Ok Denm Obama or Hillary?

DOGS THAT BARK

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Never said Obama shouldn'tt be elected because he's black--Think powell-rice and others would be quite qualified.
Only reference to black was he's won every state with over 20% population--DC would vote in Marion Barry despite criminal record over any GOP candidate--and that blacks would still vote around 90% Dem if David Dukes was on ticket as Dem VP-

Now which of these would you say is incorrect:shrug:

Now that we have that out of the way----explain to me what credentials he has that you are looking for in a pres--beside enthusiam-motivation-and Oprah.

How many of the late night crowd (those get home each night from the bars, streets ect) and flip on those late night motivational speakers and go WOW thats easy and send in their money--only to find (as they wake up just intime for Oprah) that it requires more than just words and wish they hadn't phoned in that CC # and never even open package when it arrives.

America became what it is because of sacrifices by the very people liberals try and run out of their terriritory--not the Tony Robbins of the world.

I'll look forward to your reasons why he's remotely qualified--I'm always subject to change my mind if you can show me the way.
 

Chadman

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Just checking in after a long weekend of basketball, and seeing some of the most frustrating, sad posts I've ever seen in this forum. I am so angry and there is so much to post to that I don't even know when to start.

It really saddens me to see the intolerance, the racist comical theories, and the ignorance that this thread is laced with.

I think I'll just go play some basketball, instead of freaking out. My God, some of you guys need to realize we are no longer in the dark ages, or at least take your blinders off and accept it. The fact that some of you will have a hand in selecting who governs this country moving forward is a frightening thing.
 

hedgehog

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I have not read this thread, but I will. I just wanted to start with the fact the you are the DUMBEST FVCKER ON MADJACKS EVER. I HAVE NO TOLERANCE FOR YOUR IDIOCY.

We do not need the most liberal person in the Senate who is an ex-muslim converted to christianity, the worst of the worst according to al-quaida or a woman who cries and is over emotional about everything. What would either one of them do if we have another 911? I am sure Osama will want to negotiate with al-qaida and the crybaby will just stand in front of the camera and cry. We need a strong ex Army man to do the job of President, read a little about John McCain, he did not even cry when the Vietnamese almost ripped his arm off. The single thing that should scare the US the most is islamic radical extremeists and McCain will kick their ass into next week. The terrorists are waiting for the democrats to take over and they will be laughing all the way to their next attack on our homeland, wake up people...
 

escarzamd

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....kind looks like a little bush (apologies for using the M.O. of KOD)

Heard Edwards and Obama meeting up today, or soon............NC has a lot of its own delegates, Penn looming..........tune in for a rumor about John Edwards, U.S. Attorney General......
 

escarzamd

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....... wake up people...

I'll give ya a dose
But it'll never come close
To the rage built up inside of me
Fist in the air, in the land of hypocrisy

Movements come and movements go
Leaders speak, movements cease
When their heads are flown
'Cause all these punks
Got bullets in their heads
Departments of police, the judges, the feds
Networks at work, keepin' people calm
You know they went after King
When he spoke out on Vietnam
He turned the power to the have-nots
And then came the shot

Yeah!
Yeah, back in this...
Wit' poetry, my mind I flex
Flip like Wilson, vocals never lackin' dat finesse
Whadda I got to, whadda I got to do to wake ya up
To shake ya up, to break the structure up
'Cause blood still flows in the gutter
I'm like takin' photos
Mad boy kicks open the shutter
Set the groove
Then stick and move like I was Cassius
Rep the stutter step
Then bomb a left upon the fascists
Yea, the several federal men
Who pulled schemes on the dream
And put it to an end
Ya better beware
Of retribution with mind war
20/20 visions and murals with metaphors
Networks at work, keepin' people calm
Ya know they murdered X
And tried to blame it on Islam
He turned the power to the have-nots
And then came the shot

----- the Rage is relentless.......
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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Hedgehog_450x513.jpg


....kind looks like a little bush (apologies for using the M.O. of KOD)

Heard Edwards and Obama meeting up today, or soon............NC has a lot of its own delegates, Penn looming..........tune in for a rumor about John Edwards, U.S. Attorney General......

More than a rumor I'm afraid--I can't think Edwards thought he had a shot at nomination--he's been unemployed since last time--and is doing what politicians do best--

--and speaking of politicians
War:
Would someone who projects his actions on war sitution with no one knowing what will occur in next 9 months--be a stategic/calculating commander in chief--or a politician pandering to their base--especially in light of being only candidate left to never set foot in either miiltary arena?


in his book Audacity of Hope (page 130), Obama explained that even as a legislator in the minority, "You must vote yes or no on whatever bill comes up, with the knowledge that it's unlikely to be a compromise that either you or your supporters consider fair and or just."

