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countinguy

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Do i have this wrong i thought sportsbetting.com and sportsbook.com are completely different.

I know alot of people w/past problems w/sportsbook.com and i would never use them. I thought they were the ones that bought paradaise poker to spun it off into several different poker sites. I am pertty sure they are the company filling my mailbox up w/shit all the time, telling me I have a free hundred for just signing up, which is complete bs. The free hundo always comes after ur inital deposit w/30 percent bonus. I don't trust sites like that they get ur money and run.
 

MadJack

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Do i have this wrong i thought sportsbetting.com and sportsbook.com are completely different.
you don't have it wrong.

we are NOT OWNED BY Jazette. SPORTSBETTING.COM is an independent web site.
 

MadJack

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OK, I'll ask....

What's a correlated parlay?

Nolan wrote this for us when he was working here.

http://www.madjacksports.com/nolan/article1012.shtml

CORRELATED PARLAYS and CORRELATED TEASERS

By Nolan Dalla

(All Rights Reserved)

______________________________________________________

Most parlays bets are extremely foolish. This is because winning parlays are not paid-off correctly according to the true odds of winning the bet. Consider that a two-team parlay should be paid-off at precisely 3-1. Instead, two-team parlays return only 13-5 to the winner. That's a difference of 2/15ths?..or a staggering 13.3 percent! It's a horrible wager. You might as well bet the FIELD or play the HARDWAYS at the craps table -- which are generally considered to be "sucker" bets. The odds against you are about the same. 13.3 percent vig --slot machines have higher payback scales than that!

If you prefer three-team parlays, your odds are not much better. Three-team parlays should be paid-off at precisely 7-1. But instead, three-team parlays return only 6-1 to the winner. That's a difference of 1/8th?..or about 12.5 percent! Starting to get the picture?

I've never met a professional sports bettor that bet serious money on parlays. There is absolutely NO financial incentive to do so. None whatsoever. Why would anyone bet multiple teams in a parlay so as NOT be paid-off according to the true odds? Of course, flat bets do not pay "correct odds" either (after all, we have to lay 11-10 on every bet). But the double-digit vig is just too high to overcome in the case of parlays. Conclusion: Parlays are a bad proposition.

That said, betting parlays can be very profitable in some instances. Before jumping to the conclusion that I am either crazy or contradicting myself, please read on.

Consider the implications of "correlated parlays." When betting parlays, most bettors take two (or more) teams and place them on a single ticket. The teams and games are totally independent of each other. For example, let's say Dallas is a 2-point favorite over Washington. In another game on the West Coast, San Francisco is a 4-point favorite over Atlanta. If both favorites are chosen, that means the parlay ticket consists of Dallas -2 and San Francisco -4. If both favorites cover, that's a 13-5 pay-off. The drawback is -- these are two completely INDEPENDENT wagers. One game has nothing to do with the other. So, if things go according to prediction and the 49ers roll-up the score on the Falcons, that's doesn't help the Dallas wager. Instead, a wise bettor should look for wagers that are related, or CORRELATED.



The correlation theory summed up in the following axiom of logic: If A happens, then B is likely to happen, also.

By "correlated" I mean the following: Look for parlays where IF things go according to prediction, THEN both wagers will probably win. A good example of this would be to bet Indianapolis (minus the points) when it plays a far weaker team. Also, bet the OVER on a two-team parlay (which can include totals), since the Colts are expected to score lots of points if they cover the spread. So, the parlay payoff at 13-5 (while theoretically the actual payback odds) is in a practical sense overcome, since most bettors would agree that if the Colts score in the 30s or 40s, they will -- (a) usually cover the spread, and (b) the total will go OVER. Another correlated parlay might be Baltimore and the UNDER, since many Ravens games are low-scoring and if the Ravens defense plays well -- (a) Baltimore usually covers, and (b) the game goes UNDER. There are just two of the most obvious examples. I'm not suggesting to parlay these teams and situations very week, only that some teams and totals seem to go hand-in-hand (i.e. are "correlated").

