Nevada's big gamble -- whether to legalize pot

[dr. freeze]

actually i do volunteer and do pro bono work.....much of what i have seen i have referred to already....i do and have done work with rehab clinics and crisis centers for women and children

see a lot.....also see a lot in hospitals i am in.....i see a lot of effects that drug use has on relationships....does that make me pompous? does it make me pompous to see physical abuse wounds on women and children secondary to substance abuse? i think not.....is their some contempt towards drug use? yes...i feel anger towards this and so do a lot of people.....at the same time -- many of my friends use drugs and it does not affect all people the same way -- how many freaking times do I have to make this point??????

nowhere did i say i deserve to be someone's hero....i was merely defending my line of work when you all but declared all physicians scum.....good grief -- talk about reading into things....

i do not look at people on the street with contempt....i look at them with pity as does anyone -- saying that they are bottomfeeders and financial drains on society does not imply contempt -- it is reality....their drug habits directly influence their behavior in many cases and that drains money from our economy....how can anyone dispute this? you can talk to any doctor in any big city and they will tell you srory after story of what drug abuse does to people and their children....i would rather enable people so that they can be productive and cultivate healthy relationships with their spouses and children....the first step in doing this is to discontinue drug use which in some cases is almost impossible.....compliance for withdrawel treatment is horrible and effective treatment takes lots and lots of effort and can really be frustrating at times.....yes this does cause contempt in me for the drug use....i admit.....i hate drug use....it is hurting millions of americans directly and indirectly

judging from your essay, you seem to desire a pat on the back yourself.....can you repeat all your military experience for us one more time?

sorry about the smoking a joint comment......i apologize and shouldn't have said that.....as with a lot of things on here, i and others say things we don't always mean.....

 

[VaNurse]

FDC: Thanks! I couldn't have said it better!

 

[Mickey's Picks]

ddubs.......

Without getting too specific or detailed as it is too personal and painful, just let me say that I have first hand experience with someone needing marijuana STRICTLY for MEDICINAL purposes. To make an IGNORANT blanket statement that such a person does not exist and to say that such is the case makes one a LIAR in my mind speaks volumes about who you are and what your narrow view of the world is. In fact, I have long taken issue with those who make such moronic statements such as "if anyone says this or that they're lying" as this is nothing more than a sickening display of pomposity as it takes a single persons OPINION and tries to pass it off as some universal, undeniable and indisputable truth. Truly a repulsive mindset. If there's one thing I've learned in life it's that there are very few universal truths when it comes to people and their related feelings, emotions, drives, needs, etc. I've learned to give a great deal of leeway in that regard as we are all different and one can never know what it is truly like to walk in the shoes of another. Heck, most people spend their lives never quite figuring themselves out much less anyone else. This thread and comments such as yours continue to demonstrate that we are far from being a very tolerant and understanding society.

Sidenote to Dr. Freeze.......

Your actions belie your feelings. Don't confuse hard or dedicated work with understanding, tolerance or compassion. If you are to be believed then you are a very good PROFESSIONAL. That however has absolutely no correlation with being a very good PERSON.

 

[edludes]

Dr Freeze-I would like to know why you think you'd be making six figures in "business".What business?Who on Earth would hire you?Attitudinal traits are the #1 single most important determinant in making a person successful in business,young son,NOT INTELLIGENCE!You would cause as many waves in the work place as you do here on a weekly basis with threads like this one.Guess what?People who do that aren't usually on the fast track up the ladder.They make enemies (sound familiar?) Your comments about drug useage are childlike in their lack of depth,and accuracy.

 

[ddubs]

Mikey's Pick:

I'm not going to go into a war of words with you, as this thread is getting old. And for you to verbally attack me like this, speaks to ME in volume about you as a person. Give me a break. But just read my statement again.

"And to Dr Freeze's defense, IMHO, there is not a whole lot of MEDICINAL USE for MJ. You find me someone who tells me that he/she is smoking MJ for nausea/pain and not for the EUPHORIC effects, and I'll find you a LIAR"

I did not say there is NO medicinal use for MJ, did I?? IT is proven to lower the intraocular pressure to help with glaucoma, it is proven that it increases the appetite/mood/immune response of HIV Wasting Syndrome. Good God, go back and reread my post. But for you to think that a person HAS TO use MJ as a substitute for all the medicine out there available, you, sir, are IGNORANT yourself. I AM sorry this thread reminded you of your painful past, but direct your anger somewhere else. And for you to pass judgement on me as a person from one statement you misread, you are even more ignorant than the people I'm talking about. I state again, you find me someone who tells me that he/she is smoking MJ for nausea/pain only and not for the EUPHORIC effects, and I'll find you a LIAR.

