Iran is next

[gardenweasel]

Why Iran or Iraq? What links do we have that tie them to terror or 9/11? We should of went into Saudi Arabia to make a statement about terrorism and the financing of terrorism.

Thomas Kean, chairman of the 9/11 Commission. “There was no question in our minds that there was a relationship between Iraq and al Qaeda.” ....

sounds like the commission was a little conflicted....

i don`t think they looked very hard....

i wrote about 20 panels on the subject....and i have more....


imagine is we had gone into saudi arabia....you guys would be going to work with your "no blood for oil" sandwich boards over your aprons....lol

btw...
the chances of us invading iran are slim....and none.....

we have some relatively intelligent guys here...iran would have to obliterate another country to get europe off their lazy,crooked asses....unless it was israel....then,they`d just give the mullahs a pass...or a pat on the back......like they gave saddam a pass for lobbing scuds into israel...while they sat on their hands...



the rest of the world couldn`give a big rat`s ass whether iran,iraq or saint kitts has nuclear weapons....as long as they can make a buck off them...

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

Will be tough decision--Gw in no win situation--Have seen many politicians (no L word Smurph) that stated we need to have support of Euro allies before going into iRAQ--Now asking why we didn't/don't move on Iran--easy to sit on the fence.

I think the solution will come from within--lots of unhappy campers and you can't force revolution unless the people back it--I do think we have much better leverage by by already having shop set up next door--and seeing what occurred in Afgan and Iraq should pump the Iranians up---freedom is contagious--and many now believe we will stand by them to the end--as it has been long process to over come memories of George SR and Swartzkoffs horrendous move or non-move I should say.

I disagree on moral of troops Matt with exception of reserves and guard who did not bargain for this--however regular troops would prob rather be in the action than at home--saw some interviews with troops during Ms Americas tour there last week--and their concern was more of press back home than the fight.
One remarked it was uncomprehensible what some of our own conressmen were saying what they were and wanted to know if interviewer thought americans agreed with them.

 

[kosar]

I disagree on moral of troops Matt with exception of reserves and guard who did not bargain for this--however regular troops would prob rather be in the action than at home--saw some interviews with troops during Ms Americas tour there last week--and their concern was more of press back home than the fight.
One remarked it was uncomprehensible what some of our own conressmen were saying what they were and wanted to know if interviewer thought americans agreed with them.

Wayne, my comments about morale were with the premise of us, in a couple of years, going straight from Iraq to Iran. But your comment about regular troops rather being in Iraq than at home is simply ludicrous.

 

[gardenweasel]

maybe we can send more inspectors into iran....

hans blix or whatever his name was....

of course,they`ll deny the inspectors access to any critical areas....they can only go where allowed....

or,if pressed,they`ll kick them out...ala saddam...if they get to close to sensitive areas......

and start the whole 2 decade inspection debacle again...

does this strike anyone else as the "theater of the absurd?"...

you can inspect where the offender says you can inspect.....

they can drag it out for years on end with europe running interference....

saddam was no threat...no chance that he had weapons..not even chems or bio`s....all those kurds died from air pollution...

funny..they weren`t located either....the chems. and bio`s.....how strange...

..no chance they were buried in the desert....or moved in the sloth-like lead up to the invasion....he blocked the inspectors.....risked his entire kingdom...because he was beligerent...

lol

anyway....he couldn`t hit us here.....not even by some shadowy terrorist proxy....he knew no terrorists...not even the three abu`s....they were just visiting iraq benignly...

.iran is no threat,either....their just building reactors for power.....even though they are sitting on humongous oil resources...

the only hope for the middle east is that israel will again do the world`s dirty work....and again be vilified(like they were when they took out saddam`s reactor).....

of course,if they hadn`t,kuwait would now be called southeastern iraq...

or,we would have seen the beginning of ww3...if the world had tried to extract saddam from kuwait...because,there probably would have been nukes instead of scuds thudding into israel...

 

[kosar]

We know that Saddam had a reactor. 25 years ago.

We know Saddam used our chemical weapons against the Kurds. 15 years ago.

We know Saddam was bad.

We know that if Saddam could have he would have loved to restart his program that had been dormant since 1991.

