Powells Info

[Stewy]

How funny , it was the left wingers back in the early 1990's that were demanding that we use dimplomacy and the United Nations sanctions to end the war. Bush 1 was under pressure from the world to go the United Nations route. IF you are critisizing Bush for not finishing the job I guarantee you were one of the people who were pushing for UN resolution back during the Gulf War.

Times have changed, you can't just go across the street and ship off to war. The military is more interested in 18 year olds who succed academically. I tried to join the Air Force after 9-11 and they weren't all that interested in me. I had been out of highschool for 5 years, i had a couple drinking and driving incidents that really turned them off to me. They basically said I would only have a chance to load plains. This isn't the veitnam era where the government will just run you through basic training and send you to the front lines.

Bill Clinton was so great for our economy, he turned his head to corporate scandals as the stock market got inflated. He passed laws that made it illegal for the CIA to infiltrate evil regimes such as the Taliban. The foudations of our ecnonomy are too strong for one man to take credit for. The economy goes in cycles, we were headed into a recession when clinton stepped out of office. Follow that with a terrorist attack that had severe consequences to all aspects of the economy. Then follow that with the corporate scandals that Clinton turned his the other way on all those years. Let me guess it's Bush's fault that he didn't allow corporations to cook the book and overinflate the stock market. If you take into account all of these things and realize that the military had been gutted of funding for 8 years, intelligence had been neutered, and now the airline industry is on the ropes. OFcourse government spending has to be increased and the deficit isn't gonna look pretty for a few years.

 

[Stewy]

Shrimp

Shrimp

My point is that Iraqi scientist have the knowledge to do this. Iraq had already developed long range missile capabilites at one time and the Israeli's destroyed it.
Iraq is not interested in pointing a long range nuclear devise at the United States. They know that will be tracked and the consequences will be severe. The fact that you scoff at the idea of backpack nukes bothers me somewhat. They have the knowledge, ability, and will to accomplish it. If we don't babysit Hussein for the next 15 years he will be able to accomplish this. You act as if it were tough have a nuclear program and only the China's, Russias, and United States have the capabilities. Well, don't forget about the Pakistanis, Indians, and North Koreas. It's fairly simple to build a nuclear program with a handful of educated scientists. Don't degrade the intelligence of the dangerous people because they had to use box cutters to kill 2000 people.

 

[AR182]

I saw a Newsweek reporter( can't remember his name) on the Chris Matthews show who said that the biggest fear that the administration has is of that 12 infected( anthrax?) fanatics landing at 12 major airports & just walking through the terminals. There will be millions of Americans who will be infected. If anyone thinks that this could not happen should re-think their position on this subject. Also if anyone who doesn't think that Iraq is a major threat to the US is making a major mistake. To those doubters of Iraq being a threat I suggest you read David Rose's article in Vanity Fair about the connection between saddam & alqaeda. If I get a chance I will post a summary of that article.

I voted for Gore & was annoyed about how the election took place in 2000. I originally thought that Bush was in over his head. But 9/11 changed my thinking on the Bush administration. I think they have done a great job post 9/11 in their handling of the war on terrorism & that we are lucky to have the people we have calling the shots. I have not agreed with everything that they have done. For example in the battle at Tora Bora in Afghanistan, I thought that they had bin laden pinned down, but instead of surrounding him with allies, they relied too much on the Aghan fighters to cover the back side exit of Tora Bora. It is obvious that these fighter were bought off & the military leaders should have anticipated that. There are other examples that I can give where I question their tatics( the US borders), but on the whole the administration has done a great job.
To those people who oppose the war because they dislike Bush, I say take a deep reflection on the threat against us, put down your partisan beliefs & get real.
To those who live in Europe, WAKE-UP. Hasn't history taught you anything about burying your head while evil dictators go about their business of no good.

 

[THE KOD]

im not as worried about nukes as i am chemical weapons..

if you saw Powell give the Anthrax example.. you know it doesnt take much to cause some real trouble

I read that there is still a huge mail facility in Washington that is still completely uninhabitable because a small amount of anthrax was in the building and they havnt been able to sanitize it.