:nooo:

I've got nothing against MJ. If an Illinois law is passed for Medicinal MJ, and one of my AIDS/HIV, Cancer, Glaucoma patients asks me for MJ, I don't think I would have any problems with it. Hell, you want to smoke it recreationally? Let me know when and where, and if I'm on vacation I'll toke up with you. It is not a personally issue with me.


I'm done with this thread. Ridiculous.

 

[Mickey's Picks]

ddubs:

You're done with this post..... fine. I expect then that you won't respond. Not necessary as you apparently didn't/don't get it. My reading abilities and comprehension are just fine but it appears that yours are sorely lacking.

My post referred to one assinine statement you made in your post. Nothing more. For you to bring up all the dribble that you did in your response post and to then make assumptions about my interpretations or feelings about anything other than what I posted, which related, (again for your benefit), to only one statement that you made, is a misinterpretive stretch of quantum proportions on your part and totally irrelevant to what I posted.

Since you obviously don't practice what you preach by having not re-read my post, I'll spell it out for you once again:

I have experience with an individual who needed marijuana for medicinal purposes only to alleviate nauseau brought on by a terminal medical condition. You don't know the era or the grisly details and I will spare all of us anything more than what I stated. This individual used it strictly for the nausea and I can assure you that a euphoric rush was the farthest thing from the truth in this case and we all had to jump through considerable hoops to obtain the vile stuff, with Dr's approval and assistance.

That in essence, with added elaboration, is what I posted. Your response to this factual situation, stated beforehand in your initial post and firmly, and smugly I might add, repeated in your follow-up post was this:

"You find me someone who tells me that he/she is smoking MJ for nausea/pain and not for the EUPHORIC effects, and I'll find you a LIAR"

As I stated before, and like you will reiterate, that statement is not only moronic and ignorant but reeks of a sickening repulsive pomposity that your opinion about something makes it an indisputable, unquestionable fact. You're way off-base and out of touch and you have twice now showed a complete lack of compassion or understanding of the real world. Enough said.

 

[ddubs]

OK, I lied. Kinda feel like I need to respond. I guess that makes me a LIAR, too.

All these colorful, descriptive adjectives, all for me?? Anger management, my friend, anger management. Like I said, I'm not gonna go into a war of words with you. But if it makes you feel better letting it out, so be it. No skin off my back. Your opinion of me, or interpretation of my statement don't bother me at all.

Again, sorry this has brought back painful memories. I worked on the HIV floor at Cook Cty and Illi Masonic for a month each time during my training. I've seen my share of terminally ill patients, even outside of those places. Many of those patients smoke MJ, and you probably know how easy it is to get a hold of some in the city. The general concensus from those patients is that meds worked for them, but MJ worked the best because of the multiple physiological effects it brings. I'm not discounting the fact that this person needed MJ to relieve the nausea in his/her terminal illness. Maybe this happened years ago when there were not as many different anti-nausea meds available as now......whatever. Maybe smoking MJ worked better than any other meds out there that were available. But you are not gonna convince me that the euphoric effect of smoking MJ did not help this person get a better sense of overall well-being, besides relieving the nausea (not that I have any problems with that, I'm all for anything that helps patients alleviate their suffering). And THAT was my point. I'm not going to bore you with the detailed physiology of nausea and vomiting, but these are mostly centrally-mediated symptoms, and where does THC act at??......Yes, your Central Nervous System.

Perhaps I should have clarified on it, but damn! Take a chill pill, smoke a joint, whatever. If you don't like my opinion from my own personal observation and training, fine. But your argument sounds hell of a lot more convincing when spoken in a cilivized manner.

