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[Terryray]

nor say anything about Castro, or Quadaffi--even elected Lybia to chair the UN Human Rights Commitee!

and they wonder and shocked at Dubya being so wary about signing on and subordinating US to these internationalist governing bodies....

 

[BADTODABONE]

Badtodabone,

I remember those lyrics. Sung by Country Joe & the Fish during the Woodstock Festival.

AR182

COUNTRY JOE &THE FISH, I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT, 'DON'T ASK ME I DON'T GIVE A DAMN' ICAN'T NAME A SONG OR ARTIST WITHOUT A TOP TWENTY OR OLDIES LIST!!! I LIVED IN SCOTTSDALE FOR A WHILE, '97-MID'99. HAS TO BE A NICE CLIMATE TIME OF

YEAR, OPEN LAST WEEKEND, REMEMBER THE MILD WINTERS WELL. HOPE SADDAM IS QUIVERING IN A CAVE SOMEWHRE WITH BIN-LADEN ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WORLD AND THERE ARE BIG RATTLERS WAITIN' TO STRIKE 'EM.

 

[Terryray]

song was "I-Feel-Like-I?m-Fixin?-to-Die Rag
(Vietnam Rag)"

and when Country Joe sang it in the the Woodstock documentary, the lyrics were spelled out and highlighted with a bouncing ball.

After I'm done here in LV and with folks in OR, I may get back to Austin and TEXAS! I got some property at Sam Rayburn Lake 20 mi south of Nacogdoches. May be some Shuttle debris on it...

 

[dr. freeze]

stupid liberals wouldn't even open their eyes after 2 towers got blown to bits and thousands of people died.....theyre still oblivious....they want to go around the world and hug everybody....they hate the achievement based society.....they seek to dethrone that......they want everyone to live in mindless poverty only worshiping them.....they want to dumb down the education system, take away any incentive for making something out of their careers, and force everyone to work as slaves for the government....that seems to be the goal of todays liberal.....

smoking gun? lmao....what more do we need? a smoking city??? how bout a whole smoking state??? that fool Mandela said that we need to reveal how we get our information??? does this moron have any idea how espionage works??? yeah lets just tell everyone who our sources and inside people are so that Hussein can go after their families and delimb them in front of his people like he does to everyone else who opposes him.....

whatever happened to our resolve that we are going to go after every nation who harbors terrorists? how quickly that mindset vanishes.....have we forgotten what these imbeciles did to us? whats next, a whole city going up in smoke after a suitcase nuke???

unbelievable....these people want to drag us around in their streets and kill us and rejoice in doing so....they are aphrodesiacs for slaughter of Americans.....they get off in doing so....they are reprobates......time to take them out or they take us out....they hate everything about us....

we try to help every country in the world who is in need, fight disease, hunger, poverty, oppression, etc.....and what do we get???? this sht from the rest of the world who we bail out time and again?????? unbelievable!!!!!!

 

[Terryray]

yup Dr. , in a less politically correct time Kipling called it "White Man's Burden"

We get little thanks for it all.


We are heading in direction Kipling's Great Britian where they gave up the superpower status,
gave up getting people to fear and respect them,
gave up spending on defense and switched to welfare (and watch country go down the drain)---Many get tired of helping all the time and just wish folks around the world would like them....



poem by Kipling (in part)

Take up the White Man's burden--
The savage wars of peace--
Fill full the mouth of Famine,
And bid the sickness cease;
And when your goal is nearest
(The end for others sought)
Watch sloth and heathen folly
Bring all your hope to nought....


Take up the White Man's burden,
And reap his old reward--
The blame of those ye better
The hate of those ye guard--
The cry of hosts ye humour
(Ah, slowly!) toward the light:--
"Why brought ye us from bondage,
Our loved Egyptian night?"


<a href="http://www.boondocksnet.com/ai/kipling/kipling.html"> Complete poem here</a>

 

[bjfinste]

I agree that showing proof of WMD in Iraq is a double-edged sword. If we do, we could be compromising our intelligence ability. But if we don't, how is anyone going to believe its true? Its a tough position.

Freeze used the example of a suitcase nuke. And while I think he is as much an idiot conservative as he thinks I'm a stupid liberal, its a valid point. But who is right? That's the worst part about this whole thing. As far as the public is concerned, we don't know. No matter what anyone says, from either side, we don't know. If they really have this shit, I hope we bomb the hell out of them (but no nukes :nono: ), but if they don't, and we attack, we could be inviting exactly what Freeze was talking about: a suitcase bomb.

