Thug culture - Racism in America

[DOGS THAT BARK]

Where is Gabon? I think it would prove quite interesting on any research you could do on subject. I cetainly am no authority on matter and would find it interesting to learn.Have always wondered what area slaves came from--and why their own people sold them into slavery.
-- on retracting my statement--will most certainly if you can remotely prove that slavery is why most can't track their history--
Your 1st hurdle will be % that can track history (both sides of family) back to when they came over--then the probabilty that region they came from had written language or any way of recording.

I welcome any knowlegde that is supported by facts and not opinion--would appreciate it if you saved links to your reasearch.

this may save you some footwork--

The principal areas of the slave trade in Africa were Senegambia (present day Senegal, Gambia, Guinea and Guinea Bissau), Sierra Leone (including the area that later became Liberia), Windward Coast (modern Ivory Coast), Gold Coast (Ghana), Bight of Benin (Togo, Benin and western Nigeria), Bight of Biafra (Nigeria south of the Benue River, Cameroon and Equatorial Guinea), Central Africa (Gabon, Angola, Democratic Republic of the Congo) and Southeast Africa (Mozambique and Madagascar).

The number of slaves sold to the new world varied throughout the slave trade. The most widely accepted statistics [citation needed] claim Senegambia provided about 5.8%, Sierra Leone 3.4%, Windward Coast 12.1%, Gold Coast 14.4%, Bight of Benin 14.5%, Bight of Biafra 25%, Central Africa 23% and Southeast Africa 1.8%.

African slaves were usually sold to European traders by powerful coastal or interior states in exchange for European goods, such as textiles and firearms. Africans were rarely kidnapped by Europeans, except as the opportunity presented itself, because they did not know the lay of the land.

 

[smurphy]

I will look some things up. You asked where Gabon is - it's in that paragraph you pasted listing the Central Coast African countries.

I take issue with the term you and Freeze use about "their own people" selling them out. It was rival tribes and nations doing the conquering and selling. When the Scots took some Northern Irish into slavery sometime ago, it's not like they were thought of as "their own people" at the time. Skin color does not mean they are all the same. When Japan slaughtered 150,000 Chinese, it's not like they were doing that to "their own people." You both speak as if all of Africa is the same. One African nation is no more similar to another African nation than the Chinese are to the Japanese, etc. Remember, it's a massive continent, not just one big ghetto of New Orleans.

I already discovered something I never realized. There were actually far more Africans taken to South America than the US. Portugal alone brought nearly 10 times as many to Brazil during the same general time period. Apparently, the Spanish and Portuguese were worse as far as trying to preserve their lives overall as well. ....So, hey - at least we had that going for us.

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

We have common goals Smurph and that is the truth--I appreciate your research in matter as I am aware how time consuming it is--and I appreciate the fact that it is you taking up effort as I am quite confident you will do it thouroughly with no smoke and mirrors.
Hope you understand that my stance is not from derogitory (spl) race standpoint but takes issues with black leaders who continue to tell their people why they can't succeed. Most certainly the slave issue was hugely detrimental(and embarrissing time in our history) to advancement of colored people--but time to move on after 100 years and take advantage of opportunities now rather than dwell hinderences of the past.Until the youth look up to those who have prospered academically and in the world business-fianance ect--instead of athletes and rappers I don't see things changing--and that goes equally for all races.

---and the Japanese abusing the Chinese is another story in itself--makes most others look like Mary Poppins episodes.

 

[JCDunkDogs]

Hope you understand that my stance is not from derogitory (spl) race standpoint but takes issues with black leaders who continue to tell their people why they can't succeed.

I agree, DTB. And thanks for this thread. Its one of the more fascinating issues, especially for me because I lived in L.A. at a place not far from where the '92 riot started.

Regarding black genealogy: Please allow me a short digression. A black person today might be able to trace their lineage to a grandparent that was a freed slave. But 99% of the time, it is a dead end there, since most slaves took the last name of their master. The master's name could be searched in the U.S. Census, providing a location of his plantation, and the slave schedules could be searched for the names of the master's slaves. However, since only a slave's first name was recorded (generally), there's another dead end. Also, more importantly, since slave families were frequently broken up and sold, the job of tracing is almost impossible.

I ramble here about genealogy because even if a black person wanted to try to trace their heritage, they can't. A white person can. That has to rankle a black person. Your point, DTB, I think, is that even if they had not been enslaved, blacks could not trace their genealogy because they had no written language. This statement seems to rest on the supposition that a written language is required for genealogy. While I agree it makes it easier, it is not impossible to transmit a family history orally. Indeed, there have been such oral traditions in almost every human society, regardless of race.

And I agree, DTB, that it would be nice to put it all behind us ("to move on" as you put it), but that is hugely difficult under the circumstances. The absence of a genealogy undercuts an individual's sense of who and what he is. Combine that with the many subtle and not so subtle reminders of racism in our culture, and there is a sense that this will take time. Lots of it.