Quote by Mickey's Picks: You're way off-base and out of touch and you have twice now showed a complete lack of compassion or understanding of the real world. ..............WOW


OK, that's it from me. RELAX, MAN

 

[dr. freeze]

Dr Freeze-I would like to know why you think you'd be making six figures in "business".What business?Who on Earth would hire you?Attitudinal traits are the #1 single most important determinant in making a person successful in business,young son,NOT INTELLIGENCE!You would cause as many waves in the work place as you do here on a weekly basis with threads like this one.Guess what?People who do that aren't usually on the fast track up the ladder.They make enemies (sound familiar?) Your comments about drug useage are childlike in their lack of depth,and accuracy.

make enemies on an online forum discussing political views???....a little different than other interpersonal relationships....

i don't have any enemies on here -- at least i don't consider anyone my enemy.....i like people who are real and believe what they say and do......

i don't care if i disagree with someone 100% on every issue....if i met them out one night we would probably get along great -- well with most people anyway....

yes i could be making well over 6 digits right now....anyone can if they want.....i got a good friend here who didn't even go to college and he is making 300,000 at the age of 21 contracting here in Houston...i could quit today and do that instead.....i simply made the point because doctors were accused of being greedy by FDC and i stated that we could be making more money doing other things....

as ddubs said, this thread is getting belabored.....hard to make our points when no one has seen what we see....and ddubs has seen a lot more than me.....trust me when i say that if you saw what is going on in a lot of families your hearts would really hurt too for victims of drug use

 

[ddubs]

Well said, Freeze.

Nothing personal, Mickey. Come to think of it, I'm intrigued by your story. If it is not too much for you, I wouldn't mind talking with you about what happened, perhaps thru email. Maybe I will learn something new.

Jack has my email. It's not working right now, but this weekend I will get it fixed.

Peace out.

 

[Mickey's Picks]

o.k. ddubs......

Damn man......

I was gonna let this die and then you had to go and make another "know-it-all" statement:

"But you are not gonna convince me that the euphoric effect of smoking MJ did not help this person get a better sense of overall well-being, besides relieving the nausea..."

There you go again, acting the resident expert when you have no knowledge of the facts. This was a gag, cough fest when using that crap. Heartbreaking to watch. No reason to detail further but I can assure you that there was not one iota of bliss. This was not a scene out of a Cheech and Chong flick. I'll tell you who DID get off on the whole thing.......the significant other who we ending up figuring out had a greater want for the stuff than did the patient.

Look, I rarely post as you can tell. Not really my bag engaging no names and was really just browsing when I ran across this thread. Not really an angry guy either. I just despise people who talk in absolutes and man that statement as well as your follow-ups smack of someone who has all the answers and friend I will tell you that you don't. Biggest problem with the medical profession is this general attitude cocktail of having all the answers with a "don't question me" chaser.

You sound like a relatively young guy so maybe there's hope for you yet. Fini.

 

[fatdaddycool]

Let me be very clear on one issue, I believe that people of all professions deserve a measure of respect I do not delineate between professions.
Ddubs--from previous experince and the hockey forum I hope you know you are my guy. You are a class act and I am not trying to offend anyone and I apologize to you and Freeze if I made an off-color remark and I usually do so sorry. Go Hawks, Bears,Cubs, Bulls, Sox. Send me a a soggy beef combo from Jays with Giardinera, (it's off of Nagle and Irving), a Gyro and a hot dog from the Dog Walk on Milwaukee with sport peppers of course, hot dog form the Wiener Circle, and a pizza from Suparossa, and we will be cool......LOL God I miss Chi-town. Anyway sorry about that little off track.

Freeze,

i do not look at people on the street with contempt....i look at them with pity as does anyone -- saying that they are bottomfeeders and financial drains on society does not imply contempt -- it is reality....

Do you have any earthly idea how disheartening that statement is freeze. Dr. Freeze, you have handled this discussion well enough to deserve an explanation so I will afford you one. As you obviously are quite intelligent so please understand me when I say I do not think all doctors are greedy or lack compassion or steal, nor do I think you will. However, your statements about the general public, people of lesser social strata, bottom feeders, drug users, reeks of some serious social misgivings on your part. There is not a trash man, quality assurance inspector, service station attendant, or any pot smoking heathen that wants your pity. "Pity",...."Pity", how dare you put your ego ahead of the common man. It is because of this attitude and your complete lack of understanding or addressing any statements made that this will be my last post in this thread. I truly hope that someday you will understand why people work in the caregiving industry. Why sometimes ordinary people can commit such selfless acts of kindness that it brings tears to your eyes, and others are blinded by it. I must say, for a moment I actually understand what you mean when you say you pity someone, because I honestly pity you. Good luck in whatever you do in your life I wish you the best.... Good day.

 

[TIME TO MAKE $$$]

This is where I come in and say guys, why don't we all go to a bar and drink back a few, and later on hit a ripper joint and smoke a CHING/CHONG cannon

:drinky: :weed:


I really respect you folks for the way this thread has been handled. As long as we all respect one another's opinion, and no BASHING is involved, it is all good.

CRIS,

Have you been getting my emails?

And don't lie I know you smoke weed dude!

LMAO

 

[ddubs]

FDC, no offense taken, seriously. It's all good. I completely agree with you (or was it AR182) that I'm no better than a person picking up trash cans making an honest living, and I have never viewed myself as better than anyone else. I do apologize to you, as well, if my remarks offended you. I always try not to verbally attack someone who is merely stating his/her opinion. I thought this was a pretty good, civil discussion until the last day or so. Maybe it's time to lock this thread.
I'm in the burbs now, but still reminisce about my single days living in the city here and there. The late nite runs to the Burrito Palace (I think that's what it's called) off of Clark and Fullerton.....mm mm!



Mickey, if that's how you interpret my response, good for you. As I said, how you see me as a person/doc from just a few remarks doesn't bother me. I actually got a few chuckles out of it as they were completely untrue. But I can't please everyone and make everyone like me. Maybe there's hope for you, too, who knows. BTW YOUR assessment of the biggest problem with the medical profession is way off, but let's not get into it, I don't feel like getting barked at again.

 

[dr. freeze]

fdc.....dont twist my words.....you assume that i have a condescending attitude towards anyone with differnt professions than mine...never have I said that nor meant it....

my pity is felt towards the guy standing at the street corner begging for money and then when he gets his money he spends it on his drug addiction.....or the guy who doesn't work at all and lives off the government because of his addiction.....

and yes those people demand compassion....we all demand compassion at various points in our lives.....this is not condescending....if you interpret it as such you are putting yourself in a position of judging my heart's intention.....
,

 

[TIME TO MAKE $$$]

In reaction to medical cannabis access referendums on the ballots in
Arizona and California, former presidents Gerald Ford, Jimmy Carter, and

George Bush signed a letter stating that they ``categorically oppose''

access to cannabis for its many proven therapeutic uses such as the

prevention of blindness and epileptic seizures .


Their chief concern was that legal medical access would send the message

that cannabis is safe. The presidents can, however, lay their safety

concerns to rest because the scientific literature overwhelmingly

confirms that cannabis is both an effective and safe medicine.


The Cannabis Safety Profile


The journal PHARMACOLOGICAL REVIEWS reports that decades of research

prove that, "Compared with legal drugs...marijuana does not pose greater

risks." Yet based upon mortality statistics, we can safely conclude that

cannabis is one of the safest medical drugs known, for, while

prescription drugs, defined as safe by the FDA, kill up to 27,000 and
aspirin up to 1,000 Americans per year, cannabis kills 0 per year .


When we know the facts we can understand why in 1988, after extensive

review of the scientific literature, the DEA's own administrative judge

Frances Young concluded that ``Marijuana is one of the safest

therapeutically active substances know to man.''


Opponents of legal cannabis access would have us believe that there is

not enough research available to determine its safety. Nothing could be

further from the truth. Cannabis is one of the most thoroughly

researched drugs in history, and the evidence gathered over the

centuries clearly proves that it is safe:


* The Indian Hemp Drugs Commission Report (1894): an exhaustive

seven-volume, 3,281-page report that concludes: "Moderate [cannabis] use

produces practically no ill effects."

* The Panama Canal Military Study (1916-1929), amassing extensive data

on the health impact of cannabis smoking upon American soldiers

stationed in Panama, recommended that "No steps be taken by the Canal

Zone authorities to prevent the sale or use of Marihuana." The research

also concluded that, "There is no evidence that

Marihuana...is...'habit-forming.'"

* The LaGuardia Report (1939-1944), commissioned by New York City Mayor

Fiorello LaGuardia, which included evidence gathered over thousands of

years, concluded that "Smoking marihuana does not lead to addiction...

does not lead to morphine, heroin, or cocaine addiction" and that "the

publicity concerning the catastrophic effects of marihuana smoking in

New York City is unfounded."

* The Baroness Wootton Report (1968), commissioned by the Advisory

Committee on Drug Dependence of the United Kingdom Home Office,

concluded, "There is no evidence that...serious physical dangers are

directly associated with the smoking of cannabis." The report also noted

that "Cannabis use does not lead to heroin addiction" and that "there is

no evidence that [can- nabis]...is producing in otherwise normal people

con- ditions of dependence or psychosis, requiring medical treatment."




The HARVARD MEDICAL SCHOOL MENTAL HEALTH LETTER reports the

findings of other major cannabis studies:



In three major studies conducted in Jamaica, Costa Rica, and Greece,

researchers have compared heavy long-term cannabis users with non-users

and found no evidence of intellectual or neurological damage, no changes

in personality, and no loss of the will to work or participate in

society.