GW, just because we have the worlds best milotary doesn't mean we can perform miracles. We simply cannot take on Iran right now. Because of this Iraq nonsense.

I agree with much of your post regarding Iran as a threat, and it proves my point. The fact that we're in Iraq severely ties our hands in dealing with things like that.

If you disagree with any of my previous post about the prospect of invading Iran right now, please share.

And talk about the 'theater of the absurd', can you believe that there are still people who talk about these huge stockpiles of WMD?

 

[JT]

We won't be invading Iran anytime soon. Isn't two countries enough? Having a hard enough time with them.

 

[gardenweasel]

where are the chems and bio`s?....

saddam was a monster...but he wasn`t an utter moron...

are we saying that the entire regime was peopled by idiots?....

i don`t think so...

so,why not give the inspectors what they wanted?.....dismantle the chems and bio`s...or just show how and where you dismantled them?

live to fight another day...keep getting richer from the oil for food program....

where`s the logic?

as far as iran is concerned,we will get no help from europe,russia or china...

collective pressure could go a long way....as it could have in iraq...

but,either the rest of the world has no will....no resolve....

or they like profit miore than the threat of armageddon....

or,they are so shortsighted that they don`t understand the global implications of despots....unstable regimes...having access to the end of the world as we know it....

they think that the u.s. is the only one at risk...and that`s ludicrous....

i swear,the parallels to ww2 are startling....

europe with their heads in the sand...they can`t even run their own countries..piss poor,failing economies...socialism...they can`t even band together to try and stem the tide.....the wold`s eunuchs...

anti-israeli sentiment and anti-semitism running rampant...

a burgeoning threat growing right under the world`s noses....particularly in europe and the neatherlands...it`s right in their faces...and they don`t get it...

nobody believes the unthinkable can happen....even after 9/11 ..

let me ask this....we saw that the world(europe,russia and china)has no interest in stopping anyone from acquiring wmd`s...

in france and russia`s cases,they actively have or are helping iraq and iran build reactors,respectively...

they really don`t care..they see it as OUR(the u.s.`)problem....

let me ask this......say we didn`t invade iraq..say we allowed things to stay as they were...lets even say,for argument`s sake, that it was fact that saddam had nothing(which i think is ridiculous)....

..what are the chances that iraq and saddam sits on their hands as iran arms itself to the teeth?

does anyone believe that?

wouldn`t we be revisiting the iraq issue yet again(for the umteenth time) in the near future?

and when iran gets their weapons,what stops THEM from becoming the bully...invading neighbors as iraq did.....

and who will extricate them once they make a move?....once they have the ultimate weapon?....

this stuff begs credibility.....in the real world...

history keeps repeating itself....the u.s. will be left trying to put things back together again....

if the middle east isn`t left uninhabitable...

it`s so logical.....

 

[JT]

Perhaps gw, if both Iran and Iraq HAD nuclear weapons they would not have fought each other in that war. Case in point, Pakistan and India. If both didn't have them, without a doubt you would see more fighting there. Does not mean I want to see Iran with nukes but I personally am not scared by the prospect either.

 

[smurphy]

interesting point jt. there is an argument to made for the innevitability of almost every nation to eventually have nuclear weapon capabilities. we may have to face that conclusion with iran. the people of this country will not provide the required support for an all out pre-emptive invasion of iran on the premise of 'stopping them from acquiring nuclear weapons capabilities.' the only way we'll get the massive support required is for us to get hit very hard first.

iran probably is a lot like pakistan. most of these countries wouldn't nuke us or our allies is because they know that would give us authority to wipe them off the planet. no regime wants to end itself like that. very few - even among the maniac leaders of the world - want to be martyrs to that extent.

bottom line, i don't think we really can or will do anything unless something is done to us first.

