Smoking Bans-thoughts

samayam

Registered User
Forum Member
Feb 19, 2006
265
0
0
I would appreciate peoples arguments regarding public smoking bans. My town has recently debated the issue, which I was outspokenly against, but my efforts failed and the bill was passed and just took effect.
Please someone convince me why the government should ever ban smoking.
Cant businesses decide what they want to do with their space. If their patrons complain and eventually stop coming and business is lost, then ban smoking.
If people really beleive in second hand smoke killing them, then couldnt they go somewhere else? If I feel my life is endangered by a suituation, I leave but I dont force everyone to leave with me or try to pass a law to force my view of a healthy living upon everyone else.
I want some educated views on this issue so I can better understand the opposition. thanks
 

THE KOD

Registered
Forum Member
Nov 16, 2001
42,497
260
83
Victory Lane
I have quit smoking since Jan but was a long time smoker.

About a year ago my wife and I were in Joes Crabshack. The place was packed and we were seated in a booth in the smoking section.

Now remember I was a smoker. The booth next to ours had three young ladies sitting there. They smoked about 3 or 4 cigs while we were there. I swear, it almost made me sick. It really bothered me.

Sorry but have to go with ban. No smoking in businesses. Find another place where others are not suffering for your bad habits.
 

Happy Hippo

Registered
Forum Member
Mar 2, 2006
4,794
120
0
from the MAYO CLINIC

Secondhand smoke: Avoid dangers in the air you breathe

Breathing in the toxins in secondhand smoke can cause a variety of health problems, including lung cancer and asthma. Understand more and see how to avoid the dangers.

You don't smoke because you understand the dangers. But what about that thick cloud hanging in the air at your favorite restaurant? What about the haze left behind after your guests have departed after a night of partying? And what about the cigarette your spouse has left burning in an ashtray just a few feet away from your infant?

Are they all a danger, too?

Yes, they are. Compelling evidence indicates that secondhand smoke is a health hazard. And it's nearly as bad as smoking itself. Rich in toxic chemicals, secondhand smoke may play a role in causing or contributing to a number of health problems, from cardiovascular disease to cancer.

But secondhand smoke is often avoidable. Take steps to safeguard yourself and your loved ones from secondhand smoke.
Toxins in secondhand smoke

What exactly is secondhand smoke? It's two different forms of smoke from cigarettes, pipes or cigars:

* Sidestream smoke. This is smoke that wafts from the burning tobacco product.
* Mainstream smoke. This is smoke that the smoker exhales.

Secondhand smoke is also known as environmental tobacco smoke, passive smoking, involuntary smoking and a newer, more descriptive term, tobacco smoke pollution.

Regardless of what you call it, both types of secondhand smoke contain harmful chemicals ? and a lot of them. Specifically which chemicals are present depend on the type of tobacco product, how it's smoked and the paper in which the tobacco is wrapped. More than 4,000 chemicals make up the haze of secondhand smoke. And more than 60 of the chemicals in cigarette smoke are known to be carcinogenic, which means they may cause cancer.

Some of the substances found in secondhand smoke that are known or suspected to cause cancer include:

* Formaldehyde
* Arsenic
* Cadmium
* Benzene
* Ethylene oxide

Here are a few other chemicals in secondhand smoke that might sound familiar, along with their effects on health:

* Ammonia ? irritates your lungs
* Carbon monoxide ? hampers breathing by reducing oxygen in your blood
* Methanol ? toxic when inhaled or swallowed
* Hydrogen cyanide ? interferes with proper respiratory function

The dangerous particles given off in secondhand smoke can linger in the air for hours. Even breathing them in for a short time ? as little as 20 or 30 minutes ? can harm your health in a variety ways. And breathing in secondhand smoke over years can be all the more dangerous.

Adult health threats from secondhand smoke

Health experts have recognized the relationship between secondhand smoke and health risks for decades. Research exploring these connections is ongoing.

