Iraq is a country worth wiping clean!

[Bluemound Freak]

I was watching the History channel last night and saw this very interesting program called Saddam's Arsenal or something like that! I will just tell you this from an American's standpoint, not democratic and not republican, this guy needs to be gotten to. I mean with all the weapons that this man has and the destructive capacity of his arsenal combined with the fact that he is a raving lunatic is enough to start a carpet bombing parade as we speak! I get so sick of all the people that are saying give peace a chance. That is what has been going on for the last 10 years and this moron is still making biological and chemical weapons! Looking at the pictures and footage of all the people that are still suffering and the ones that have passed as a result of this mans tyranny just makes me sick! If this kind of sensless slaughter and killing of innocent women and children is going to be tolerated we just need to go ahead and ressurrect old Hitler and put him into power! I wish that the anti-war and anti-estabilishment folk's that preach this shit about not doing anything and negotiations would realize that you can not negotiate with a liar! I mean it is like talking to a wall! This guy is hopeless and the only solution is to get him six feet under! End of Story!

I must go now, I have work to do but I just wanted to express my feelings about this situation........seems like all the other people in this world are so I felt like it was my time to rant! I think my opinion is just as valuable as Sheryl Crow's

 

[THE KOD]

here ....here....


:yup :yup


Scott King of Dogs

 

[RAYMOND]

have to agree: he must go

 

[loudog]

<img src=http://www.snopes.com/photos/graphics/iraq.jpg />

 

[PRO190]

:yup:nutkick:

 

[MrChristo]

If this kind of sensless slaughter and killing of innocent women and children is going to be tolerated we just need to go ahead and ressurrect old Hitler and put him into power!

So the answer is obviously for a nation with a thousand times the destructive arsenal to go in and kill a few million more

Do you really believe you will depose Saddam? No-one has yet after several attempts.

Just remember who gave him the power and capabilities to build these weapons in the first place.

Ahhh.....Propaganda is alive and well

 

[dr. freeze]

well if we helped him get to power then it is our responisbility to right the wrong.....all the more reason to get rid of this thug

 

[MrChristo]

Don't get me too wrong here.....I understand Saddam is not the nicest guy on Earth and really should go, but you all know as well as I do that this 'war' isn't about Saddam!

Are you telling me that the combined intelligence of the US and Israel can't get into Iraq and 'remove' him?

Human Right abuses? Sure, he's a 'thug', but there are worse going on in Zimbabwe and Central Africa that don't seem to be getting much attention.

The upcoming war is simply a matter of economics.

 

[gardenweasel]

christo

christo

don`t pay any attention to these guys..they don`t have any patience.......the u.n. has only passed 17 resolutions condemning iraq...oops,maybe 18 on the way....and only 20 breeches of the last one.......what`s wrong with these guys....give peace a chance....saddam will come around...but, good natured sarcasm aside,i respect your opinion....and i know you are aware that france`s beligerence on this issue is also economically and politically driven....no altruistic motives....just the fact that they have billions invested in iraq and have a burgeoning muslim population....i don`t feel comfortable leaving our national security,and economic policy in the hands of french political and economic interests.....it is also a fact that there is still a very anti-semitic bent alive and well in germany and france....i`m not jewish,but,if these middle eastern despots are not contained,surely,bacteriological,chemical and or nuclear devices may fall into the hands of terrorists....and that would not bode well for our ally israel...

i don`t understand why acting in your own best interests is such a horrible thing....can we afford to lose another 3 thousand people in another catastrophe?....maybe it will be 10 thousand or 50 thousand next time....we will get condolences from the french,germans and russians...and that`s about all we`ll get...

 

[Chanman]

MRChristo- Just an Opinion & a Question. Saddam has gotten away w/ all this so far because he knows he can. If not the USA, then whom?

 

[MrChristo]

The UN is another totally separate argument IMO.

In my view they simply should not exist! Great in theory, but toally useless in practice. Governments only agree with the UN when it complies with their agenda. Countries don't sign treaties, countries who DO sign treaties lie and break them....It's all political bullshit that helps no-one....But's that's another story all together!