Its not our fault. We are caught within the game history has dealt us. We can just move on, and recognise the problem, avoid becoming a part of it, and promote the solution(s). That's why I agree with your statement quoted above.

 

[smurphy]

Wow, JC - I think you just captured my exact thoughts - but so much more concise and well-manored than my ramblings.

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

Was nice job JC-- I am still of opinion it would be tough to trace for numerous reasons--and a question from similiar thought. Maybe I am a Neandrathal (spl) but my Aunt sent me link several years ago tracing our family way back to Germany --and only interesting point I saw was great grand parents-grand parents and parents all celebrated 50 year wedding anniversaries---thought it a shame that would end in my generation but otherwise had no interest what so ever in family tree.

 

[steve2881]

you guys seem to be overcomplicating this issue. it seems to me that as long as prominent black leaders direct the black masses to buy into the montra that the white man is holding them down, the african american race will ALWAYS be at a disadvantage. i grew up with alot of black freinds, and there seems to be this attitude of not understanding consequences to actions. this is not just a black problem, i have white friends who act the same. i will be honest though, i know alot more blacks that act this way.

as long as there is a lack of responsibility, and an idea that your race determines your position in life, because of racism, you are stuck.

Bill Cosby articulates this issue very well, and he is shunned by black leaders. Then people like sharpton, and jessee jackson are embraced. it is almost as if certain blacks want someone to tell them someone else is to blame for the problems in their particular lives........

 

[steve2881]

I agree, DTB. And thanks for this thread. Its one of the more fascinating issues, especially for me because I lived in L.A. at a place not far from where the '92 riot started.

Regarding black genealogy: Please allow me a short digression. A black person today might be able to trace their lineage to a grandparent that was a freed slave. But 99% of the time, it is a dead end there, since most slaves took the last name of their master. The master's name could be searched in the U.S. Census, providing a location of his plantation, and the slave schedules could be searched for the names of the master's slaves. However, since only a slave's first name was recorded (generally), there's another dead end. Also, more importantly, since slave families were frequently broken up and sold, the job of tracing is almost impossible.

I ramble here about genealogy because even if a black person wanted to try to trace their heritage, they can't. A white person can. That has to rankle a black person. Your point, DTB, I think, is that even if they had not been enslaved, blacks could not trace their genealogy because they had no written language. This statement seems to rest on the supposition that a written language is required for genealogy. While I agree it makes it easier, it is not impossible to transmit a family history orally. Indeed, there have been such oral traditions in almost every human society, regardless of race.

And I agree, DTB, that it would be nice to put it all behind us ("to move on" as you put it), but that is hugely difficult under the circumstances. The absence of a genealogy undercuts an individual's sense of who and what he is. Combine that with the many subtle and not so subtle reminders of racism in our culture, and there is a sense that this will take time. Lots of it.

Its not our fault. We are caught within the game history has dealt us. We can just move on, and recognise the problem, avoid becoming a part of it, and promote the solution(s). That's why I agree with your statement quoted above.

jc, although articulate, i have no idea how you equate not being able to trace lineage to the problems that plauge blacks today. i may just be missing the point, but you somehow think that a young black mans lack of knowing his lineage leads to him knocking up his 14 year old girlfriend, and moving on??????

I am a white 25 year old, and I am not sure of my lineage past my grandfather. I bet most black can go back furher than that. In simplistic terms, my mother and father basically taught me one ideal to live by;
"its a competitive world. the world will not work to fit you. you must work to fit in this world"
i think that if individuals, black, white, green, yellow, and blue would understand the meaning of this and work to practice it, we would all be alot better off.

 

[smurphy]

JC was just expanding one of the several items I mentioned (which has become a debate since then) in which every other group of Americans has had an advantage over the years compared to blacks. If you read the whole thread, that point will make more sense.

To everyone sick of of the black leaders holding "their own people" back: Don't worry, that will subside over the years. I truly believe that where we are now is just a blip on a pretty big timeline. You guys act like this is how it's always been and this is how it will forever be.

Just show some patience. All you need is a fraction of the patience black Americans had for hundreds of years. Lots of bigger issues to worry about in the world, that's for sure.

 

[JCDunkDogs]

you somehow think that a young black mans lack of knowing his lineage leads to him knocking up his 14 year old girlfriend, and moving on??????

Ah, a nice example of the reductio ad absurdum. And a funny line, too. lol

But I see your point, steve. I was just saying that an individual can take pride in their heritage, but blacks have a harder time with it. I did not intend to imply any sort of direct correlation.

And I like those words to live by you quoted. They are a good example of how an individual needs to take personal responsibility for his or her actions. (Sort of the general theme of DTB's posts).