Hmm do actions speak louder than "political words"

For example, in 1997, Obama voted "present" on two bills (HB 382 and SB 230) that would have prohibited a procedure often referred to as partial birth abortion. He also voted "present" on SB 71, which lowered the first offense of carrying a concealed weapon from a felony to a misdemeanor and raised the penalty of subsequent offenses.

In 1999, Obama voted "present" on SB 759, a bill that required mandatory adult prosecution for firing a gun on or near school grounds. The bill passed the state Senate 52-1. Also in 1999, Obama voted "present" on HB 854 that protected the privacy of sex-abuse victims by allowing petitions to have the trial records sealed. He was the only member to not support the bill.

In 2001, Obama voted "present" on two parental notification abortion bills (HB 1900 and SB 562), and he voted "present" on a series of bills (SB 1093, 1094, 1095) that sought to protect a child if it survived a failed abortion. In his book, the Audacity of Hope, on page 132, Obama explained his problems with the "born alive" bills, specifically arguing that they would overturn Roe v. Wade. But he failed to mention that he only felt strongly enough to vote "present" on the bills instead of "no."

And finally in 2001, Obama voted "present" on SB 609, a bill prohibiting strip clubs and other adult establishments from being within 1,000 feet of schools, churches, and daycares."
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2007/02/the_everpresent_obama.html

--maybe just a few present votes here and there--try side stepping issues 130 times with "presents"
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/20/us/politics/20obama.html?partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

So do we have that visioned leader he tries to project--or a politician wanting to be on both sides of issues to keep his political aspirations intact.:shrug:


Will get to immigration and economics later--but would like to see him handle H before I wade in too heavy :)
 

escarzamd

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solid post........did you read the book? just curious.....

he is a politician, to be sure....first and foremost. you can't flip-flop without doing one of them first, so sslickness capacity or not, he hasn't made it there yet.........but how can anyone throw a perfect game anymore:shrug: .......


I have to find a link to that RS article (hillary Clinton: The New Nixon).......I'll just bang it out myself soon if unsuccessful.........interesting stuff.
 

djv

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I O you mis read what I said. When they first all got in race the Dem's looked like America. Only thing missing was Asia. The Rebs looked like what they do all the time a bunch of white guys. Now that some primaries have been run were left with.
 

bryanz

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Never said Obama shouldn'tt be elected because he's black--Think powell-rice and others would be quite qualified.
Only reference to black was he's won every state with over 20% population--DC would vote in Marion Barry despite criminal record over any GOP candidate--and that blacks would still vote around 90% Dem if David Dukes was on ticket as Dem VP-

Now which of these would you say is incorrect:shrug:

Now that we have that out of the way----explain to me what credentials he has that you are looking for in a pres--beside enthusiam-motivation-and Oprah.

How many of the late night crowd (those get home each night from the bars, streets ect) and flip on those late night motivational speakers and go WOW thats easy and send in their money--only to find (as they wake up just intime for Oprah) that it requires more than just words and wish they hadn't phoned in that CC # and never even open package when it arrives.

America became what it is because of sacrifices by the very people liberals try and run out of their terriritory--not the Tony Robbins of the world.

I'll look forward to your reasons why he's remotely qualified--I'm always subject to change my mind if you can show me the way.

I never said you did say that Obama shouldn't be elected because he is balck. You didn't read what I said or didn't understand it. your post suggest that his appeal and success is race based ... you talk about the PC crowd and new rules, like the opposition can't take off the gloves ???? If it gets close this will get ugly.... in the prim and gen elections.... There is fear in your post . you talk about the blacks that have voted for him, what about the whites that have voted for him ? You try to suggest that he is not qualified.. Why isn't he ??? He's about the most qualified I have seen since Reagan.....
 
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bryanz

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Never said Obama shouldn'tt be elected because he's black--Think powell-rice and others would be quite qualified.
Only reference to black was he's won every state with over 20% population--DC would vote in Marion Barry despite criminal record over any GOP candidate--and that blacks would still vote around 90% Dem if David Dukes was on ticket as Dem VP-

Now which of these would you say is incorrect:shrug:

Now that we have that out of the way----explain to me what credentials he has that you are looking for in a pres--beside enthusiam-motivation-and Oprah.

