things just keep going down the tubes.

MadJack

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Global markets plunge on U.S. recession fears

Doubts grow over the White House's plan to shore up the U.S. economy. Wall Street primed for miserable Tuesday open.

President Bush's stimulus plan fell short of Wall Street's expectations. Now it's up to the Fed.
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Markets around the world declined Monday as investors expressed their concerns about the U.S. economy.

LONDON (AP) -- Stocks fell sharply worldwide Monday following declines on Wall Street last week amid investor pessimism over the U.S. government's stimulus plan to prevent a recession.

U.S. markets were closed for Martin Luther King Jr. Day, but were primed to open Tuesday's session with steep declines, according to futures trading.

Futures don't correlate exactly to the underlying indexes, but are nonetheless a good indicator of stock index direction. As of 11:30 a.m. ET, March contracts on the Dow Jones industrial average, the S&P 500 and the Nasdaq composite all pointed to declines of over 4 percent at Tuesday's open.

The downbeat mood from last week's U.S. market declines isn't limited to the United States, with markets in Europe, Asia and the Americas tumbling Monday.

Britain's benchmark FTSE-100 slumped 5.5 percent to 5,578.20, France's CAC-40 Index tumbled 6.8 percent to 4,744.15, and Germany's blue-chip DAX 30 plunged 7.2 percent to 6,790.19.

In Asia, India's benchmark stock index tumbled 7.4 percent, while Hong Kong's blue-chip Hang Seng index plummeted 5.5 percent to 23,818.86, its biggest percentage drop since the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks.

Canadian stocks fell as well, with the S&P/TSX composite index on the Toronto Stock Exchange down 4 percent in early afternoon trading. In Brazil, stocks plunged 6.9 percent on the main index of Sao Paulo's Bovespa exchange.


Investors dumped shares because they were skeptical that an economic stimulus plan President Bush announced Friday would shore up the economy that has been battered by problems in its housing and credit markets. The plan, which requires approval by Congress, calls for about $145 billion worth of tax relief to encourage consumer spending.

"We've taken our lead from the Asian markets who have not been impressed by the U.S. There's debate if there's going to be a recession in the U.S. I don't think there's much chance of that though," said Richard Hunter an analyst at Hargreaves Lansdown Stockbrokers Ltd. in London.

Concerns about the outlook for the U.S. economy, a major export market for Asian companies, has sent the region's markets sliding in 2008. Just last Wednesday, the Hang Seng index sank 5.4 percent.

"It's another horrible day," said Francis Lun, a general manager at Fulbright Securities in Hong Kong. "Today it's because of disappointment that the U.S. stimulus (package) is too little, too late and investors feel it won't help the economy recover."

Japan's benchmark Nikkei 225 index slid 3.9 percent to close at 13,325.94 points, its lowest close in more than two years. China's Shanghai Composite index plunged 5.1 percent, partly on worries about mainland Chinese banks' exposure to risky U.S. mortgage investments.

"People are certainly nervous about a potential recession in the U.S. spilling over to the rest of the world," said David Cohen, Director of Asian Economic Forecasting at Action Economics in Singapore.

"Maybe there's still some wariness about politicians are able to come up with a compromise and act sufficiently quickly" on a stimulus package, Cohen said. "I think the impact would be marginal anyway."

Investors took cues from the negative reaction to the president's plan on Wall Street on Friday, when the Dow Jones industrial average slid 0.5 percent to 12,099.30, bringing its loss for the year so far to nearly 9 percent.

Traders also have shrugged off assurances from Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke that the U.S. central bank is ready to act aggressively - which means a likely big interest rate cut later this month - to help the sagging economy.

Some analysts predict that Asia won't suffer dramatically from a U.S. recession because increased trade and investment within Asia has made the region less reliant on the United States than in the past. Excluding Japan, 43 percent of Asia's exports go to other nations in the region, Lehman Brothers calculates, up from 37 percent in 1995.

But on Monday, uncertainty and pessimism reigned.

In Tokyo trading, exporters got hit hard, partly because of the yen's recent strength against the dollar. Toyota Motor Corp (TM). lost 3.3 percent and Honda Motor Co (HMC). sank 3.4 percent.

Wall Street: Waiting for the pain to end
Shares of Bank of China dropped 6.4 percent in Hong Kong after the South China Morning Post newspaper reported that the bank is expected to announce a "significant write-down" in U.S. subprime mortgage securities, citing unidentified sources. In Shanghai, the bank's stock declined 4.1 percent.

India's benchmark Sensex index fell 1,353 points, or 7.4 percent - its second-biggest percentage drop ever - to 17,605.35 points. At one point, it was down nearly 11 percent.

The decline hit companies across the board, with power utility Reliance Energy (RELF.F) falling 16.4 percent. Major software company Tata Consultancy Services (TACSF) slid 7.6 percent

"A gloomy U.S. climate has affected the global markets. Even if those markets recover, it will take sometime for the recovery to reach India because today's fall has been so drastic," said Jayant Pai, of the Mumbai investment company IL&FS Ltd.

Still, Pai and others suggested that the declines could lead to a buying opportunity.

"The sell-off today takes us close to the bottom," she said.

Since the start of the year, Japan's Nikkei index has declined 13 percent, while Hong Kong's blue-chip index is down more than 14 percent. Even China's Shanghai index - which nearly doubled last year - has fallen 6.6 percent over the same period and nearly 20 percent from its all-time closing high on Oct. 16.
 

WhatsHisNuts

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You mean to tell me that spending billions and billions of money we never had on a BS war is hurting the economy? DTB, please spin this into a Bill Clinton problem.
 

Chadman

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But, as some would point out...business is GREAT in the black churches today, so we got THAT going for us...

By posting a story like this, you know that you are aiding the terrorists, Jack.
 

MadJack

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disgusting what's going on in this country. totally and absolutely disgusting.
 

smurphy

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It shouldn't be too surprising. We've been thinking short-term rewards the last 7 years. Just a matter of time before Bush's irresponsible economic policies caught up to us.

What really sucks is that we are going into this recession with record debt and deficits as well as an incredibly deflated dollar. It could be a very tough stretch.

What happened in the global markets today is very ominous. ...We might want to think about making MLK holiday 2 days this year....or maybe even the whole week.
 

MadJack

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gonna be a bad year.

on the bright side, there will be some nice discount buying opportunities. thing is, i don't know that much about the stock matket but gonna have to hook up with someone who does or take a crash course :SIB
 

smurphy

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Jack, you might want to make some friends in the Movers and Shakers forum. They will probably get you up to speed. My attempts at trading have not gone very well.
 

djv

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MJ there is help in your corner of the world mover's and shaker's. Also if you have time Cramer on CNBC is very good at explaining things on his show as is fast money same network. In fact Cramer's been on FED's case for some time. As he says they no nothing. And Bush's plan is weak. He always want to give money to those who won't spend it. Why? They don't need it. Or will take to long to get into things that help sooner not later.
 

MadJack

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Asian Markets Tumble on US Worries
Tuesday January 22, 5:57 am ET
By Yuri Kageyama, AP Business Writer
Asian Markets Extend Losses Amid Worries About Possible US Recession; Nikkei Tumbles 5.7 Pct


TOKYO (AP) -- Global stock markets extended their slide for a second day Tuesday, plunging amid fears that a possible U.S. recession will cause a worldwide economic slowdown.
The dramatic declines in Asia and Europe so far this week were expected to spread to Wall Street, where stock index futures were already down sharply hours before the trading day began.


Japan's Nikkei 225 index nose-dived 5.7 percent -- its biggest percentage drop in nearly 10 years -- to 12,573.05, a day after falling 3.9 percent. Australia's benchmark index sank 7.1 percent, the market's steepest one-day slide in nearly 20 years.

Hong Kong's Hang Seng index, which slumped 5.5 percent Monday, finished down 8.7 percent. In China, the Shanghai Composite index lost 7.2 percent to 4,559.75, its lowest close since August.


Indian Finance Minister P. Chidambaram urged investors to remain calm after trading in Mumbai was halted for an hour when the stock market there fell 10 percent within minutes of opening. The Sensex rebounded some later to finish down 4.6 percent.

"There is no reason at all to allow the worries of the Western world to overwhelm us," Chidambaram said.

European markets, which fell sharply Monday, were volatile Tuesday. By midmorning the U.K.'s FTSE 100 had slipped 1 percent, Germany's DAX dropped 2.9 percent, while France's CAC 40 declined 1.1 percent.

Investors have dumped shares in frenetic trading the last two days on worries that the U.S. economy, battered by a credit crisis and housing slump, will shrink in coming months, weakening demand for exports.

There is also skepticism that American authorities will be able to prevent a recession. The Federal Reserve has indicated it will lower interest rates further, and President Bush has proposed an economic stimulus package that includes $145 billion in tax cuts, but investors around the world are doubtful that the measures will lift the economy quickly.

"Unless we get some positive 'shock effects,' such as drastic measures from the U.S. government, there is almost no hope for a recovery in stocks," said Koji Takeuchi, senior economist at Mizuho Research Institute in Tokyo.

Oil and gold prices also fell. Light, sweet crude for February delivery fell to $87.72 a barrel on expectations that slower U.S. growth will lead to less demand for crude. Spot gold, which usually benefits from market uncertainty, fell to a two-week low of $855.20 per troy ounce.

U.S. markets were closed Monday for a holiday commemorating civil rights leader Martin Luther King Jr. But Wall Street future prices were down sharply, portending a plunge when trading begins at 9:30 a.m. Eastern time.

Dow Jones industrial average futures were down 523 points, or 4.3 percent, to 11,583, while Standard & Poor's 500 futures were down 64.4 points, or 4.8 percent, at 1,260.

Noritsugu Hirakawa, who monitors stock trading at Okasan Securities Co. in Tokyo, said investors were spooked by the drastic falls on Chinese and Indian markets -- the two emerging economies that are viewed as sustaining global growth even as the U.S. economy sputters.

"The end to the slides in Asian stocks is nowhere in sight," he said. "There is even speculation that China may be exposed to the U.S. subprime mortgage crisis."

Indonesia's benchmark index closed the day down 7.7 percent, Singapore's Straits Times index sank 6 percent and Taiwan's market fell 6.5 percent.

Asian markets have been in a downward spiral for most of January. Since the start of the year, Japan's Nikkei index has tumbled nearly 18 percent, while the Hang Seng is down a stunning 22 percent.

Even the usually upbeat Japanese Economy Minister Hiroko Ota acknowledged that threats were growing.

"We must take the approach of working together with other nations on this," she said on nationally televised news.

Associated Press writers Ramola Talwar Badam in Mumbai and Cassie Biggs in Hong Kong contributed to this report.
 

davidjg47

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It's not Bush's fault everything is going to hell in a basket. Banks got greedy on the house market and borrowed billions of dollars from China and other countries to save their ass and after they got the money had more losses come in. Merrill lynch invested heavily in the house market too and borrowed from the same countries...Greed is the problem not BUSH...
 
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DOGS THAT BARK

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It shouldn't be too surprising. We've been thinking short-term rewards the last 7 years. Just a matter of time before Bush's irresponsible economic policies caught up to us.

What really sucks is that we are going into this recession with record debt and deficits as well as an incredibly deflated dollar. It could be a very tough stretch.

What happened in the global markets today is very ominous. ...We might want to think about making MLK holiday 2 days this year....or maybe even the whole week.

Hmm sounds like political rather than economical statement-- 7 years is short term but 2 months long term ?? We've had 2 large sell offs prior--at end of Clintons term on Dot.Com bust--but you think that 7 years of prosperity followed by drop and recession in his final months were the best of times--maybe you could elaborate on that Smurph Was it Clintons fault--certainly not.
Next big drop was following 911--again special event triggered it.
You now have banking crisis--have seen some here blame it on economy--however with world stocks falling equally don't see how these "world economies" drop over night--would be more a world wide banking prob--than reflection on their econmies growth.

The thing is market has bounced back every time which I would assume will happen again.

If you exploit the booming markets and set stops losses according to keep from giving back profits --you should have locked in some nice gains--and be sitting back with little exposure and lots of cash-and lots of sales to exploit.
Downside people in 401ks can not set stops and at severe disadvantage--also if stops have been set on days like today--you will not get near your price as stock may have been set at say $40 and market opens at $38 your going to have larger loss than anticipated.
Traders who set stops were fortunte that during past week with daily drops most stocks should have been liquidated.

IMO the companies with no or little debt-strong free cash flow-low PE's will come out stronger and speculative companies will bite the bullet as in the dot.com bust--and added plus if you can locate co on above criteria that also pay around 5% div that will offset a lot of the temporary decline--just my 2 cents.
 

gardenweasel

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we could go to the gold standard like my buddy ron paul suggested...if we were on the gold standard this would nver have happened...

can't have a recession if the economy is completely in the tank to start with........:grins:
 

djv

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MJ you are correct market does end up, going up. The thing that has troubled many. There memory of just recovering from 2001/02. Witch in real terms we are 25% behind even with new highs that were hit in 07. So if we get good pattern here. Do hit bottom for 2nd time. We should be ok by end of year and back to normal by 09. And now there is fire sale on stocks and funds. Fed's big cut today is start. Now if they follow up another .50 very soon it will help. Now get a package from congrees to get some cash in hands of people who will go and spend it over next six months and that will help also. But for those with extra cash sitting on side line. Boy go shopping.
 

smurphy

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Hmm sounds like political rather than economical statement-- 7 years is short term but 2 months long term ?? We've had 2 large sell offs prior--at end of Clintons term on Dot.Com bust--but you think that 7 years of prosperity followed by drop and recession in his final months were the best of times--maybe you could elaborate on that Smurph Was it Clintons fault--certainly not.
Next big drop was following 911--again special event triggered it.
You now have banking crisis--have seen some here blame it on economy--however with world stocks falling equally don't see how these "world economies" drop over night--would be more a world wide banking prob--than reflection on their econmies growth.

The thing is market has bounced back every time which I would assume will happen again.

If you exploit the booming markets and set stops losses according to keep from giving back profits --you should have locked in some nice gains--and be sitting back with little exposure and lots of cash-and lots of sales to exploit.
Downside people in 401ks can not set stops and at severe disadvantage--also if stops have been set on days like today--you will not get near your price as stock may have been set at say $40 and market opens at $38 your going to have larger loss than anticipated.
Traders who set stops were fortunte that during past week with daily drops most stocks should have been liquidated.

IMO the companies with no or little debt-strong free cash flow-low PE's will come out stronger and speculative companies will bite the bullet as in the dot.com bust--and added plus if you can locate co on above criteria that also pay around 5% div that will offset a lot of the temporary decline--just my 2 cents.

Well this is the Politics forum, yes?:shrug:

I understand the economic cycles that occur. Problem here and difference from Clinton is that we are going into it with massive deficits and debt and a reeling dollar. I blame those on Bush's unsound budget policies and they will make this down cycle that much worse. The spending power of middle and lower income Americans is bad and looks to get much worse. There will be no ability to take advantage of the down market for most. But congratulations to you for being in a good spot to do so.
 

smurphy

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So you don't think we are in a global economy? Get out of your bunker and look around. And this "buying power" you speak of is taking a massive hit among average folks.
 

gardenweasel

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So you don't think we are in a global economy? Get out of your bunker and look around. And this "buying power" you speak of is taking a massive hit among average folks.

of course it`s a global economy....but the whole thing flounders if we go under,or even take a hit.......our economy is the straw that stirs the drink...don`t believe that?...

lets see if this is a correction,or a recession...if it`s a recession,watch what happens..


let me ask you this...does the world take a harder hit if,say, china`s economy flounders?....india`s?.or if our economy flounders?....

it`s a pretty easy question to answer...
 
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