Scott King of Dogs

 

[TheShrimp]

To those who live in Europe, WAKE-UP. Hasn't history taught you anything about burying your head while evil dictators go about their business of no good.

Or, history might have taught them something about unprovoked invasions of other countries.

 

[theGibber1]

Or, history might have taught them something about unprovoked invasions of other countries.

oh yeah, the old argument.. i iraq never did anything to us..

what was it they did to us directly when Clinton bombed them in the 90s..??

were you protesting then..

:shrug:

 

[ozball]

Good debate thus far excellent points on both sides.

One point that is very troubling in these debates...When arguing for war, or cutting off aid, etc, and you refer to the rest of the world ( especially the non Anglo-saxon world) as "these people".
These people hate us, drag us through the streets, bomb the WTC, send anthrax.

"These people" are largely unconnected. Sre their skin is a different colour, their language is different and some are muslims, but it is not a worldwide conspiracy against the USA. Iraq is a different issue than Al Quaeda, and differnet again to Somalia or Africa.

Shrimp's point about Bush's impotence over 911 is well made. Bush has chanted a mantra of "war on terror" and consistently named Iraq as a supporter of terrorism. Iraq had NOTHING to do with 911. Hussein hates bin laden as much as Bush does. Bush needs to have something to feel victorious about before the next election, because thus far the hunt for bin Laden, the economy and the war on terrorism are not looking likie much of a platform.

Hussein is a pr!ck who has done terrible things to his people, but he did some of that while the US was supporting him. I heard a quip on the radio that is not far off the mark...."Bush Knows that Saddam has weapons of mass destruction...because he still has all the receipts..."

Te cost of war in human lives on both sides and economically is so immense, I just don't see justification for it. Iraq is no threat to the continental USA. terrorist organizations need to be targeted, but that should be through espionage and intelligence. Open warfare will not work.

ozball

 

[TheShrimp]

First of all, I'm hardly protesting.

Second, I barely remember Clinton bombing, but I think it was "no fly zone" issues or something, though, when we knew they were violating certain rules. In this case, I think the evidence is less clear.

Basically, I'd just like to see more/better evidence of Saddam developing strong capabilities.

It seems to me that anything he's doing that is on a large enough scale to hurt us should be easy to find.

Now, it won't surprise me at all if some day UN inspectors walk into a warehouse/palace/factory and find a ton of equipment used for making nukes/biologicals/chemicals. Won't suprise me at all. But, I'd like to wait till we find it, and if we can't find it, I think it's likely because its simply not being done on a scale that's dangerous to us.

Maybe that's wrong. I don't know. Maybe all it takes is a guy with a lab in his basement to make enough anthrax to be dangerous to us. But I don't think we can just invade any country where that possibility exists to find out (it looks like those anthrax mailing last year probably came from the US). And even then, would getting rid of Saddam and setting up some new regime necessarily get rid of such an operation? Could it possibly exacerbate hatred for the US with some people?

There's just a lot of issues here that I'd like to see straightened out before we start getting our own soldiers, and innocent Iraqis killed.

 

[theGibber1]

scary

http://www.glennbeck.com/picoftheday/02-06-03-pod.jpg

The North Korea Central News Agency released new posters depicting North Korea's military power. The letters read, 'Man who eat Korean dog food die many good time!'

 

[ozball]

Yup,

does anyone really believe that killing a half million Iraqis in an invasion will make the arab world emrace the USA? Or would it rather dedicate a generation of suicide bombers to look toward the US.

ozball

 

[hellah10]

Yup,

does anyone really believe that killing a half million Iraqis in an invasion will make the arab world emrace the USA? Or would it rather dedicate a generation of suicide bombers to look toward the US.

ozball

more then likely piss off alot of arabs. Some stocks(main ones) are allready hurting from whats going on over there. According to my uncle(who lives in Beirut) he said all the arab nations have boycotted all of the american franchises since December....and according to my Econ professor - he said international is a HUGE deal when it comes to profit for these companies.