How many of the late night crowd (those get home each night from the bars, streets ect) and flip on those late night motivational speakers and go WOW thats easy and send in their money--only to find (as they wake up just intime for Oprah) that it requires more than just words and wish they hadn't phoned in that CC # and never even open package when it arrives.

America became what it is because of sacrifices by the very people liberals try and run out of their terriritory--not the Tony Robbins of the world.

I'll look forward to your reasons why he's remotely qualified--I'm always subject to change my mind if you can show me the way.

you sound like Hillary and Bill ..
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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No Doc Did not read the book--

Sorry bryanz--so use to everyone jumping down my throat on racial gambit- I read more into it than there was--my bad.
Every year they have lots of political props on states voting that are easy pickin as the media dictates the initial lines--had lots in 04 and getting my #'s together in for 08.
Not speaking about you--but hard to put up trends or stats here--without those that put their hands over their ears--and go LALALALA--racist
--everytime their PC aspirations are threatened.


bjfinste--Not Me-
I think better position would be head of Medicare fraud investigation, pro bono :)
 

bryanz

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so what are you trying to say Dogs, take a tony robbins course, have oprah endorse you and any black man in america can be president... jesse and al could have used that info. where were you when the brothers needed help ? :mj07:
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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I never said you did say that Obama shouldn't be elected because he is balck. You didn't read what I said or didn't understand it. your post suggest that his appeal and success is race based ... you talk about the PC crowd and new rules, like the opposition can't take off the gloves ???? If it gets close this will get ugly.... in the prim and gen elections.... There is fear in your post . you talk about the blacks that have voted for him, what about the whites that have voted for him ? You try to suggest that he is not qualified.. Why isn't he ??? He's
about the most qualified I have seen since Reagan
.....

He's the most qualified?-- believe I asked you or anyone else why? before--

"I'll look forward to your reasons why he's remotely qualified--I'm always subject to change my mind if you can show me the way."

--and still waiting forv your response:shrug:
 

escarzamd

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Here's that "New Nixon" article.....like I said, the kid is a little snarky, but very funny and insightful in the fear and loathing tradition.......long post.........sorry:SIB


18067042-18067045-slarge.jpg


The New Nixon
Hillary has taken her strategy straight out of Tricky Dick's paranoid, press-bashing playbook
MATT TAIBBI

Posted Feb 07, 2008 2:58 AM

I'm in Las vegas, at yet another stiflingly full-of-shit Democratic debate, just breaking up now. The show tonight was a new low, with a suddenly cuddlesome troika of Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama and John Edwards spending two hours giving each other friendly establishment back rubs while NBC played the Big Brother role, going to court to keep that meddling Dennis Kucinich off the stage. Afterward, the first flack to waddle into the spin cave is Mark Penn, Clinton's chief mouthpiece, one of Washington's most depraved and expensive lobbyist-whores.
Penn is the Democratic version of Karl Rove. He even looks like Rove, only he's fatter and more disgusting. Up close in a forum like this, his eyes bulge out of his fat, blood-flushed head; his neck spills out of his too-tight shirt collar; and he generally looks like Jabba the Hutt, his suit bursting at the seams, with only the bowl of snackable live toads suspended at arm's length missing from the picture.

After Obama's win in Iowa, everyone familiar with the Clintons and how they operate could have set their watches by the Hillary camp's inevitable decision to start reminding America of the dangers of electing a black teenager on coke. There is now a sudden sense on the campaign trail that the electoral chaos of the last year is a thing of the past, that this race is once again back in the hands of scaly Washington pros like Penn, the whole contest reduced to a series of empty PR ploys on the level of a staged crying fit and a series of back-channel character attacks. The Clintons are back, running things as they always have, with their back-stabbing, inside-baseball mastery, their fanatical, almost religious pursuit of the political fork in the road, their boundless faith in ruthless corporate bagmen of the Penn genus and other such faceless electoral point-shavers.

This all becomes punishingly obvious when Penn, smiling broadly, leans into the hive of spin-room microphones and announces with a straight face that Barack Obama's refusal to describe himself as a "chief operating officer" of the government bureaucracy marks a "critical distinction" in the race.

"But if that's the big distinction," I say, "doesn't that underscore how alike they are on the big issues ? like free trade, health care and their exit strategy in Iraq?"

Penn reiterates that Obama is nothing but a visionary, before adding a Nevada-specific line about the state's federal radioactive waste dump. "And I think we saw some distinctions too on Yucca Mountain, which is an important issue in this debate!" he says.

"So some amorphous thing on leadership and Yucca Mountain are the distinctions between the main Democratic candidates for the presidency?"

Penn pauses, then smiles. "Those are the distinctions discussed in this debate," he hisses.

So this is what it has come to. Conventional wisdom holds that when Hillary shed tears in New Hampshire, seeming to crack under the pressure of being pounded daily in the press as an unlikable loser, she struck a powerful chord with female voters who saw her as a victim of a male-dominated culture determined to punish a strong woman for daring to seek power. And who knows, maybe there's something to that ? but by the time Hillary reached Nevada, I was strongly tempted not to give a shit. To see Hillary Clinton as a martyr for anything is to give her far too much credit for weakness and not nearly enough credit for her strengths, one of which happens to involve resurrecting, against all odds, the ghost of Richard Nixon.

WHAT PEOPLE FORGET about Clinton is that she is basically a Republican at heart. She campaigned for Barry Goldwater once upon a time and even canvassed poor neighborhoods in Chicago looking for "vote fraud" by Democrats. She was president of the College Republicans at Wellesley. In 1968, at the height of America's most intense cultural debate in a century, she only abandoned the Republican Party because it backed Dick Nixon instead of her favorite, Nelson Rockefeller.

Which is ironic, because as a presidential candidate herself, Hillary has basically run exactly Nixon's 1968 campaign. Her stump speech from the get-go was all about the "invisible Americans," a nearly word-for-word echo of Nixon's revolutionary "forgotten Americans" strategy of that year. Like Nixon, she was targeting a slice of the electorate that had chosen to stay on the sidelines during a cultural war and secretly yearned for someone in the political center to restore order; it's no accident that Hillary was on the opposite side of every issue that sent lefties to the streets in the Bush years, from the war to free trade to the Patriot Act.

Her much-reported line about Martin Luther King needing LBJ to complete his "dream" was just another salvo in that effort, a subtle message to the public that the "change" she talks about so incessantly is only legitimate when it comes from the inside. Lest anyone think this is a fanciful analysis, listen to what Hillary wrote back in the day, in her senior thesis at Wellesley, which looked at the work of a Chicago community organizer named Saul Alinsky, who had offered her a job. "I agreed with some of Alinsky's ideas," she wrote, "but we had a fundamental disagreement. He believed you could change the system only from the outside. I didn't."

Ironically, after Alinsky's death, the man who carried on his legacy as a community organizer on the South Side of Chicago was none other than Barack Obama, who took a $13,000-a-year gig similar to the one that Hillary turned down.

And while there's an argument to be made that none of this old history matters that much now, there's no denying the clear difference in the two campaign styles. In Barack Obama versus Hillary Clinton, we've basically got Kennedy-Nixon redux, and I mean that in the most negative possible sense for both of them ? a pair of superficial, posturing conservatives selling highly similar political packages using different emotional strategies. Obama is selling free trade and employer-based health care and an unclear Iraqi exit strategy using looks, charisma and optimism, while Hillary is selling much the same using hard, cold reality, "prose not poetry," managerial competence over "vision."

In Hillary's case, the Nixon analogy extends in almost every direction. To listen to a Hillary stump speech is to hear a tale of endless confrontations with enemies; at one event I attended in Iowa, she railed against the Republicans who tried to crush her over health care, the Chinese who tried to stifle her over her "women's rights are human rights" speech, a pharmaceutical industry that bucked when she passed a law requiring that drugs be tested for use on children, and a press that tells lies about her. The speech conveniently ignored the fact that Hillary (a) takes more money from Big Pharma than any candidate in the race and (b) voted to keep most-favored-nation trading status with China despite her human-rights concerns, and that she and her husband were bogged down in a scandal involving campaign contributions from the Chinese.

Hillary's campaign is and always has been presented as a pitched battle for political survival against bitter enemies, and no reporter who has watched the way she stage-manages every last utterance and generally treats the press like a gang of rattlesnakes (which they are, of course) can possibly fail to appreciate the similarity to Nixon's own troubled, hypervigilant relationship with the fourth estate.

Moreover, like Nixon, her "invisible Americans" deal is carefully couched to appeal to the fears of her own version of the silent majority ? fears about energy prices, layoffs, health care, terrorism. It's a conscious decision to contrast her approach to Obama's hokey-inspirational politics ? hence the relentless emphasis on the part of stooges like Penn on her "preparedness" and leadership, as opposed to Obama's airy "vision" and "hope."

