schiavo case...

Turfgrass

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gardenweasel said:
turf...in this case,the woman isn`t terminal....it`s being done on heresay from her husband,who is her husband only in the legal sense...he ceased being her legitimate spouse years ago.....he`s moved on with his life....

would anyone here want their estranged son-in-law making a life and death decision for your daughter?.....based on heresay?..there`s no documentation......

i think not....

please answer that question,stevie and turf...

GW... When the preacher said, ?Who gives this woman to be married to this man?? and the father said, ?Her mother and I.? That?s it as far as ?blood? is concerned. Maybe his intentions are truly noble, and the reason he has yet to divorce her is because he truly wants the best for his spouse.

After all, isn?t the ultimate bond supposed to be between husband and wife?

I don?t know the entire story?I?ll admit that, but how many times is the court going to rule against the parents? It seems that if they had a good argument?by now they could have perfected it?but somehow it doesn?t seem to be getting through.

So now my question to you is this...you're watching TV with your spouse one night and see a show about someone on life support. You tell your wife that you don't want to ever be in that state, and would they please pull the plug should you ever become incapacitated. However, you don't write it down, and forget to tell your parents. Tragedy strikes and only you and your spouse know your true wishes. Should your spouse be ignored in favor of your parents who want to keep you alive at all costs?

I don?t know the answer myself?and yes starving her to death is wrong?but whatchagonnado?
 

Bombs

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SixFive said:
tussking, I know you're a stupid idiot, and a name-changer, but let me ask you this. How can she still be alive with no intake for a week? There are fluids getting into her someway. I'll assume she doesn't have an IV. That means she has to be getting it orally.

Freeze, wouldn't you agree that she would have been dead already had she not had some sort of intake? My understanding is that even a healthy adult can go no more than 4 days without fluid intake before kidney failure and then total organ failure kill them. She couldn't be alive still if she had no fluid intake since Friday, could she?

She's not getting any fluids. Nothing. Nada.
 

AR182

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if this doesn't make everybody, no matter the age, go get a living will & medical power of attorney, i don't what will.


i know we're gamblers, but this isn't something to gamble on......
 

SixFive

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kosar said:
If anybody so much as wets her lips, they get arrested.

no kidding?? How is she still alive then? I didn't think the human body could live that long without some kind of fluid/water intake. Freeze or the other md posting in this thread, how long can you live with no fluid intake? Thanks.
 

dr. freeze

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you can live a week or two before you go into acute renal failure

if you are out in a desert wandering around of course your time is a little more limited
 

kosar

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SixFive said:
no kidding?? How is she still alive then? I didn't think the human body could live that long without some kind of fluid/water intake. Freeze or the other md posting in this thread, how long can you live with no fluid intake? Thanks.

I was kind of thinking the same thing back in 2001 when they first pulled the tube and said '1 to 2 weeks' until death.
 

kosar

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dr. freeze said:
if you are out in a desert wandering around of course your time is a little more limited

I figured that that's what it must be. With no physical activity, I suppose that it would lengthen the timeframe somewhat.
 

SixFive

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dr. freeze said:
you can live a week or two before you go into acute renal failure

if you are out in a desert wandering around of course your time is a little more limited


Ok, since she is expending no energy really laying in a bed, she won't die as fast. Wow, that's comforting. Unreal. Thanks for the info.
 

gardenweasel

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turf...

some people go through spouses like an 85 year old through depends..but,your blood never changes..

here`s my problem...and it lies with the legal system`s inflexibility and it`s strict adherance to the letter of the law...

this man ceased being this woman`s husband for all intents and purposes a good 7 to 10 years ago...at least...

terri couldn`t get a divorce....that`s obvious...but,he can move on with his life and still hold control over the situation by holding a piece of paper....it`s legal...but it goes against common sense...pretty neat for michael...he`s garnered at least $300,000 of her settlement up to now.... catch 22 for terri and her family.....

she can`t speak for herself...he holds all the cards..beacuse he holds the paper...his circumstances aren`t taken into account here..

why hasn`t he divorced and remarried?

it`s his "allegation" that her wish was not to be kept alive....and it was verified by his blood...not her friends as alleged in the media.....it was by michael`s brother and sister....her in-laws..HIS blood...not hers...

do you think that if terry had any say in this whatsoever....that if she could defend herself...she`d stay married to micharel given his new circumstances?......you think she`d divorce him?....if you don`t,you should put down the yayo...


he has removed the availability for her to receive rehab years ago.........most of that money went to his lawyer...real prudent use of the settlement..

he never stated that her wish was to die until 7 years after the fact....after his falling out with her parents and he moved on with his new life and family...

i just hope that yourself...or a daughter..never find yourself in a situation such as this...

if you don`t see any problem with this scenario...and our legal sytem`s handling of this...then,i don`t know what to say....

the thing that really scares the hell out of me that all this is being done without documentation....on the say so of her extremely estranged husband and his blood realtives.......

i`ll never understand this..

not to mention allegations by friends and nurses of michael`s abusive behavior toward his wife....

and so much more...

the questions surrounding the events of her "injury"....his refusal to allow an autopsy to clear the air after she passes....his insistance to have her cremated immediately...

you don`t find any of this disturbing at all?...o.k...

i do..
 
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StevieD

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Do yu think this will create a push for euthanasia and how do you think the Religious Right will support it?
 

gardenweasel

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i really believe that the religious right`s involvement in this has probably hurt the schindler`s cause in the courts.....because,i believe,that helped politicize this......

taking on the randall terry`s of the world certainly didn`t help the schindlers...and some of their arguments in their appeals citing " terri spending more time in purgatory"(that`s what i read was part of the appeal..lol) and tripe like that just further polarizes the schindler`s position and the florida judicial system.....

i don`t know what they could have been thinking...the denovo argument resulting from congressional action should have been pushed much harder.....

of course,with the fractiousness existing between the two branches of government(legislative and judicial),these appeals were probably doomed from the beginning...

the courts,imo,may have to much power...and i expect there to conversation in congress regarding this issue...

this situation is the perfect case in point why political/judicial appointments are so critical....and why it`s such a contentious issue...
 
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kosar

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Guy just tried to hold up a store using a box cutter to steal a gun so he could 'save Terri.'

Anybody who has read Carl Hiaasen, Elmore Leonard or Randy Wayne White and thought that their satire about Florida was an exaggeration, has never lived here.
 
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yyz

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kosar,

It's a little like the anti-abortion nuts. They don't want you to kill an unborn baby, so they kill the doctor. I saw a picture in USAToday, of two guys arguing over this shit about Terri. You had the obligatory "hippy" getting screamed at by some dude with the hairs standing up on his neck!

Like many other issues, you can harp til you're blue in the face, but you won't change someone's mind on these matters. Too many people continue to rally 'round the "cause du jure". They will care about this woman and her rights, or the husband and his, until something else comes along. As soon as there is something new to raise their voices to........they will.

It's almost comical to read these threads, but it is also pretty hard to stay out of them......That is one of the reasons I won't debate in the Pol/Reli forum anymore. Too many people in here argue just to argue.
 

kosar

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YYZ,

Yeah, I guess it's similar to the anti-abortion people. These people on location protesting are extremely fired up. Dozens arrested including 10 or 11 year old kids. Just adds to the madness seeing video of these kids being handcuffed. At least 7 members of the Florida legislature have received death threats from Terri 'supporters'.

As far as spinning ones wheels posting in this area, I dunno. You're mostly right that nobody will change anybody elses mind, but it passes the time and overall the discourse is pretty interesting and often funny.

I don't know that people (with a few exceptions) are arguing just to argue but (also with a few exceptions) you can pretty much predict to the word what somebodys post will say, knowing their political preference.

I guess it can go around in circles, but it's almost always civil, which is more than we can say about most political boards, or political areas of other types of boards.

Jump in the fray every now and then. Don't be intimidated by Dr. Freeze. It may appear that he suffers from mental atrophy, but he's harmless.
 

AR182

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here is something that i thought some might find interesting from cnn web site....it's amazing that different doctors & attorney's look at the same person & draw different conclusions........


Background on the Schiavo case
Friday, March 25, 2005 Posted: 3:15 PM EST (2015 GMT)



What caused Terri Schiavo's condition?

On February 25, 1990, Terri Schiavo collapsed at her Florida home from what doctors said was a potassium imbalance. After she collapsed, her brain did not receive oxygen for about five minutes.

The oxygen deprivation caused severe brain damage. Schiavo's husband, Michael, has said his wife was bulimic, and the binging and purging of that eating disorder could have caused the potassium imbalance.

In what condition is Terri Schiavo?

Doctors that Michael Schiavo hired have said she is in a persistent vegetative state. That does not mean she is brain dead. People in a persistent vegetative state cannot think, speak or respond to commands and are not aware of their surroundings. They may have noncognitive functions and breathing and circulation may remain relatively intact. Terry Schiavo breathes on her own and blinks.

Doctors that Terri's parents, Mary and Robert Schindler, hired have said she is not in a vegetative state and has the capacity to improve with therapy. She has not received physical therapy for more than a decade. Her parents contend that when she received therapeutic care, she uttered a few one-syllable words. Until March 18, Terri received nourishment and hydration through a tube that placed the nutrients directly in her stomach.

What is Terri's mental capacity?

David Gibbs, an attorney for the Schindlers, said Terri has the mental capacity of a 6-month-old. George Felos, Michael Schiavo's attorney, has said she lacks all mental capacity and spinal fluid occupies the space where her cerebral cortex was.

What is the settlement to which her parents and husband refer?

In 1992, a Florida jury awarded Michael Schiavo $300,000 for loss of consortium as part of the medical malpractice suit he filed. The jurors also awarded $700,000 to Terri Schiavo.

Where is Terri's money, how much remains and who controls it?

The $700,000 for Terri Schiavo went into a trust over which her husband has sole control. Felos said his client used the money for Terri's medical care and his legal expenses, and that the money ran out about three years ago.

Why does her husband get to decide Terri Schiavo's fate instead of her parents?

Florida law specifies that the spouse of an incapacitated adult is that person's guardian. In 1993, the Schindlers petitioned the court to remove their son-in-law as Terri's guardian. They lost.

Why have the Schindlers said Michael Schiavo should not be their daughter's guardian?

They believe that there is a conflict of interest because Michael Schiavo lives with his girlfriend and has two children with her. They have contended that he cannot uphold the best interest of his wife while living in what they describe as an adulterous relationship. Michael Schiavo has said he is removing his wife's feeding tube as part of keeping his promise to her that he would not allow artificial means to preserve her life. He has stated that his new family does not affect his feelings for his wife because he can love more than one person.
 

StevieD

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It is amazing that after all this time the doctors can't agree. I have less and less faith in the medical profession. There are some spectacular doctors out there but there are also a bunch of jerks. Heaven help you if you get sick and end up with the wrong doctor. We really should look into revamping our corrupt medical system.
 
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AR182

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stevie,

i have witnessed doctors change their diagnosis because an insurance company asked them to......which goes to show that money talks even in the noble medical field.
 

StevieD

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I have seen that too. Trying to get the truth out of them is almost impossible. And they stick together so the patient really doesn't stand a chance. This case maybe magnifies the issue and with that perhaps Terri can leave a legacy of a positive change behind.
 
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