Pac-Stink?

Master Capper

Emperior
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Scott,


Injuries are a part of every game and UCLA losing their QB was no different than Wyoming losing both of their backs. If I had the time right now to go back and search threads I am sure that I could find multiple post by yourself touting UCLA as being a strong team that people outside of the PAC 10 were disrespecting. Wyoming was perhaps the weakest bowl team this year outside of North Texas State and I believed that they would have been beaten by any of the MAC schools that went to bowls, so that speaks volumes about just how OVERRATED UCLA was! This cuts right to the heart of why the BCS sucks, a team like USC can cruise through a average to weak league and then gets bumped up while a team like Auburn plays in a cut throat league and gets punished. I said this same thing about Miami-Fla when they played in just as weak of a Conf (BigEast) as USC does in the Pac 10. Stating that UCLA was not motivated is a cop-out, is this not the same UCLA team that got pushed around the field by Fresno State last year in the Silicon Bowl? Do you believe that UCLA can only be motivated when they play in big bowl games? Wel lthat would be false also since UCLA rarely plays in a large bowl, twice in eleven years. I believe that UCLA was the fifth best team in a weak conf that could not even fill their allotted bowl slots, do you think the fifth best teams from the other larger leagues would struggle with Wyom? Well the Big 12 fifth best team already played Wyom and beat them by 31 but you know AM didn't have as high of a SOS rating as UCLA so therefore UCLA would beat them. UCLA's showing is just another example why the PAC 10 is not currently a top tier league like the Big 12, SEC, ACC, they are the fifth best league and you cannot justify your responses with the lame excuse of injuries, as they are part of the game. To even put forth a proposition that injuries caused UCLA to lose is insane as this is the same Wyom team that gave up nearly 1,500 yards rushing in their final four games.
 

Scott4USC

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Merry Christmas Master Capper!

If Jason White gets injured on the 1st play of the game in the Orange Bowl and USC ends up winning by 30pts there is no way I could say USC would have beat OU by 30 with White in theire. Injuries are part of the game and injuries also dictate how a game is played. Therefore, it changes the game. UCLA from the top of my head was without at "least" 3 key players, theiir starting WR, starting LB, and Starting QB (for half) during the game. WYOMING did not beat UCLA at full strength and it is obvious UCLA did not want to be there.

You can't fairly compare the 5th best Pac 10 team to the 5th best Big 12 or SEC or ACC. Those are 12 team conferences. Pac 10 has 10 teams.

BTW, Wyoming did beat a 7th ranked tied SEC team OLE MISS!

As for you thinking USC coasted their way into the OB. Well USC did win out with a big #1 ranking target on their back. That means USC gets the best game out of everyone! USC also beat 2 top 10 ranked opponents (CAL and V-Tech) and both are legit BCS teams. So USC beat the ACC CHAMP (who you say is top tier conf.) USC also was not afraid to play on the road! Always tougher to play and win on the road!

LASTLY, I do not think the Pac 10 is the premier conf. this season nor the premiere conf. last season. HOWEVER, I do know they are not the 5th best conf. this season as you suggested.
 

Master Capper

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Merry Christmas Scott,

Unfortunately, the Pac 10 is much weaker than the SEC, Big 12, ACC or Big 10, when you cannot even fill your bowl slots the league is very bottom heavy with dead weight. You again fail to account for the injuries at the RB position for Wyoming and also the leading tackler Chase was out for Wyoming so your injury theory is worthless. The bottom line is UCLA loss to a mid level team from one of the bottom leagues, trying to justify their loss by comparing UCLA to Ole Miss is bizarre to say the least. Ole Miss didn't even qualify for a bowl and was not the 5th best team in the SEC as that was Florida. Although I still feel that USC has a solid chance of beating Oklahoma, it is quite apparent that the BCS is a trash system that can be exploited by teams from inferior leagues such as Miami did in the BigEast and USC is now doing on the Pac 10. Yes you are correctthat USC did beat Va Tech but does this also mean that if Auburn beat them by a larger margin than USC then they should be considered a superior team? As far as USC playing on the road the combined record of their opponents was 25-35 so that road schedule was far from daunting!
 

AU2001

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Scott, you should go into politics with your crafty statistics. Ole Miss is ranked 9th in the SEC as Arkansas and Alabama have better overall records and beat Ole Miss straight up by a combined score of 63-10! Nice try!!!

Oh and by the way, the Pac-10 sucks!
 

