THE GOLDMAN EXPERIMENT by Nolan Dalla

MadJack

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for those who don't know, Nolan has his own page here at madjacks and it's updated daily.

http://www.madjacksports.com/nolan.htm

THE GOLDMAN EXPERIMENT

I've been wanting to go public with this new betting system for almost two years. Now, I have decided to share it with readers. The idea I am about to tell you about is derived from the "Polyester Picks" experiment I did during part of the 2002 NBA regular season. The idea goes something like this -- you find out who the squares like then bet the other side. Sportsbooks and sportsbars are crammed with losing bettors. Imagine the money you could make just by manipulating that ignorance and turning it into a tangible bet on the opposite side. It's a sort of sports betting alchemy, turning "fools' gold" into the real thing.

Before I tell you about The Goldman Experiment, first let me explain how I came to appreciate the notion that the public is wrong most of the time (not only about sports, but just about everything -- but that's another topic). The following story is a re-post from March of this year:





WHICH TEAM do you think the SQUARES will be betting on tonight? You know, the guy standing there in the Vegas sportsbook with a linesheet in one hand, and a watered-down beer in the other. You've all seen the guy I'm talking about. The loser. You know, the guy with the crack of his ass showing. He's looking up at the big board and "capping" the games simply by glancing up at the odds. The guy with one striped sock and a dark blue sock and a pair of tattered polyester shorts with the 46-inch waist. Who's that guy gonna be betting on tonight? You wanna' be on the same side as THAT guy?

The moral: Bet against the squares!

This idea came about from a simple notion?..that the average "Joe" cannot win betting sports. You know it. And, I know it. The average guy is going to lose his ass in the long run. The more money he bets, the more money he loses. It's that simple. Not just because the house vig take its cut. Sure, that's part of it. But, it goes deeper than that. It's because, the average guy simply doesn't know how to handicap games and what to look for. Don't get me wrong, we are all learning in this business. Everyone deserves a chance to improve and learn. But this guy is different. He listens to the hype on ESPN and reads what the dopey sportswriters say, but he knows nothing about handicapping. That's the guy we want to be on the OPPOSITE side of -- EVERY SINGLE GAME, if possible. Anyone out there disagree with this point of view?

Let me tell you a little story. It's 100 percent true, although it's kind of embarrassing for me to admit a few things publicly. Here it goes:

I was about 22-years-old at the time. Still in college. I decided to take a trip to Las Vegas with a friend. I had read plenty of books about gambling (most were primers on gambling -- they just covered the basics) and was ahead of the curve. But the trouble was -- I didn't have the depth of knowledge and experience to be able to gamble wisely. Meaning no disrespect to the younger readers, most 22-year-olds don't have enough knowledge or experience to gamble wisely. It's just a fact. Maybe you need to go broke a few times before you learn what it's all about. I don't know.

Anyway, I went to Vegas on a package deal -- airfare, hotel, and everything was included for one price. I brought about $300 in cash with me (remember, I was a college student and this was 1984 -- so $300 was enough money for a good time in Las Vegas back in those days). Well, you can never have ENOUGH money in Las Vegas with all its vices and temptations. The very first night, my friend got in a poker game at the Flamingo. Wouldn't you know it. He lost his ENTIRE bankroll in an all-night poker game. So, he was broke before his trip was barely started. With four days still to go!

I was just starting to learn to count cards at the time, using a 1-5 spread. Id' bet the $2 minimum up to a $10 max -- totally amateurish stuff. I did most of my playing at the old Castaways -- which was torn down about ten years ago to make way for the Mirage. Of course, it wasn't as easy counting cards in the casino as Jerry Patterson made it seem in the book (that was the first count I learned). Somehow, reading about the count was much easier back at home laying by the swimming pool with a book in my hand than sitting inside the casino with all the drinks, and bright lights, and gambling activity all around me. Not surprisingly, I blitzed through my bankroll by the end of the second day and was broke myself about halfway through the trip.

Here's where my story gets REALLY interesting. Hold on folks, the guy in the polyester pants is coming up soon.

