This is genuinely shocking to me, how do you guys feel? On either side of Isle

[DOGS THAT BARK]

You could be correct and I am sure that is big issue. I did not base my assumption on any fact just personal convictions as I am Christain and have never felt that I should impose any my feelings on a person when they have to carry the child not me.I think the person involved has to deal with that.--but maybe I am a minority.

 

[DoMyDermBest]

the most intolerant group of all are liberals. Lets take your 75% Christian ethnic number as given. Why does the left brand all devout Christians as backward or intellectually lazy. Why are all hunters bubbas except JFK erry? Why is it wrong to believe that life begins at conception, and that it is fundamentally wrong to pop a third trimester fetus' head off, and drag it bleeding from the womb? I'll tell you why. Every damn liberal I know believes that they are the center of the universe, and accountability is the sole domain of the deep pocket, or the government. Lots of good people strongly disagree. They showed up on t
Tuesday. Many will even tell you that God intervened when he got the exit poling data!

 

[Penguinfan]

WHOA, before this turns into an abortion thread, my only point was the list of priorities to Christian voters is

1. Abortion

2. Everything else

and the majority never get past #1.

 

[Penguinfan]

And DTB, I can appreciate your view and in another thread at another time we can debate the abortion issue and the merits of being a Christian, I once was one, my point this time was related simply to the election since that was the topic at hand. Voting is actually an awsome responsibility, not to be taken lightly. I don't think people should vote just based on party lines (I didn't) or one issue, the President has alot of power/responsibility and the best man for the entire job MUST be elected, not simply the one who will let me keep my guns, and I did hear that ALOT on Tuesday as a reason to vote for Bush, is that really the most compelling issue in anyones mind, if it is then fine, you don't deserve to vote. I am not against gun ownership either, I am just saying there are more pressing issues and your choice should be made based on the more important things.

 

[gardenweasel]

there are many of us that lean strongly conservative that believe in a woman`s right to choose.....

and are for stem cell research....

that`s why i believe a third,more moderate party would clean up....

of course,there`s a political duopoly that will never be able to be broken......

are we really free?......not crazy about nader,but,the dems fighting to keep him off the ballot smacked of communism....

these are things that are disturbing...everyone preaches inclusion and tolerance until you diagree with them....

 

[shamrock]

dtb-I without question am a strong believer in God, just because I have become disenchanted with the religion of my ancestors does not name me as a non believer. To me there is no crimes lower than abusing and taking advantage of children. To turn your eyes and allow this to not only continue, but to in several cases actually assist and aid the criminal by moving him to different states and churches is paramount to the lowest of crimes.

I fully understand your point regarding Washington dc, and agree fully I would probably prefer individuals of your choice. But the Constitution doesn't refer to Division of Welfare and State, or division of poor and State, or Division of minorities and State. But distinctly does demand Division of church & State. The point I was making was these 5 million voters did not back Bush last election. Rove made a calculated planned agenda to recruit these people and had Bush cater to them to receive their vote, brilliant and it worked him, but is that not intertwined church and State rather blatantly??

I don't generally consider myself liberal, if you are pro choice in some instances you categorical have to support as someone above wrote "third trimester yanking abortion from whomb, because I certainly don't support that.

I would generally imagine any conservative that had problems for whatever reason conceive children would welcome IV FERTILIZATION, it is generally excepted by our society now as a wonderful means for those who couldn't have children to now be successful. Happens all over the county every day. Well it isn't 1 egg that is used, its several. Virtually every single couple has extra fertile eggs that are discarded, that is what is done with them, thrown in trash, is this not murder then?? Why wouldn't it make sense to use this 4 day old blastocyst with under 80 cells, no brain, no heart, no cns, to eradicate the world of many terrible afflictions.

Do my best-never in my life have I believe of popping bleeding head off 3 trimester fetus as you so eloquently wrote, but I do believe in stem cell research. My bet is that yourself or any other conservative that for whatever reason couldn't conceive, would be the first down in line at the fertility clinic. Some issues aren't that simple cut and dry.

 

[shamrock]

cut and dry.

 

[smurphy]

are we really free?......not crazy about nader,but,the dems fighting to keep him off the ballot smacked of communism....

You know VERY well that if the tables were reversed in 2000, and then Perot or whoever is the Right-leaning Indy was running again in 2004, that the Republicans would do the EXACT same thing. ...Only they would probably be able to get him off ALL the ballots.

 

[smurphy]

...and if that's Communism, what do you call no-bid government contracts to the company once run by the VP extracting oil from Iraq?


Sure doesn't sound like good old fashioned free enterprise to me.

 

[SixFive]

its undeniable morality had the biggest effect on this election. Bush s ability to drive nearly 5 million conservative Christians to the polls gave him this election. Does this concern anyone? Doesn't our constitution distinctly State Division between church & State?? With so many pressing issues should this be the overwhelming factor? And what kills me most is some that scream loudest about morals and behavior are sometimes the biggest offenders I e: (newt, Limbaugh, O'Reilly).
This just seems slightly skewed to me with so many problems in our country isn't it somewhat ridiculous Gay marriage is the pressing issue.

I know most Christians are good people, I was raised Catholic...
that and other little gems like church not recognizing divorces, unless you drop a couple hundred thousand like the Kennedy s them you can get a annulment. The church actually for a price has the arrogance to say that day never occurred. Quickly realized you can be religious without being church going.

isn't there the same knuckleheads that sent people like Jim and Tammy Baker there life savings??

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Thank you for posting this thread. Here's what I think. 1st paragraph, driving Christians to the poll so he could win. My argument would be these people are the "silent MAJORITY". This is how most people are. Maybe not in the big cities, but where I live, and smallville, USA all over the country. Gay marriage was not the pressing issue in this election, nor was abortion. Character was. Lying is wrong, and although people might rationalize it, a sin is a sin is a sin. John Kerry is a liar many times over. I've posted several times on here, I'm no fan of W. and some of his decisions, but I certainly could never vote for Kerry. The Democrats have to gravitate back to the center and get off that left edge. Bush won Ky. with 60% of the popular vote. Jim BUnning, rep senator, won with right at 51% of the popular vote with the same voters. Difference is, common people could identify with his democratic opponent unlike they could with Kerry.

2nd paragraph: Catholics are Christians, but that is a dying religion. I'm not catholic bashing, but it's the truth. Catholic churches aren't springing up and growing 50-100% each year. So many are disenfranchised with the Catholic church, and I don't blame anybody who is for many of the reasons listed in this thread. HOWEVER<<<<< Christianity today in the USA is not Catholicism and "the Church". The growing churches now are INDEPENDENT. There is absolutely no hierarchy, no decisions from higher up, just from God. This is the biggest flaw I see when people post about Christianity/church. If you are identifying Catholic=USA Chrisitianity, you are teetotally off base. Also, the folks that voted are also not the ones that sent Jim&Tammy money. That was mainly shut-ins. Chrisitans are givers and many tithe, but this money is given back to their local church, not to telemarketer evangelists. They are seen as more putrid than Michael Moore.

 

[gardenweasel]

smurphy...my comments were actually meant as an indictment of the 2 party system.....not meant to pick on the dems...it was the more recent, obvious example of hypocrisy.....

and as far as the old haliburton saw,from what i understand they were the only company able to logistically handle the enormous scope of the iraqi operation.....

as a liberal,i`m sure you woild want every company offered the opportunity to have a shot at procuring this enormous task......qualified or not...

whether they gouged the government is under investigation...that they were far and away the most experienced and qualified to handle the job is not an issue....

prosecute those that deserve it if necessary....the "no bid" crap is just that....crap....political guilt by association in an attempt to sully cheney....by morons like michael moore....

many partisans bought into this garbage....as we now know,the majority of the american people did not........

 

[smurphy]

a) if you can actually define what a Liberal is, then I'll know if I am one. Before Dubya graced the oval office, I was often accused of being a Republican.

b) Lots of stuff the American people haven't bought into yet - like it being a farce that Bush is tough on terrorists and that Iraq posed a threat worthy of war. Just because the American people haven't bought into things does not mean they aren't true.

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

Shamrock

"Rove made a calculated planned agenda to recruit these people and had Bush cater to them to receive their vote, brilliant and it worked him, but is that not intertwined church and State rather blatantly??

Where Rove had it over the dems was most of their campaigners were grass root volunteer door to door people where most dems were paid campaigners not nearly as effective. People are much more receptiveto people they know than strangers.

on the church and state---I think both sides worked that angle --most believed Bush to be sincere and I think most could see through media showing Kerry attending all black church twice every Sunday for month before election.They know he was prob never in one before nor will be again till next campaign. Its about who's sincere and who's campaigning.

 

[DoMyDermBest]

I believe in stem cell research, and personally have no problem with using fertilized eggs destined for destruction. This was a non issue to me as there are an unlimited # available. Just because the gov't grant system won't fund the research on more than the score or so that Bush allowed, doesn't mean private labs can't. There is lots of hope for this important tool. Unfortunately. the general public believes that this is a panacea will be a quick fix for everything, and might let us all live to see our 125th b'days. It won't be quick, it won't fix every condition, and it sure as hell won't be cheap. By the way - which was the administration that provided the funding for SSR? Yes it was the Bush Administration.

 

[gardenweasel]

i was not a proponent of the iraqi occupation.....even though i think there was rationale for what was done...and even though the administration botched laying out the case....

as far the american people "not buying into certain things"...you are probably right....of course,the result of them "not buying into" liberal democratic ideology just happens to result in the republicans having almost total control of all branches of government...

a small detail...

what are you gonna do with these yahoo,gun toting homophobes from middle america?.....

lol