From time to time, you hear Democratic insiders talk about this dynamic openly, as in the case of a "leading Democratic strategist" who appeared in the papers after New Hampshire claiming that Obama could have won a knockout if only he'd played the game right and concentrated on economic fears.

"Instead, he went for this professorial, highfalutin stuff," the flack told reporters. "A lot of these euphoria candidates, once they hit a bump, it's down the toilet."


AND DOWN THE TOILET is where we are, for sure. Watching Barack Obama in Nevada gave me a sick feeling. I bought the hype, and now I could see the straw sticking out of his suit.

Here's Obama, a black man, coming into a crucial debate having watched his white opponent and her henchmen slyly remind voters about what he was doing "in the neighborhood" as a kid and then point out that MLK couldn't secure his legacy without the help of a white man with a title. It was nasty, calculating politics, and any man with a pulse would have taken her to task for it here. But in the debate, Obama responded meekly by praising Hillary three times in the first five minutes, avoiding the word "black" as though it were a used Kleenex, and refusing to point out that he'd ever been against the war in Iraq.

While Obama ? apparently spooked back into say-no-evil "general election mode" by his New Hampshire ass-whippings ? bared his vagina to the state of Nevada, Hillary coolly mopped the floor with him. She refused an invitation to describe him as "prepared" for the presidency ? a slight that was especially biting given that Obama had just moments before described his opponents as "capable" ? and reminded voters that her opponents might not be prepared enough to save them from two wars, a foreclosure crisis, a recession, terrorist threats and a host of other scary shit.

Afterward, audience members had trouble identifying just what it was that they were left to choose between. "Before I came here I was vacillating between the two," Jocelyn Cortez, a civil rights lawyer in Vegas, tells me. "But I think Clinton did a really good job of giving us concrete elements of her plan."

Like what?

"Um, like, she was saying, I think she was going to set aside a certain amount of money for, um . . . I think it was for, like, a bank to help people. . . . It's kinda weird, but it was like the numbers spoke to me, the fact that she had thought about these numbers. And I love Obama, I think he's a great orator, but sometimes I think he went a little overboard with the, uh. . . ."

"The what?"

"The oral beautification of the whole thing."

Right, that. The whole prose-not-poetry deal. It's working for Hillary, just like her tears gambit worked. After all these years in public life, the only time Hillary Clinton sheds a tear is when her own political career is on the line? I didn't notice her crying when kids started coming home from Fallujah in rubber bags because of a war she voted for.

That was where it all came rushing back. Hillary's stunning victory had been in the books for mere minutes before we were all suddenly reminded of all the reasons we came to hate the Clintons over the years ? why there were scores of very smart people who by November 2000 were actually willing to pull a lever for Ralph Nader rather than go anywhere near a Democratic Party ticket. Seven years is, it turns out, a long time, just long enough to forget that Clinton fatigue was what saddled us with George Bush in the first place.

The crying incident was Hillary's own personal Checkers speech, a painful bit of self-mutilation tossed off on the last step before the political gallows ? a pure sea-cucumber tactic, scaring us off with a display of vulnerable green guts. We missed the chance to finish her off, and now she's back in charge, setting the tone for a campaign that gets dumber and meaner and dirtier by the day. Thanks to you, New Hampshire, the Clintons still have us to kick around.
 

bryanz

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He's the most qualified?-- believe I asked you or anyone else why? before--

"I'll look forward to your reasons why he's remotely qualified--I'm always subject to change my mind if you can show me the way."

--and still waiting forv your response:shrug:

if you don't think he is remotely qualifed, you are not looking at the information that is available to all of us on the net.. you have a computer, take a look ... What has he done in his life accept take a tony robbins course and get oprah to back him ???
 

bryanz

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Dogs, you should be for Obama.... He is going to finish the Bush doctrine as told to the American People before he was president... Obama now & Bush then have so much in common. Bush said he was a UuNideer, not a Deevideeer.. no child left behind.... no nation building... Bush before he was pres, has the same policies as Obama does now.:shrug:
 

hedgehog

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not you of course GW, I am referring Hegdehog.

GW and I disagree on most everything, but in reality we would probably agree on more than we disagree on. The difference being is that GW has an IQ well above 80. Hegde, you, on the other hand, are hopelessly stupid.


this post does not even warrant a response, I promise you do not want to go there.
 
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