The Hidden Health Tax

Chadman

Realist
Forum Member
Apr 2, 2000
7,501
42
48
SW Missouri
Study says uninsured are costly for all
Posted 5/28/2009 4:47 AM ET
By Erica Werner, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON ? The average family with health insurance shells out an extra $1,000 a year in premiums to pay for health care for the uninsured, a new report finds.
And the average individual with private coverage pays an extra $370 a year because of the cost-shifting, which happens when someone without medical insurance gets care at an emergency room or elsewhere and then doesn't pay.

The report was being released Thursday by advocacy group Families USA, which said the findings -- which it calls a "hidden tax" -- support its goal of extending coverage to all the 50 million Americans who are now uninsured. Congress and the Obama administration are working on a plan to do that.

Families USA contracted with independent actuarial consulting firm Milliman Inc. to analyze federal data to produce the findings.

"As more people join the ranks of the uninsured, the hidden health tax is growing," said Ron Pollack, Families USA executive director. "That tax hits America's businesses and insured families hard in the pocketbook, and they therefore have a clear financial stake in expanding health care coverage."

The report found that, in 2008, uninsured people received $116 billion in health care from hospitals, doctors and other providers. The uninsured paid 37 percent of that amount out of their own pockets, and government programs and charities covered another 26 percent.

That left about $43 billion unpaid, and that sum made its way into premiums charged by private insurance companies to businesses and individuals, the report said.

The major government insurance programs -- Medicare for the elderly and Medicaid for the poor -- are structured in a way that doesn't easily allow payments to insurers to adjust upward. And somebody has to pay.

Ronald A. Williams, chairman and chief executive of Aetna Inc., gave the example of a local community hospital that provides care to someone without insurance who arrives at the emergency room. When it's not paid for, the hospital has to raise its rates to insurance companies, and they pass that on in higher premiums, Williams said.

"Our members then say, 'Well, why is health insurance so expensive?'" Williams said in an interview. "And the answer is because you're paying for your own care as well as for the care of some of the uninsured in the community."

Aetna was not involved in writing or funding the report but Williams planned to appear at a news conference Thursday with Families USA officials to release its findings.
 

StevieD

Registered User
Forum Member
Jun 18, 2002
9,509
44
48
72
Boston
It seems like Socialism to me, only more expensive.
Obama has to do something about Health Insurance and Health Care in this country. This should be number one on his plate.
 

The Sponge

Registered User
Forum Member
Aug 24, 2006
17,263
97
0
i got another bill for 500. Puts my two hour stay close to the 11 thousand dollar mark and all i left with was a perscription a pat on the back and told i was on my own. If only perscription medicine was legal i could have gotten the pain pills and rode this thing out. 11 grand for less then two hours :mj07: :mj07: :142smilie
 

smurphy

cartographer
Channel Member
Jul 31, 2004
19,910
135
63
16
L.A.
As someone who doesn't have health insurance, I see absolutely no reason to go out and get some. I cannot trust a system that is out to profit from me.

Police, fire, schools - all public. Why not basic health services too? It only seems logical.

The only thing worse than not having health insurance is having it and trying to get them to cover you when things go bad.
 

Cie

Registered
Forum Member
Apr 30, 2003
22,391
253
0
New Orleans
It takes a lot to get out of the mess Bush built.

broken_record.jpg
 

DOGS THAT BARK

Registered User
Forum Member
Jul 13, 1999
19,480
157
63
Bowling Green Ky
It takes a lot to get out of the mess Bush built.

Stevie if you get of Kos and moveon and read somes news--maybe Cspan for non biased approach--

you'll find in Obies 1st 100 days HE increased federal deficit (9 trillion over next 10 years --(quadruple deficit) with the bills He and congress dem wrote.HE loaded up the welfare plans. HE's getting ready for largest tax increase in history to try and curtail his unprecendent spending debt.

--NOT BUSH

now if you sipped on the Era of Responsibity rhetoric --I assume you bit on -not raising your taxes.

Your getting ready to get a dose of reality-(change) and knowing your not a freeloader--you'll get the brunt of it with no benefits.

--and a note on the VAT tax--in will increase cost of everything--wonder if Gumby has thought about the increased cost of medical equipment/supplies in healthcare industry?

