NBA SUN 032209 early thoughts - value hunting (NO PICKS INSIDE)

jlippens

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Slice: have you found accuscore good for much of anything? When I started capping (not long ago, five months!) I was interested in this until I found it to be, well, less than in any way reliable. It was accurately predicting sides and totals at around 45%---meaning you'd make a slight amount of money FADING it (after juice)...or lose A TON playing it.

This was through err...100 odd games CBB, NBA and CFB combined, playing the strongest 3-5 plays based on predicted differences from the spread. I didn't layer it with any other methods or my own capping to filter plays, as I simply wanted to see the numbers it would spit out. These were not games I had money on (and thankfully so).

To be sure, it could have been any number of issues (or simply variance) as to why it was way off, but I just figured it was better to devote my time elsewhere than putting any stock in it.

Have you had a different experience? My reply wasn't meant as a negative in general, it's all about finding the best ways to cap games. Have you found success in applying it in certain ways?
 

jlippens

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Note: as I am capping this, the number has already risen a half point to a point at a number of books (Bookmaker and TheGreek, two respected books) so it's likely that in line with my prediction the sharp early money is on the OVER.

I'm buying a unit now. I'll try to get the writeup done ASAP, just wanted to let everyone know about the line movement.
 

JCWhy

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I just spent the last hour number crunching and researching the Thunder/Wolves game and ended up with a final number of 200. Making it a No Play for me. GL Jlip on your over.
 

Slicer

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Slice: have you found accuscore good for much of anything? When I started capping (not long ago, five months!) I was interested in this until I found it to be, well, less than in any way reliable. It was accurately predicting sides and totals at around 45%---meaning you'd make a slight amount of money FADING it (after juice)...or lose A TON playing it.

This was through err...100 odd games CBB, NBA and CFB combined, playing the strongest 3-5 plays based on predicted differences from the spread. I didn't layer it with any other methods or my own capping to filter plays, as I simply wanted to see the numbers it would spit out. These were not games I had money on (and thankfully so).

To be sure, it could have been any number of issues (or simply variance) as to why it was way off, but I just figured it was better to devote my time elsewhere than putting any stock in it.

Have you had a different experience? My reply wasn't meant as a negative in general, it's all about finding the best ways to cap games. Have you found success in applying it in certain ways?

Not a problem, I take no offense here is what I do.

I have only used it for Conference NCAA play, NBA Play and now Tourney Play

My results:

For conference play it yielded some suprising trends that I was able to ride to some good profits, especially in mid major conferences like the Horizion favs (10-4) Horizon overs (8-2), A-10 Unders (15-7)and playing on Big East Dogs (11-6-1), West Coast Overs (8-1). In the total month or so that I worked on it with conference NCAA play it yielded around 53% ATS Sides and 50% on Over/Unders, of course that sample size was about 1000 plays combined and nobody plays every game/every night on both sides and totals.

For the NBA it has been hit or miss, take for example variances of 5+ off the vegas line, at one point the system was 5-1 on Unders when this occurred, but now it has lost 5 straight. However some trends still are working and trends that are horribly off, I fade until I see a reversal of the trend. I've tracked it on about 200 ATS Side plays and 200 Over/Unders and it is hovering around 50% on both, however it does quite well with dogs and unders. Next year I am going to employ another tracking category on games where it picks the dog as an outright winner to see how it does there as well.

One trend current is playing any dog that presents itself as a 4.0 or greater variance of the line, currently 7-1. I wish I had started it at the beginning of the season for both NBA and college.

If you go on their website their is a public DLR report that you can download for free each month that will give you a statiscal breakdown of the variances by sport/by team/ by situation.

I wouldn't say using it is the end all be all of playing, I use it to focus in on key situations and then apply my normal handicapping and information gathering, using message boards, data mining sites, trend analysis etc to help establish my plays which sometimes go against the system and sometimes reaffirms the play presented by the system.

I will say this, I'm glad I have the tool to access for the information, it cuts down the time to look at every game by really highlighting the ones with the best variances and or pointing out the variances where the play is to fade the pick (especially if reasoning behind fading it is backed up with additional info.)

I will have this for the next year cause I bought their special $79 package which will take me up to the conference tournaments for next year in NCAA. Their main claim to fame is baseball so it'll be interesting to see how it performs and whether it is up to par as their reports indicated for the 07-08 season.