If you want to know what the definition of HELL really is, and I do mean total HELL -- trying being broke for a few days in Las Vegas. I mean, that's HELL. Add a non-refundable plane ticket and mark it 48 hours forward and you aren't just talking about hell, that's a Goddamned torture chamber! Both of us broke, with two days to go -- I remember my friend asking me that poignant question that I could not answer. "What are we going to do for the next two days -- just sit here with our XXXX in our hands?"

How do you answer a question like that? Join a labor pool? Sell blood? Rob a convenience store?

I went back to the hotel room, and wrestled a bunch of loose change out of my suitcase. I somehow came up with about $3 in coins. I know, really pitiful. Like I said, this is pretty embarrassing stuff. Wait, it gets worse. I took that $3 and played a hand of blackjack for $2 and won. Now, I was up to $5. My friend was into the horses, so we went over to the Barbary Coast sportsbook and bet on a race. The horse showed, or placed (I can't remember which) but I do remember that we got back something like $12 in cash. Next, we made a bet on one of the early baseball games. We watched our action for like three hours and collected the ticket. Incredibly, we had turned the $3 into something like $30. Damn, I felt rich.

Let me tell you something. Thirty dollars is a helluva' lot of money when your broke. I mean, it's like a life raft in the middle of the Pacific Ocean. On $30 -- you can eat a couple of meals, bet on a few games, even play a few dollars at a blackjack table. Any of you who have ever been broke inside a casino before will understand what exactly I'm talking about.

And this is where the guy with the polyester pants enters the picture. My friend and I walked across the street to Ballys (I forgot if it was the MGM or Ballys at the time, but the sportsbook was right there inside the entrance off of Flamingo Road). We had $30 total in cash. That's it. We went up to the board and started looking at the late ball games. San Diego was playing, so were the Giants, and there was a game at California. I forgot exactly why we liked the Angels that night, but we were going to bet half of our bankroll on the California Angels who were playing against the Texas Rangers. My friend and I were talking about the game, debating about how much to play and making sure the Angels were really the best bet. And that's when we met the man in the polyester shorts.

Imagine -- a guy who hadn't shaven in a couple of days. Lamb chop, ham hock sideburns. He had one sock down on his ankle, and the other sock was up to his knee (I think it was an athletic sock, but don't hold me to that). He had on one of those pair of softball pants that jocks used to wear back about 20 years ago. Ugly as sin. 100 percent polyester. Trouble was -- this guy was nearing 60 and must have had like a 46 waist. I can't remember if he was wearing a white belt or not, but would anyone be surprised? Closest example I can give you is -- he looked like "Paulie" in the Rocky movies (Burt Young, I think is the actor's name).

So here we are, standing at the Bally's sportsbook at like 7:25 on a Tuesday night getting ready to make one of the most important bets of our lives. We are talking EAT versus DON'T EAT money. Mr. Polyester Pants overhears the conversation and is seemed offended that we are actually contemplating a bet on the Angles. The man interrupts the conversation and then goes on to explain that the Rangers are THE PLAY in this game and that if we want the Angles, he'll book our action right there and we'll just sit there together and watch the game. Why let the sportsbook take a cut? He sure sounded sure of himself.

My friend and I looked at each other like a couple of deer caught in the headlights of a Mack truck. "Well, he lives in Vegas, so he must know what he's talking about, right?"
 

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I don't recall how the conversation went exactly, but we figured anybody who hung out thousands of hours in the local sportsbooks must have picked up SOMETHING along the way. Right? Maybe this was wiseguy action and we were finally getting the break we had been looking for. Besides, the guy in polyester sounded SO CERTAIN!

"Give me $30 on team 162 -- the Rangers to win back $34."

The man in the polyester pants smiled as if had given us a gift.

The next couple of hours are but a blur, but I do remember the game going into extra innings. The games in San Diego and San Francisco had finished long ago, and ours was the only game still in action. In fact, we were the only three people still sitting in the sportsbook late at night. Cocktail service discontinued, and a few immigrants were pushing around vacuum cleaners.

For some reason, the game was not on the TV screen. So, we were forced to watch the ticker for the entire game. Have any of you ever done that? Let me tell you -- after about four hours, your eyes glaze over. It's like counting light bulbs on a Christmas tree. Bottom of the 11th?..still tied 3-3. Top of the 12th, Rangers retired. Bottom of the 12th, Angels go down in order.

It was freakin' torture.

By this time Mr. Polyester Pants had fallen asleep. Snooring like an ox and dreaming like a baby. I guess he finally lost interest in the game, or perhaps never even bet it. I have no idea. Maybe he was just touting us hoping to get a cut of our win. Who knows?

The 13th inning came up, and both sides were quietly retired. By this time, my friend was asleep. It was a pretty sad sight. All my money riding on a game and a side that I didn't even like, and here I am the only one still awake to watch the action.

The Rangers went down in the top of the 14th, and the Angels came to bat. A few minutes later, the ticker brought the bad news I hope would not come. California homered and won the game 4-3. My ticket was torched.

And that's when the most incredible thing of all happened. As my friend and I gathered ourselves and finished our slew of curses, and just as were ready to leave the book, Mr. Polyester Pants made a shocking request.

"Do you guys have a car, 'cause like I need a ride home. Can you 's guys give me a lift?"

Huh?

Run that by me again?

I just stood there. After I stammered for a moment and regained my ability to speak, I realized I'd done just about the dumbest thing anyone could ever do. I got talked out of a winning play, listening to a square who doesn't know his head from his ass, and now I found out the guy doesn't even own a car?

I was the fool. Man 'o man, was I a fool.

So, that's the story behind the guy in the polyester pants. 16 years ago, he made quite an impression on me. Who knows, he's still probably wondering around the Las Vegas sportsbooks, looking for a stake. There are hundreds out there just like him. Watch out. The lesson to the story? Find out who he likes -- and BET THE OTHER SIDE!

Tomorrow: More about the Goldman Experiment
 

yyz

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Everyone wears polyester!

Who can honestly say the cap the snot out of every game they bet on? There are times when you just look at the line and bet. (I'm not saying a lot of the time, but sometimes, for sure.)

Piss poor money mangement is what makes you wear polyester, in my book.

Nice read, all the same.:)
 

acehistr8

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Nolan, how did your first experiment finish up? I seem to remember picking against him was not going well last time I read it?

yyz hit the nail on the head. This game starts and ends with money management. Anything we do in between is gravy. Anyway, as I go back and start rereading all the books and articles in my library for the upcoming season, I came up with an idea.

This derives from Nolan's experiment, only mine will be called the Fiona Experiment.

Combing through various books, magazines and articles, one thing is apparent. Handicapping will only get you so far. It might get you over that hump, but one bad bounce, one UVA fumble at the goal line, can make things go awry. Does your excellent handicapping make you feel better in that one bounce ended up in a losing day rather than a winning day? Is Mr. Polyester just unlucky, or is he really terrible?

Can complete and random picking of the games be any more or less accurate than a true dedicated handicapper over the course of a season? On the Tony Kornheiser show, a monkey (an actual live one) picked more winners than anyone in their NCAA pool. Personally, I dont think so. But lets find out.

As such, my cat Fiona will be making 5 picks a week this NFL season. She is a fiesty two year old Maine Coon, I have no doubt she will be up to the task. She can leap sectional sofas in a single bound, play with three toy mice at once, and seems to find me in the middle of the night in pure darkness. Shes no superhero, but shes probably not a bad picker of games.

BTW - this is being done for entertainment purposes only and in no way is meant to demean the hard work that we all do. It simply aims to highlight that perhaps good old fashioned luck plays a significant role in our picks.
 
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4bubba

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Good story Jack, and true. Of course you could change polyester with a 3 year old superbowl shirt or an old Lakers hat, but it doesnt matter.

Living in Vegas, I see it all the time.
***********
BTW, another thing to look for from even good handicappers to bet against, is after winning their bet (i.e. football) and drinking heavily, they stumble up to the window and cash the ticket. Then they stare at the board and decide to bet either a game they know nothing about, or worse, bet a basketball game or hockey game. They probably will also put them in a parley to win more. this bettor has absolutely NO CHANCE of winning. I know, I have done that myself.

Another great place to find people to bet against is the sportbook bars. You will always hear some self-proclaimed expert with a stack of parley cards, 3 football sheets, and a sports section from the paper. His main info is from the sports writers of the local paper. (Always look for the parley cards, thats a give away).

********

My favorite movie on the subject is "Let it ride" with Richard Dreyfus. Is about horses, but it pertains to all sports betting.
Fot those who may have forgotten, he goes the whole day without capping any horses. he wins by races that he hears are fixed and betting against everyone else. The best race was when he asked all the people he knew at the track who they liked, and bet the one horse no one wanted. Of course, that's the horse that won.
 

theGibber1

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the public is wrong most of the time (not only about sports, but just about everything


the reason the THE GOLDMAN EXPERIMENT works is simple,


most of the public is wrong b/c most of the public picks favs 80-90% of the time..

cappers of experiance know that the money is in the doggies!


ruff ruff!!


:D
 

Nolan Dalla

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***My replies will follow:

Nolan, how did your first experiment finish up? I seem to remember picking against him was not going well last time I read it?

***It ended at about .500, but then I only played it for a month or so. The problem was -- I did not have an accurate qualifier to pick the plays. I glanced at the board myself and made WHAT I THOUGHT was the most obvious play. The Goldman System is MUCH better, as you will see. The entire write-up, with explanations and percentages will be posted to the daily report tomorrow.


As such, my cat Fiona will be making 5 picks a week this NFL season. She is a fiesty two year old Maine Coon, I have no doubt she will be up to the task. She can leap sectional sofas in a single bound, play with three toy mice at once, and seems to find me in the middle of the night in pure darkness. Shes no superhero, but shes probably not a bad picker of games.

***I like the novelty of the idea, but it's essentially a coin flip. Fiona should be able to hit ~50 percent.
 

WHY ASK WHY?

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Am going to paper train my pup....

1. get a line sheet.....
2. Enlarge it...
3 then go aginst what he blots out?
4. bet the over on the one he wets?

If he does like the last one... should be some long streaks(runs)?

WHY?
 

ChuckyTheGoat

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I don't want this to sound critical, but rather I'd like to educate myself. I don't understand a few of these comments. Specifically, I'm talking about:

"Piss poor money mangement is what makes you wear polyester, in my book. "

"This game starts and ends with money management. Anything we do in between is gravy. "

I never quite understand what blanket statements like that mean. Obviously, huge betting swings and 10:1 betting ratios (max/min) are dangerous. But from my perspective, long-run win% is the important stat. Someone really has to register 55%+ to accumulate significant winnings. I've seen the "good money management" comment before. Somehow, I can't fathom how 50% translates into profits long-run.

Any replies would be appreciated. Again, I'm just trying to educate myself.

Thx and GL.
 

acehistr8

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What I mean by it is exactly what you eluded to.

I somewhat touched on this in an article I posted on my page, which is when determining if people are profitable handicappers, is it worth it to identify people with high winning %, or is that information completely useless if we dont know what they are winning? My opinion is that the winning percentage of a handicapper is usless in determining if they are a personally a winning handicapper. Now someone with good money management skills could put that information to better use, but just knowing someones win rate in NO WAY can tell you if they are a profitable gambler.

Lets take an extreme case of a guy who wins 4 out of every 5 games he bets. He bets $100 per game for the first four games, which he wins, then on the 5th game he figures he is so hot, he bets $600. So while he is an 80% winner, he is a losing gambler. He could claim he is a great handicapper, but he could be broke. In my opinion this happens quite frequently. And truthfully not many people really care about this, they will see a guy who claims or who hits xx% and will follow his picks.

To me, I would also want to find someone who exudes good money management techniques. Hey like I said, its a real personal preference. It is a real hard thing to do, money management. It is hard to stick to a set % of your bankroll play. It is hard not to double or triple down when you are losing to try and catch up. It is hard not to chase loses at halftime. It is hard not to get a big head when you are on a roll and jack your bets up. Not many people can increase their bets significantly and immediately cut them back when they start losing.

Sure, you could have great money management skills, but if you cant pick games to save your ass, you are finished as a handicapper. But the reverse is just as true, and perhaps even moreso. Thats why I really do feel, without the ability to be a good money/bankroll manager, most people will be losing handicappers in the long run, regardless of their skill in picking games.
 
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ChuckyTheGoat

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Thx for the reply, acehistr8.

Guess I just think that anybody who hits 55%+ should be able to accumulate profits over time. As long as they aren't employing insane betting techniques. Close to flat betting is best, at least for me.

GL.
 

tennessee tout

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Great write up Nolan and I couldn't agree with you more. That's the reason there are so many bookies(illegal) in this country. There are a bunch of polyester suckers out there giving there money away.

I've got a friend who will cap the games and, of course, its mostly favorites. He will tell me the list and usually I bet against most if not all picks. This is better than any system or way of handicapping I'm yet to find.

Keep those stories coming and good luck.

The tout
 

spanky2

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SOOOOOOO TRUE >>>> I used to pay a guy $20 when a friend of ours was taking another pals action. When 'the Sap' LOVED Team 'a', I would bet a 'decent' amout on Team 'b'.. It was one of the best systems I have ever used.. So much of the story is SOOOO true,Public LOVE to bet "Chalk"..We used to call it "the MUSH FACTOR",I still employ it at the Casino at the crap table- you know the kind of guy that picks up the dice,and he has NO HOPE of making a "Pass" even if he was cheating.. I have to make a decent play on the 'Don't Pass Line"... Just love the 'system',I really have made some good coin using it..
Thanks for the post,hits the nail right on the freeking head.. These 'saps' would'nt know what Money Management is if you spent an hour one on one trying to explain it to them....
Anybody ready for some football????
Spanky....:D
 

FED

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dont know what you are looking at, my books are taking major action on the pack, not me taking the orange heads for a close game, dont want to get burned by 1.5 or .5 pts, had enough of the hook, thats all it is, why would the line be at 4.5?
 

Juggler

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Guys,

My dog already outpicked me in football last year. Now he is a tout & demands large bones for his selections!
 
S

S-Love

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me and a buddy had a similar plan a few years ago, except we had a 'triumverate' of three of the worst bettors imaginable. Needless to say, when these three all liked the same side, you know what it meant...I'll never forget New Year's bowls about 3 years back- we cleaned up and on the luckiest wins possible...covering by half-points, blocked extra-points, etc (for some reason the Florida-Mich St game stands out)


there is merit to this system, and there are large samplings out there of where you can find who the 'losers' are on
 

yyz

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So what happens when two polyester dudes like opposite sides? Does the universe implode?:eek:

Goat-boy,

You asked about money management. Here is a slight example, but there are plenty of books writen on the subject, I am sure.

Take a gambler who wagers the same thing when he wins. Let's make it 110/100

He wins 5 in a row. He is up $500 Now, you might ask the guy why he never raised the stake, and he says, "I don't want to lose more, when that loss finally comes."

Now, the guy loses his 6th wager for -110......loses the next at -110. Now, he is pissed, and says, "I can't keep losing. I have to win sooner or later!" So, he bets 275/250 so he can show a small profit over the three game span.

This one goes belly up, also. Now, he is stuck -$495 on three wagers.

This clod has a 5-3 record, and a 62% win clip, and he is up $5

Now, let's back track a bit. Our hero made the following two statements:

"I don't want to lose more, when that loss finally comes."
"I can't keep losing. I have to win sooner or later!"


These statements resulted in piss poor MM!

As sure as a win streak keeps winning, a losing streak keeps losing! That's why they are called STREAKS! How many guys chase for that win, after getting beat game in, and game out? I know that I used to!

I'm sure you can see the picture I am drawing here, so I'll stop.
 
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ChuckyTheGoat

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yyz, thx for the example.

I guess I just give people enough credit to handle their $ in a smarter manner.

Like I said, close to flat betting. Re-adjust your bet size, based on current bankroll size. Then let your win% take over.
 

KotysDad

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question for nolan

question for nolan

Nolan,

A couple of comments/questions about your first experiment. I semi-followed it when you were doing it. It seems that to do that kind of experiment correctly, you would (at the least) need 3 pieces of information:

1. What % of bettors and how much money is coming from the "squares".

2. What % of bettors and how much money is coming from the "sharpies".

3. What % of bettors and how much money is coming from the guy who is happy flipping a coin for a wager just to watch a game.

Then it seems you need to track the lines and see where these pools of money is going. If you do this, then it seems you would have a better chance of taking advantage of Mr Polyester. Unless I misunderstood an underlying assumption in your original experiment, just picking up the paper and going against the most obvious pick without taking into any consideration at least the 3 points above should give you exactly what you got - about 50% winners. Do you agree??

Also, maybe your next experiment takes these factors into account. If not, then I am curious to hear your opinions on this.
 
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