The Jamaican study states that, even as cannabis use in Jamaica "is

pervasive" and is used "in heavier quantities with greater THC potency

than in the U.S.," its use is "without deleterious social or

psychological consequences."


What's more, the three studies cited, the largest human cannabis studies

to date, also revealed that heavy long term cannabis users scored

slightly higher on IQ tests, had slightly lower rates of illness and

cancer, and lived longer on average than non-users. Users also proved to

be more relaxed and sociable than non-users . The best

evidence indicates, contrary to GovtMedia disinformation, that cannabis

is safe and good for you.


In line with the findings of the Panama Canal study and the LaGuardia

Report, current research confirms that the addictive potential of

cannabis is very low. The journal TRENDS IN PHARMACOLOGICAL SCIENCES

states that research shows cannabis has "limited potential for

development of...psychological dependence due to the weak reinforcing

properties of Delta-9-THC." BRAIN RESEARCH journal observes that

"cannabinoid dependence and withdrawal phenomena are minimal." [


Research proves that cannabis is nontoxic. For example, in the journal

FUNDAMENTAL AND APPLIED TOXICOLOGY ,Dr. William Slikker, director

of the Neurotoxicology Division of the National Center for Toxicological

Research (NCTR), described the health of monkeys exposed to very high

levels of cannabis for an extended period:



The general health of the monkeys was not compromised by a year of

marijuana exposure as indicated by weight gain, carboxyhemoglobin and

clinical chemistry/hematology values.

When THE ARKANSAS TIMES asked Dr. Merle Paule of NCTR about

evidence of cannabis toxicity and the health of the monkeys in the

study, Dr. Paule said, "There's just nothing there. They were all fine."


The journal TOXICOLOGY LETTERS published a study that found no link

between cannabis smoking and lung cancer. The seven researchers in the

study concluded:



It has been suggested that marijuana smoking is a proximal cause of

respiratory cancer. However, these intimations have not been borne out

by epidemiological investigation.

Not only is the evidence linking cannabis smoking to cancer negative,

but the largest human studies cited indicated that cannabis users had

lower rates of cancer than nonusers. What's more, those who smoked both

cannabis and tobacco had lower rates of lung cancer than those who

smoked only tobacco -- a strong indication of chemo-prevention . Even more, in 1975 researchers at the Medical College of Virginia

found that cannabis showed powerful antitumor activity against both

benign and malignant tumors (the government then banned all future

cannabis/cancer research). In fact, the NEW ENGLISH DISPENSATORY of

1764 recommends boiled cannabis roots for the elimination of tumors

. Powerful evidence that cannabis not only does not cause cancer, but

that it may prevent and even cure cancer.


The few studies that the GovtMedia drums into the public mind over and

over, which claim to show that cannabis is a harmful drug, are almost

all the work of the the government's top hired gun, Dr. Gabriel Nahas.

The NEW ENGLAND JOURNAL OF MEDICINE described Nahas's work as

"psychopharmacological McCarthyism that compels him to use half-truths,

innuendo and unverified assertions." The JOURNAL OF THE AMERICAN MEDICAL

ASSOCIATION also condemned his work, stating, "Examples of biased

selection and...omissions of facts abound in every chapter."

Conclusion:

Not only does the best scientific research overwhelmingly confirm that

cannabis is both an effective medicine and a safe drug, but that it may

be both chemo-preventive and therapeutic and generally beneficial to

health. What this shows us most clearly, in light of the consensus to

the contrary, is the enormous power of a Big Lie.


With its vast resources, the "GovtMedia elite" are able to fabricate and

fob off a pharmacological fraud against both cannabis and the public

interest. Through sheer repetition and consistent suppression of

contrary information, they are able to construct an edifice of public

consensus which even the hardest scientific facts fail to topple.


The truth is no stronger than the ability of true information to surpass

the public distribution of false and misleading information. The

GovtMedia has a greater ability to distribute a Big Lie than any other

sector of society has to distribute the truth. However, this report

right here contains copious quantities of carefully referenced

scientific facts that consistently and conclusively confirm that

cannabis is safe --thereby exploding the GovtMedia's Big Lie.


As truth is only as powerful as it is known, do all that is in your

power to make these powerful facts known, that we might put an end to

the destructive and illogical prohibition of the proven safe and

effective drug cannabis, for possession of which 10 million Americans

have been arrested since 1965 .