Saddam obviously is hiding weapons and lying about it, no argument there. My query is in understanding why suddenly the big furore to 'clean them out', as it were. Numerous countries around the world have nuclear capabilities (as you know), and as far as total number of [all] weapons, Iraq is well down the list.
It's perfectly acceptable for other countries to continue to produce and stockpile weapons of mass destruction because they have a 'sensible' government??
Is the US now going to 'pressure' France and Germany into destroying their WOMD because they have different political views?
(Imagine a government actually standing up to what they believe and not just blindly following the US )

I'm sure that you would agree that any likelyhood of a missile strike on the US is microscopic compared to the threat of some nutter terrorist simply loading a truck full of explosives and parking it in Time Square, or unleashing some chemical cocktail in the subway, or any other such disasterous act.

As unfortunate as it is, terrorism on a grand scale is here to stay. No amount of dead Iraqi's and/or overthrown governments will change that.

BTW, what happens if Saddam does get 'taken down' (one way or another)?
Do the Iraqi people then 'elect' a new (and surely less sinister!) government, or do the US istall a puppet?...Because hasn't that worked well in the past!

 

[MrChristo]

Chanman.....Gotten away with what??....Being a tyrannical leader? Plenty of them in the world! Stockpiling weapons? Plenty of those in the world too.

PS. I have no gripe with the US as such, 'cause we're right there behind you partner

Also amuses me that we are talking about a 'future' war, when in reality 'we' (the allience of nations involved in this) have been bombing Northern Iraq since last October(ish).

Anyway, I digress.

BTW, I don't consider myself a pacifist by any means. But I believe that by 'creating' a war for Political and financial reasons 'we' are the aggressors. (And yet still managing to act as if we have the moral high ground!!).

As I said before, propaganda isn't all about air-droppiong leaflets

 

[MrChristo]

Sorry....

Sorry....

...just one more point.

Actually agree with [one of] Bluemound Freak's original points.

'Celebrities' using their media access to push their own believes is just plain wrong.

We had a situation here in Australia last month were 6 (Yes..SIX!!) 'well known' Australian actresses sat outside the Prime Minister's house with anti-war placards!!

If me and 5 buddys sat outside his house with a carton and yelled abuse we'd be arrested!! (Not that I would ever consider doing such a thing!)

Phone call to news desk..."Quick! There's a 6 man protest at the Prime Minister's house!.....Yep, only 6, but they're all actresses!"

I'm convinced the media is responsible for keeping the world's average IQ 10 points lower than where it should be.....But, again, that's another story

 

[Pujo21]

I agree six feet under for SADMAN INSANE... but just remember when you liberate all these IRAQUIS they will be coming to The USA..... GOD HELP US !

 

[Chanman]

MRChristo- I disagree, but am not disagreeable.
Just got off work & feelin pretty knackered. Like the exchange tho & appreciate your posts. Pretty hard to keep up w/you Aussies at the bar or the podium. Met good Mates in Thailand too. Not to get off subject but see if the following ring a bell:

http://www.freelancerbar.com/flb/Meet-the-staff.html

http://www.tq1-2.com/

Later...:toast:

 

[TIME TO MAKE $$$]

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. military planners believe the cost of a war with Iraq could balloon to $95 billion or more, eclipsing earlier estimates, administration and congressional sources said on Wednesday.



The White House and Pentagon cautioned that it was impossible to put a dollar figure on the potential invasion and its immediate aftermath because no one knows how long it would take and whether Iraqi President Saddam Hussein will destroy the country's oil wells as he did Kuwait's in 1991.


"In the event force has to be used, it's not knowable how long it would last, what kinds of weapons would be used, how many other countries would be participating," Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld told reporters.


But Pentagon officials have discussed the $95 billion figure with the White House, which could scale back the package as it prepares an emergency spending bill that must then be approved by Congress. "That's the figure that's been put forward," said a senior defense official.


Sources involved in the deliberations said the price tag of a war could still come in at close to the $61 billion spent on the 1991 Gulf War. They called the $95 billion figure a Pentagon "wish list."


