Ohio State at -6

[BobbyBlueChip]

Totally agree that the Big 10 is strong this year, but they do have two teams in the BCS games, so everyone takes a step up in class during the bowl games.

I would look up to see how conferences have faired ATS when they've been selected to two BCS games, but I know IE's got it at his fingertips.

 

[gman2]

derek:

cant really take too much issue with what youve posted.
only thing i will say is that there's more of a "gap" between the ohio state defense and notre dame defense than there is between the notre dame offense and the ohio state offense. and you could even argue that ohio state has better pure talent on the offensive side of the ball than notre dame. but obviously, we know that notre dame is certainly a better offensive team in terms of execution and production and weis is a far better offensive coach than tressel. thats obvious. but we're not talking about an osu offense that is devoid of weapons. their two receivers are as good as any duo in the country. i think the "gap" in offenses is smaller than the gap in "defenses" in this game. all in all, i dont see how either team runs away with this game, but do think ohio state has a better shot to cover. we'll see though.

 

[thom24ad]

Totally agree that the Big 10 is strong this year, but they do have two teams in the BCS games, so everyone takes a step up in class during the bowl games.

I would look up to see how conferences have faired ATS when they've been selected to two BCS games, but I know IE's got it at his fingertips.

2 teams in a BCS along with 7 teams in Bowl Games

 

[Sun Tzu]

Umm there are 8 Big 12 bowl teams.

Proof right there that those numbers dont mean diddly.

 

[thom24ad]

Derek,
Like I said before our argument will be settled on the field. After the game I will be sure to let you know if your wrong as I would expect the same thing from you.

 

[thom24ad]

Umm there are 8 Big 12 bowl teams.

Proof right there that those numbers dont mean diddly.

agreed- how in the hell did the Big 12 get 8 teams?

 

[thom24ad]

As you should...! Your best win is Michigan and have two loses.

Are losses are more creditable #2 and #3 in the country... :mj07: we should be playing Oregon

 

[DerekNJND]

derek:

cant really take too much issue with what youve posted.
only thing i will say is that there's more of a "gap" between the ohio state defense and notre dame defense than there is between the notre dame offense and the ohio state offense. and you could even argue that ohio state has better pure talent on the offensive side of the ball than notre dame. but obviously, we know that notre dame is certainly a better offensive team in terms of execution and production and weis is a far better offensive coach than tressel. thats obvious. but we're not talking about an osu offense that is devoid of weapons. their two receivers are as good as any duo in the country. i think the "gap" in offenses is smaller than the gap in "defenses" in this game. all in all, i dont see how either team runs away with this game, but do think ohio state has a better shot to cover. we'll see though.

I agree with ya on the game, I wouldnt be suprised to see either team cover, but either team winning by more than 7 would absolutely shock me.

I see where you're going with the "gaps" analysis, but you have to admit, if that was a clear cut way to pick games apart, there wouldnt be sports books. Numbers on paper are exactly that. ND and USC featured two top 5 offenses, BUT everyone said ND's 90 something ranked defense, that was like 60 teams lower in rank than USC's, would allow USC to cover. Didnt happen. Those were bigger gaps than there are between ND and OSU, far bigger. Nd didnt have ANY statistical edge in that game, while ND DOES have the better offense here.

 

[thom24ad]

I agree with ya on the game, I wouldnt be suprised to see either team cover, but either team winning by more than 7 would absolutely shock me.

I see where you're going with the "gaps" analysis, but you have to admit, if that was a clear cut way to pick games apart, there wouldnt be sports books. Numbers on paper are exactly that. ND and USC featured two top 5 offenses, BUT everyone said ND's 90 something ranked defense, that was like 60 teams lower in rank than USC's, would allow USC to cover. Didnt happen. Those were bigger gaps than there are between ND and OSU, far bigger. Nd didnt have ANY statistical edge in that game, while ND DOES have the better offense here.

"Gaps"- the Gap between OSU's offense and ND's defense is totally going to be the difference in this one. We're going to be able to match up in points. I am more confindent about the Buckeye defense getting stops where as ND defensively has been lacking. What is ND to do when they can't stop the OSU offense due to that joke of 11 guys the Irish put out on the field that are refered to as ND defense because you will not out score OSU with that Buckeye defense and yes it is the best defense the Irish has faced all year and if your either to blind, drunk, or just plain stupid you will be able to tell during the
bowl game. The key to the game will be can the Irish stop the Buckeye offense. And the Buckeye offense finished strong. Which is much more than can say for NDs defense. Your offense is good even great but your not an complete team with that defense. Plain and simple its the reason why the Irish will lose.

 

[DerekNJND]

" that Buckeye defense and yes it is the best defense the Irish has faced all year and if your either to blind, drunk, or just plain stupid you will be able to tell during the
bowl game. .

Whats with the insults man, its just a football debate? I wont stoop to that level with you, its too easy.

But sticking to football, USC played better defense against UCLA than OSU played against a good team all year. Take that to the bank. ND has seen a better team and played well enough to win. End of story.

OSU's offense has played better? Against Northwestern and Illinois? I think the Northwestern defense is full of all-stars from the special olympics pal.

