Someone explain why "Voter ID" is pissing off so many people

Penguinfan

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Admittedly, I don't know much about the situation but it seems on the surface there shouldn't be much of a problem here.

Why should you not have to show ID to vote?

Don't you have to show ID anytime a law enforcement official asks for it if you are out in public? Why would anyone NOT want to have ID on them?

What stops you from voting under a different name if you can vote without ID?
 

Skulnik

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Admittedly, I don't know much about the situation but it seems on the surface there shouldn't be much of a problem here.

Why should you not have to show ID to vote?

Don't you have to show ID anytime a law enforcement official asks for it if you are out in public? Why would anyone NOT want to have ID on them?

What stops you from voting under a different name if you can vote without ID?

You are correct.

:0074
 

Trampled Underfoot

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Admittedly, I don't know much about the situation but it seems on the surface there shouldn't be much of a problem here.

Why should you not have to show ID to vote?

Don't you have to show ID anytime a law enforcement official asks for it if you are out in public? Why would anyone NOT want to have ID on them?

What stops you from voting under a different name if you can vote without ID?

Who is less likely to have ID cards?

Students and minorities.

Next.
 

Trampled Underfoot

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And none of these people apply for JOBS, where they need to have ID to fill out an I 9 form.

:facepalm:

Got it. You need a job to be an American. Sounds familiar doesn't it?

segregation00.jpg
 

Skulnik

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Got it. You need a job to be an American. Sounds familiar doesn't it?

segregation00.jpg

I-9, Employment Eligibility Verification

Download Form I-9 (447KB PDF)
Download Form I-9 in Spanish (May be filled out by employers and employees in Puerto Rico ONLY) (443KB PDF)
Download Form M-274, Handbook for Employers (1KB PDF)

Purpose of Form :
All U.S. employers must complete and retain a Form I-9 for each individual they hire for employment in the United States. This includes citizens and noncitizens. On the form, the employer must examine the employment eligibility and identity document(s) an employee presents to determine whether the document(s) reasonably appear to be genuine and relate to the individual and record the document information on the Form I-9. The list of acceptable documents can be found on the last page of the form.
 

Trampled Underfoot

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I-9, Employment Eligibility Verification

Download Form I-9 (447KB PDF)
Download Form I-9 in Spanish (May be filled out by employers and employees in Puerto Rico ONLY) (443KB PDF)
Download Form M-274, Handbook for Employers (1KB PDF)

Purpose of Form :
All U.S. employers must complete and retain a Form I-9 for each individual they hire for employment in the United States. This includes citizens and noncitizens. On the form, the employer must examine the employment eligibility and identity document(s) an employee presents to determine whether the document(s) reasonably appear to be genuine and relate to the individual and record the document information on the Form I-9. The list of acceptable documents can be found on the last page of the form.

Go read my post again and try again. :facepalm:
 

The Sponge

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Who is less likely to have ID cards?

Students and minorities.

Next.

Tramp there is real big time fraud on Wall Street but the right wing wants nothing to do with that. There is basically no voter id fraud but somehow this is a big issue with these dirt bags so they can try to suppress the vote. Just wait and see. All the con artist are lined up here in Pa. This will be the state that ends up with all the problems just like it was Ohio in Bush 2nd term. The state Rove snuck in bullshit on the ballet along with the diebold owner being from Ohio. Obama had two years to fix those machines with a paper trail and he did nothing. Makes ya wonder. It would have been the first order of business for me.
 

Skulnik

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Tramp there is real big time fraud on Wall Street but the right wing wants nothing to do with that. There is basically no voter id fraud but somehow this is a big issue with these dirt bags so they can try to suppress the vote. Just wait and see. All the con artist are lined up here in Pa. This will be the state that ends up with all the problems just like it was Ohio in Bush 2nd term. The state Rove snuck in bullshit on the ballet along with the diebold owner being from Ohio. Obama had two years to fix those machines with a paper trail and he did nothing. Makes ya wonder. It would have been the first order of business for me.

Why isn't Democrat Jon Corzine in JAIL?