In Beruit they got HUGE KFC(with a theme park ), a bunch of Cokes products, HUGE, I MEAN CASTLE like McDonalds....and all those stocks are taking a nose dive....and these are just in Beruit...probably bigger in the other nations...

 

[djv]

You know we cant even say for sure Iraq has sold anything to anyone. Now N Korea is the second largest exporter of military goods in the world. We of course are first. We sell like grazie to whom ever wants it. No you say.Well we helped arm Iraq to the teeth with there war with Iran. Just thoguht I would bring that up since since some of you like to go backand blame folks. By the way that was Ronny and his gang. All those arms sent to Iraq in the name of pieace. Yup you bet. Now N Korea who sold just last year over 600 million in mid range rockets to Yemen, Pakistan, and Iran. I could go on no need. Is just a little problem. Hey there already selling there goods to who ever brings the money. N Korea already has the bomb. So let go get Iraq who has not sold a darn thing yet that we know about. Open your eyes some of you folks have been right of center so long you cant see the truth if it bits you in the putt. Just yesterday N korea was so bold to say they have the right to attack us first. Why Becasue of that axces statment, or what ever Bush said. They believe there next. We have a guy in the office that better listen real close to other then just the VP. This ant going to be cowboys and indians.
He may have us in war two or three place at same time. Then back here at home while were trying to protect our home land we will be screwed.

 

[Stewy]

I can't beleive you guys will cow too radical propaganda. Afer all, why would North Korea even be a problem? I thought Clinton bought them off back in 1994.

 

[hellah10]

Afer all, why would North Korea even be a problem? I thought Clinton bought them off back in 1994.

$$$$$$ :shrug: :shrug:

 

[marine]

Hey guys,
Just sitting here at work and perusing the debate and finding it quite interesting.
One important note/question/comment I have is:

We all know that no one here is in the power to make any decisions, BUT there are some pretty well spoken pieces in here. Why don't you send them all to someone who CAN do something on a larger scale. Like... oh say... Your elected Congressman?????

Shit, thats what they are there for. Cut and paste some of this stuff and start mailing it on out to them. Let them know what you think. They represent YOU.

Every couple months I send my congressman a letter. Just to let him know how things are going and what I think of some of the policies and procedures they are up to. I also let him know what he is doing wrong that will make me vote for the other guy next time around. And the things he is doing right so that he can keep my vote.

A while back I actually had the chance to meet one of my congressman and when I told him who I was he actually frickin remembered my name from the letters and we had a good laugh over lunch!

Its one of the beefs elected officials have with the public. No one says boo to them except for the lobbying groups and then when they do make a decision half the public is ripping them apart for it.
Drop em a line and let them know how you are doing and what you think of the nation!

 

[theGibber1]

yes im sure my congressman would love to here the opinions of a bunch of degenerate gamblers who spend their day bettting on sporting events..

lol

jk marine, actually that might not be a bad idea

 

[Blitz]

It is a confirmed FACT that Iraq "had" chemical and biological weapons, they admitted to them.

If they destroyed them where is the proof? Don't you think if and when they destroyed them, they would have called in the media and UN inspectors, so all could see, so they could get the sanctions lifted ?

 

[Tenzing]

hmm..

hmm..

...in case you guys missed this, since it wasn't widelY publisized, the Israeli Air Force pilot who died in the Columbia distaer a few ago was picked to be the first israeli in space because he had SUCCESSFULLY BLOWN UP IRAQS NUCLEAR WEAPONS FACILITY/ MANUFACTURING PLANT in a daring raid. 'NUFF SAID.

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

For those that find this topic of interest you ought to see the post on forums from Asia,middle east ect. I read news from other countries every morning and I will post link at bottom for those interested.At botton of news link there is forum where people from all over the world responde. It is enlightning. You can find some
interesting stuff:
HABUR GATE, Turkey - The tough Turkish truckers who make weekly runs to Saddam Hussein's oil refineries in northern Iraq are bringing back accounts of a massive Iraqi military buildup in the region, along with descriptions of a panicked population and barracks full of hungry and bedraggled Iraqi soldiers.

"They are digging new bunkers and bomb shelters, and there are lots of tanks now," said Resim Gul, 26, a trucker who has been hauling Iraqi crude for the last four years. "Trucks full of new soldiers are arriving every day. And lots of big antiaircraft guns. They're new. It's all new."

The Iraqi military may try to defend Mosul and Kirkuk, major refinery towns and two of Iraq's most prized strategic assets, against coalition ground troops who could attack south from Turkey through the Habur Gate. Worse, some U.S. war planners believe Hussein may be preparing to destroy the oil fields before the United States and its allies can seize them.

The Turkish truckers say the Iraqi soldiers who are moving into the north do not look very fresh. One driver said they looked as if they already had been through a war.

"The soldiers are going hungry," said Ismail Gergez, 26, a tanker driver from the ancient Turkish hill town of Mardin, which overlooks the Syrian border. "They are wearing old, dirty uniforms. They don't even look like soldiers. They're living in their barracks in disaster conditions."

The truckers say many Iraqis are anxious and fearful - anxious about a war, fearful of their leader.

"I know the Iraqi people very well - I spend a lot of time there - and they're scared of Saddam," said Gergez, who recently spent 20 days in Mosul when Iraqi customs officials impounded his truck.

"They speak against him, but only to the drivers and always very secretly.

"They ask us drivers: 'Are the U.S. soldiers on the Turkish side yet? Are they coming?' "

and sad stuff:
Military wives need public's support
Marion Colston
Published February 6, 2003

Ft. Sheridan -- I am the wife of a U.S. Marine. He is leaving. And that's OK. His job was part of the package when I married him.

Several of my fellow Marine wives, however, have experienced verbal and physical abuse in the past few weeks from so-called "peace protesters."

One woman was told from another car at a stoplight that her husband was a baby killer, and that they hoped he would die.

Another, and her young son, were yelled at and manhandled by a group of protesters as they were passing through the area.

Why did this happen? Because the wives either had a Marine Corps sticker on the car or a Marine Corps shirt on.

Military wives, and especially Marine wives, are fiercely proud of our husbands and of the role we play in keeping it together on the home front. And we display our pride on our cars, our shirts, our coffee mugs.

But now many of us are taking off the stickers and shirts and are putting away the mugs. And that's a horrible feeling--like we should be ashamed that our husbands serve our country.

Please, our job is hard enough--moving frequently, having husbands leave with little or no notice, being mom and dad, giving birth alone, trying to help our small children remember Daddy.

We need the support of our fellow Americans

and different views in general
Here is asian news link http://sg.news.yahoo.com/asia/

 

[ferdville]

djv - you have made so many comments in a random manner that it is hard to answer you. You deride those of us that criticize Clinton, but evidently it is fine for you to roll on RR and Bush 1. As so many others have done, you keep bring up the word OIL. Those are your caps, not mine. If all we wanted from Iraq was their oil, what prevented us from taking it over after the Gulf War? Maybe we didn't because Bubba was just too compassionate and ethical to do so. But not Bush and all his cronies - why they are the embodiment of big oil and big corporate America, right? We don't need Iraq's oil. In fact, experts estimate that it would take an investment upwards of 100 billion dollars to update the Iraqui oil fields to a point where it would be profitable to take them over. Do we have enough greedy corporations that have a hundred billion to invest? To invest in something that wouldn't even pay for itself in the next 2 decades? You also bring out the tired story of Rush Limbaugh - as if ALL conservatives live and breathe for his next word. Please - this would be similar to me asserting that the Libs live and die on the wisdom dispensed by the likes of Shaun Penn, Barbara Streisand, Susan Sarandon. Mike Farrell and the venerable Phil Donohue. I am no big fan of "W" - I disagree with much of what he has done and much of what he is hoping to do - home and abroad. But I find it very hard to understand why people feel we must avoid a war with Iraq at all costs. Blame the Saudi's for 9/11? They certainly must share some blame. But there is ample proof that Bin Laden worked closely with Iraqui agents on many occasions. And why do they have that fusilage of a 747 out in Iraq? Are they training flight attendants? Let me ask you this - what exactly would it take for you to agree that we should invade Iraq? What proof would you need to see before you said "Go."?