His cost saving measures are speculation at best--his VAT will be increased cost for certain.

Wish people would ask him a few of these questions--but when he's got his own personal white house utube crew he pretty well isolates himself on any questions except the ones he wants.

Transparency???? He's on TV more than any other pres--but when is last time you saw question/answer session from reporters following his tv/utube presentations.

----and won't go into his webs site 5 days look before signing bill promise --as his own people have fessed up it hasn't been done yet.
 

Cie

Registered
Forum Member
Apr 30, 2003
22,391
253
0
New Orleans
Study says uninsured are costly for all
Posted 5/28/2009 4:47 AM ET
By Erica Werner, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON ? The average family with health insurance shells out an extra $1,000 a year in premiums to pay for health care for the uninsured, a new report finds.
And the average individual with private coverage pays an extra $370 a year because of the cost-shifting, which happens when someone without medical insurance gets care at an emergency room or elsewhere and then doesn't pay.

The report was being released Thursday by advocacy group Families USA, which said the findings -- which it calls a "hidden tax" -- support its goal of extending coverage to all the 50 million Americans who are now uninsured. Congress and the Obama administration are working on a plan to do that.

Families USA contracted with independent actuarial consulting firm Milliman Inc. to analyze federal data to produce the findings.

"As more people join the ranks of the uninsured, the hidden health tax is growing," said Ron Pollack, Families USA executive director. "That tax hits America's businesses and insured families hard in the pocketbook, and they therefore have a clear financial stake in expanding health care coverage."

The report found that, in 2008, uninsured people received $116 billion in health care from hospitals, doctors and other providers. The uninsured paid 37 percent of that amount out of their own pockets, and government programs and charities covered another 26 percent.

That left about $43 billion unpaid, and that sum made its way into premiums charged by private insurance companies to businesses and individuals, the report said.

The major government insurance programs -- Medicare for the elderly and Medicaid for the poor -- are structured in a way that doesn't easily allow payments to insurers to adjust upward. And somebody has to pay.

Ronald A. Williams, chairman and chief executive of Aetna Inc., gave the example of a local community hospital that provides care to someone without insurance who arrives at the emergency room. When it's not paid for, the hospital has to raise its rates to insurance companies, and they pass that on in higher premiums, Williams said.

"Our members then say, 'Well, why is health insurance so expensive?'" Williams said in an interview. "And the answer is because you're paying for your own care as well as for the care of some of the uninsured in the community."

Aetna was not involved in writing or funding the report but Williams planned to appear at a news conference Thursday with Families USA officials to release its findings.

Those with the determination to get ahead and provide an above average quality of life for their families will always 'subsidize' those who don't.

The overriding problem w/ this country in general is that most are looking for more in return than they contribute.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

Registered User
Forum Member
Jul 13, 1999
19,480
157
63
Bowling Green Ky
Might add a few other notes--if you want sure fire way to cut health insurance premiums with no additional cost to anyone--do away with litigation.

Unthinkable?? Military has done it since 1950


The Feres Doctrine, a 1950 Supreme Court ruling, forbids active-duty military personnel and their families from suing the federal government for injuries incidental to their service. In other words, unlike every other U.S. citizen, people in the military cannot sue the federal government for medical malpractice

---and adding a little to Cies comment on about the responsible having to subsidize others--

Isn't any secret who O has been looking out for and it hasn't been the productive--in fact he's even getting ready to rip off our military to support Da Base.

He's out to cut 2.3 million vets from healthcare--If they are not poor.


http://www.military.com/features/0,15240,182097,00.html
Vets Eyed For Health Cost Cuts
Tom Philpott | December 31, 2008
<!--- End Article Title/Source/Date ---><!--- Start Article Content --->CBO Eyes Military Retirees, Vets for Health Cost Cuts
A new report from the Congressional Budget Office shows why some military retirees and veterans could face higher out-of-pocket costs if the Obama administration and Congress take bold moves to reform the U.S. health system and to make federal health programs more efficient.
Among 115 "options" presented, though not endorsed, in the CBO report, several focus on raising TRICARE out-of-pocket costs for retirees and one for families. Others would tighten access to VA hospitals and clinics, or raise VA health fees, for veterans with no service-connected conditions.
Working-age military retirees will find here some of those familiar cost-saving ideas endorsed by the Bush administration to raise TRICARE fees, co-payments and deductibles for retirees under age 62 and their spouses.
How do you feel about these recommendations? Let your public officials know how you feel!
But other options are new and, if enacted into law, would raise health costs for Medicare-eligible military retirees and for active duty families. One option suggests having the VA health system disenroll millions of current users who have no service-related injuries or ailments.
Every two years CBO presents daring options for Congress and the executive branch to weigh in trying to control federal spending. The new report, "Budget Options, Volume 1: Health Care," is unusual in that it focuses entirely health care, an Obama policy priority, and its arrival is unscheduled.
It's also significant that the CBO director who led this work was Peter R. Orszag, President-elect Obama's nominee to be his director of the Office of Management and Budget. OMB is responsible for assembling the president's annual budget request to Congress. How bold will his economic team be?
"We are going to go through our federal budget, as I promised during the campaign, page by page, line by line, eliminating those programs we don't need and insisting that those that we do need operate in a sensible, cost-effective way," Obama said in November as he announced Orszag's nomination to join his cabinet .
"We're also going to focus on one of the biggest, long-run challenges that our budget faces, namely the rising cost of health care in both the public and private sectors," Obama continued. "This is not just a challenge but also an opportunity to improve the health care that Americans rely on, and to bring down the costs that taxpayers, businesses and families have to pay. That is what [OMB] will do in my administration."
Obama added, "Peter doesn't need a map to tell him where the bodies are buried in the federal budget. He knows what works and what doesn't, what's worth our precious tax dollars and what is not."
Indeed, in the CBO report's preface, Orszag gets "special thanks" for having "conceived" the report and being "instrumental in its development."
Many of its options deal with adjustments to Medicare, Medicaid, private health insurance rules and the Federal Employees Health Benefit Plan for federal civilians. Most ideas are aimed at cutting costs but some would enhance benefits. The 226-page report can be read online.
Here are some options that would touch military people and veterans:
TRICARE for Working-Age Retirees ? Fees, co-payments and deductibles would be raised for retirees under 62 to restore the relative costs paid when TRICARE began in 1995. TRICARE Prime enrollment would be raised to $550 a year for individuals from $230. Retiree families would pay $1100 versus $460 today. Co-pays for doctor visits would climb to $28 from $12 and users of TRICARE Standard and TRICARE Extra would pay an annual deductible of $350 for an individual and $700 for families. Congress has declined to support such increases for the past three years.
Fees for Active Duty Families ? Dependents of active duty members enrolled in TRICARE Prime, the managed care network, would pay new fees equal to 10 percent of the cost of health services obtained either in military treatment facilities or through civilian network providers. Total out of pocket costs would be capped, however.
To help offset these costs, dependents would receive a $500 non-taxable allowance annually. Those who elect to use alternative health insurance, rather than TRICARE, could apply the $500 toward their health insurance premiums, co-payments or deductibles.
CBO estimates these fees would save $7 billion over 10 years and encourage Prime enrollees to "use medical services prudently." It also would entice more spouses to enroll in employer-provided health plans instead of TRICARE. The downside, CBO said, would be financial difficulties for some Prime enrollees despite the cap on out-of-pocket costs. Also, CBO said, spouses induced to rely on employer health plans could see health coverage interrupted during military assignment relocations.
TRICARE-For-Life Fees ? The military's health insurance supplement to Medicare could see higher user costs. Under this option, beneficiaries would pay the first $525 of yearly medical costs plus one half of the next $4725 of costs charged to Medicare. So the extra out-of-pocket cost for TFL users would be up to $2887.50 a year. This amount would be indexed to rise with Medicare costs. The change would save $40 billion over 10 years. But CBO said it also could discourage some patients from seeking preventive care or proper management of chronic conditions. So it could negatively affect some patients' health.
Tighten VA Enrollment ? The VA healthcare system would be directed to disenroll 2.3 million Priority Groups 7 and 8 -- individuals who are not poor and have no service-related medical needs. Estimated savings would be $53 billion over 10 years but Medicare spending would rise by $26 billion in the same period as elderly among these vets shifted to Medicare.
CBO said 90 percent of these vets have other health care coverage. But this change could leave up to 10 percent unable to find affordable care.
 

MadJack

Administrator
Staff member
Forum Admin
Super Moderators
Channel Owner
Jul 13, 1999
105,173
1,595
113
70
home
As someone who doesn't have health insurance, I see absolutely no reason to go out and get some. I cannot trust a system that is out to profit from me.

Police, fire, schools - all public. Why not basic health services too? It only seems logical.

The only thing worse than not having health insurance is having it and trying to get them to cover you when things go bad.

hopefully you won't get the $11K kidney stone that sponge got :shrug:

i wish i never paid the hundreds of thousands i paid in over the years but i'm sure as soon as i let it go i'll have a heart attack and they will take my house to cover the charges.

it's fucked up
 

The Sponge

Registered User
Forum Member
Aug 24, 2006
17,263
97
0
hopefully you won't get the $11K kidney stone that sponge got :shrug:

i wish i never paid the hundreds of thousands i paid in over the years but i'm sure as soon as i let it go i'll have a heart attack and they will take my house to cover the charges.

it's fucked up

Kinda sad i threw it out. More expensive then a 5 carrot diamond
 

gardenweasel

el guapo
Forum Member
Jan 10, 2002
40,575
226
63
"the bunker"
As someone who doesn't have health insurance, I see absolutely no reason to go out and get some. I cannot trust a system that is out to profit from me.

Police, fire, schools - all public. Why not basic health services too? It only seems logical.

The only thing worse than not having health insurance is having it and trying to get them to cover you when things go bad.

why don`t you have healthcare?...you don`t have a car..you don`t have a family to support...

what you`re saying is that you`re irresponsible and that you`d like someone else to foot the bill...

disappointing...
 

MadJack

Administrator
Staff member
Forum Admin
Super Moderators
Channel Owner
Jul 13, 1999
105,173
1,595
113
70
home
why don`t you have healthcare?...you don`t have a car..you don`t have a family to support...

what you`re saying is that you`re irresponsible and that you`d like someone else to foot the bill...

disappointing...

he has a car :shrug:

he's a healthy, young single guy. shame, shame, shame :shrug:
 

gardenweasel

el guapo
Forum Member
Jan 10, 2002
40,575
226
63
"the bunker"
jackson...we get a universal style healthcare and you damn sight better stay healthy, partner.....

cause you`ll be waiting a very long time for tests,much less procedures....along with illegal aliens,drug adicts,and other people that live on the dole....

and your mother?....god bless her...cause she`ll need it...the elderly will get short shrift when government bureaucrats dedcide whether it`s cost efficient for them to get care that they get now as a matter of course...

your hard work won`t be worth the dog shit you wipe off your shoes...
 
Last edited:

gardenweasel

el guapo
Forum Member
Jan 10, 2002
40,575
226
63
"the bunker"
he has a car :shrug:

he's a healthy, young single guy. shame, shame, shame :shrug:

unless he makes 18 grand a year,he has no excuse to not have healthcare...

TOTALLY irresponsible...

btw...i like smurph,even though we disagree on everything...

i feel bad that he`s making a bad choice in a very serious matter...
 
Last edited:

smurphy

cartographer
Channel Member
Jul 31, 2004
19,910
135
63
16
L.A.
why don`t you have healthcare?...you don`t have a car..you don`t have a family to support...

what you`re saying is that you`re irresponsible and that you`d like someone else to foot the bill...

disappointing...

I would like us all to foot the bill. Same with fire, police, and schools. ;)

I do not believe health care should be a 'for profit' industry. I think it goes against humane way of thinking.

And fuck you anyway. Nobody has ever supported me for anything. If I come down with some horrible ailment, I'll pay cash - either here or in another country if it's cheaper.
 

smurphy

cartographer
Channel Member
Jul 31, 2004
19,910
135
63
16
L.A.
unless he makes 18 grand a year,he has no excuse to not have healthcare...

TOTALLY irresponsible...

btw...i like smurph,even though we disagree on everything...

i feel bad that he`s making a bad choice in a very serious matter...

I know people who have healthcare and have gotten burned....badly. This notion that paying into a bad system is the "responsible" way to go is clearly up for debate.

and again...fuck you, you judgemental dork.:)
 
Bet on MyBookie
Top