MF GLOBAL

jon-corzine.jpg
 

Skulnik

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Tramp there is real big time fraud on Wall Street but the right wing wants nothing to do with that. There is basically no voter id fraud but somehow this is a big issue with these dirt bags so they can try to suppress the vote. Just wait and see. All the con artist are lined up here in Pa. This will be the state that ends up with all the problems just like it was Ohio in Bush 2nd term. The state Rove snuck in bullshit on the ballet along with the diebold owner being from Ohio. Obama had two years to fix those machines with a paper trail and he did nothing. Makes ya wonder. It would have been the first order of business for me.

Friday, 17 August 2012 16:15
Former MF Global CEO Jon Corzine Will Likely Get Off Scot-Free
Written by Bob Adelmann
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Ten months after stitching together the pieces of the MF Global collapse and bankruptcy in October 2011, the New York Times reported that criminal investigators aren?t likely to file criminal charges against the prime suspect: CEO Jon Corzine.

The unwinding and spectacular collapse of the derivatives trading firm began with a huge bet Corzine took with company money on risky European bonds, using leverage approaching 40:1. The initial bet was $1.5 billion but as he piled on, Corzine?s board of directors got nervous. He was able to placate ? some say intimidate ? them with his persona and a Powerpoint presentation and to let the trade ride.

Things began to unwind for Corzine as wind of the huge trade ? which could wipe out MF Global?s capital five times over if it went bad ? reached the ears of the Financial Industry Regulatory Authority (FINRA). When officials at FINRA demanded that MF Global increase its capital base to insure against the risk of the trade going south, Corzine balked and took his case directly to the SEC. Following his hasty visit to New York to visit with SEC officials, the SEC demanded that Corzine raise $200 million in new capital (instead of the $50 million Corzine offered) to offset the risks of the trade.

It didn?t take long for credit rating agencies to learn of this demand, and Standard & Poor?s dropped MF Global?s credit rating to junk status. From there it was just a matter of days.

Institutions such as JPMorgan demanded more collateral which was amplified by trading losses elsewhere in the company, forcing Corzine to move some $891 million from his customers? accounts to its broker-dealer. As the Times noted, ?MF Global dipped again and again into customer funds to meet the demands.?

All told, MF Global?s customers were out an estimated $1.6 billion.

Corzine adroitly sidestepped any responsibility in testimony he gave before congressional committees investigating the matter, and his assistant treasurer in Chicago, Edith O?Brien, took the Fifth. Corzine knew that any prosecution of his misbehavior would have to prove ?intent? rather than incompetence or error, and so he was careful in his testimony before Congress:

I never intended anyone at MF Global to misuse customer funds and I don?t believe that anything that I said could reasonably have been interpreted as an instruction to misuse customer funds. [Emphases added.]

Journalist Matt Taibbi, who has not bought Corzine's denials, wrote in Rolling Stone:

Nobody disputes the fact that MF Global officials dipped into customer accounts and took over $1.6 billion of customer money. We not only know that company officials reached into customer accounts, we know they brazenly lied to bondholders, ratings agencies and investors about the firm's financial condition ("MF Global's capital and liquidity has never been stronger," wrote the CFO of MF Global?s holding company, on the same day Moody?s downgraded it to junk status)....

This is not complicated at all. This is just stealing. You owe money, you don?t have the cash to cover it, and so you take money belonging to someone else to cover your debts. There?s no room at all here for an argument that this money was just lost due to a bad investment, an erroneous calculation based on someone's poor understanding of a complex transaction, etc. It?s straight-up embezzlement.

Taibbi also saw through the ruse that ?chaos? reigned during the final days of MF Global?s collapse and that it, along with ?porous risk controls,? were the real reason behind the collapse. Taibbi laughed this off:

I call this the ?Wizard of Oz? defense: a Big Twister hit the firm?s customer accounts, chaos ensued, and when the dust settled, no one knew where the heck little Dorothy and her money had gone.

With the investigators passing on pressing for criminal charges to be filed against Corzine, there are several glaring ironies remaining. First, the huge bets that Corzine made with company money, and then with customers? monies when the company?s funds were depleted, turned out to be profitable after all.

Second, investigators are currently negotiating with O?Brien, the assistant treasurer from Chicago, to waive her Fifth Amendment rights in exchange for immunity for her testimony about what actually happened in those last days.

Finally, rumors are surfacing that Corzine is about to start another investment company, this time a hedge fund where he will manage investors? funds for them. There will be just one stipulation: they must have bad memories in order to play.
 

Skulnik

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Tramp there is real big time fraud on Wall Street but the right wing wants nothing to do with that. There is basically no voter id fraud but somehow this is a big issue with these dirt bags so they can try to suppress the vote. Just wait and see. All the con artist are lined up here in Pa. This will be the state that ends up with all the problems just like it was Ohio in Bush 2nd term. The state Rove snuck in bullshit on the ballet along with the diebold owner being from Ohio. Obama had two years to fix those machines with a paper trail and he did nothing. Makes ya wonder. It would have been the first order of business for me.



Jeff Connaughton.

Chief of Staff to Sen. Ted Kaufman, 111th Congress

Obama and the Rule of Law

Posted: 12/19/11 01:55 PM ET

Long silent and now contradictory, President Obama needs to deliver a clarifying speech about our financial markets and the rule of law. Speaking in Kansas on December 6, he said, "Too often, we've seen Wall Street firms violating major anti-fraud laws because the penalties are too weak and there's no price for being a repeat offender." Just five days later on 60 Minutes, he said, "Some of the least ethical behavior on Wall Street wasn't illegal." Which is it? Have there been no prosecutions because Wall Street acted legally (albeit unethically)? Or did Wall Street repeatedly violate major anti-fraud laws (and should thus find itself in the dock)?

The President is confusing "legal" with "difficult to prosecute successfully." The Justice Department's repeated decisions not to risk losing at trial against Wall Street executives don't make these person's actions legal. (If a district attorney can't prove the actual thief stole your wallet, that doesn't make stealing legal. It simply means that, regrettably, a malefactor goes unpunished.) As Securities and Exchange Commission Enforcement Director Robert Khuzami said in Senate testimony in 2009, Wall Street perpetrators "are smart people who understand that they are crossing the line" and "are plotting their defense at the same time they're committing their crime."

Moreover, the President is misleading us when he says that Wall Street firms violate anti-fraud law because the penalties are too weak. Repeat financial fraudsters don't pay relatively paltry -- and therefore painless -- penalties because of statutory caps on such penalties. Rather, regulatory officials, appointed by Obama, negotiated these comparatively trifling fines. This week, the F.D.I.C. settled a suit against Washington Mutual officials for just $64 million, an amount that will be covered mostly by insurance policies WaMu took out on behalf of executives, who themselves will pay just $400,000. And recently a federal judge rejected the S.E.C.'s latest settlement with Citigroup, an action even the Wall Street Journal called "a rebuke of the cozy relationship between regulators and the regulated that too often leaves justice as an orphan."

The Obama Justice Department hasn't tried a single Wall Street executive in a criminal court. Against a handful, it decided to let the S.E.C. bring civil charges of fraud, which are easier to prove. So if defendants' wrists are merely being slapped by the S.E.C. instead of cuffed by the Justice Department, Obama has only his appointees to blame.

For three important reasons, the President needs to explain why the Justice Department has filed away its investigations of big banks and Wall Street firms without indicting anyone. First, American confidence in the system is deeply shaken. Second, it strains credulity for millions of Americans -- and has impelled thousands of them to occupy public places in protest -- that no banking or insurance executive deserves criminal prosecution for the actions that brought on the financial crisis. Third, by failing to prosecute a single high-profile Wall Street actor today, the Administration is failing to deter financial fraud tomorrow.

The jury is out (alas, only metaphorically) on whether Wall Street practices that accompanied the financial crisis amounted to criminal fraud. Some legal commentators have concluded that the causes of the crisis were systemic and not the result of malfeasance or conspiracy. The debate about whether practices were illegal or simply unethical will never be resolved because only a jury can render a verdict after weighing the evidence, presented by opposing counsel, for each element of an alleged crime. That said, independent fact-finders like the Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission, the Senate Permanent Committee on Investigations, and the bankruptcy examiner for Lehman Brothers have compiled compelling evidence of what, to many, certainly looks like fraud.