Other than that, I post the info here for folks, maintain an interactive version of my spreadsheet on google documents, as I base my records off closing lines of my book which also leads to some last minute changes of the plays strictly by the variance numbers just to maintain the accuracy of the tracking method.

But yeah it's not my only factor into my plays, just the starting point for me.
 

JCWhy

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I ended up with a number of 197 for the Cavs/Nets so I locked in the over for a unit at 189.5.

I also locked in ASU +120
 

rragga2727

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:shrug: looking at hous /sa houston has been tightening up the d lately avg around 85 points a game allowed, but their avg is 97 on the road well above their home avg..san antonio too has been tightening up the d avg around 85 points , but their consistant avg is 92. history shows the unders have with 22 of the last 28 going under.onescoring quarter can turn a 177 game over gs/no 215 might deserve a look preliminary shows g.s 9-1 last road under,7-1 under as dog,under 17-6 on sundays. gs avgs 102 on the road against the avg no is above avg. n.o. avgs 95, but 85 in their last 3 . g.s does allow 112 on the road. so maybe the question is if no. keeps g.s under a hundred can g.s keep n.o. under 112 clev/nj briefly 190 clev is more frequently giving up 100 points and of course out scoring the opponent n.j. has been an over machine of late 13-4 , 6-2 at home. they too have been well over a 100 cleveland will get theirs , but will n.j. show up always the question. thanx ax n everyone for the play , been riding the under machine that is milwaukee 4 straight points for have dropped 15 points and 8 against of late...fyi :eek:
 

pkkingster15

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Looking over the card, one of the ones that caught my eye was the Clippers/Raptors total. At 209, it appears right on, but I think there could be some value here.

When I evaluate the current state of the Clippers, it appears clear that they have no set rotation, and are in a state of disarray as a team. However, their rotation of big men cannot be ignored, and a lot of their defense depends on the play here. I would guess that Marcus Camby and Chris Kaman will share time on Chris Bosh, and they will be the centerpiece of the defense the Clippers will play. Camby is returning gradually from a hamstring injury, and hasn't been himself, but he still will be a viable option in shutting down the paint. His presence alone will help stop Calderon's penetration, as well as keep the rest of the defense at home on shooters for Toronto.

Camby's presence in the lineup, or lack thereof, has produced some interesting trend numbers here. When digging into the over/under numbers of late, it shows that the over is 4-0 in the Clippers last 4 games. However, Camby was out for one of these games, and one of the others was against the Warriors (who can go a long way to distorting these types of analysis). In the other two, one was against Detroit, in which the two teams shot 49% and 54% respectively, and had a 55 point garbage-time fourth quarter, and STILL played to a total of only 198. The other was against the Nets, in which both teams shot over 50% and both shot over 43% from 3-point range. This game again only hit 212. It seems that because the Clippers like to play at a moderate pace, the Raptors will either have to really speed it up or shoot much higher than their season average of 45% field-goal percentage, especially if the Clips can hold Bosh under 20.

The Raptors had a stretch of eight straight overs broken just three games ago, at which point they have gone under two of the last three. They have not played to a total of 209 since March 11th, and each game has been a blowout. Chris Bosh has been very hit or miss lately, having games of 35, 27, 18, and 15 in his last four games. I don't anticipate a big game from Bosh, and I think Camby will also be able to neutralize a lot of what Shawn Marion does on the court, getting to the paint.

I have not run any numbers yet, this is a purely situational and flow-of-the-game analysis. Also, a lot of this depends, in my mind, on Camby. He has missed a couple of games of late, and it hasn't been announced until just before gametime. At first glance, I have this game at around 204. Just thought I'd throw this game into the mix. I'll include a couple of useful trends here too.

-Head to head matchups earlier this year ended in totals of 172 (@ LAC) and 200 (@ Tor).
-Under is 8-2 in Clippers last 10 road games vs. a team with a losing home record.
-Under is 5-1 in Raptors last 6 games as a home favorite of 0.5-4.5.


Off to :sleep: for me...
Looking forward to breakin down some more tomorrow!
 

axp59

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I want throw this out there for my friend jlipp:

in 2008, two very bad teams (<.300) facing each other and each rested at least 1 day and where the O/U set at 200 or less.

O/U 7-6 average total 193.5 and the over covers by 1.5...projected total for the game is somewhere around 195.