"The idea is to find out what we will need in terms of a relatively short, intense conflict," a defense official said, adding that deliberations at the White House were continuing for what would likely be the most intense and precise assault in military history.


It calls for more than 3,000 guided bombs and missiles ripping Iraqi military and leadership targets in the first 48 hours. Nearly 700 long-range Tomahawk cruise missiles, at a cost of about $1 million each, would be launched by U.S. warships and heavy bombers in opening high-tech strikes 10 times more potent than the beginning of the 1991 Gulf War.


In addition to direct war costs, the administration is prepositioning humanitarian supplies near Iraq and assembling multibillion-dollar economic aid packages for Turkey, Israel and other key allies in the region.


Administration officials say they planned to present detailed cost estimates to President Bush in the next week. "It's a big bill," said Robin Cleveland, associate director for national security programs at the White House Office of Management and Budget.


Rumsfeld held out hope that U.S. allies will pick up some of the costs.


But Sen. Robert Byrd of West Virginia, the ranking Democrat on the Senate Appropriations Committee, dismissed talk of a coalition of willing, or "COW for short," saying: "It appears to me that the U.S. is the 'cow' -- the cash cow in this case. We are the ones being milked."


According to internal White House documents provided to key congressional committees, the Bush administration expects to spend about $1 billion on humanitarian relief and reconstruction in Iraq in the first year after any U.S.-led invasion.


U.S. officials say they are preparing for the worst, including up to 2 million refugees in the weeks after any American-led invasion.


They are already sending blankets, water, tents, medicine and other supplies for up to 1 million people to the region. Nearly 2.9 million daily rations were also being stockpiled to meet emergency food needs.


But they acknowledge the cost could skyrocket if Saddam sets the country's oil fields on fire and uses chemical or biological weapons against civilians.


Although the administration is counting on Iraqi oil revenues to help pay for long-term reconstruction, it has yet to say how the United States would manage the oil industry and whether oil income would cover the full cost.


"We don't know what's going to happen in the (Iraqi) oil fields" if there's a war, a defense official said, noting that Iraqi forces destroyed Kuwait's oil infrastructure before fleeing that country after the 1991 Gulf War. The Kuwaitis, he added, spent an estimated $22 billion to rebuild their smaller oil fields after that conflict.


In contrast to the 1991 Gulf War, the United States this time could be forced to pick up almost the entire bill.

COSTS MOUNT

But experts say occupation costs could far exceed the direct military costs of the war itself. The Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments estimated the five-year costs at between $25 billion and $105 billion, depending on the number of U.S. troops on the ground.

Aid packages for Turkey and Israel alone could cost U.S. taxpayers more than $10 billion. Jordan is seeking more than $1 billion in grants and a supply of subsidized oil. Egypt wants duty-free access to the U.S. market for its goods.

Excluding these Iraq-related costs, Bush is already projecting record U.S. budget deficits of $304 billion for the current fiscal year and $307 billion next year.

"No one likes to talk about putting a price tag on national security, but these costs simply cannot be ignored," Byrd said.



now the question lies is it worth it? when poverty and famine besides other issues remain critical in the US or any other nation...

:shrug:

 

[MrChristo]

Cheers, Chanman. Nothing like a healthy, mature debate to cleanse the system every now and then

Sorry to disappoint though mate, I can't honestly say that any of those young ladies have ever rung my bell

 

[Iminforabuck]

You may have not been told this by the government. There are many things you havent been told by the government. The government makes a practice of not disclosing immenent threats on your life. Why? Because widespread panic is a horrible thing. Duct tape and plastic sheeting is about as far as they'll go. Unless it's zero hour, you wont know it.

There's a move afoot across the world to rid the planet of Satan, or aka The United States of America. This move is not limited to the Muslim population. Why are we branded as such? Because we are the land of the free. A capatilistic society whose Gross Domestic Product has enabled it to build the finest armed forces the world has ever known.

The only problem with this progression, has been a tendency for the rest of the world to count on us to 'mop up the spill' whenever a conflict around the world has escalated. A large percentage of the reason why anti-american sentiment is through the roof, can be attributed to this very tendency.

Back to my point. There is a move afoot to wipe Satan off the planet. Millions across the world are secretly in on this movement. Some more secret than others. The move centers on weakening our economy through isolated incidents over a substancial period of time. When an economy weakens, people weaken, governments weaken and militaries weaken. When an economy falters, a country can no longer function. Take a look at Russia if you need proof.

To pull this move off, you need money and lots of it. Where on gods green earth are you going to find the kind of money necessary to topple the greatest nation on Earth? The only answer available is an oil producing nation that has a genuine hatred of that particular country, and further, a nation that is under a dictatorial regime with no system of checks and balances, so that money can be funneled with the greatest of ease.

Iraq is the honey pot of this whole operation. If you think it's not, then go right on living in your own little fantasy world. For now, you have the freedom to do so. This plan will continue on as long as we sit back and listen to pacifists around the world who hold up their signs, and countries who have billions of dollars invested in the Middle East.

If you want the kind of freedoms you've had to be available to your children and theirs as well, you best damn well realize that were now required to fight for it.

God bless the current administration for tackling issues that the one before it would not

God Bless Tony Blair who is willing to put his career on the line for a cause that is right

God bless every single man and woman overseas who is putting their life on the line so people back home can continue to have the freedom to hold up a picket sign.

God Bless America

 

[MrChristo]

Suddenly I'm an extra in a recruitment film!

At least we agree on why the war will go ahead. As you say, oil, control of oil and the funds from oil. Absolutely, agree 100%.

It's clear that you are a very proud American, but I feel that in your rhetoric you may have misjudged a few points.
Sure, you have the largest band of armed forces the world as ever known, but I'll argue it's not for this reason, nor because you are "expected to mop up!" that certain factions in this world are against the US. In fact, I believe it to be quite the opposite.

You said it yourself....A capatalist society. Fine, you live under what you believe to be the best system in the world. The question is; Why try to force it onto everyone else?
Resentment towards the US comes not because your military 'mops up conflicts', but because in the past you have jumped in where there is no need to be, when it was seen as an opportunity to introduce the capatalist system, under the guise of 'liberating' the people!

***** Just as an aside: I was watching Sports Centre tonight and they showed a piece on Toni Smith. (The College player who will not face the flag during the National Anthem because of what she believes in.)
A Vietnam Vet. walks up and waves a US flag in her face.
In the interview with him that followed he said he was "truly offended" because the flag stands for "Freedom and democracy."

I have no great views either way on the issue itself, nor would I ever disparage a Vietnam Vet. (I am good friends with one myself), but what struck me was the absolute hypocracy with which he spoke.
Where, then is her 'freedom' to express how she feels? Where is her democratic right to voice her opinion?

******

Same deal at work here. Where were the Iranian peoples' rights and freedoms to live in a Muslim society and worship the Ayatollah as a God?

Where were (are?) the Palastinian's rights and freedoms to live on their own land?

Anyway...I'm getting slightly off track here, but you can see where I'm coming from. It's not jealously that is fuelling this fire.

Maybe after all this we all agree on some level that this conflict has been inevitable.

As Dr. Feeze said "it is our responisbility to right the wrong"...and maybe it is, but I'm not sure this is the correct way to go about it, because it's going to cost an unimaginable loss of life. (And I don't mean just in the next couple of years.).


PS.

Tony Blair who is willing to put his career on the line for a cause that is right

John Howard doesn't get a mention?

 

[StevieD]

To get back to Blues contintionthat his opinion on this is as important as Sheryl Crows. Of course it is. All of our opinions and views are important and we all have a right to express them.

Entertainers have a soap box to stand on that the rest of us don't. I feel that they not only have a right but a duty to express their opinions. Whether they fall on the Left or the Right of any political or social issue. That is what makes us who we are.

There is some Hawk actor taking out ads to praise Bush and bombing Iraq. Does he have a right to do this? I think he does.