control. He claimed that he had never attacked Clinton for her exaggerations about the Tuzla airport, though his campaign was all over it. Obama piously condemned the practice of lifting other candidates? words out of context, but he has been doing exactly the same thing to John McCain, especially over his 100 years in Iraq comment.

Obama also made a pair of grand and cynical promises that are the sign of someone who is thinking more about campaigning than governing.

He made a sweeping read-my-lips pledge never to raise taxes on anybody making less than $200,000 to $250,000 a year. That will make it impossible to address entitlement reform any time in an Obama presidency. It will also make it much harder to afford the vast array of middle-class tax breaks, health care reforms and energy policy Manhattan Projects that he promises to deliver.

Then he made an iron vow to get American troops out of Iraq within 16 months. Neither Obama nor anyone else has any clue what the conditions will be like when the next president takes office. He could have responsibly said that he aims to bring the troops home but will make a judgment at the time. Instead, he rigidly locked himself into a policy that will not be fully implemented for another three years.

If Obama is elected, he will either go back on this pledge ? in which case he would destroy his credibility ? or he will risk genocide in the region and a viciously polarizing political war at home.

Then there are the cultural issues. Charles Gibson and George Stephanopoulos of ABC News are taking a lot of heat for spending so much time asking about Jeremiah Wright and the ?bitter? comments. But the fact is that voters want a president who basically shares their values and life experiences. Fairly or not, they look at symbols like Michael Dukakis in a tank, John Kerry?s windsurfing or John Edwards?s haircut as clues about shared values.

When Obama began this ride, he seemed like a transcendent figure who could understand a wide variety of life experiences. But over the past months, things have happened that make him seem more like my old neighbors in Hyde Park in Chicago.

Some of us love Hyde Park for its diversity and quirkiness, as there are those who love Cambridge and Berkeley. But it is among the more academic and liberal places around. When Obama goes to a church infused with James Cone-style liberation theology, when he makes ill-informed comments about working-class voters, when he bowls a 37 for crying out loud, voters are going to wonder if he?s one of them. Obama has to address those doubts, and he has done so poorly up to now.

It was inevitable that the period of ?Yes We Can!? deification would come to an end. It was not inevitable that Obama would now look so vulnerable. He?ll win the nomination, but in a matchup against John McCain, he is behind in Florida, Missouri and Ohio, and merely tied in must-win states like Michigan, Minnesota, New Jersey and Pennsylvania. A generic Democrat now beats a generic Republican by 13 points, but Obama is trailing his own party. One in five Democrats say they would vote for McCain over Obama.

General election voters are different from primary voters. Among them, Obama is lagging among seniors and men. Instead of winning over white high school-educated voters who are tired of Bush and conventional politics, he does worse than previous nominees. John Judis and Ruy Teixeira have estimated a Democrat has to win 45 percent of such voters to take the White House. I?ve asked several of the most skillful Democratic politicians over the past few weeks, and they all think that?s going to be hard.

A few months ago, Obama was riding his talents. Clinton has ground him down, and we are now facing an interesting phenomenon. Republicans have long assumed they would lose because of the economy and the sad state of their party. Now, Democrats are deeply worried their nominee will lose in November.

Welcome to 2008. Everybody?s miserable.
 
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buddy

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SixFive

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they both looked worn out as hell to me.

I don't like either one of them(fyi I don't care for McCain either) but good gosh it just takes too much of a toll on someone, I have no clue why they would put themselves thru it.

For the record, I thought Obama looked better than Hillary. To me she's just a recording. You ask an answer and she pushes the button that has the response. No emotion, no thoughts, just very bad eye makeup that makes her look like she's on pain killers or xanex

agree with everything in this post.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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Obama is getting lit up by the mods. I've never seen him look so bad.

I really like the way Gibson came after Obama's capital gains tax philosophy. I'm liberal, but I like that Charlie brought up the fact that lowering the CGT has led in increased income for the government. I like stats, not BS theory, so that struck a chord. Obama's reponse was piss poor.

more input on taxes--


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
April 19, 2008
Why Not Blame Obama?
By Lawrence Kudlow

It's rather amusing watching the liberal media launch a full-scale attack on George Stephanopoulos and Charles Gibson, with General Tom Shales of the Washington Post leading the charge. ABC's Stephanopoulos and Gibson had the audacity to ask Obama some tough questions during the Democratic debate Tuesday night. Challenge Obama with well-informed questions on tax policy and politics? Wound the media favorite? How dare they?

The fallout is fascinating. With members of the mainstream liberal media lunging at each others throats, it's kind of like watching Hillary and Obama go at it.