OKC/MIN qualifies in this spot for Sunday. the current 199 number is close to the 200 filter I chose.

just an fyi pal

here it is if you want to run it:

100.*Average(o:points < points@team and season)<30 and 100.*Average(oo:points < o:points@o:team and o:season)<30 and season=2008 and site =home and total<=200 and rest>=1 and o:rest>=1
 

jlippens

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Okay, the lowdown:

Reasons to like OKC/Minny OVER

* Pace. Pace is the single most important determining factor in reliably capping Over/Unders:

Minnesota is 8th overall in home possessions per game
OKC is 6th overall iin away possessions per game

We have two of the fastest paced teams in the league facing off at a number that is at or just below 200. If you wanted, you could probably stop reading now. The pace of this game should be decidedly uptempo, and that alone is the single strongest determining factor.

* Points/Points allowed (strange to say the raw numbers are always over-considered, but the league-wide rankings are strongly in our favour):

OKC is 11th (above average) in PPG on the road: 98.8
Minn is 26th in PPG (terrible) allowed at home: 104.1

MINN is 18th (slightly below average) in PPG at home: 99.1
OKC is 28th (terrible) in PPG allowed on the road: 108.1

Projection: Scoring averages are weak models, but these both point to the teams each scoring north of 100 points given they are playing against defences far worse than their average opponent.

*Shooting percentage/allowed (percentage matters much more, and here, again, the league averages are strongly in our favour)

OKC is 9th (above average) in FG% in road games: 36.8%
Minn is 26th (terrible) in FG% allowed in home games: 38.5%

Minn is 15th (average) in FG% in home games: 37.1
OKC is 28th (terrible) in FG% allowed in road games: 40.9%

Projection: Both teams shoot above average percentages for the game (especially OKC). This factor, combined with the projected pace of the game, are what make me want to sell points on this line, to be honest.

Relevant Trends:

Over is 4-1 in Timberwolves last 5 vs. a team with a losing S.U. record.
Over is 20-8 in Timberwolves last 28 games vs. a team with a winning % below .400.
Over is 19-15 in Timberwolves home games.

Over is 4-0 in Thunder last 4 vs. a team with a losing S.U. record.
Over is 20-8 in Thunder last 28 road games vs. a team with a losing home record.
Over is 19-13 in Thunder away games.

Over is 2-1 in the matchup this season--and the single under being the 3rd game of OKC's season. At this point they were a complete offensive disaster. Through their first six games they averaged 86.6 ppg, including only 88 against Minnesota, and their O/U went a combined 1-5.


Recent Team History, and why it doesn't matter:

Minnesota-- Already covered above. They have had a brutal recent schedule against a number of elite teams who have *no* interest in running themselves across the court to beat a bunch of kids in a game they already know they have in the bag. Then they have a hyper-inflated total against a Knicks team that doesn't run as they used to and the teams shot a sparking 12-46 (26.1%) from 3 (yes, that's not a typo). Then a game against Golden State where the Wolves scored 37 points at halftime against the worst defensive team in the league. Life returned to normal in the second half with GS giving up 59. The first half simply just bizzaro world.


OKC:

I don't think that you can look at anything to do with OKC games sans Durant-- they are a completely, completely different team without him. So, we have the three games since his return, along with the season long strong road OVER record (19-13). Here are those three games:

SA 76/OKC 78 (154 32.5 points (nice!)--UNDER the 186.5)

* Combined 6 of 26 shooting from 3 (23.3%). SA, for reference, is first in the league at 39.2%. OKC is mediocre at 35%.

* OKC (in Durant's first game back after significant layoff) played to SA's pace, the 5th slowest in the league.


CHI 96/OKC 103 (199-- 3 points UNDER the 202)

* 37 combined turnovers
Average combined turnovers: 23.3 per game

* 5-21 (23.8%) combined shooting from 3 (they average 38% and 35%, respectively)
OKC allowed average 36.47%
Chicago allowed average 33.7%


Utah 101/OKC 94 (195--4 points UNDER the 199)

* 3pt: Combined 6 for 23 (26%--seeing the trend?)
* Okur, the Jazz' second leading scorer at 17.6 ppg, left half-way through the 2nd quarter. Okur is also a defensive liability, and the lack of his presence should have led to fewer easy baskets.


What do these UNDERS have in common:

Teams in playoff contention refuse to run against the worst teams in the league (OKC, Minnesota included) in the crunch time of the season.

Recap: I believe that the team's recent histories not only don't show any new found dedication to defence, but has actually worked to create significant line value in this game. I could see this game easily going 10-15 points over the posted total, possibly more. We all know nothing is guaranteed, but I feel strongly about this going OVER the 199.5-200.
 
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barts185

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For some reason, as I was replying, it looks like the post to which I was replying was edited and the posting software didn't seem to like that I was quoting a message which had been edited.

In any event, I was just going to point out that OKC has only been a road favorite once this season. That game was back in January, and they lost to the Clippers 104-107 as 3.5 point favorites.

Take Care,
Bart
 

Flandroy

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games between poor teams like okc/min (<0.300) tend to over generally - it's o/u 52-26 this season and 178-134 since 2002/3.
similar over trend for lac/tor - home teams with <35% against team with <30% are o/u 35-15 this season and 125-93 since 2002/3.
 

picksline

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22 march early thoughts

Oklahoma-Minesota (over 199 )(play of the day)

TWO TEAM HAS NO PURPOSE..Minesota last 3 game is @ HOU L 88 - 107 ...@ NOH L 93 - 94 ..@ SAS L 86 - 93 ...This 3 team wants to get a good place for the play offs..And they are all defence team..Al jefferson is still out. and brewer..

vs. UTA L 94 - 101 ..vs. CHI L 96 - 103 ..vs. SAS W 78 - 76 ..are oklahomas late 3..3 team wants to get a good place for play offs and they make defence..( Chicago not a good defence)

DURANT_GREEN_WESTBROOK + GOMES-LOVE-SMİTH-MİLLER ..I cant see any defence man..They all want to score and show ..This will be a basic play and we will see more than 200 points..no defence no defence
edit link:admin
 

LookKaPyPy

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Rockets @Spurs 177
Low number yeah...can they stay below? 44ppq in order to stay clear. 3.6ppm. Rockets avg 1.93 possesion/minute, Spurs 1.88...that's 3.63 ppm...their D has stepped up compared to std numbers and are actually allowing less % i latest few (Rockets 41%, Spurs 43%)...their game a week ago ended 88-85 with Spurs shooting 66% (6/9) 3p...5 of those by Finley (5/7) who was in a hot streak with 67% 3p shooting on 4 straight games (3 after that, and he's doing 34%). What I love about that game is that they had only 13 fastbreak points combined, which is natural to how both sides play.
Reason why Spurs can beat the Rockets is that they're litte more efficient on the backcourt side, while Rockets are bit less efficient on the backcourt D. Artest and Battier are excellent ball-on defenders, Brooks is a good defender if he tries to...inside is clogged by big men, and the absence of late-game spark Manu is also significant.

Huge under trends with Rockets @Spurs, 3-13 o/u since 2000 and with both team taking time in setting upp their big men, not much running and great D on both sides, low might be the way to go.
 
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LookKaPyPy

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The problem with Spurs under is that I don't see either team breaking off to a big lead, and there is a risk for OT or "last-min-fouls", but it can work both ways, as a 1 possesion game down the wire might actually lead to even more clock milking.
 

LookKaPyPy

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One site with predictions, been also inconsistent and missing by alot when they do miss...


Last night predictions - actual score:
Bobcats 189 - 191
Bulls 211 - 216
Grizz 179 - 192
Bucks 190 - 180
Magic 216 - 213
Suns 218 - 224
--------------------------
Tonights predictions - % for total
Twolves 196 - 59%u
Spurs 173 - 61u
Raptors 202 - 67u
Nets 193 - 60o
Hornets 209 - 66u
Kings 205 - 59u

and the one sticking out
Heat 167 (no % numbers)
 

Gibson7

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I still cant find a line on the Miami/Det game but the normal Sunday trend seems to be the UNDERS and the DOGS. I will take Miami if they open as a +4 or more DOG. Det is very inconsistant this year and I cant see any reason for them to get "hiped" up for this early morning game. :SIB
 

kenman

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How about this trend in the OKC/MIN game today...

Play on the FAV in revenge of previous match up that they lost by 20pts or more. 18-2 SU/16-3 ATS
PLAY ON -- OKC-1

P:margin<=-20 and 20090101<=date and F


no direct link to pay service sites:admin
 

eeeerock

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I still cant find a line on the Miami/Det game but the normal Sunday trend seems to be the UNDERS and the DOGS. I will take Miami if they open as a +4 or more DOG. Det is very inconsistant this year and I cant see any reason for them to get "hiped" up for this early morning game. :SIB
Detroit has only won like 1 game on Sunday for the whole season....DeETROIT ON SUNDAY = FADE

Play Miami no matter what the # is.
 
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