The bottom line is that we don't know, and that's why I'm torn. I'm a left-wing, liberal democrat for the most part, but I will be the first to say to blow the **** out of them if they have what our idiot president says they have. I just wish we knew. "We" being the general public. I can't take a side, as much as I'd like to. I hate war, I hate the thought of war, I hate the thought of Americans dying for an unjustified cause if that's what it turns out to be.

 

[Mickey's Picks]

Have noticed in this thread and others similar to it what appears to be a large conservative contingent here on Mad Jacks's. Wonder what the connection is between gambling and politics?
I consider myself to be a proud conservative but don't shove it in the face of everyone I meet as liberals seem to do.

Bottom line here is that we are facing a world unlike that which we have seen before and the only way to deal with it is to be aggressive as out great president Bush has decided to do. Part of the reason we are in the state we are now is because of the inaction by our past presidents, all Democratic by the way, who gave all these pissant countries and terroist groups the impression the the great USA was a big pushover. Clinton was the worst of the offenders ignoring and not retailiating to the numerous attacks on Americans during his watch. Remember that the first WTC bombing was not responded to by Bill. Then there's Jimmy Carter, whose life's mission, now that a Republican is in the White House, seems to be to take shots at and denounce everything our President does. Was there ever a more ineffectual pussy President than Jimmy Carter? Ronald Reagan scared the shit out of our enemies and because of his efforts two great communist countries have vanished. Who could have ever predicted a united Germany and Russia as an ally?

Simple fact is, in politics or life, being a pushover will get you nowhere and it's only through strength that people, particularly your enemies, will get the message to respect you and yours. I thank God that we have Bush in the White House right now instead of Al Gore and I know that the mandate he has taken, without regard to public opinion or his political career, is heartfelt and genuine and truly in the best interests of the security of this country. Idiots like Mandela, Carter the Hollywood loonies (Ed Harris - what an ass) and the "smoking gun" crowd sicken me and why more in this country don't rally to the cause, particularly in light of September 11, absolutely astounds me. How quick we all forget.

 

[Stewy]

First of all, who cares if the evidence was irrefutable! The United Nations is irrelevant, it's nothing but a big waste of tax payers dollars. If it weren't for U.S. funding then there would be no UN. Second of all, who gives a squat what the French, Germans, Russians, and Chinese think. They are all in bed with Saddam financially. They will only lose and have nothing to gain from a Democratic resource rich Iraq. It is the liberators from decades of Tyranny that the Iraqi citizens will be greatful for. As for the liberals, I will give them a few props (exept for Ted Kennedy, and Joseph Biden) for their political dance they did today. They already have one foot in the grave and are afraid to commit political suicide at this point in time.

Then you have this point, What about the cost of war? What about the cost of not going to war? Is it a good idea baby sit this maniac for another decade? Is it smart to spend another15 years wasting intelligence resources on the bastard to ensure nukes don't fall into the hands of a terrorist group. Everyone knows the second he has these capabilities he would blow Washington DC off the map. Our economy and way of life would never recover from such an attack. Why should we keep funding the United Nations so they can triple their inspections teams. People the United Nations aint shit, quit stewing and fretting about pleasing them. They are nothing.

AS for Nelson Mandela, he is no different then Saddam. He murdered his own people who didn't support his crusade to end appartheid. For some reason he is regarded as a hero. Great job Nelson, you ended apartheid and your country has gone straight in the shitter ever since. Mandela can lead his people to tear up their country and use racism as a motive, but he isn't smart enough to use the countries resources and lead his people to prosperity. Mandela is irrelevant and wouldn't waste any more time worrying about his opinion.

 

[BADTODABONE]

KC :Yep:

STEWY :Yep: :Yep: :Yep:

mandela :scared

 

[bjfinste]

No shit man, Stewy has a great point. Who the hell cares if we have the support of anyone???? There is absolutely NO reason to worry about having the support of anyone else.

I mean, God forbid we have a solid reason to invade. Otherwise, what's the logic? Because we don't like the way they run their govt? Hell, let's go with a full-scale invasion of China while we're at it. I remember from being a little kid that they are communist, and that means they are the enemy.

I'm not saying we shouldn't go in, I'm just saying that your conservative rhetoric and praise of our idiot president doesn't justify the idea that we should just go in... the hell with the consequences... and that's what it sounds like you guys are saying.