But did the Justice Department's senior leadership even make targeting high-level fraud a top priority? Did it plan, staff, fund, and direct a thorough, probing investigation of each of the primary potential defendants? While I was working in the Senate, conversations I had with Justice Department officials led me to believe that it didn't. As the New York Times and New Yorker have reported, the Department's leadership never organized or supported strike-force teams of bank regulators, F.B.I. agents, and federal prosecutors for each of the potential primary defendants and ignored past lessons about how to crack financial fraud. When Senator Ted Kaufman (D-DE) and I met privately with Department officials in September 2009, one of them explained they were dependent on investigators to bring them cases (which typified, I believed, their passive approach). And, for their part, the investigators were receiving no help from bank regulatory agencies (in the 1990s, successful prosecutions after the savings-and-loan scandal hinged on referrals from the responsible supervising agencies, which provided key roadmaps for F.B.I. investigations).

The Justice Department, F.B.I., and bank regulatory agencies failed to design a prosecutorial strategy that would've indicted and perhaps convicted many top executives who knew that their banks were selling fraudulent securities that bundled together thousands of largely bad loans. These loans, known in the industry as stated-income loans and (more glibly and more accurately) as liar loans, were issued without verifying the borrowers' income. A former executive in charge of fraud investigations at mortgage lender Countrywide Financial told 60 Minutes that mortgage fraud at her firm was "systemic," but federal investigators never contacted her. The U.S. attorney in Los Angeles has already declined to prosecute Countrywide executives. The Senate's Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations found that approximately 90 percent of WaMu's home-equity loans were stated-income loans, creating, in the words of Treasury Department Inspector General Eric Thorson, a "target rich environment for fraud." Yet the U.S. Attorney in Seattle decided not to indict anyone at WaMu.

Failure to disclose material information is another form of potential fraud. Merrill Lynch, for example, understated its risky mortgage holdings by hundreds of billions of dollars. Executives at Lehman Brothers assured investors in the summer of 2008 that the company was sound, even though the bankruptcy examiner later concluded that Lehman had engaged in "actionable balance-sheet manipulation."

Yes, with financial fraud, criminal intent is difficult to prove, especially when a defendant relied on professional advice from accountants and lawyers (and in some cases may even have been acting with the knowledge of the bank's regulator, who was apparently more concerned about the bank's financial soundness than about full disclosure to investors). But we shouldn't outsource the interpretation of fraud laws to a potential defendant's accountant and lawyers. And why haven't prosecutors used provisions in the Sarbanes-Oxley Act, which put in place tough criminal sanctions in the wake of Enron and other cases of massive corporate frauds? In the absence of an aggressive, targeted effort by the Justice Department, we'll never know whether crimes may have been proved beyond a reasonable doubt.

Why didn't this happen? I wish I knew. At the Senate oversight hearings, Justice Department officials assured the Judiciary Committee that every lead was being pursued and every rock turned over. Doubtless they'll continue to claim this. Yet in Ron Suskind's book, Confidence Men, he quotes Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner as saying, "The confidence in the system is so fragile still... a disclosure of a fraud... could result in a run, just like Lehman." The Obama Administration is pushing hard for a 50-state settlement with the major banks for their fraudulent foreclosure practices, even though several state attorneys general have rejected this approach because, in their view, it would shield too much wrongdoing. Regrettably, Obama's top officials and lawyers seem more eager to restore the financial sector to health than establish criminal accountability among the executives who were in charge.

In 1986, speaking about the failure of another president's Justice Department to vigorously prosecute white-collar crime, former Chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee and current Vice President Joseph Biden said that "people believe that our system of law and those who manage it have failed, and may not even have tried, to deal effectively with unethical and possibly illegal misconduct in high places." Until this president stops calling Wall Street's deleterious actions "not illegal," he's failing to deter -- and therefore effectively encouraging -- future financial fraud. And until he gives a clear and full explanation of the inadequate response of his Justice Department and S.E.C., he and his appointees are helping to undermine the public's faith in equal justice under the law.

Jeff Connaughton is the former chief of staff to former U.S. Senator Ted Kaufman (D-DE), who chaired two Senate Judiciary Committee oversight hearings on financial fraud prosecutions in 2009 and 2010.
 