Some of the known or suspected health risks include:

Cancer

In 1993, the Environmental Protection Agency placed environmental tobacco smoke in the most dangerous category of cancer-causing agents, and subsequent research has upheld that status.

Secondhand smoke is a known risk factor for lung cancer. Experts believe that secondhand smoke is to blame for roughly 3,000 deaths from lung cancer in adult nonsmokers each year in the United States. Secondhand smoke is also linked to cancer of the nasal sinuses. It's also been linked to cancers of the cervix, breast and bladder, but the evidence hasn't been as compelling as the link to lung cancer.

Heart disease

Secondhand smoke harms the cardiovascular system of nonsmokers in many ways. For one thing, it causes coronary heart disease, such as a heart attack. It also damages blood vessels, interferes with circulation and increases the risk of blood clots. It's estimated that some 35,000 nonsmokers die of smoking-related heart disease in the United States every year.

Lung disease

Chronic lung ailments, such as bronchitis and asthma, have been associated with secondhand smoke. Exposure to secondhand smoke is also associated with chest tightness at night and feelings of breathlessness after physical activity.
Children's health threats from secondhand smoke

Secondhand smoke has a marked effect on the health of infants and children. They're more vulnerable than adults because they're still developing physically and generally have higher breathing rates, which means they may inhale greater quantities of secondhand smoke than do adults.

For children who live in households where someone smokes, the effects are worst during the child's first five years, since the child may spend the bulk of that time with a smoking parent or guardian. Ironically, infants are at the highest risk of secondhand smoke from their own mothers. A child who spends just one hour in a very smoky room is inhaling as many dangerous chemicals as if he or she smoked 10 or more cigarettes.

Here's a look at some of the main health problems in infants and children associated with secondhand smoke.

Growth and development

Women who are exposed to secondhand smoke during pregnancy are at higher risk of having babies of slightly lower birth weight. This can cause a host of health problems for the baby, such as cerebral palsy or learning disabilities. Women who actively smoke during pregnancy expose their developing baby to passive smoke ? the chemicals may pass through the placenta ? and put them at risk of lower birth weight. Scientists are studying the link between secondhand smoke and growth delays and congenital malformations.

A developing fetus exposed to secondhand smoke may also be at an increased risk of sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS). But evidence that post-birth exposure to secondhand smoke increases the risk of SIDS is inconclusive.

Asthma and other respiratory problems
Secondhand smoke may cause asthma in children. In children who already have asthma, secondhand smoke can make episodes more frequent and more severe.

Secondhand smoke is also tied to lower respiratory infections, such as bronchitis and pneumonia, especially in those younger than 6. It's also associated with irritation of the upper respiratory tract and a small reduction in lung function.

Middle ear conditions
Children living in households with smokers are more likely to have a buildup of fluid in their middle ear, which is an indication of chronic middle ear disease (otitis media).

Other health problems related to secondhand smoke

For both adults and children, secondhand smoke is linked to a variety of other health problems, including:

* Chronic coughing, phlegm and wheezing
* Eye and nose irritation
* Reduced lung function
* Irritability and annoyance
* Dental cavities

How to avoid secondhand smoke

Limiting exposure to secondhand smoke may seem easy, but sometimes it isn't. Secondhand smoke is both an individual health issue and a public health issue, with social and governmental influences.

The public health level
Some issues involving exposure to secondhand smoke are matters of public health policy. For instance, smoking is now banned on all U.S. domestic airline flights and all interstate bus travel, and is restricted on trains traveling within the United States. In addition, some, but not all, communities have tackled the issue by banning smoking in certain places, such as restaurants and airports. Likewise some, but not all, employers have enacted smoking bans or restrictions.