ELVIS

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i have little respect for the pac 10 overall, but there is credence to ucla sleeping through the game , period. i am one of the biggest auburn backers on the board that isn't a aub fan. i love sec football , and i feel it is the top conference year in year out. sec/ big 10/big 12 are almost always 1,2,3 every year. (not necessarily in that order).

ucla is not impressive, but why would they be motivated to play this game ? curious.

regardless of the ou vs usc outcome - it cannot be ignored that ucla was coached poorly in this game, and it was a classic game for the underdog to get a win. hell, ucla f'd my bowl pick sheet as well. :rolleyes:
 

The Judge

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ELVIS said:
i it cannot be ignored that ucla was coached poorly in this game, and it was a classic game for the underdog to get a win.
I agree.

It also cannot be ignored that the PAC 10 schedule has been as weak as any BCS conference with the possible (?) exception of the Big East. Realistically, the Whack-10 teams that are in BCS bowl games, have played a whole bunch of nobodys.

There is no question that this seaon, Oklahoma has the benefit of having played against MUCH better competition than the Trojans.

May the BETTER team win. My money is on the Sonners.
 

Scott4USC

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I don't understand the "anti Pac 10" sentiment on this board. Nobody here at madjacks has made an argument explaining why the SEC or Big 12 is superior to the Pac 10. I have read many people expressing their opinion but nobody explains why.

The BCS computers (which are not biased) have the Big 12 #1 and Pac 10 #2. Sorry the statistical data doesn't support your opinions but I would be the first to admit that computers are not necessarily the best or the only source to use to support your opinion. However, they are unbiased AND they are a collection of 6 different computers combined!

People don't respect Pac 10 for playing tough OOC schedule as a conf,?

People don't respect the Pac 10 for not being afraid to travel on the road and often ACROSS country?

People don't respect the Pac 10 for not playing as many div. 1aa teams like other BCS conf. do?

People don't respect the Pac 10 for being the most innovative conf. in college football?

*I never said the Pac 10 is superior to anybody, however other conferences are not necessarily superior to the Pac 10. If they are, where is the arguments supporting that statement?

I don't get it but if USC was at full strength on Jan. 4th, I would have 20k (including my futures) riding on USC to beat OU. What I mean by full strength is having all the players that did "not" graduate or "not" declare for the NFL back! USC is missing 4 starters on offense from last years team who did not play this season but were expected too! In addition to that, too bad the NCAA didn't let Mike Williams back. USC would be unbeatable but he has himself to blame because he hired agent. I heard the same ANTI PAC 10 arguments the last 2 years when USC went to back to back BCS bowl games. The anti Pac 10 arguments explaining why USC would not only lose but get smoked! I have cashed in the $1000's both BCS bowl games USC played. This BCS bowl game I am not adding onto my wager for the reasons stated above. In fact I have over 5k on OU ML to offset my USC futures wagers.
 

tulah

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I've just watched the replay of the game on ESPN & the 1 thing that stood out the most to me was the Wyoming fans...
It felt like it was a home game for Wyoming .Everytime the UCLA off. was on the field the stadium was echoed with boo's.

Losing your starting QB in the 2nd QTR isn't a good enough reason to lose the game.? Personally I'd rather lose my RB then my starting QB.

Wyoming got there share of lucky breaks in the 3rd & 4th QTR. The recovered punt off a ucla facemask , or the super generous spot of the ball on 4th & inches. or the crappy interferance penalty in the end zone.

Where the refs from the MWC?

All in all UCLA shouldn't lose to a team like Wyoming ,but I just feel all of you aren't being fair.

UCLA will be the 2nd best team in the PAC-10 in the 2005 season.




do any of you PAC-10 haters actually live in a state that has a PAC-10 school? The con. isn't as much of a cakewalk as you all think.
IMO PAC-10 games(more Off.) are more exciting then a SEC game(more Def.) .





Also no way the trojans lose by 24...
I'll give you 50x odds...


Thank you
 

Sun Tzu

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Didnt Wyoming start the game 10-0 against the first string UCLA QB? Wasnt it the backup whoi then lead them to the lead? Amzing how important in all of this to some of you the UCLA injury was but it is totally irrelevant that Wyoming essentially had no running backs due to injury.
AS fot the "breaks" it was clearly pass interference in the end zone, and the fumbled punt wouldnt have happened if the coach had declined the penalty on the play before as he should have.
 

Scott4USC

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Good post tulah!

Master Capper

What was the strength of schedule of WYoming compared to UCLA?

UCLA SOS #13
Wyoming SOS #53

Sagarin only had UCLA a 2pt favorite and since there were 12k Wyoming tix sold to 4k UCLA tix sold, Wyoming clearly was the home team so Sagarin had Wyoming as 1pt fav. Pretty sharp on this particular play!

Sun Tzu

Didnt Wyoming start the game 10-0 against the first string UCLA QB?

I think 7pts of that 10 came from a drive after UCLA RB fumbled.

UCLA did not deserve to win and they played bad. They played sloppy, coaching was poor, and the team looked/played like they didn't want to be there. In addition, UCLA came into the game undermanned AND lost their starting QB during the game. Wyoming came pumped up in the game and they wanted to be there. This often happens in lower tier bowl games. Las Vegas bowl is a low tier bowl game. Wyoming is not a shit team but they are not a great team either. Often the team who wants it more will beat the team who just goes through the motions. That is what we saw AND on top of it UCLA was undermanned. Congrats to Wyoming! UCLA winning or losing in the Las Vegas bowl makes very little difference. Remember, USC also lost in the Las Vegas bowl against UTAH 4 years ago. Look at USC now!
 

AU2001

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The Pac-10 is a creampuff conference and I don't need to live close by to make that assessment. And since when does attendance win football games? Did any of those 12,000 Wyoming fans put on a jersey and make a play? I mean, you guys are hilarious. How many more excuses can you come up with?

And Scott, my anti Pac-10 sentiments come from people like you and Kirk Herbstreit who rattle on about USC's OOC schedule being so tough, and leaving out the fact that you guys play 7 p*ssy teams in your own conference!

Let's look at in-conference opponents:
USC = #4 Cal, #21 Arizona State
Oklahoma = #6 Texas, #22 Texas A&M, #23 Texas Tech
Auburn = #8 Georgia, #12 LSU, #15 Tenn (twice)

The only difference is your creampuffs are in-conference and others play theirs out-of-conference. And UCLA being the second best team in the Pac-10 next year means nothing to me because the pac-10 sucks!!! It's like the Big East before Miami and Va tech left...whoever won their head-to-head matchup got to play for the national title because the rest of the conference was so pathetic!

I will now open the floor for more excuses why UCLA lost and how they were a much better team when they played USC, and how we're being unfair in saying they suck because they lost to Wyoming.
 

dr. freeze

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i like how genius Scott from USC tries to justify UCLA's loss to OSU due to inexperience....nevermind the fact that OSU was on the road after losing their "big 3" from a year ago

he is a pac10 obsessed fanatic with tunnel vision...nothing more nothing le....well maybe less....
 

gjn23

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you guys love to bag on how weak the pac ten is

show me some a good team in the big 10, show me anybody who's great in the sec outside of auburn, show me who's great outside of ou in the big 12????

it's all about preconceived notions of these confereces and how "strong" they are vs how "weak" some conferences are.
in reality there is little difference between all 6 power conferences (pac-big-sec-big12-acc-sec)...you have a few great teams from each, some middle of the road teams and plenty of garbage.
 

soljah67

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The PAC 10 conference is in my eyes the stronger conference. Yeah you can say well UCLA lost to Wyoming. But if you ever known UCLA, they have never played well in bowl games that didn't matter. 2 players getting suspended from playing in the game while in Vegas says it all. UCLA doesn't care, and I'm happy UCLA didn't pull off the win, even though they should have killed Wyoming. That is why I decided to go on the over on that game. But UCLA didn't even score enough points. USC is going to beat Oklahoma. Oregon State is going to beat Notre Dame. Arizona State is going to lose to Purdue, why? not because Purdue should win, but Arizona State is nothing without their QB, who is going to the NFL. Kyle Orton who fell off the Heisman radar is going to show NFL scouts that he belongs in the NFL. Arizona State would win IF they had their QB, but they don't so that play goes to Purdue. Cal should handle Texas Tech rather easily.
 

gjn23

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middle of the road pac-10 teams typically aren't up for bowl games and lose to teams they shouldn't because of the way the bowl system is set up.....the big 10-12-sec have tie-ins to bowl games on jan 1 where their 3rd place teams get to play.

guess where the pac-10's third place team gets to go????? Fricking El Paso Texas to play the 5th place team from the big 10....HUH? When we have two great teams (sc and cal) we still can't even get those two to play on new years day. .....personally I think the bcs has made almost every one of these bowl games irrelevant and not very interesting.....12k at a bowl game last week!!!!!!

Find me a game on new years day that is interesting
 

Master Capper

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While GJN and Solajah make some good points about the the PAC 10 and UCLA, I think both are missing the point entirely! I have never stated that the SEC, Big 12, ACC and possibly the Big 10 are full of great teams but that they are full of solid teams that are better then what the PAC 10 has to offer once you take SO CAL and CAL out of the equation. You guys can demand respect about the PAC 10 all you want but I can only go by what I see and what I have seen is a league that was so bottom heavy with below average teams that it could not even fill it's bowl allotment. Now we come to the point where Scott will try to salvage the PAC 10 by posting they played a stronger SOS out of conf, well big deal the SOS is a unknown going into the season and basically you are saying we played teams that were too tough for our league to handle but we can justify the losses by saying SOS. The rational that you guys are using for UCLA is wrong, it doesn't matter if they travel well (although this is an indication of apathy towards football in the PAC 10), it doesn't matter if they had injuries for two reasons, Wyo had just as many if not more, and secondly UCLA's depth chart should be much better then Wyomings, do you know how hard it is to recruit at Wyoming compared to Los Angles? Finally, the rationale that UCLA always loses bowls is worthless, does this imply that if UCLA played James Madison in a bowl we should assume that UCLA would lose since they always lose in bowls? Bottom line was that UCLA was outplayed, out hustled and out coached by a average (and I am reaching to just call this team average) team. Where a team goes to a bowl game determines how well they will play? How does Detroit or Boise sound in late December? Teams in the PAC 10 historically have been bad traveling teams during the bowls as far as attendance and this is one of the reasons they cannot get the cherry picked warm weather sites that the SEC and Big 10 enjoy as both of these leagues are well known for having legions of fans follow them to bowls. While I agree with you that OSU should beat ND, Cal should beat Tech and ASU could/would beat Purdue (as the Big 10 is down this year), I would have to disagree tha that USC is going to have a walk in the park against Okie as I feel that game is too close to call. When a league fails to meet it's bowl allotment then I really dont feel the league has much to bitch about as the league is too bottom heavy with below average to poor teams and no matter what it does create a easier time for the better teams to run the table within the league, which is very similar to the working plan that Miami used in the Big East. Bottom line is that there are no excuses that can be used to justify UCLA losing to an inferior team and it is a direct reflection on the league as a whole, not only during bowl season are you representing your team but also your leagues pride.
 

Scott4USC

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Master Capper

When a league fails to meet it's bowl allotment then I really dont feel the league has much to bitch about as the league is too bottom heavy with below average to poor teams and no matter what it does create a easier time for the better teams to run the table within the league,

FYI MC, to be bowl eligible you just need 6 or more wins. FYI MC, the Pac 10 teams who failed to be bowl eligible did not play div. 1aa teams and weak weak 1a teams as an OOC AND at home. If they did, they would be bowl eligible because that is 3-4 automatic wins and they would just need 2-3 conf. wins to be bowling. That would impress you? Well that is what the SEC/Big 12 do. Look, Nebraska just canceled on HOUSTON to schedule MAINE! :142lmao: But if they become bowl eligible you will be impressed!


You continue to bag on the Pac 10 and preach the other conferences are better but you continue to fail to explain your opinion. What are the good teams in the Big 12 or the SEC? Please don't spit out records because most of those teams pile on w's against weak ooc competition.

LETS TAKE A LOOK AT SOME FACTS TO SUPPORT MY OPINION!!!!! Unlike you, I do not just give out my opinion, I support it!

To give you an idea of how bad the SEC is, check this out...

One of the teams in that conference, Vanderbilt, has NEVER won a conference title, even though they are charter members of the SEC when it was created back in 1933. :clap: In fact, their highest finish in the conference was fourth place back in 1982. :scared That's right, Vanderbilt has NEVER finished in the top three in the SEC in 71 years of being a member. You have to go all the way back to 1977 to find a conference winner that was not one of the following: Alabama, Auburn, Florida, Georgia, LSU or Tennessee. :142lmao:

In contrast, these are the schools in the Pac-10 that have won or shared the conference title since 1990: USC, UCLA, Washington St., Washington, Stanford, Oregon, Oregon St. and ASU. Only Cal and Arizona have not won the conference title in that time. :clap: Even more amazing is that every single team in the Pac-10 has finished in the top ten in the final AP poll since 1991, :clap: and if Cal finishes in the top ten this year, it will mean that every Pac-10 team will have finished in the top ten in the past 11 years, with seven of these teams having finished in the TOP FIVE during that same period (if Cal wins its bowl game it will become number eight).

No other conference comes close to this accomplishment. So, when an SEC honk comes here and talks about how many bowl representatives the SEC has, know that it's because teams like South Carolina and Vanderbilt have never made it once into the top ten, and that teams like Arkansas (last appeared in top 10 in 1982), Kentucky (1977), Mississippi (1969) and Mississippi St. (1940) rarely provide a challenge for the teams at the top. The top six teams are almost guaranteed wins over the bottom half, and half of the bottom half qualify for bowls because they're bound to win half of their games against the losers at the bottom. Couple that with scheduling of directional state schools, and the SEC qualifies 7-8-9 bowl teams every year. It's not good football; just the magic of scheduling and raw probabilities.

CASE CLOSED!
 
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