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

this is a little off topic cause I don't think either side can be swayed off views on war regardless what they find or don't find but the thing that bugs the shit out of me from both Dems and Rebs is why do we continue to send aid to these countries that flagrantly hate us. While I must say I support Bush for most part I did not care for his economic package. Can't see cutting money going in and increaseing funds going out but both sides have done that for years. If they want to increase spending on military and home secruity great I welcome that but we could pay for that ,supplement Medicare ect,cut taxes and still have mucho left if we would just quit sending money,loans and aids to these countries that dis us.WHY do we do it? Let the SOBs starve and Allah take care of them. The stupidest thing aside from allocating funds for Africa was a little not publizided article in Phillippines paper where we and the Pines were infusing money to the starving Muslim population there and they are the very factions stirring up shit in the Pines. I am clueless why give aid to these rag heads.
Can anyone give me a valid answer as I am quite curious.

If we spent one year giving no aid and collecting just the interest they owe us in oil or other products,this economy would boom like never seen before.

 

[dawgball]

DTB--Your opinion is always one of my favorites to read. Let me take a completely uneducated guess as to why the US continually feeds money out to these countries. I do not agree with the logic and not saying that this is an intelligent way to look at it, cut we have seem proof time and time again that our leaders are no geniuses (that is pointed at all politicians as a whole). I think they look at as a way to appease the beast. Some of our leaders (mostly Dem) think that if we keep feeding and giving to the less fortunate (usually by their own means), they will pick themselves up, brush off, and start helping their own cause. NOT THE CASE. How many generations live on welfare in this country alone. The world is no different. I am in no way saying just to screw them (the ones in our country), but if we would use the money in more productive ways instead of programs like food stamp that basically give them another out for drugs and alcohol (anyone who disagrees with this part is misinformed). I think Bush is continuing this effort for voter appreciation. He does not want to cut support off from any section of the public. He is just playing the politics.

Bill Gates (another personal liberals/Dems love to hate) has set up one of the largest charity organizations for vaccination. His idea is not to send vaccinations over to the thrid world and say, "Get Better, See you in a decade." His whole objective is to actively teach these people what is bad and good for them. Did you ever think the reason why so many people in the ghettos smoke crack is because that is all they know? What in the hell is welfare going to change about that. They're definitely not moving to Bel Air on that money.

Liberals love to throw it up in the face of conservatives that they have no compassion for the less fortunate. Bullshit! Conservatives would just like to see them help themselves a little first. Liberals want to give first and watch their little pet grow into a big strong citizen. Wake up! It ain't happening.

BTW, **** Hillary Clinton! Spineless bitch knew if she left her husband during his term, she wouldn't stand a chance to win her election. One thing everyone needs to realize about all prominent politicians: They are only out for what is best for them. That's how they got to be a prominent politician. Someone that really has substance gets shoved under the rug on the way to the top.

That's the worst part about this whole thing. As far as the public is concerned, we don't know.

First, I would like to commend bjfinste for stating his opinion in a non-confrontational way on a board where he feels that most disagree with him. That shows true character. But what I quoted from you is a main problem with Liberals and Democrats. We, as a country, vote people in to office to run our country. When it comes time to run the country, we do not have to know everything, we have to trust that they are doing the right thing. Even though I didn't like Clinton, I would have said the same thing while he was in office. That's what being a democratic society is about. Remember, if we as the American public gets information, everyone in the world has that information. I don't think we could run a country based on those circumstances. This county is a business, and last I checked most businesses don't reveal all of their secrets to their stockholders.

Say you prayers to whomever you say your prayers to today. If you don't pray, then just hope or think or do something. If we go to war, it's not going to be pretty.

marine (and all other servicemen)--you are always in my prayers and God speed getting back home safely.

 

[Chanman]

Great thread w/ great posts. Although I was in High school during the Viet Nam era, I still remember the protests, the media and the war stories @ that time. Especially since some of my neighbors down the street didn't make it back.
Just want to give Kudos to "Marine" for your service :toast:
Terryray- Been a while since I heard the title to that song.
"Lotta Freaks, Man, Lotta Freaks."

 

[TheShrimp]

You guys are hilarious. Suitcase Bombs. Some of these nuts hijacked planes with box cutters and the next step is a nuclear device in a suitcase? Friggin' hilarious.

Mobile chemical and biological weapons labs? Any of you guys ever been in a science lab? Come on Freeze -- you're the med student. You've been in labs before. They use hoods, vents, fans, sterile rooms, chemical showers, lots of electricity, computers, centrifuges. And we're to believe the friggin' Iraqis -- THE IRAQIS!!?? -- are moving these things around the country in semis and trains ? That's what we're worried about?