If you can parlay "proposition" bets, this angle is much stronger. High-profile games often have additional wagering possibilities -- such as most rushing yards, most passing yards, first team to score, and so forth. Last year's Super Bowl had something like 150 proposition bets. In his book. "Sharp Sports Betting" Stanford Wong brought up a wonderful correlated parlay from last year's Super Bowl. Wong parlayed the FIRST TEAM TO KICK A FIELD GOAL proposition with TEAM TO KICK LONGEST FIELD GOAL prop. Wong reasoned that, since the first field goal could very well be the ONLY field goal of the game, that might end up being the LONGEST field goal, as well. After all, about a quarter of the time, one team will not achieve a field goal in a game. Wong parlayed the FIRST FG with LONGEST FG and FIRST FG with SHORTEST FG (two parlay tickets). While the odds were not exactly 13-5 because the sportsbooks shaved the prop numbers to include variance in vig (i.e. having to lay perhaps -120 or -130 on the prop), both parlays seemed to be +EV situations. NOTE: Some books currrently will not allow you to parlay closely-related propositions (they are catching on to this angle). But you can still parlay "semi-correlated" props. An example would be -- FIRST TEAM TO SCORE with TEAM A TO WIN THE GAME (pick the same team obviously). Since it goes to reason that if TEAM A scores first, that means it will have a better chance of covering the spread. There are literally dozens, if not hundreds of situations where "correlated parlays" and "semi-correlated parlays" can be profitable. But, you must also be somewhat selective.

What about "correlated teasers?" This applies to taking both the side and total of a single game. It applies to 2-team teasers only. While I usually advise against 6-point teasers on NFL totals (the 6-point added are not significant enough to make a difference in most games), there are situations where a correlated teaser is a wise bet. Let's use the Baltimore Ravens as an example once again. Suppose the Ravens are playing the Cleveland Browns in a December game in Cleveland. Temperatures are expected to be very cold. The total on a game like this might be in the 33 range. Ravens would probably be a 8-9 point favorite (go with me here to prove the point). While you might not have enough confidence in Baltimore to lay 8 points on the road and the total doesn't seem to provide much of an advantage -- what about correlating the teaser? What if you could tease Baltimore down to -2 and tease the total up to 39? That might be worth a look. Of course, one could also look at different angles -- such as teasing the Browns +14 with the UNDER, which might be just as strong a wager. Every game is unique. You get the idea.

The important thing to remember is that most parlay bets are a terrible investment. But when they are correlated, parlays can be very strong wagers indeed (with positive expectation -- assuming your handicapping methods are solid). Teasers on their own can be profitable because they take advantage of picking up "key" numbers, which is critical in football handicapping. Correlated teasers can be just as profitable, because if the game goes according to prediction, the teaser on the side and total provides a sense of insurance for both wagers.

In conclusion, I will repeat once again why correlated bets are much wiser than parlays and teasers that are based on independent events (separate games):



If A happens, then B is likely to happen, also.
 

jpblack34

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Jack, have you had a chance to read the stories of some of these players?

I don't play online anymore, but do these online books have rules against correlated parlays generally?

From my reading, it sounds like Sportsbook just created this rule out of the blue, graded plays as losers, and then took there money. I'm very curious to hear what your thoughts are about this situation.

JP
 

MadJack

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Jack, have you had a chance to read the stories of some of these players?

I don't play online anymore, but do these online books have rules against correlated parlays generally?

From my reading, it sounds like Sportsbook just created this rule out of the blue, graded plays as losers, and then took there money. I'm very curious to hear what your thoughts are about this situation.

JP

i spent most of the night catching up on this issue.

you can't believe everything you read on the forums, i hope you know. the one site that took sportsbetting.com down jumped the gun, imo.

from what i gather, most of the account problems are with sportsbook.com. i am reading that there are 31 accounts out of how many 10's of thousands that were confiscated.

sportsbook.com has always taken these wagers, even ADVERTISED they take them. it sounds like some sharpies have been taking advantage of the situation and sportsbook.com put their foot down by using their written rule to confiscate the money.

it also sounds like the accounts in question knew they were taking advantage of the book and their correlated parlay bets.

(i think both parties in the above scenerio are wrong and there should be, maybe, a compromise?)

i don't know what to think yet because i don't have the full story from sportsbook.com. as soon as i get their official statement i will pass my judgement. as of right now, i think if the book took the bets, they SHOULD PAY THE BETS. i'm not sure they won't.

i want to see what happens in the next 2-3 days before jumping the gun.

also, i have no problem taking an advertiser down. i was the first to take ALL the BoS brands down and saved a lot of guys money that read my post and acted on it by withdrawaling their money.

i also give the benefit of doubt when a book makes good. i was one of the ONLY sites that stuck by GrandCentral and everybody got paid and they grew up to become nine.com, a very successful A+ book that VIP bought.

see what happens.
 