I will just insult you by making you look dumb instead. How bout this one. That "sorry bunch of 11 idiots that ND calls a defense" or whatever you called them, has forced MORE RED ZONE TURNOVERS than your coveted bucktooths all year. THATS what wins games, not shutting playing San Diego State at home, and only PLAYING FOUR ROAD GAMES ALL SEASON.

 

[thom24ad]

If you don't want the insults then give credit where its do. I give props to NDs offense and company. But your nutz if you think this isn't the best defense ND has seen this season. ND has their joke games just as OSU. And I don't consider ND defense much better than any of those teams well maybe a little. Relax, just a joke. Okay so maybe they got some turnovers in the red zone but OSU has been known to beat teams that have a struggling defense. Your not going to be able to stop our offense unless the 11 idiots play the best game of their lives, but this is a bowl game. And you need to remember the Patriots defense coordinator went to the Browns not the Irish so if you think there is going to be some kind of defensive miracle that?s going to happen I got news for you it is not.

 

[DerekNJND]

If you don't want the insults then give credit where its do.

Okay so maybe they got some turnovers in the red zone but OSU has been known to beat teams that have a struggling defense. Your not going to be able to stop our offense unless the 11 idiots play the best game of their lives, but this is a bowl game.

I dont want the insults because I'D RATHER DISCUSS FOOTBALL. oke

OSU has been known to beat teams with a struggling defense? Name one team OSU beat that has an offense ranking as high as ND's?

I wont hold my breath waiting and neither should anyone else, because THERE ARE NONE.

11 idiots? You are so off base with this comment that I dont even know where to begin. Causing red zone turnovers is a sign of SMART football players, and funny how they FORCED MORE TURNOVERS IN THE BIG GAMES?? USC, MICHIGAN...hmmm is the bowl game a "big game?"
I'll leave that to you to figure out.

Again 11 idiots. Where do you go to school , Dayton?? I guarantee those football players at ND did better on their SATs than YOU did. I'm not on this forum to say ND has smart football players, but you obviously know NOTHING about colleges and universities in general if you think "idiots" go to ND. One of the reasons their football program has struggled is because they maintain higher admissions policies and athletic academic standards than any other program in the TOP 25 right now. To be one of the hardest universities in this country to be admitted into, AND have a top 5 football program is something OSU and DAYTON cant even IMAGINE.

 

[AR182]

of course there are a few exceptions....but defense wins championships...in all sports....

there are tons of examples with great defenses having shut down dominating offenses....

that said...i have no opinion at this point on the nd/osu game...

 

[DerekNJND]

of course there are a few exceptions....but defense wins championships...in all sports....

there are tons of examples with great defenses having shut down dominating offenses....

that said...i have no opinion at this point on the nd/osu game...

The eagles had the best defense in the NFL the last few seasons...how many rings do they have?

even MORE examples of great offenses running all over great defenses, ESPECIALLY IN COLLEGE

 

[gman2]

Name one team OSU beat that has an offense ranking as high as ND's?
.

at the time of the ohio state/michigan state game, i believe the spartans might have been in the top 5 in the nation in total offense but im not arguing against your point.

 

[DerekNJND]

I would mean ranking as of now obviously...whoever played in the KICKOFF classic lead the ncaa in total offense at one point....

not tryin to be a smarta$$ just in my nature

 

[gman2]

I would mean ranking as of now obviously...whoever played in the KICKOFF classic lead the ncaa in total offense at one point....

not tryin to be a smarta$$ just in my nature

well if thats your criterion, then notre dame's loss to them looks even worse.

thats why i think you DO have to take into account how a team was playing at the time of the game.

notre dame lost to a good michigan state team, not the msu team that was a train wreck in the final weeks of the season.

and you can make a strong case that the mis-managed clock and field goal attempt at the end of the 1st half of the osu/michigan state game was the beginning of the end for msu.

 

[thom24ad]

I
OSU has been known to beat teams with a struggling defense? Name one team OSU beat that has an offense ranking as high as ND's?

I wont hold my breath waiting and neither should anyone else, because THERE ARE NONE.

Back and Forth
It works both ways buddy. Name one team ND has beat that has an defense ranking as high as OSU (14.8 ppg) And yes we all know Notre Dame rep because we have to listen about it almost every Saturday in the fall. By the way Dayton is private and catholic, sound similar at all. Its all going to be settled on the field, not worried.

 

[DerekNJND]

Well the BCS, the polls, and whoever makes the SOS sure as hell dont take "how the team was playing" into account. ND still has terrible rankings in the BCS SOLELY because of that game. All that matters for SOS rankings and the BCS is where the team ended up..

I agree with you though. It SHOULD mean something, but it doesnt. You are right, the MSU that beat ND and planted that poison flag at the 50 was not the same team that bowed down in the 2nd half and quit.

But to look back and say MSU's offense is, or ever was better than ND's this year is questionable

 

[thom24ad]

well if thats your criterion, then notre dame's loss to them looks even worse.

thats why i think you DO have to take into account how a team was playing at the time of the game.

notre dame lost to a good michigan state team, not the msu team that was a train wreck in the final weeks of the season.

and you can make a strong case that the mis-managed clock and field goal attempt at the end of the 1st half of the osu/michigan state game was the beginning of the end for msu.

When he's right, he's right and then the Gman is right...I've learned the mistakes of arguing with Gman best bring your A game Derek