Probable War Cost...90 Billion large..

[Blazer]

Get me out of here

Get me out of here

DJV. Killing and War aren't only on the news. Have you checked out how many "Police Dramas" there are on the air lately? There are 3 different LAW AND ORDERS, 2 differnet CSI's, The Shield, NYPD, and a dozen or so lawyer and investagator shows.

We are immersed in this violence and death. But hey I'm guilty too I'd rather watch these shows than I'm A Celebrity Get Me Out Of Here! - Worst show on TV ever.

 

[Nick Douglas]

I think gardenweasel and kosar have made some good points.

It should be obvious that the orders for Iraq to disarm is subterfuge. This war has little to do with that. This war is all about oil and Israel, probably more the latter than the former.

Israel would not exist if it weren't for the U.S. We send about $6 billion a year in aid to that country and we forgive countless millions more in "loans" on a regular basis. The basic reason for this is that much of the Middle East does not even recognize Israel as a country but there are many power people in the U.S. who feel it is their duty to ensure Israel's survival.

One widely held theory is that by occupying Iraq, U.S. forces can move Palestinians to the open desert regions of Iraq, thereby removing Israel's most aggressive and nearest opposition. Obviously the U.S. would also be able to capitalize on Iraq's oil resources to make this war slightly less financially insolvent.

I don't see this stabilizing the region in the long run. I think certainly that if the U.S. accomplishes its mission and expells the Palistinian threat from Israel's front door it will help revive Israel's moribound economy and entice many of the Jewish people who have left in recent years to return.

I just don't know if the cost of Israel's stabilization is worth it. Not only will Muslim Arab countries continue to oppose the U.S., but clearly many European countries will become less closely aligned with us.

The U.S. is just in a tough position. If they do nothing, the intifada against Israel will continue and its survival will become ever more precarious. If the U.S. invades, Israel will likely eventually become more stable, but the likelihood of attacks against civilians both here and in Israel could increase.

One last note is that I think there are few people who would argue that Hussein should stay in power but in the Middle East, there are probably even fewer who believe that the U.S. should be the ones to run the country. If we truly were only trying to disarm a dictator and execute a humanitarian mission for the people of his country, we would help the Iraqi people rise up against him rather than just taking over the country for ourselves.

 

[Blazer]

Weapons Of Mass Destruction

Weapons Of Mass Destruction

Nick,

I agree with you. If Iraq does plan to use it's "weapons of mass destruction"*. It will use them on Israel. We are over there to protect our special interest...I mean our allies.


* The phrase "weapons of mass destruction" has become as common as "have a nice day" or "to each his own". It has become a common phrase in our language. I don't really know what point this makes. I guess it's just an observation.

 

[djv]

Move palestinians to desert of Iraq. Are you kidding. Just move over 3 million people. They believe they have as much right to where they are right now as the jews do. And they are right.
Iraq and this war about oil. I said that about 6 months ago and the right wingers here almost killed me. The President would never do this for oil. Ask the French and Russians if its about oil. They have bigger contract for that oil then we do. However the USA and I mean our government does buy oil from Iraq oil companies. It's so Iraq can fead there people and provide medicine for them. Just more BS. Oil is tops here. Saddam is next.

 

[JT]

A nation with about 50 states if not all in or near bankruptcy spending 90 billion dollars that we really can't afford to spend to invade the most secular country in the Middle East. BRILLIANT! How about spending some of the billions on the Veterans association. Nah rather send our troops to foreign countries to die then cut the funding to their support system after they are out of the military. How about spending 90 billion to ensure the health and welfare of our aging population? How about spending 90 billion to starting fixing the aging infastructure of this nation? Etc, etc, etc. Am I in the twilight zone? Wake me up when it's over. Hopefully after only 4 years.

 

[djv]

90 or 125 most of it not needed. We could get him for less. But it's the staying after he is gone that will help run up the bill.
What do you think N Korea will cost either for war or to prevent it.
Either way it will cost us. Some times a person wishes he had kept his mouth shut. I have a hunch Bush knows now not to ad lib. Stick to what the tele-a-promter has on it.

 

[JT]

As for Korea, don't most South Koreans want us gone? If so then why don't we just pull out then. God forbid if North Korea invaded because I feel they would push us off the peninsula alot easier then people think. If it takes this long just to set up an invasion of a country already bombed into the stone age imagine what it would take to retake South Korea.

 

[djv]

S Korea split from young to old. Older folks know helped save there ass. They want us there. Younger ones feal with us there it makes N Korea do the things they do. The younger ones are starting to rethink that. Believe the N Korea action last 30 days has started to scare the hell out some of them. It should. N korea starts acrosse the DMZ and they will catch more hell then thay can think of. what we worry about is this dam fool sending one of his nukes into SKorea. Many mnay say he will never do it. I say never is a very long time. I say, never say never. This dude is one big nut case.

 

[gardenweasel]

n korea is getting scarier by the day

n korea is getting scarier by the day

kim jong-il makes hussein seem reflective....the guy is impulsive and can fly off the handle in a heartbeat.....

they found a n koreran long range missile test-warhead in alaska!!!!.....they then fired another test missile over japan....we all know that they pulled out of the nuclear non-proliferation treaty.......then,they intercepted an unarmed air force recon jet over international air space........


now,the u.s. has sent 24 b-1 and b-52 bombers to guam to let kim jong-il know he`d better tone it down a bit.......things are getting dicey.....what the hell are china and s korea doing?.....sitting on their hands...

and the rest of the world twiddles their diddle.....the u.n. had better get their ass in gear in regard to n. korea....i am beginning to understand that most nations at the u.n. would like to see the u.s. out of the picture.....it looks like ,again,we`d better start covering our own asses.....they can hit alaska....looks like they can also hit los angeles and san francisco........the word is that in months,not years,these guys will be rolling nuclear warheads off the assemblyline like vw beetles.....

they want to initiate talks with us....and it`s obvious they want to barter...and now they have the biggest chip of all......that`s why iraq has to be nipped in the bud....n korea is the best argument for stopping iraq that could ever be made....

thanks president clinton for falling asleep(or getting b.j.`s )when you should have been acting like a president and making hard decisions... ....

 

[djv]

Latest Gallup poll taken in USA.
Witch is biggest threat to USA.
Saddam/Iraq 18%
N Korea 44%
Our old Friend Bin 39%
Wonder if anyone in the white house ever looks at these.

 

[Blitz]

Re: n korea is getting scarier by the day

Re: n korea is getting scarier by the day

thanks president clinton for falling asleep(or getting b.j.`s )when you should have been acting like a president and making hard decisions... ....

He was making something HARD, but it wasn't decisions...

 

[djv]

Clintons not in office. And he did not make that stupid statement that got NKorea all worked up.

 

[Blitz]

Clintons not in office. And he did not make that stupid statement that got NKorea all worked up.

Ya, but he did make the so called "Deal" with N. Korea back in 1994, that they basically ignored...

 

[Nick Douglas]

First of all, I hope everyone checks out the first paragraph of what Dogs That Bark wrote about ousting Hussein. After you see how that is the most common sensical solution, then you have to ask yourself why the U.S. would choose not to take that tact. In my opinion the reason is because the leadership in Iraq would then continue to oppose Israel.

djv,

Nobody ever said expelling Palestinians was easy or even practical, only that it makes the motives of the U.S. in this war far more logical. Going to war only over oil doesn't make sense because what has changed all of a sudden to make Hussein's removal important now? If you look at the Middle East and to a lesser extent America, all that has changed since 9/2001 is increased aggression from both sides of the Israeli-Palestine conflict and increased paranoia disguised as security in the U.S. There has been no oil embargo or anything like that which would show a necessity for invading and occupying Iraq.

If you ask me, the government knows that many, if not most, Americans are distrustful of the government at this point. Therefore, they use the dual excuses of weapons and oil while leaving Israel out of the spotlight. Weapons for the yokels who swallow everything Uncle Sam tells them and oil for the "smart" folks to lap up as the "real" reason for the war when it is clear that proof of weapons violations is either flimsy or nonexistant, depending on who you ask.

Last thing I want to say is that I really am torn about whether this war is a good idea. As a person who is half Jewish by race, my instinct is to support this invasion as a method of survival for Israel. As an American, I can't help but feel that this increase in aggression will ultimately lead to America's undoing, as tends to happen to overly empirical rulers.

 

[Billy]

It's a crying shame we can't do things the old fashioned way......
back in THE GOOD OLD DAYS, the CIA would expel a pig with a
bullet through the head, (maybe several), would'nt have to send
six aircraft carriers and a half million troops to do a SIMPLE
OPERATION...........like I said......back in the GOOD OLD DAYS.......

 

[djv]

Blitz the point is they only started ignoring it since that statement almost a year ago now. The UN nuke inspectors were doing there jobs as instructed up to 3 months ago. Hey all you can do is the agreement. Then both sides need to honor it. Thats not Clintons fault. And Im sorry those remarks by bush added great distust to N Korean leader. Just the nut case guy you need not do it to.
But then again if N Korea is next on Bushs list then we will find out he did that on purpose. Either way has nothing to do with 94.

 

[ferdville]

djv - I hope you are not suggesting that our country's policy should be dictated by polls. That is absolutely absurd. Great idea, lets ask all the folks in the Ozarks, Appalcians or for that matter, NYC, to make decisions that determine the future of our country. They no doubt have the sophistication, the education, and the inside knowledge to make a well thought-out decision. No doubt they have Powell's ear on a regular basis. In fact, they probably have pertinent knowledge of the inner workings and thoughts of those in most foreign countries. Maybe we could have a poll to see if the majority of the people in the United States would like to abolish taxes. Or we could have a poll to see if the public would be in favor of the government giving us all one million dollars. After all, elections are still a few years away. That is the only time our leaders EVER listen to polls.

 

[djv]

ferdville this case I think American people might be just smart enough to know NKorea bigger threat then Saddam. Saddam has screwd with Iran, Kuwate, and his own folks. So far not us. He does not buzz our planes. Tells us he has nukes and will build more. On and On. Saddam is nuts I agree. Has to go. This dude in Korea is way past nuts. He may just be dumb enought to throw a nuke into S Korea. All us Americans know what that means. There for I would say the poll make sence.

 

[gardenweasel]

dj

dj

i know you aren`t serious about some remark made by bush a year ago prompting n korea to start producing nuclear weapons,are you?...a n korean official had admitted that they were diverting spent fuel rods into an ongoing arms program....then powell went over for a meeting,got an agreement from them not to restart their reactor and the adjoining plant....we pledged 40,000tons of food in aid to n korea....then,a short time later,satelite photos showed plumes of smoke over the reactor indicating they had restarted it....it is believed that it would take roughly a year to start actual production of weapons..............i amended this post because i believe i contributed to a bush vs clinton argument and that isn`t the issue....the bottom loine is ,we now have another serious problem with n.korea.....on that we can agree....

 

[PRO190]

WE ARE DONE ::

Troops out of ALL Foreign Nations:All $ aid Immediately stopped:Line the borders:Expell all ILLEGALS:LEINS on ALL OUTSTANDING and past DEBT:No more educating the WORLD (What YOUR SCHOOLS ARE NOT QUALIFIED)::::

Were the Iraqi native WAR supporters MISINFORMED WHEN they SAW their Family members DIE at the hand of HUSSEIN::

Watch Cspan and see what the people that are FREE to speak say of IRAQS Leader:::THEY DO NOT LIVE IN MILLION $$ HOLLYWOOD HOMES::

PT Being:: WE SUCK so bad WHY ARE YOU HERE::::shrug: