How did we get into this Financial crisis?
- Thread starter Equity Trader
- Start date
To Chadman
I very rarely respond to a..........
Oh relax man...I could give a shit about that and I apologize for putting in my link..
I don't need to promote my website on this forum and is only by habit and a certain person certainly will understand.
That is beside the point.
Try to be objective other than your simple small minded insults.
I'm a professional trader and know the game, but politics, as well, I understand.. I only contributed an alternative point of view to what you and many folks like yourself, think this is the gifted one and does no wrong or could be wrong..We now know, he doesn't walk on water.lol
My take is only a counter objective, as so many of you have launched on the former President Bush and not always with the same grain..Liberals have a very nasty and vitriol hate and my response is accurate..You may disagree, but I stand on my reasoning and believe is very rational thinking, but go for it..
That is your liberal hallmark and hate..We are seeing that now and more folks see the hate you folks and your ideology expound on..This country is going to change and you will finally realize when it's to late..This is very sad indeed..
It's interesting how you liberals always preach tolerance, and yet you want your voice to be heard, but your intolerance for alternative views seems always to be with hate and discourse.
Minnesota is a great state and Jessie and I come from the same frame of thinking and we fought in the same wars, but your embracing Al Frankin needs an adjustment where you folks stand. That guy is a POS and totally unethical and beyond me why a great state would put him in leadership position..Incredible!!
You are wrong in your assumption and yes, you may be sold a bill of goods that eventually, with certainty, you will regret..This I'm sure.
It's all in vision of what will come..Do you see it? I doubt it.
Have a good day
Varok
I very rarely respond to a..........
Oh relax man...I could give a shit about that and I apologize for putting in my link..
I don't need to promote my website on this forum and is only by habit and a certain person certainly will understand.
That is beside the point.
Try to be objective other than your simple small minded insults.
I'm a professional trader and know the game, but politics, as well, I understand.. I only contributed an alternative point of view to what you and many folks like yourself, think this is the gifted one and does no wrong or could be wrong..We now know, he doesn't walk on water.lol
My take is only a counter objective, as so many of you have launched on the former President Bush and not always with the same grain..Liberals have a very nasty and vitriol hate and my response is accurate..You may disagree, but I stand on my reasoning and believe is very rational thinking, but go for it..
That is your liberal hallmark and hate..We are seeing that now and more folks see the hate you folks and your ideology expound on..This country is going to change and you will finally realize when it's to late..This is very sad indeed..
It's interesting how you liberals always preach tolerance, and yet you want your voice to be heard, but your intolerance for alternative views seems always to be with hate and discourse.
Minnesota is a great state and Jessie and I come from the same frame of thinking and we fought in the same wars, but your embracing Al Frankin needs an adjustment where you folks stand. That guy is a POS and totally unethical and beyond me why a great state would put him in leadership position..Incredible!!
You are wrong in your assumption and yes, you may be sold a bill of goods that eventually, with certainty, you will regret..This I'm sure.
It's all in vision of what will come..Do you see it? I doubt it.
Have a good day
Varok
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Amen to that. I was starting to worry about you. Until recently, haven't seen much of your "the liberals are the devil!?!!?!?!?!" rants in a few years.
Yes sir B I'll go along with you--IF the buyer did not understand on loan papers that ARM interest will increase at point in time--but I doubt that to be the case--if so they got no business applying for loan.
--out of curiousity--in your world--are there any actions on an individuals part that they are responsible for?
wayne, there are a lot of circumstances where people may have taken an ARM and got ripped. i'll give one example....
when i moved to indiana, by the time my new house was ready for closing my old house hadn't been sold yet. i wanted to use my equity from old house to put into the new house therefore i took a 3 year ARM knowing that my house would sell in that time frame and i would refi. everything worked out for me but what about people that....
- never got their old house sold
- the new house and old house lost 40%+ of it's value
my timing worked well because i sold in 2005 at the peak and made out.
suppose i moved from ft meyers to vegas because of job? people in that example got fuked and fuked big.
there are a lot more examples, i just gave you one reason to take an ARM. the pmt was WAY cheaper than taking a fixed and i planned on taking a fixed when my house sold.
it's not ALL irresponsible people that got screwed over, there are millions?
they're not ALL low income people that had bad credit and not enough income. in those cases the banks screwed up making the loan and the bank got bailed out. wtf?
you still don't get it... if you did, you wouldn't ask this question.... or maybe you do & seeing it your way is that spoon full of sugar that makes this crisis go down.... I can't go your way... The person with the gun makes the rules... ..it starts with the lender... just because the lender TARGETED people to commit fraud with them, doesn't change the fact that the lender committed fraud... it all comes back to, who's game it was... who had the hammer, who had the most to gain. It all comes back to the question ? WHY ARE WE HERE ??? The lenders were not giving money away... they got theirs & passed it on... NO ETHICS...
I am familiar with your circumstance Jack--and that would be one of my 10% I said had legit reason--another may be only anticipate living in area short time and there could be a few others--Most were those that couldn't pay the 30 year rate on house "they wanted" or speculators trying to parlay on increasing home values--but bottom line for what ever reason--they rolled the dice on taking ARM or fixed--and they are responsible for decision and results--IMO
The thing that gets me is someone should have learned their lesson--but now we are pumping another 75 bill in trying to save same people that got us here for most part--but I'll save rant on that till I see details--so far it appears that those who have done right and have best credit ratings will no longer be rewarded with best rates--they are reserved for those in foreclosure.
Wow, looks like I touched a nerve with my personal opinion of your in-depth posts. After further review, I see a majority of your posts are promoting your assessments on penny stocks, with links to your site and your writeups. I saw one post placed in the dumpster due to Jack labeling it spam. So, I guess my thinking wasn't too far off, but it's not a big deal to me. It's up to Jack to decide, and although I have a right to post about it, I have no right to decide anything. To each their own. However, now that you have used a big paintbrush to try to label me, I will address whatever points you are trying to make to me.
I'm not sure anything in my posts should be labeled small-minded insults. It was an opinion of why I thought you were posting, nothing more, nothing less. I think it's enlightening that you immediately rush to label my commentary as small-minded. I have no problem discussing issues with you are anyone by using whatever sized mind I have. Again, maybe I struck a little too close to home with my opinion, I don't know.
I am not completely one sided about most issues, political or not. I do not worship Obama, and I have concerns about him and some of the things he is doing. Real concerns. I was a Hillary supporter, and thought she would have made a better President. Some of the things that just happened I think are wrong - the welfare issue is a big one. The size of this whole thing to me is wrong. I think there is plenty in this package that should never have been brought to light, especially not now, if ever.
I think much of what you posted is accurate and is logical. I have no problem someone taking another position to mine - it's common sense that people would. We all have opinions based on our backgrounds, education, life experiences, further study, and core belief system. Those opinions often change, if a person truly can be open to things. I have changed my opinion on a few things in discussions here, with sensible people who use facts and make a good case. I think maybe I have changed a couple minds from time to time, but that's not a big deal, either way.
I really don't consider myself a complete liberal. You can chalk me up to be a complete Bush ridiculer, no problem. I am not absolutely against the conservative theory - it makes a great deal of sense to me in many ways. I think George Bush was a terrible President, who either was fairly incompetent from a capability standpoint, or had little to do with much of what went on during his tenure. I honestly don't know which is more correct (if either), but I think both from time to time. And I really don't like where we are now, and I do blame his administration for most of it. I don't like him personally, never did, and doubt I ever will. With him, it's personal for me, and it isn't usually. I never felt that way about any other President, including his father, Reagan, etc. The saying anybody but Bush certainly applies for me. Not the conservative theory - we need much of that, I think. I think we have to have balance, and I don't see a lot of balance at the moment, and I don't like that. I certainly lean to the left on many issues, but have some conservative tendencies and preferences. I don't think either the liberal or conservative platform is "right" for the country. I think both have some good offerings, and we need both.
I don't hate very much. You labeling me a hater is just wrong, IMO. But that's the old paintbrush thing - a conservative using the old reliable descriptions to dismiss people, if you will. Liberals do it too. Often. I see a lot of hate on the conservative side, too. How about the bombing of an abortion clinic, for instance? The ignorant racism that flies around here from time to time. That's hate, and it comes directly from the keyboards of those who proudly label themselves as devout conservatives.
Finally, you come at me with the Franken paintbrush and allegations about him as being unethical, etc. CERTAINLY, we have seen how ethical Norm Coleman has been, plenty of fodder for that discussion. But that's not even really the issue here - I didn't support nor vote for Franken. I don't really like him, and didn't think he was worthy of being my representative. I voted for the Independent candidate - not something a true liberal would do, is it? My non-vote could have put a Republican - one I really dislike - in office, but I stayed true to my convictions. I wonder now how many non-conservatives you have ever voted for, since you call me one-sided? Maybe you have. I voted for the Republican Governor of our state - twice. I would vote for him again, if possible. I did not vote for your guy Jesse, though - he was and is an imbecile. By many accounts he did a fair job in the position, merely by going against the grain at every turn. But he was a joke in many respects.
I wish you a good day, too. If I'm wrong about my assumption about your mission here, so be it. Many people have posted for a short time to try to drum up business for themselves, never to stay and continue on after their mission was understood. Time will tell, and I'll say no more about it. I encourage and welcome your posts, and hope to learn from them. We can all learn from others.
The people who signed a ARM loan were led to believe a 0%interest to a slowly rising interest in the 1st 5years,when in fact the the interest rate damn exploded on then within the 1st 5yrs.
For many by the time it was realised to refinance ,the damage was done,and unatainable,and here we are today realistly on the verge of collapse,between banks,Autos,retailers,etc.,you name it.
To Chadman.
Thank you for your response..
I may have overloaded my assumption and tag you as a typical liberal..That was wrong on my part...
Sometimes my over zealous approach gets the better of me and that is unfortunate, as I have no idea who you are and labeling is the wrong method..The post was made in general context and using words like " you " to discribe an individual was not the best approach.
I very seldum come and read posts on this forum and really should not have cast a broad brush and cast judgment on you or anyone perticular and assume on my part, that with the same vain, cast you as a liberal..I stand corrected after reading your post..
side note..
My forum may be something that you may feel is a pennystock tout site, but I'm sure that many of my members do make money on my trading methods and many Wall Street firms feel the same..
Firms that conduct market awarness programs, don't last long in this business and my members are growing at an incredible rate, now numbering 3200 and that is within the year.
However, thank you again and my apologies.
Have a good day
varok
PS. Jack spamed one of my post uh..lol
Jack!!!
Thank you for your response..
I may have overloaded my assumption and tag you as a typical liberal..That was wrong on my part...
Sometimes my over zealous approach gets the better of me and that is unfortunate, as I have no idea who you are and labeling is the wrong method..The post was made in general context and using words like " you " to discribe an individual was not the best approach.
I very seldum come and read posts on this forum and really should not have cast a broad brush and cast judgment on you or anyone perticular and assume on my part, that with the same vain, cast you as a liberal..I stand corrected after reading your post..
side note..
My forum may be something that you may feel is a pennystock tout site, but I'm sure that many of my members do make money on my trading methods and many Wall Street firms feel the same..
Firms that conduct market awarness programs, don't last long in this business and my members are growing at an incredible rate, now numbering 3200 and that is within the year.
However, thank you again and my apologies.
Have a good day
varok
PS. Jack spamed one of my post uh..lol
Jack!!!
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Equity Trader, I appreciate your response, and in many ways I felt bad about coming at you with my point. The thing is, I can't help but think that the long posts you make in the politics forum are a copy of (for example) an e-newsletter that you send out to clients, and considering that the salutation and send off includes your e-mail address (unless pointed out, most of the time) it makes it all the more likely. Otherwise, why would you have an e-mail address publicly in your post?
Again, it's not my place, but I know from trying to build an online business and website in the past that you use every opportunity to get eyes on your product, and cross marketing and cross publishing is one of the top ways to do it. Your response highlighting your methods being successful, wall street members agreeing, and the rising number of new members you have signed on in the past year just backs up that thinking.
We can all learn from others, and I certainly can learn from those that study and talk about the market and investments. My point was it seemed a transparent effort to gain new followers (investors) to your endeavor in the way you were posting and the content. Especially the salutation - that's always a dead giveaway in my experience.
All that being said - it's great to talk about things, and it's not my business nor forum to police. I've done too much already. My personal view of the world seems to change on a daily basis - I am currently far more worried about where we are headed financially, despite some really good things I see happening for many in the current environment. I see many bad things happening, too. I'm convinced that my "positive" outlook on how things can be economically can be naive and unfounded. And I am no economist, nor market strategist. More of a people/word person, and I'm sure that shows, good and bad.
Peace, and good luck to you in your endeavors.
Again, it's not my place, but I know from trying to build an online business and website in the past that you use every opportunity to get eyes on your product, and cross marketing and cross publishing is one of the top ways to do it. Your response highlighting your methods being successful, wall street members agreeing, and the rising number of new members you have signed on in the past year just backs up that thinking.
We can all learn from others, and I certainly can learn from those that study and talk about the market and investments. My point was it seemed a transparent effort to gain new followers (investors) to your endeavor in the way you were posting and the content. Especially the salutation - that's always a dead giveaway in my experience.
All that being said - it's great to talk about things, and it's not my business nor forum to police. I've done too much already. My personal view of the world seems to change on a daily basis - I am currently far more worried about where we are headed financially, despite some really good things I see happening for many in the current environment. I see many bad things happening, too. I'm convinced that my "positive" outlook on how things can be economically can be naive and unfounded. And I am no economist, nor market strategist. More of a people/word person, and I'm sure that shows, good and bad.
Peace, and good luck to you in your endeavors.
From Investors Business Daily
Let The Inquisition Start With Frank
By INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY | Posted Friday, March 06, 2009 4:20 PM PT
Oversight: Congressman Barney Frank says he wants some of those responsible for our current financial meltdown to be prosecuted. And we couldn't agree more. First up in the court dock: Rep. Barney Frank, D-Mass.
Even by the extraordinarily loose standards of Congress, it takes some chutzpah for someone such as Frank to suggest that he'll seek prosecutions for those behind the housing and financial crunch and for what he called "a strongly empowered systemic risk regulator."
For Frank, perhaps more than any single individual in private or public life, is responsible for both the housing market mess and subsequent bank disaster. And no, this isn't partisan hyperbole or historical exaggeration.
But first, a little trip down memory lane.
It was Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the two so-called Government Sponsored Enterprises (GSEs), that lay behind the crisis. After regulatory changes made to the Community Reinvestment Act by President Clinton in 1995, Fannie and Freddie went into hyper-drive, channeling literally trillions of dollars into the housing markets, using leverage and implicit taxpayers' guarantees.
In November 2000, President Clinton's Housing and Urban Development Department would trumpet "new regulations to provide $2.4 trillion in mortgages for affordable housing for 28.1 million families." The vehicles for this were Fannie and Freddie. It was the largest expansion in housing aid ever.
Still, from the early 1990s on, many people both inside and outside Washington were alarmed by what they saw at Fannie and Freddie.
Not Barney Frank: Starting in the early 1990s, he (and other Democrats) stood athwart efforts by regulators, Congress and the White House to get the runaway housing market under control.
He opposed reform as early as 1992. And, in response to another attempt bring Fannie-Freddie to heel in 2000, Frank responded it wasn't needed because there was "no federal liability there whatsoever."
In 2002, Frank nixed reforms again. See a pattern here?
Even after federal regulators discovered in 2003 that Fannie and Freddie executives had overstated earnings by as much as $10.6 billion in order to boost bonuses, Frank didn't miss a beat.
President Bush pushed for what the New York Times then called "the most significant regulatory overhaul in the housing finance industry since the savings and loan crisis a decade ago."
If it had passed, the housing crisis likely would have never boiled over, at least not the extent it did, taking the economy with it. Instead, led by Frank, Democrats stood as a bloc against any changes.
"Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are not facing any kind of financial crisis," Frank, then the ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee, said. "The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing."
It's hard to say why Frank did all this. It could be his close ties to the Neighborhood Assistance Corp., a powerful housing activist group based in Boston, which controls billions in loans. Or that he received some $40,100 in campaign donations from Fannie and Freddie from 1989 to 2008. Or that he has been romantically linked to a one-time executive at Fannie during the 1990s.
Whatever the case, his conflicts are obvious and outrageous, and his refusal to countenance reforms of Fannie and Freddie contributed mightily to today's meltdown. If you're looking for a culprit in the meltdown to prosecute, no one fits the bill better than Frank.
Let The Inquisition Start With Frank
By INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY | Posted Friday, March 06, 2009 4:20 PM PT
Oversight: Congressman Barney Frank says he wants some of those responsible for our current financial meltdown to be prosecuted. And we couldn't agree more. First up in the court dock: Rep. Barney Frank, D-Mass.
Even by the extraordinarily loose standards of Congress, it takes some chutzpah for someone such as Frank to suggest that he'll seek prosecutions for those behind the housing and financial crunch and for what he called "a strongly empowered systemic risk regulator."
For Frank, perhaps more than any single individual in private or public life, is responsible for both the housing market mess and subsequent bank disaster. And no, this isn't partisan hyperbole or historical exaggeration.
But first, a little trip down memory lane.
It was Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the two so-called Government Sponsored Enterprises (GSEs), that lay behind the crisis. After regulatory changes made to the Community Reinvestment Act by President Clinton in 1995, Fannie and Freddie went into hyper-drive, channeling literally trillions of dollars into the housing markets, using leverage and implicit taxpayers' guarantees.
In November 2000, President Clinton's Housing and Urban Development Department would trumpet "new regulations to provide $2.4 trillion in mortgages for affordable housing for 28.1 million families." The vehicles for this were Fannie and Freddie. It was the largest expansion in housing aid ever.
Still, from the early 1990s on, many people both inside and outside Washington were alarmed by what they saw at Fannie and Freddie.
Not Barney Frank: Starting in the early 1990s, he (and other Democrats) stood athwart efforts by regulators, Congress and the White House to get the runaway housing market under control.
He opposed reform as early as 1992. And, in response to another attempt bring Fannie-Freddie to heel in 2000, Frank responded it wasn't needed because there was "no federal liability there whatsoever."
In 2002, Frank nixed reforms again. See a pattern here?
Even after federal regulators discovered in 2003 that Fannie and Freddie executives had overstated earnings by as much as $10.6 billion in order to boost bonuses, Frank didn't miss a beat.
President Bush pushed for what the New York Times then called "the most significant regulatory overhaul in the housing finance industry since the savings and loan crisis a decade ago."
If it had passed, the housing crisis likely would have never boiled over, at least not the extent it did, taking the economy with it. Instead, led by Frank, Democrats stood as a bloc against any changes.
"Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are not facing any kind of financial crisis," Frank, then the ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee, said. "The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing."
It's hard to say why Frank did all this. It could be his close ties to the Neighborhood Assistance Corp., a powerful housing activist group based in Boston, which controls billions in loans. Or that he received some $40,100 in campaign donations from Fannie and Freddie from 1989 to 2008. Or that he has been romantically linked to a one-time executive at Fannie during the 1990s.
Whatever the case, his conflicts are obvious and outrageous, and his refusal to countenance reforms of Fannie and Freddie contributed mightily to today's meltdown. If you're looking for a culprit in the meltdown to prosecute, no one fits the bill better than Frank.
- Feb 26, 2001
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:mj07:
so let me get this straight, the republicans are regulation wonks? Unfuvking believable. Who was McCains chief economic advisor? Remind me.
"President Bush pushed for what the New York Times then called "the most significant regulatory overhaul in the housing finance industry since the savings and loan crisis a decade ago."
If it had passed, the housing crisis likely would have never boiled over,"
the global economic crisis amounts to liberals "forcing" banks to make bad loans to people who couldn't pay them back.
Jethro, you suffer from terminal stupidity. But keep selling those annuities to little old ladys in bfe ky. You are a great American. Thanks for all you produce (which is nothing). Good job.
If it had passed, the housing crisis likely would have never boiled over,"
the global economic crisis amounts to liberals "forcing" banks to make bad loans to people who couldn't pay them back.
Jethro, you suffer from terminal stupidity. But keep selling those annuities to little old ladys in bfe ky. You are a great American. Thanks for all you produce (which is nothing). Good job.
I don't know anyone who has lost their home either. On a side note, how much does an average house go for in the middle of fucking nowhere in kentucky go fo these days? Just on average.
Have you seen Frank's recent comments?
Compared to his comments many years earlier regarding Fannie and Freddie?
It's not his, or any one particular persons fault, of course, but how do you(Frank) strike out against others when you're on tape with his comments? He's a fucking hypocrite beyond belief.
Not sure what your problem is with my post, but i'll continue to submit that Pelosi and Reid are partisan losers at best. They're horrible for the democratic party.