In cahoots with terrorists -- who isn't? The US was funding and supplying Al Qaeda (vs. the Russians) and the Iraqis (against the Iranis) for years. The Saudis (including friends of the Bushes) have tons of ties with known terrorists. We're not going in there.

These guys are as close to making Nukes as Alabama is, much less having the capability to deliver them HERE.

We constantly accuse the Iraqis of having different kinds of weapons, and when they deny it, all we have to say is "well, the Iraqis lie." You must see the catch-22 in that.

At least admit that you want to invade Iraq because you still...haven't...got...your...satisfaction for 9/11, or that you want Bush/Cheney Inc, to annex massive amounts of oil for themselves and bump up their buddies' defense contracts.

Or be partway sensible and realize that Saddam has a destabilizing influence in that region and that a lot of people would be better off without him in power. That's at least somewhat sensible.

But if you think what Powell showed you yesterday or Bush saying "this is like a bad movie, and I don't want to watch it" is sufficient evidence for invading a country, then get your guns out because we could find equally incriminating things for about half the countries in the world.

I'm not opposed to a righteous war, honestly. In 1990, Hussein invaded a country (kind of...) and that's a justifiable cause. But I have a much easier time believing the ulterior motives of this administration are leading to our invading Iraq rather than justifiable prevention of WoMD. Saddam didn't cause 9/11 and Bush has completely exploited our fears/anger to justify the upcoming invasion.

Since it's going to happen, all I can hope for now is not too much loss of life on either side. And at least to hope that Bush isn't really doing this to serve private American interests in Iraqi oil.

 

[Stewy]

Hey Shrimp, Saddam has Scientist that have the knowledge to send a nuke anywhere in the world. If we don't babysit the bastard everyday till he dies he will have the capability to nuke Washington D.C. This isn't hollywood, your opinions are respected and well thought out, but come on man.

 

[djv]

I just laugh to myself when so many young ones here cant wait to go to war. But they wont go acrosse the street to sign up. I here how easy they believe this will be. We shall see. It's mention we need to get after these nations that help terroist.
Iran we know is the biggest. So we deside to do Iraq. The money trail for the towers led to Saudi. Ah but we give them a pass. OIL maybe? Another guy is still hung up on Clinton. Holy chit get over it. In fact bring him back and our great economy We had at that time. Hell he can have 2 blow jobs a week. Ok so we let Iran of the hook and Saudi. Yemen were kissing there ass. But for some reason were hung up on the unfinished bussiness of Bush 1.
All you Right wingers that think you got it right. You have got nothing better to say then the Left. You all sleep togeather. Heck just listen to Rush Dimo he will solve all your one side problems. Talk about someone who is lost in time it would be he. I know lets bring back Ronny and his wifes tea leef readers. It's also mention above we spend more then whats coming in. That's ok Bush could give a shit. When we all start paying for it he will be out of office and blame it on some one else. I know we can reach back and blame it on Clinton. When we should reach back to Bush 1 and say. Look how you screwed this up by not finishing the job.

 

[TheShrimp]

Hey Shrimp, Saddam has Scientist that have the knowledge to send a nuke anywhere in the world. If we don't babysit the bastard everyday till he dies he will have the capability to nuke Washington D.C. This isn't hollywood, your opinions are respected and well thought out, but come on man.

Come on, man, WHAT?

Not even Powell yesterday indicated they have this capability you speak of. I don't know where you got this idea. I don't even believe they have the Uranium, much less inter-continental missles. You think those Scuds they sent into Israel in '91 are going to get a nuke to DC?

And what's that supposed to mean "This isn't hollywood?" Who are the ones thinking Iraq has the capability to slip a suitcase bomb into this country? If that ain't Hollywood, I don't know what is.

There are about 5 countries that have the ability to send a Nuke anywhere in the world, and Iraq sure as shit ain't one of 'em.

 

[theGibber1]

im not as worried about nukes as i am chemical weapons..

if you saw Powell give the Anthrax example.. you know it doesnt take much to cause some real trouble

 

[theGibber1]

Who are the ones thinking Iraq has the capability to slip a suitcase bomb into this country?

not me.. id say the real danger is Saddam selling chemical weapons to extremists.. which we know from 9/11 that the extremists are already here:shrug:

 

[theGibber1]

even if it isnt nukes they are hiding something..

there was an interview w/ a former inspector last night.. he was saying that these people were going as far as removing top soil and even dumping 100s of tons of compost on inspection sites to make it impossible for them to do a thorough search..

if they have nothing.. why do this?:shrug: