schiavo case...

gardenweasel

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"the bunker"
tusskinng...or "puss"king...you are a moron....probably an "i love wr" ghost....love the caps...."i love wr" loved caps, too....lol

let's be clear about her condition. ....she is not dead.....if she were brain-dead, we would be talking about harvesting her organs.....she is a living, breathing human being. .....some people have called her a vegetable......apart from the term being disgusting, how do they know?....... how can we be sure of the complete absence of any consciousness, any awareness, any anything "inside" this person?....because michael hasn`t allowed a pet scan....no real thorough examination in 3 years....


the crucial issue in deciding whether one would want to intervene to keep her alive is whether there is "anyone home".......her parents, who see her often, believe that there is..........the husband maintains that there is no one home....... (but then again he has another home, making his judgment suspect......)


the husband has not allowed a lot of medical testing in the past few years.............the evidence is sketchy regarding what her actual neurological condition actually is...... the evidence is old and conflicting.........the florida court found that most of her cerebral cortex is gone.......... "most" does not mean all.............there may be some cortex functioning.............the severely retarded or brain-damaged can have some consciousness............ and we do not go around euthanizing the minimally conscious in the back wards of mental hospitals on the grounds that their lives are not worth living...........


given our lack of certainty........given that there are loved ones prepared to keep her alive and care for her, how can you allow the husband to end her life on his say-so?........

with convicted murderers getting appeal after appeal at states expense based on legal technicalities.....

it`s unreal...michael`s hatred for terry`s parents must be enormous to put them through this ordeal...

as my buddy kosar said,common sense is lacking here...
 
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StevieD

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Gardenweasel, please do not pretend to think for me. It is not a G.W. Bush thing. I admit I do hate the man. I think he is on the wrong side of many issues, including this one. But I do not first see what Bush thinks then take the other side. I look at the issue not at who supports it. I will not say that you and others on here only support your side of the issue because Bush is for it so please do not do that to me.
You apparently believe that the courts have been wrong in this case 24 times all though you do not offer any evidence to dispute their findings.
There is a lot of hear say coming out. I do not know why that was never brought into any of the 24 court cases in the last 15 years.
I do not feel any pleasure in a woman starving to death. That is just a silly and insensitive and unjustified charge made by you without merrit. If it was up to me deaths for terminaly ill people would be much quicker and humane than they currently are.
You do not know any more than I do what her wishes are or were. We do not know what she feels or thinks. It is a terrible situation and one that is repeated hundreds of times a day for too many families.
 
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gardenweasel

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"the bunker"
o.k.,stevie...point taken...i`ll backtrack on the bush comment.....and my harsh comments toward you...we disagree,but i respect your opinions...unlike some others in here...

it`s an emotional issue...and the husband`s testimony regarding terry`s wishes are heresay....there is no documentation...nothing...

and his motives are questionnable...his behavior, by many accounts, is dubious at best....

the new family...the lack of rehab...the lack of real continuing thorough examination....the denial of an autopsy.....the testimony of nurses regarding his comments and actions...and on and on...

he`s a cad...but the courts are the real villain,imo....from giving him custody... to letting him retain custody....to not rehearing this case "denovo"...and just depending on judge greer`s findings....who some believe has a political agenda...

and ms schiavo`s attorneys dropped the ball themselves by fricking up the appeal and giving the courts an out...
 
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dr. freeze

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i dont understand how you just dont get it

this is NOT a terminal situation

and this does NOT happen every day as you insinuate

either you are ignorant or you are being dishonest
 

StevieD

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Dr. I know you are a doctor but really sometimes I wonder where you are coming from. This is so common that every state including the State of Florida, has laws deciding on how to handle these situations. In cases where there is no living will the husband or wife in conjunction with the doctors, will make the decision. They must agree. In this case the attending physicians agree with the husband. You ever think it may be inhumane to keep her alive in the state she in?
 

kosar

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Bombs said:
The "life tube".

lol-I got quite a chuckle on that one as well. But that's tussking/eye q/highroller for ya. Just as spastic and incoherent in this area of the forum as he is in all the others.
 

dr. freeze

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you think people are starved all the time?

people are given nourishment until they die in all situations

you are way out in left field and are completely ignorant on end of life issues

if you are unable to distinguish taking the respirator off and starving someone to death, you are a complete fool
 

dr. freeze

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is it inhumane to feed the altzheimer's patient?

if you think it is, then go sign up for the NeoNazi party

they would welcome your point of view
 

StevieD

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Apparently, even doctors disagree on what she might be feeling. No need to call people names Freeze I can quote many of your colleagues, who are more specialized in this than you, who disagree with you. You don't have to search far.

By Kathleen Fackelmann, USA TODAY

Terri Schiavo has had no food or water since Friday, which has led her parents and their supporters to complain that she could be experiencing a painful death. But neurologists on Wednesday said that based on court findings of her condition, her body gradually will shut down in a painless process that will lead to death.



The Florida woman suffered serious brain damage after her heart stopped in 1990, and she has been the focus of a protracted legal battle that reached a zenith on Friday, when her feeding tube was removed by court order.


In a process that could take days, weeks or longer, the lack of food and water will cause chemical imbalances that eventually will shut down major organs such as the kidneys, and that ultimately will trigger heart abnormalities or other fatal problems, says Roger Albin, a neurologist at the University of Michigan.


Florida courts have ruled that Schiavo is in a persistent vegetative state, a condition caused by extensive damage to the cortex and other parts of the brain that are responsible for consciousness, higher thinking, memory or even sensations such as pain, hunger and thirst.


"She's not experiencing hunger - she's not experiencing anything," Albin says.


Patients in such a state don't get better because the body is unable to repair such a massive injury to the brain, says James Bernat, a neurologist at the Dartmouth Medical School in Hanover, N.H.


"If you're in a state like this for three months or more, you're chance of recovery is zero," Albin says.


That point is disputed by Schiavo's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, who are battling Terri's husband, Michael Schiavo, to get Terri's feeding tube reinserted.


The condition is confusing because patients in a persistent vegetative state still have the use of a primitive part of the brain, the stem. The brain stem allows them to go through sleep-wake cycles, keeps them breathing and produces facial expressions that can make it look as though they are aware of their surroundings, Albin says.


But those movements are merely reflexes, says Bruce Sigsbee, a neurologist in Rockport, Maine.
 

Turfgrass

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I?ll never understand how throwing the Nazi party around so flippantly happens as much as it does, but in this case Stevie is right.

Virtually every single day across this country decisions are made to discontinue medical intervention and people are allowed to proceed with the process of dying. In some cases feeding tubes are removed. More often ventilators are turned off. In one case a person starves to death, in another they are suffocated. It happens every day ...

It?s unpleasant, awful, and down right appalling. I don?t like it any more than you do, but you?re being dishonest if you think that it doesn?t happen more often than we would like it to.
 

SixFive

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question. Anybody know just exactly why she has the G tube? Is it because she aspirates when she eats, or is it to supplement her po intake so she gets enough caloric intake? I'm assuming it's because she aspirates when she swallows, but I'm not sure. If it is supplemental, I guess she could still be eating and drinking. Any ideas? Also, I assume this ruling and decision prevents her from being administered Intravenous fluids, is that correct? She could be sustained that way as well without the feeding tube.

TUSSKING, YOUR KNOWLEDGE OF THE MEDICAL ARTS IF FOCKING OVERWHELMING. "Life tube" LMFAO! SHE IS BREATHING ON HER OWN. SHE IS NOT HOOKED UP TO A VENTILATOR. SHE CAN BREATHE. SHE IS NOT IN A COMA. WHEN YOU INITIALLY DECIDE TO FEED A PERSON WHO IS ILL LIKE THIS, IT IS CRUEL AND INHUMANE TO THEN STOP.
 

tussking

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SixFive said:
I'm assuming it's because she aspirates when she swallows, but I'm not sure. If it is supplemental, I guess she could still be eating and drinking.

WHATS BETTER IS PEOPLE WHO DONT KNOW WHAT THE FUC THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT.

SHE CANT SWALLOW. SHE CANT DRINK. SHE CANT EAT. THE LIFE TUBE SUPPLIES BASIC NUTRITION FOR LIFE.
 

SixFive

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tussking said:
WHATS BETTER IS PEOPLE WHO DONT KNOW WHAT THE FUC THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT.

SHE CANT SWALLOW. SHE CANT DRINK. SHE CANT EAT. THE LIFE TUBE SUPPLIES BASIC NUTRITION FOR LIFE.

Unbelievable how stupid you are. You're so stupid you can't realize how stupid you are. Idiot. Life tube, again, lmfao @ u!
 

gardenweasel

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"the bunker"
turf...in this case,the woman isn`t terminal....it`s being done on heresay from her husband,who is her husband only in the legal sense...he ceased being her legitimate spouse years ago.....he`s moved on with his life....

would anyone here want their estranged son-in-law making a life and death decision for your daughter?.....based on heresay?..there`s no documentation......

i think not....

please answer that question,stevie and turf...

this is my problem with the legal system.....and they keep going before a judge (greer) that may be biased...back in front of him time and again....you know he can`t be happy about that...he`s the only one that`s looked at all the facts...

...her "blood" family is willing to sacrifice everything just to care for her....

as i said before ,she`s no more terminal than an alzheimer`s patient that can`t function on their own....can`t feed themserlves...do much of anything for themself...does that mean a court can decide they are expendable?

where does this stop?

i`d like to clarify something i found out...the other people that testified that it was terry`s wish to die,were michael`s blood relatives....not terry`s girlfriend,as some are saying........they were in-laws....

his blood...not hers...

and he never indicated that death was her wish until 7 years had passed since her "accident"....
 
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StevieD

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Garden, She is terminal. She cannot swallow, she cannot chew. I am not a doctor but the part of her brain that thinks and feels is gone. For all intents and purposes she died 15 years ago, she just hasn't been laid to rest yet. You seem to believe that she wants to continue to exist like this. What makes you think that? Also they have been before 21 different judges in 24 seperate cases and every time, every judge has sided with the husband. Let me ask you another question. If this was a murder case and the murderer was found quilty of murder 24 times by 21 different jurys, would you say "He did it."
Neither you nor I know what conversations took place between the husband and wife.
If you want to change the law I suggest you contact your local represenatives and tell them you want to change the law in your state so the parents make those decisions for people in your state instead of the spouse and doctors.
 

tussking

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tussking said:
WHATS BETTER IS PEOPLE WHO DONT KNOW WHAT THE FUC THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT.

SHE CANT SWALLOW. SHE CANT DRINK. SHE CANT EAT. THE LIFE TUBE SUPPLIES BASIC NUTRITION FOR LIFE.

SIXFIVE YOU MAKE COMMENTS ABOUT SOMETHING U KNOW NOTHING ABOUT "I'm assuming it's because she aspirates when she swallows" !!!!!! GO TURN ON CNN IF YOU OWN A TV AND CAN GET AWAY FROM SPORTS. THE ONLY MORON IDIOT IS ONE WHO IS IGNORANT LIKE YOU.
 

gardenweasel

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"the bunker"
you must have missed the testimony of the nurses that cared for her at hospice....who testified that they fed her milkshaked among other things....

but that`s not the point...

many alzheimers patients can`t feed themselves,stevie....

hell,some parkinson`s patients can`t feed themselves....quadraplegics....

should we have killed christopher reeve?....by your definition,that`s just fine...

the point is,providing food and water to the handicapped isn`t considered "extraordinary measures"...

and why has michael refused rehab and pet scans and cat scans for over 3 years?...
 

ferdville

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Why are you comparing patients that are conscious with someone who is not conscious nor has she been for 15 years. i wonder who in this forum if put in her place would prefer to go another 15 or 20 years in this same condition? I am betting a very few.
 

StevieD

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Garden, certainly you do not equate her condition with a paraplegic who has a functioning mind. Her mind does not function, that is the point. Do you think that for 24 court cases the judges have just wanted to kill her? So her husband can go off and marry someone else? He could do that anyway.
I do not know what the nurses testimony was. But why can't they have an agenda just like Tom Delay? I find it interesting you chose to believe them over scores of doctors who have examined her and declared her to be in a vegetative state. Not the ones who saw a video but the ones who have been her caregivers for years, they all agree the tube should be pulled because there is no hope for her in ever leading any kind, of what a reasonable person would say, life.
 
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