 

[gardenweasel]

nice in theory,j.t.....

so,you would feel more comfortable with saddam and the mullahs with their fingers on the button?

what about israel?.....this stuff doesn`t happen in a vaccuum....

we keep israel in check....who keeps the despots in check?

you know that they now make "suitcase nukes",don`t you?...

what would keep saddam or the radicals from letting the "insurgents"(lol)happily do their dirty work?"....

here...or in israel?...saddam had referred to his having nuclear weapons circa 1980 as the "sword of
nebuchadnezzar" to be used to destroy Iraq's foes and restore the splendor of
babylon to the arab world....the guy was dangerous...


the idea of lobbing scuds into israel was to get them to respond...and bring the entire arab world to iraq`s side vs the zionists....

scuds are one thing...nukes or biological weapons are something else altogether....

no second chances...

they don`t have the same mindset that we do....they want to do the absolute most damage that they can....

if israel is attacked with a nuclear weapon,they`ll be forced to respond in kind...

forget hundreds of thousands of potential deaths...what happens to our economy?

what happens to china`s oil driven budding economy....

these other countries don`t get it...i`ll never understand it....

you feel comfortable with everyone having doomsday weapons?....

saddam?....the ayatollahs?...

you see the power that n.korea wields with their nutty leader lobbing "test missiles" over japan....

you want more like him?

you`re some gambler,my man...

 

[TonyTT]

these other countries don`t get it...i`ll never understand it....
...

Five will get ya ten that there are many people around the rest of the world saying...the American public just doesn't get it....they've been used as cannon fodder in most of the MAJOR WORLD CONFLICTS since WW2, and all of the major economic systems keep rolling along, at the expense of the American public of course...both in military manpower loss and a transfer of American wealth.
I'd wager that many of them believe that America is nothing more than the "strongarm" of the international bankers....controlling nations and manipulating world markets (with the manipulation of oil PRICES and interest rates) through THEIR Central Banks and FEDERAL RESERVES.
Americans falling for the ol "good cop bad cop" game in the form of Repub vs Demo, when in fact they all work for the same folks...and it aint the public.
Americans failing to see that N Korea is China's puppet, whose chain they yank at opportune times at the behest of these moneymen.
Is any of this stuff true...who knows...but I'd bet a lotta folks around the world believe that...hell many Americans believe that.
Myself, if any of it's true or not, I believe we still have the best system in the world and would fight for it. I also believe that this conflict will come and go like all the others and the system will keep rolling along.
TT

 

[smurphy]

it's a gamble either way. it's definitely a tough scenario. what can we do to get enough people truly motivated to fight and die for the cause of probably nothing more than delaying the inevtable?

if we had enough people in this country willing to risk themselves to back up their big talk, it would be one thing. the trouble in a much less powerful iraq and subsequent decline in miitary enlisting shows that we really don't have the volunteer forces required to take on such an endeavor.

unless of course we are hit hard and directly from iran first. we are talking about a monster war here. the kind of thing that would require sacrifice at every level. oil conservation, most people of age willing to run off to battle, and leadership more along the roosevelt and churchill line, not the current "final throes" garbage.

 

[gardenweasel]

I'd wager that many of them believe that America is nothing more than the "strongarm" of the international bankers....controlling nations and manipulating world markets (with the manipulation of oil PRICES and interest rates) through THEIR Central Banks and FEDERAL RESERVES.
.
TT

tony...i agree that china is playing the n.korean situation to their advantage....no doubt...

the difference is that deep down,we know...china knows...and n.korea knows that china won`t let n.korea shit in china`s backyard...

they`ll let them flex...and make us uncomfortable....but that`s all there is....certainly for now...

the middle east is another animal altogether...

you could say that we are the puppeteers for the israeli`s...to an extent....we can rein them in...as we did when saddam dropped his scuds...

nobody would be able to rein in saddam with a nuke...or the mullahs...saddam`s been shitting all over the mideast for 2 decades...

he was dangerous....

i don`t think that the "world bank' or the u.s. power brokers or anybody with any sense would look to kindly at a full scale war between the arabs and israeli`s....replete with nuclear and/or biological weapons...

possibly fecking up a large portion of the world`s oil supply for lord knows how long...

are they playing soccer at chernobyl?...lol


"'The people of Chernobyl were exposed to radioactivity 100 times greater than the Hiroshima bomb. The people of the world and Northern Europe were greeted with clouds of radioactive material being blown northward through the sky. Seventy percent of the radiation is estimated to have fallen on Belarus and 10 years later babies are sill being born with no arms, no eyes, or only stumps for limbs. It is estimated that over 15 million people have been victimized by the disaster in some way and that it will cost over 60 Billion dollars to make these people healthy. More than 600,000 people were involved with the cleanup many who are now dead or sick. """""


what happens to "the world markets" if this type of scenario ever happens in the middle east...that would be maybe 100 times worse than chernobyl?...probably 1,000 times?.....

america`s economy tanks....china`s economic boom tanks....

the world markets are thrown into chaos...

look at what 9/11 did...

multiply that times 1,000...maybe 10,000...

might as well sell your car for scrap...and buy a wood burning stove....forget plastics...tires....a million things...

it`s unthinkable

that`s what i mean by,i don`t get it....every pseudo-civilized country in the world suffers tremendously from a scenario like this one...

every economy tanks...

no blood for oil?....

bullshit...