The Judge

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These types of close ratio parlay wagers have been bet on for decades and as recently as 2003 maybe 50% of online books would openly and knowingly accept them. However, these days most books will not and it is mostly locals who do not know better that will allow correlated parlays. It is the job of the line managers to look at every game and divide the total by the point spread and if the result is less than two (some use three) to not allow same game parlays. All of the wagering software in use has the ability to check each games and to not accept same game parlays if the ratios are too close so the books have no excuse if these plays were accepted.

To go back and disallow these plays after the fact or even after the game has started like the books under Sportsbook.com management have admittedly done is wrong and should not be allowed to happen. I can?t even imagine a valid argument that would begin to justify this action. The only way they are getting away with is because ?they can? which is unfortunate and in my opinion, theft.
 

MadJack

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To go back and disallow these plays after the fact or even after the game has started like the books under Sportsbook.com management have admittedly done is wrong and should not be allowed to happen. I can?t even imagine a valid argument that would begin to justify this action. The only way they are getting away with is because ?they can? which is unfortunate and in my opinion, theft.

i agree, judge. going back and taking back bets that were graded weeks ago is the craziest thing i ever heard of in this business. there *HAS* to be a valid reason, no?

i also understand some of the guys that were affected are still playing there. WTF is that about?

there's something out there nobody knows about yet. at least i don't as i just heard about this yesterday and still am gathering information.

thanks
 

MadJack

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Until sportsbook.com releases something to make me change my mind, I have removed them from our list of sponsors and have removed all banners and links directing people to their website.

Two things prompted me to make this decision prior to them releasing the infomation they promised me.

In the rules on their website they have the following posted:

- Accepted bets cannot be cancelled or amended in any way, either by the customer or by Management.

- Parlay or Multiple Betting
No parlay wagers can be accepted where individual wagers are 'connected' , 'dependant' or 'correlated'. For example, one wager in your parlay is for Sampras to beat Agassi in the 4th round of Wimbledon and the second or additional part of the parlay is for Sampras to win the overall Wimbledon title. The match forms part of the overall tournament and is therefore 'correlated'. In the same way, you cannot parlay the total of the first half of a football game with the total of the game line itself, as the two are 'dependent'.


My opinion is; they should make good on their published rules or madjacksports.com won't be sending any business their way.
 

beantownjim

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JACK THATS WHY WE RESPECT YOU SO MUCH YOU CANT BE BOUGHT OUT FOR THE ADVERTISING MONEY LIKE SOME OF THESE OTHER FORUMS:toast: BOYS WE ARE LUCKY TO HAVE A GUY LIKE JACK ON OUR SIDE.

BOYS THIS IS WHY YOU HAVE TO PLAY AT RELIABLE SHOPS OTHERWISE YOU MIGHT GET ROBBED LIKE I DID AT (CASCADE SPORTSBOOK)
 

jpblack34

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Until sportsbook.com releases something to make me change my mind, I have removed them from our list of sponsors and have removed all banners and links directing people to their website.

Two things prompted me to make this decision prior to them releasing the infomation they promised me.

In the rules on their website they have the following posted:

- Accepted bets cannot be cancelled or amended in any way, either by the customer or by Management.

- Parlay or Multiple Betting
No parlay wagers can be accepted where individual wagers are 'connected' , 'dependant' or 'correlated'. For example, one wager in your parlay is for Sampras to beat Agassi in the 4th round of Wimbledon and the second or additional part of the parlay is for Sampras to win the overall Wimbledon title. The match forms part of the overall tournament and is therefore 'correlated'. In the same way, you cannot parlay the total of the first half of a football game with the total of the game line itself, as the two are 'dependent'.


My opinion is; they should make good on their published rules or madjacksports.com won't be sending any business their way.

Nice work Jack. Hopefully they will make good on this. :clap: :clap:
 

The Judge

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Statement from Sportsbook.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Recently it was brought to our attention that a very small number of our customers were placing wagers which were in breach of our house rules. Most of these customers were repeatedly warned about their behavior but continued to circumvent the rules by exploiting a loophole in our system. The decision was made to remove the winnings earned from these wagers dating back to September 1st 2007.

There has been some question as to why the similar losing bets were also not canceled or 'no-actioned'. When we reviewed the accounts in question, the bulk of wagering activity was made up of those wagers which were clearly in violation of the house rules. Any player who believes that the removal of their winnings from these disallowed bets should also apply to their losing disallowed bets can contact us at expedite@sportsbook.com for an account review. We will then contact them directly to review, bet by bet, their account history.

If upon a second review of the account the decision remains that the customer repeatedly and knowingly exploited the system in order to place those wagers, then no further action will be taken. If we are satisfied that a minority of their wagers contravened the house rules, then we will also no action any losing wagers of that type within the same time-frame.

Please note we will not discuss any individual players accounts in public forums.

We have already taken steps to prevent any such occurrence again in the future and will work closely with any affected customers to resolve this matter in a timely fashion.

Thanks for your understanding.
 

The Sponge

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THOSE ARE THE SAME TWO FORUMS THAT WOULDNT STAND UP TO LENNY ANS CASCADE SPORTSBOOK WHEN I WAS ROBBED OF 660 DOLLARS SO I WOULDNT PAY ANY ATTENTION TO THAT BULLSHIT.BOTH OF THOSE FORUMS DIDNT HAVE THE BALLS TO TAKE A STAND WHEN CASCADE SPORTSBOOK BROKE A WRITTEN RULE ACCEPTING A BET 15 MINUTES AFTER A GAME STARTED THEN GRADING IT IN THERE FAVOR.THOSE ARE NOT SPORTS FORUMS THEY ARE CARNIVALS WITH ALL THE CLOWNS DOING NOTHING BUT TALKING OVER EACH OTHER.

IMAGINE A FORUM PROTECTING A CORRUPT SPORTSBOOK TO MAKE AN ADVERTISER HAPPY THIS IS WHAT THOSE OTHER TWO FORUMS DID TO ME.I HAVE NO RESPECT FOR THOSE THIEVES IN MY OPINION THEY ARE WORSE THAN CASCADE SPORTSBOOK BECAUSE THEY PROTECTED THE RAT BASTARDS

Beaner i was wondering since you basically think those forums should have somehow gotten back your money, i was wondering if you could give me my two grand because i saw you once promoting this Cascade book and with your good word i went with them. Now im out two grand.:shrug:
 

The Sponge

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anyone ever see this books sister books? Must be about thirty of them. I figured a book may have 3 or 4 but this many was a lot in my opinion.
 

beantownjim

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HEY SPONGE SORRY BUT YOU WONT GET A PENNY OUT OF LENNY AND CASCADE SPORTSBOOK I KNEW THEY WERE F-CKING CROOKS WHEN THEY STOLE MY 660 DOLLARS.IMAGINE ACCEPTING A BET 15 MINUTES AFTER A GAME STARTED THEN WATCHING THE GAME AND AS SOON AS IT LOST TELL ME I HAD ACTION F-CK YOU LENNY YOU RAT BASTARD I HOPE SOMEBODY GOES AFTER YOU I AM HEARING YOU OWE 200,000 GRAND AND YOU DESERVE ALL YOU GET.

BOYS LET THIS BE A LESSON ONLY PLAY AT THE BOOKS THAT YOU KNOW DONT F-CK AROUND AND I WOULD SUGGEST 5 DIMES OR BET JAMAICA
 

The Sponge

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HEY SPONGE SORRY BUT YOU WONT GET A PENNY OUT OF LENNY AND CASCADE SPORTSBOOK I KNEW THEY WERE F-CKING CROOKS WHEN THEY STOLE MY 660 DOLLARS.IMAGINE ACCEPTING A BET 15 MINUTES AFTER A GAME STARTED THEN WATCHING THE GAME AND AS SOON AS IT LOST TELL ME I HAD ACTION F-CK YOU LENNY YOU RAT BASTARD I HOPE SOMEBODY GOES AFTER YOU I AM HEARING YOU OWE 200,000 GRAND AND YOU DESERVE ALL YOU GET.

BOYS LET THIS BE A LESSON ONLY PLAY AT THE BOOKS THAT YOU KNOW DONT F-CK AROUND AND I WOULD SUGGEST 5 DIMES OR BET JAMAICA

I just thought that maybe as a good buddy you would give me back my two grand since i believed you when you said they were a good solid book. Dam
 

neil45

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sportsbetting.com SUCKS

sportsbetting.com SUCKS

Sportsbetting.com is horrible do not deposit any more with that scaming book. Ive been waiting for a withdrawl for months. they keep lying to you to get you off the phone. REPEAT SPORTSBETTING.COM IS A FRAUD!!!!!!!!
 
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