Trampled Underfoot

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Hey skul. You wanna respond to my post or what? Do I have to include a video of an anal rape to get you to pay attention?

:mj07: :mj07: :mj07:
 

Lumi

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In the shadows
No Papers No Fear



undocubuspic-650.jpg



Over the past several weeks, representatives from a growing and influential group have been crossing YOUR NATION by bus, telling our story to anyone and everyone who will listen.

We?ve had crowds! And we?ve had the media!

Who are we?


Well, YOU probably call us something negative and nasty, like ?illegal aliens?, but we much prefer ?undocumented worker?.


And now, thanks to President Obama?s amnesty plans for us, we?d much rather you called us ?undocumented voters?!

Because that?s exactly what we?re going to be very, very soon.


Sooner than you think, we promise you.
The media calls our bus the ?Undocu-bus??
?isn?t that cute? Almost warm and cuddly? That?s exactly what we want.


You conservatives, well, let us put it this way:



all that ?law and order? you keep preaching? We just don?t have time for that any longer.
We?ve got a mission and a timetable to keep, and your silly laws like SB-1070 and your ?employer sanctions? laws to keep businesses from hiring us just aren?t part of our plan.
Now, who are we really? Our bus is full of day laborers and students, but also immigration activists. In other words, professionals. And we know how to get things done.


Every stop we make across ?your country?, we stage rallies and lead chants of ?no papers, no fear?, because we aren?t going to let you hold us back any longer.

Yes, America, you DO have jobs we want, and we will work at them for less that you are willing to accept. And yes, we will send that money back home, out of your country, out of your precious economy.


But this isn?t open for debate?
?this is all bought and paid for with our votes!

We began our tour in Arizona to show you just how unafraid we really are. You don?t scare us anymore.


You may have Sheriff Joe, but we have El Presidente, Barack Obama!

And from Arizona we have already driven through New Mexico and Colorado, and through Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi and Tennessee.


And we aren?t going to stop!

Is there a fear of being arrested because we are undocumented? A little.
But your jails and your government already lets out violent criminal immigrants, so the risk to us is very, very low.


So what can you do, really? I mean, if we are going to vote, are you?

There?s always the possibility that you might vote in higher numbers than we do? but given the history of recent elections?

And there?s always the possibility that you might get involved with a group like Ban Amnesty Now and their new PAC. Yes, there we see a real threat?
?because if B.A.N.-PAC elects enough of you conservatives to Congress to undo Presidente Obama?s amnesty for us, then we will have real problems.

And if B.A.N.-PAC elects enough of you conservatives to Congress to secure the border, so the next time I get deported I can?t just walk back across? Another problem again.

But are you so determined to stop me from taking your jobs and stealing your elections that you would give to B.A.N.-PAC and join thousands of other conservatives across your nation to stop illegal immigration and amnesty for undocumented voters like me?


I?m counting on you not to.
Barack Obama is counting on you to sit back and take it.

After all, it?s his country, not yours.

Remember, my friend, no paper-no fear!
Sincerely,
America?s undocumented voters

P.S. You can CLICK HERE to join B.A.N.-PAC and stop us? or you can watch us claim another victory. Be sure to come see us when our bus rolls through your town!
 

Duff Miver

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Fair enough, but why don't they have ID?

How do you stop voter fraud if people don't have ID?


I'm not saying I'm on one side or the other, I honestly don't understand what the big deal is about having to have ID?????

Everyone who now votes does have ID. It's called "voter registration form". They got that form by presenting proof of who they are . Sometimes the proof was a birth certificate, sometimes a passport, sometimes military ID, sometimes school records, etc.

Now Republicans are demanding a specific, state-issued photo ID which some folks don't have, and the states are making it hard to get. IN some states, it's over 100 miles to the nearest issuing place.

Your passport, which was issued after application to, and investigation by the Department of State? Your US Military ID? IN some states you can wipe your ass with them if you
 

The Sponge

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This is why people are sick of you. You never answer a thing. You just post non stop bullshit.

Just put him on ignore like most others. Solves most of the problems with this brain dead easily manipulated asshole. I would like to just punch him right in the face but don't want to knock out the stupid in him and get some on me.
 
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