 

[TonyTT]

what happens to "the world markets" if this type of scenario ever happens in the middle east...that would be maybe 100 times worse than chernobyl?...probably 1,000 times?.....

america`s economy tanks....china`s economic boom tanks....

the world markets are thrown into chaos...

look at what 9/11 did...

multiply that times 1,000...maybe 10,000...

might as well sell your car for scrap...and buy a wood burning stove....forget plastics...tires....a million things...

it`s unthinkable

that`s what i mean by,i don`t get it....every pseudo-civilized country in the world suffers tremendously from a scenario like this one...

every economy tanks...

no blood for oil?....

bullshit...

GW,
That pretty much says it all.....that oil in the mideast is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT as far as ALL world markets are concerned. Your statement underscores the impotance of all the manipulation and jockeying that has been going on in that area. I myself can see shedding blood for the "lifeblood" of all world economies....oil certainly IS that lifeblood...and that aint no bullshit.
As far as any nuke mishap occuring in that area...I doubt we see that, I believe the bigboys have a pretty good handle on that aspect of it.
TT

 

[smurphy]

but who among us is willing to shed our own blood for this oil?

 

[TonyTT]

smurphy,

Plenty amoung us have served in the armed forces...some of us have children that currently serve. My daughter just got out, thank God she didn't have to go over there.
I know that many who serve...do so in the name of protecting our American way of life...whatever the mission may be.

TT

 

[gardenweasel]

not serving...the "chickenhawk" argument...is bogus....

because you maybe fell in between the viet nam era and our current military crisis...and didn`t enlist in the military....chose another career path....you have established your career path...and have obligations..

you believe that despots shouldn`t have the ultimate weapon....and say so...

that makes you a chickenhawk?...for having an opinion?...you aren`t allowed?

i guess i`m a "chickencop",too.......never chose to join the force....but i believe in being tough on criminals...i expect the police to protect me...

same with firefighters....

my taxes go toward keeping me safe...i expect it...even though i never did either job...


garbagemen...i didn`t aspire to be a sanutation engineer...but i expect the tradh to be picked up...

i just can`t say it?

 

[TonyTT]

not serving...the "chickenhawk" argument...is bogus....

gw,
On that I agree 100%! Many American Patriots didn't serve in our armed forces, for whatever reason....that doesn't make em any less patriotic and ready to throw down for our nation if it came down to it.
TT

 

[smurphy]

I wasn't mocking, I was asking the question sincerely. Obviously the cause in Iraq has not inspired people to enlist. I personally don't think there are enough people in this country willing to shed their own blood for these unclear campaigns. "Way of life", "freedom", etc have become overused rhetoric that don't seem to get enough people of serving age to run out there or make sacrifices in any manor whatsoever. Iran would be so much of a greater task than Iraq, there would have to be a different calling to get the force required to go. People will have to make major sacrifices at home too. Are we ready to give up our gas guzzlers, pay more of our salaries towards the war effort, take in refugees, have much higher costs on many resources? Are we ready to see family and friends drafted into war?

I'm just sayin.

 

[Master Capper]

Unfortunately, the folks whom are making the decisions to send your family members to war in Iraq and possibly Iran have never served a day in their life and it's doubtful that any of their family will ever shed blood for this country. Would you trust these same folks to lead us into Iran after seeing just how terrible their game plan was in Iraq? People need to begin to call out just where the terror problems begin and thats Saudi Arabia, that is where 80% of all terrorist that have attacked us have come from and Saudi Arabia is the main financier of terror. Still till this day the Saudi Government allows classes to be taught at the University level that breed hostility towards the west and this becomes ingrained in the psyche of these people.