But here's the deal: During the debate, Obama bungled his answers on tax policy, big time. Period. End of sentence. End of story. To my liberal friends in the media, all I can say is: Get over it. Your guy has a very poor grasp of basic economic principles.

First off, you don't raise taxes during a recession. That's a no-brainer. Second, doubling the capital-gains tax rate will affect Americans up and down the income ladder, not just rich hedge-fund managers. In addition, capital-gains tax cuts are self-financing, and they stimulate jobs and the economy. You want to raise budget revenues and spark economic growth? Cut the cap-gains tax rate. That's what history shows.

The Wall Street Journal's Steve Moore points out that in 2005, almost half of all tax returns reporting capital gains came from households with incomes under $50,000, while more than three-quarters came from households earning less than $100,000.

Obama also proposed uncapping the payroll tax, another blunder that will hit people up and down the income ladder. While Obama pledges tax hikes only for folks earning more that $200,000 a year, his tax hike on payrolls would actually slam middle-income earners. The cap on wages subject to the payroll tax is presently $102,000. By eliminating that cap Obama will be soaking veteran firemen, cops, teachers, and health-service workers, along with a variety of other occupations.

In fact, in America's largest cities, a firefighter married to a school teacher can earn close to $200,000 filing jointly. So not only will each spouse separately pay more for Social Security and health care under Obama's plan, together they'll also be slammed by Obama's cap-gains tax increase.

This is more than just a failure to understand the Laffer curve. It's another cultural misstep by Obama. I can't help but wonder if the senator knows any cops or firemen. His appeal is to well-educated latte liberals. That remark about middle-income folks having turned to God, faith, and guns because of economic setbacks? Not only was it ill-advised, it illustrates the wide cultural chasm that exists between the candidate and the rest of America.

In effect, Obama's economics are bad and his social circle is very limited. This is one of the many reasons why a quarter of the Hillary Democrats are telling pollsters they'll likely move to John McCain in the general election.

Obama's real agenda is far-liberal left. It's an ideology that places income redistribution above economic growth. That's his real message. And it's the same one that sunk Carter, Mondale, Dukakis, Gore, and Kerry. Bill Clinton? He was a growth Democrat. So he won twice. But Obama is aligning himself with the Democratic losers. And that will make him a loser as well.

The Gallup poll taken after the Democratic debate reveals that Hillary's pit-bull routine may have worked. We'll learn more on that front come Tuesday when Pennsylvanians head to the voting booths. But that's a different issue. What I'm saying is that liberals need to quit blaming Charlie Gibson and George Stephanopoulos for Obama's shortcomings. Instead, they need to blame Obama for failing to grasp how tax penalties on upward mobility will hurt the very people he thinks he's going to help.

Jack Kemp has effectively made the point that African American communities desperately need capital in order to create new businesses and jobs. Yet as Obama takes the capital out of capitalism, all those who are not rich will be hurt when the rich folks with capital have less of it -- after tax -- to invest in those new businesses and new jobs.

That's exactly why wealth-redistribution plans always backfire. Robbing Peter to pay Paul is a surefire economic loser. So is putting government in charge of the economy, which is what Mr. Obama is proselytizing.

This marks the third mistake for the Illinois senator. Not only does he not understand economics; not only is he set apart from middle-class values and beliefs; he apparently hasn't read much history either.

Did someone say inexperience?

Lawrence Kudlow is a former Reagan economic advisor, a syndicated columnist, and the host of CNBC's Kudlow & Company. Visit his blog, Kudlow's Money Politics.
 

Jabberwocky

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while I am at it, I am not for taxing investors into economic disaster. I am for cutting spending, and that obviously includes "entitlement" programs, funding the occupation of Iraq (oh sorry, the "war" it what it's called to the mentally incompetent), and every other idiotic subsidy, pork barrel, government kickback that drains the public funds.

The "new Republican Party" is such a farce. Fiscally sound policy? Are you fvcking kidding me? What a joke. Here is a graph that I have posted many times. Refute the facts.

Natl_Debt_Chart_2006.gif


Weasel, DTB? Don't worry, be happy. We will "win" the occupation and "defeat" the terrorists.
 
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Jabberwocky

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those damn tax and SPEND liberals. Just keep repeating it. I am a republican, I am for small government, I am for fiscal responsibility, and I stand for moral values, and oh yeah, I am a true American because I have a "Support Our Troops" bumper sticker on my car and an American flag lapel pin on my jacket. What a fvcking joke the GOP has become.
 

gardenweasel

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i think the whining is intended to distract us as they are reaching into our wallets(dtb...let him vent before he explodes)........


hey,"graphmeister general"...the production values on your masterpieces seems like its deteriorating...looks like that was made by an idiot savant(minus the savant part)....

buck it up a little...
 
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