As an added benefit, in addition to reducing exposure to secondhand smoke, these community-level and workplace smoke-free policies have proved to be among the most effective ways to reduce overall smoking rates among adults.



and i will add as an ex-smoker - please smoke at home for the sake of all of us who care about breathing deep and not smelling like an ashtray.... and businesses should not be able to decide when it affects innocent people and children
 

DOGS THAT BARK

Registered User
Forum Member
Jul 13, 1999
19,485
161
63
Bowling Green Ky
1st I am a smoker
Would depend to me where the ban was. Any public place I can understand for the simple fact many that smoke do not have the courtesy (Scotts situation) to not smoke around others. If they try to ban smoking in your car or home that would be different story.

I would say my biggest pet peeve on other side of issue is seeing obese people going back to the buffet for 4th time and complaining the 2nd hand smoke is killing them. ;)

Frankly I think if the gov and states are going to take that stance they should just ban sale of tobacco--might be only way I can quit:)

---on the 2nd hand smoke issue--those that tell you there is concrete evidence that 2nd hand smoke is as bad for you as smoking are the same that had all the Y2K theories.
I base my opinion on actuarial studies--and those done by ins co who's job it is to determine risk do not think so. When taking medical exam it is not uncommon for urine samples to have trace amounts of nicotine from 2nd hand smoke of others. These non smokers showing these traces are NOT rated as smokers because ins co determine it is non significant risk. However 2nd hand smoke can have very adverse effect on people with allergies--be that as it may there is still no excuse for non smokers to have to tolerate 2nd hand smoke in my opinion.
 
Last edited:

djv

Registered User
Forum Member
Nov 4, 2000
13,817
17
0
Helmets when riding a bike or motor cycle. Seat Belt Laws. Drunk Driving. Smoking Ban. I stopped 20 years ago. I think the government is two faced on the smoking. They want as many smoking as possible for the taxes. You see some people think they get tax breaks. But will go buy a pack of weeds and pay through the nose. As for food. Lets tax it to. Get the fat ones that are always eating them self to death hard. Keep it fair. Does smoking bans in public places make sence. Seems that is very true. Smokers can and do hurt those sitting next to them. Some over eater does not harm him.
 
Last edited:

bear

Registered User
Forum Member
Jan 17, 2000
1,883
12
38
78
Fairfield, CT., USA
Millions of un or underinsured and their healthcare drives doctor bills, hospital costs, and insurance premiums up for all........Smoking causes too many problems with too many and (at least around here) it seems that the majority of smokers are from lower socio-economic areas. (greater liklihood of being un or under uninsured ???)
 

gjn23

Registered User
Forum Member
Mar 20, 2002
9,319
45
48
54
So. Cal
is this topic still up for debate in places around the country????

that ban's been in effect for about 10 years out here in cali and in my mind it's the greatest law ever.

im still dumbfounded when i travel and eat out and they ask me "smoking or non-smoking" what????? still blows me away that airlines allowed smoking, not from the health perspective but more importantly from a safety perspective.
 

blgstocks

Registered User
Forum Member
Nov 4, 2005
3,181
12
0
So. Cal
I have to totally agree with gjn because out here in cali it is rare to even see a smoker any more in my experience. When i have gone to other states or to casinos where smoking is allowed it bothers me alittle bit as well, especially if i am trying to eat or if it is right next to me at craps table.

I am curious if any of you have ever read John Stuart Mill, who says that we as citizens have a right to our pursuit of happiness however we see fit, he also believes that the only time government should interfere with the citizens is when one citizen is getting in the way of another citizens right to their happiness.

I tend to agree with Mill's assesment, an I am given a very laymen's version of him so just google "liberty john stuart mill" or something like that. But I would say that smoking more likely than not causes health problems (although Penn and Teller did a great bullshit episode on why smoking should be legalized and they gave some compelling evidence that smoking does not cause health problems), but I know that it is not curteous (sp?) to have your smoke in someone else face especially while they are working or eating. Many people are too shy or too "polite" to ask someone else to put it out, so it is even worse. Smoking should in no way be illegal, because if someone's happiness is to have bad breath and stained teeth and an expensive habit for that rush of nicotine, fine. But I think at the very least it causes others uncomfort and at the very worst (an likely) causes others health problems.

That being said
If it came down to a vote and there was no compelling evidence to believe that smoking was not a health hazard to others and all it did was cause others uncomfort, same as someone constantly farting or sneezing near you, then I couldnt vote it to be illegal in public places.

But with THAT being said,
I can garuntee that the smoking in publics places ban in california has relieved so much more uncomfort for those that were suffering because of the minority of smokers getting their smoke in others faces, and only causes smokers, who a minority, a small discomfort by having to do it outside for a lil bit. So I am so glad that they did pass this law.
 

ImFeklhr

Raconteur
Forum Member
Oct 3, 2005
4,585
129
0
San Francisco
gjn23 said:
is this topic still up for debate in places around the country????

that ban's been in effect for about 10 years out here in cali and in my mind it's the greatest law ever.

im still dumbfounded when i travel and eat out and they ask me "smoking or non-smoking" what????? still blows me away that airlines allowed smoking, not from the health perspective but more importantly from a safety perspective.

Amen on being totally adjusted to the smoking ban. As a smoker I actually enjoy it. Allows me the ability to step outside or into the smoking area, if I'm at a bar. Creates a nice routine of drinking then smoking :)

As for Vegas and casinos, I think it's so ingrained that I doubt Nevada will or should pass such a law.

Militant anti-smokers drive me nuts, because I tend to agree the health effects of occasional second hand exposure is far lower (perhaps non-existant?) than breathing in car exhaust on the side of the road. But I CAN understand a non smoker not wanting to come home from a night out smelling like an ashtray.

And I am all about the theory of being able to do whatever you want as long as it doesn't infringe on someone elses persuit of that same goal. A fine Liberatian ideal. Gets tricky though!

ATT.jpg
 

BetterUp

Registered User
Forum Member
Mar 4, 2005
123
0
0
I have come to like the smoking bans. I now save at least $10,000 per year eating and drinking at home or at friends houses.

Thanks again Big Brother. :142smilie
 

SpursDynasty

Registered User
Forum Member
Oct 29, 2005
2,363
16
0
Long Beach, California
Hmmm... I hate public tobbaco smokers who act oblivious to others.

Just want to light a joint and blow it right into a face of a tobbaco-only smoker and they can experience a lil second hand smoke of my kind.
 

Chadman

Realist
Forum Member
Apr 2, 2000
7,501
42
48
SW Missouri
Never ceases to amaze me when smoking in public supporters complain about non-smokers just going somewhere else if they don't want to experience smoke, and yet they don't allow for the simple answer of going outside or to a smoking area to smoke a cigarette, or waiting a half hour or an hour while eating a meal to light up. I have experienced both sides of this issue, being on a Chamber of Commerce Board and watching my mother die of emphesyma and my father die of lung cancer. I listened to a four-hour town hall meeting in my town with organized commentary from both sides. Good points on both sides, to be sure. Personally, I kind of side with the business owner to do what they want with their business to a degree, but public safety and health issues are a part of doing business every day. I think local communities have a right to enact legislation from a public health standpoint, and cigarette smoke certainly would fall in this category to me. I kind of think this is a local or state issue in many ways, and not a Federal one. I can honestly go either way on it.
 

kosar

Centrist
Forum Member
Nov 27, 1999
11,112
55
0
ft myers, fl
I used to love sitting at the counter eating breakfast about 9 inches from somebody on the next stool. You walk in and they're there smoking away waiting for their food. Their food comes, the cigs disappear as I guess it's not that appealing to eat and smoke at the same time. Just about the time they finish eating and start chain smoking again, my food comes with the smoke blowing right in my face. Tasty.

In an offshoot on Spurs Dynastys thing, I often thought about packing a dip and putting a nice appetizing spit cup right next to their plate.
 

AR182

Registered User
Forum Member
Nov 9, 2000
18,654
87
0
Scottsdale,AZ
kosar said:
In an offshoot on Spurs Dynastys thing, I often thought about packing a dip and putting a nice appetizing spit cup right next to their plate.


i'd pay to see that....


i don't like the gov't. getting involved on this issue...as business owners, restaurants should know what works & doesn't work...i don't mind a restaurant having a smoking section...
 

samayam

Registered User
Forum Member
Feb 19, 2006
265
0
0
AR182 said:
i don't like the gov't. getting involved on this issue...as business owners, restaurants should know what works & doesn't work...i don't mind a restaurant having a smoking section...



Right on AR. Thats my main beef.
 

kosar

Centrist
Forum Member
Nov 27, 1999
11,112
55
0
ft myers, fl
AR182 said:
i'd pay to see that....

On a somewhat related note, the casinos in Vegas always make me spit out my dip at the tables if they catch me doing it. Apparently it's now in the waitress union, or whatevers, contract because it's considered a toxic hazard.

Walking around for 8 hours in a mushroom cloud of smoke? Not toxic. Picking up a bottle with spit in it. Toxic. Weird.
 

NySportsfan

Registered User
Forum Member
Jun 26, 2002
1,745
0
0
Long Island, NY
kosar said:
On a somewhat related note, the casinos in Vegas always make me spit out my dip at the tables if they catch me doing it. Apparently it's now in the waitress union, or whatevers, contract because it's considered a toxic hazard.

Walking around for 8 hours in a mushroom cloud of smoke? Not toxic. Picking up a bottle with spit in it. Toxic. Weird.


I would agree with you, but the ventilation clears the smoke out of those casinos one would think.....the only 'issue' with dip I could see is that if they are standing right next to you and breathing/talking it stinks and is objectionable to 'look at' a cup with sh*t and spit in it, but personally I dont really care.......on another note, you said waitress union, does every fawkin group of workers in this country have a union? there are no golf caddies union I know of but thats sure to come up next, unions just try and rob blind the employers and ask for money they dont deserve, but thats another topic for another day.....i like no smoking in restaurants though to echo your breakfast story, I dont want to smell smoke blowing right into my face when i'm eating a burger or something, it tastes like crap
 

gjn23

Registered User
Forum Member
Mar 20, 2002
9,319
45
48
54
So. Cal
the best is the hole in the wall rest. in middle of nowhere ohio that's about 700 square feet with a bar in the center selling pull tabs with degenerates drinking and gambling.

"would you like a smoking or non smoking table sir?"

"really....is there a difference, because i cant see more than 10 feet in front of me with all the smoke circulating thru this shoebox????"

i'm all for business rights....that said.....go smoke outside.
 

BobbyBlueChip

Trustee
Forum Member
Dec 27, 2000
20,715
290
83
53
Belly of the Beast
DOGS THAT BARK said:
Frankly I think if the gov and states are going to take that stance they should just ban sale of tobacco--might be only way I can quit:)


Without tobacco taxes, 36 states would be insolvent by 2008. That's the bad thing about being a state gov't - they're not allowed to print money like the fed.
 

kosar

Centrist
Forum Member
Nov 27, 1999
11,112
55
0
ft myers, fl
NySportsfan said:
I would agree with you, but the ventilation clears the smoke out of those casinos one would think.....the only 'issue' with dip I could see is that if they are standing right next to you and breathing/talking it stinks and is objectionable to 'look at' a cup with sh*t and spit in it, but personally I dont really care.......on another note, you said waitress union, does every fawkin group of workers in this country have a union?

Ventillation has gotten better over the years, for sure. It's still pretty f*cking smokey. Go out there sometime and let me know what you think.

No, nobody is 'standing next to me talking to me' being offended by my 'breath' and the cup is out of sight of patrons and employees. Under the rail on the ledge playing craps and in my lap playing blackjack. It's not on the table.

They have a Food and Beverage union in Vegas that is very strong. Apparently they have determined that the bottle is 'toxic.'
 
Bet on MyBookie
Top