How Republicans Screw Working People

[Duff Miver]

I have bought US Savings bonds many many times but many years ago.

I have a 91 year old uncle that was a GI, WWII, another uncle served stateside in US Army Air Corp, my Dad was an essential farmer, I had a cousin that served in Korea, and I did not burn my draft card 18 in 1972, would have served if called but Nixon shut it down.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR ASKING.

PS, you can take a breath now, and OH by the way, my maternal Great-Great grandfather was a surgeon for the UNION ARMY, you know the one that fought in the Civil War, and a grand uncle also was in the Union army.

Don't make me anyone special just thought you should know DM.

I am a 1954 model, my Dad 1915, he will be 96 in August, I hope he makes it, and my Grandfather was born 1867, it was his step brother, His mother was my Great grandfather's second wife. Childbirth got a lot of women back then.

That's a lot of words to say "I never bought a War Bond or served, but I think it's a good idea if others do."

You're right about one thing - you're nobody special. :142smilie

 

[Chadman]

Wow. I was pretty hammered last night:0002

This is great... it's always at the root of my worst posting performances - and my best... :toast: :mj07:

 

[Von Trapp]

Just finished preparing Mom's Fed income tax. Mom had a lot of income last year - small amounts from Social Security and some interest and dividends, but a big chunk of long term capital gains. She made lots more than the average working man.

But, thanks to the Republicans under Bush, and their diddling with the tax code re: capital gains, her total Fed tax was.....zero, not a penny.

Joe Schmo who got up and worked every day and earned the same money would have paid a big tax bill.

The Republicans sold this pig-in-a-poke by saying eliminating long term capital gains would encourage people to invest. Nope. Just the opposite. It encouraged Mom to take her money and run.

Funny thing is, those stupid, salt of the earth people get them elected not realizing they are not good for their pocketbook. They gotta laugh about it behind closed doors.

 

[Duff Miver]

Funny thing is, those stupid, salt of the earth people get them elected not realizing they are not good for their pocketbook. They gotta laugh about it behind closed doors.

It takes some special skills to be a successful politician. You've got to be able to pat a guy on the back and pick his pocket at the same time.

 

[Mags]

It takes some special skills to be a successful politician. You've got to be able to pat a guy on the back and pick his pocket at the same time.

Actually it sounds like you are talking about a union leader instead - in fact, they actually do - it's called union dues.

 

[Duff Miver]

Actually it sounds like you are talking about a union leader instead - in fact, they actually do - it's called union dues.

Painting with a rather broad brush, eh Maggot?

Your comment applies to the likes of Jimmy Hoffa, but I'll bet it doesn't apply to John Matthews Executive Director if the MTI.

 

[flapjack]

It's 0% for 2008-2012 tax years if your ordinary taxable income is under $34,000 which puts you in the 15% and under tax bracket. Thus most folks with earned income under about $45-50K qualify for 0% on long term cap gains.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_gains_tax_in_the_United_States

http://www.obliviousinvestor.com/tax-brackets/

Sweet deal for the rich, no help for working folks who don't have a lot to invest.

You are complaining that all those rich people who earn less than 50K a year don't have to pay taxes? Is that your arguement? Do you see any fundimental, basic flaws in your arguement?

 

[Duff Miver]

You are complaining that all those rich people who earn less than 50K a year don't have to pay taxes? Is that your arguement? Do you see any fundimental, basic flaws in your arguement?

Nope, I don't see any flaw at all. Rich people often do not have much earned income, rather they have income producing investments which they can tax shelter, and this is just another of those tax breaks for folks who have substantial capital to invest, unlike Joe who works for a living, pays taxes on everything he earns, and has little left to save and invest.

Just so you know, I don't pay any income taxes either...and I still hate Republicans.

We don't pay taxes. Only the little people pay taxes.
Leona Helmsley

 

[flapjack]

Nope, I don't see any flaw at all. Rich people often do not have much earned income, rather they have income producing investments which they can tax shelter, and this is just another of those tax breaks for folks who have substantial capital to invest, unlike Joe who works for a living, pays taxes on everything he earns, and has little left to save and invest.
[/B]

If you have a decent income, you pay taxes on it eventually whether it is defered or not. The 15% cg tax is used unless you are taking in less than roughly 50K income from all sources. Your taxable income includes income producing investments - you will be responsible for income that year or eventually when you sell.

Theres no loop hole here unless you are talking about not declaring income and then hiding it in off shore tax shelters which would be illegal. In which case, you could also argue bank robbers are taking advantage of the tax codes by not declaring their income. If that is your arguement - that some rich people are hiding assests, it has nothing to do with your mom or the % of capital gains taxes.

 

[Duff Miver]

If you have a decent income, you pay taxes on it eventually whether it is defered or not. The 15% cg tax is used unless you are taking in less than roughly 50K income from all sources. Your taxable income includes income producing investments - you will be responsible for income that year or eventually when you sell.

Theres no loop hole here unless you are talking about not declaring income and then hiding it in off shore tax shelters which would be illegal. In which case, you could also argue bank robbers are taking advantage of the tax codes by not declaring their income. If that is your arguement - that some rich people are hiding assests, it has nothing to do with your mom or the % of capital gains taxes.

Of course there's a fully legal loophole. Simply reduce your taxable income below $34K for the filing year and there's 0% tax on capital gains. You will never pay capital gains tax on those gains. Perfectly legal. It's no problem for most folks of means to defer or shelter income. Ask any decent tax lawyer.

Illegal activity is something else altogether and not what I was referring to.

 

[flapjack]

Of course there's a fully legal loophole. Simply reduce your taxable income below $34K for the filing year and there's 0% tax on capital gains. You will never pay capital gains tax on those gains. Perfectly legal. It's no problem for most folks of means to defer or shelter income. Ask any decent tax lawyer.

Illegal activity is something else altogether and not what I was referring to.

You know you cant quit your job for a year, cash 1 million dollars worth of stock and claim 0 taxes right? If thats what you did on your moms tax return, you really need to take another look at it before she gets in some hot water.

 

[Duff Miver]

You know you cant quit your job for a year, cash 1 million dollars worth of stock and claim 0 taxes right? If thats what you did on your moms tax return, you really need to take another look at it before she gets in some hot water.

That's not the situation. I can read -

http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc409.html

 

[flapjack]

"Currently net capital gain is generally taxed at rates no higher than 15%, although, for 2008 through 2010, some or all net capital gain may be taxed at 0%, if it would otherwise be taxed at lower rates."

This is the only part I can figure you must be basing this off of. Pretty sure its saying you may be taxed at zero for cg if your income - including net gains from stock and other sources being below the 34K level. If it where not the case, every accountant and financial planner in america would tell anyone retiring to just not dip into their stocks or sell any real estate for 1 year and then take all investment $'s tax free for the rest of their lives. Or, even if you are not retiring and have some nice investments, take the year off, sell them and then have all that investment profit tax free. Its saying you are paying 15% unless you are not making much and your stock gains are not going to push you into a higher bracket. Its an exemption for the poor, not the wealthy. Frankly, I hope you are right, because this would be a hell of a loop hole.

 

[Duff Miver]

"Currently net capital gain is generally taxed at rates no higher than 15%, although, for 2008 through 2010, some or all net capital gain may be taxed at 0%, if it would otherwise be taxed at lower rates."

This is the only part I can figure you must be basing this off of. Pretty sure its saying you may be taxed at zero for cg if your income - including net gains from stock and other sources being below the 34K level. If it where not the case, every accountant and financial planner in america would tell anyone retiring to just not dip into their stocks or sell any real estate for 1 year and then take all investment $'s tax free for the rest of their lives. Or, even if you are not retiring and have some nice investments, take the year off, sell them and then have all that investment profit tax free. Its saying you are paying 15% unless you are not making much and your stock gains are not going to push you into a higher bracket. Its an exemption for the poor, not the wealthy. Frankly, I hope you are right, because this would be a hell of a loop hole.

It is a Hell of a loophole, but it expires with the 2012 tax year. Yes. I'm certain tax planners are aware, but that doesn't do Joe Schmoo who has to work for a living any good, since he can't quit his job just to benefit from reduced taxes on capital gains which he has little of.

You may find the Wiki explanation easier to understand than the IRS.gov verbiage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_gains_tax_in_the_United_States

 

[flapjack]

I think you are missing a key point. Its based on gross income. So, if you salary was 25K and you sold stock for a 100K gain, you could only get the first 9K tax free under that law, the rest would be taxed as usual.

 

[Turfgrass]

I think you are missing a key point. Its based on gross income. So, if you salary was 25K and you sold stock for a 100K gain, you could only get the first 9K tax free under that law, the rest would be taxed as usual.

I don't think he's thinking of it the same way you are. I believe the point he's making is (correct me if I'm wrong here Duff) if Bill Gates wanted to take the year off (or someone like him who doesn't work at all in the first place) he can just live off the Capital Gains of Microsoft as long as he keeps his TAXABLE income under the 15% tax bracket...he's the one who isn't paying any taxes and ginning the system.

What I think you are referring to is the Old guy who is retired and is using his investments in the market to get a good deal on his Capital gains.


But I don't think Bill (or any other rich guy) could live like a Monk on only 30 some thousand a year which would make his point moot. (IMHO)