Top 10 reasons I don't believe the official 9/11 story

[Mr. Mel]

Please feel free to refute my post with valid discussion and or evidence, and WITHOUT bashing. Keep your cartoons to yourself you Jim Davis wannabes.

My mind is wide open and I would LOVE to be proven wrong! In no particular order....

1. Why wont the gov. release any films from the 77 pentagon cameras, or the citgo, VA. dept. of motor vehicles, or the Sheraton? What do they have to fear or hide if they are telling the truth? The supposed planes were seen at the WTC sites, so whats the difference? How could anything strike the most heavily fortified open structure in the world? You mean to tell me the most important building in the infrastructure of the United States defense and national security was a sitting duck this whole time?

2. How did Hani Hanjour fly a 767 when he couldn't fly a Cessna. How did he find his way back from the KY border. Why did the black box altimeter differ 200' from the official version, and how did he fly 5' off the ground without leaving any marks on the Pentagon lawn?

3. Why did DICK Cheney lie about coming into the white house bunker 40 minutes after Mineta testified DICK arrived?

4. Why didn't NORAD respond for 90 minutes, when they got intercept jets up in 15 or less minutes in all 67 occasions in the previous year?

5. Why did Ted Olson lie about the cell phone calls from his wife Babs? Why did Lisa Jefferson lie about her conversation with Todd Beamer, one which she changed her story within a week on Larry king, saying she knew about the WTC's when talking to Todd, but in talking to him she said she didn't know. Why didn't Lisa Jefferson record her call or tell anyone else there she was talking to a hostage aboard flight 93? CELL PHONE CALLS WERE IMPOSSIBLE AT THE TIME AT ANYTHING NEAR THEIR ALTITUDE.

6. Why did Bush keep reading pet the goat after hearing that WTC's tower 2 was struck, thus endangering 2nd graders lives.

7. Two terrorists passports (allegedly) tumbled free from the WTC's and at Shanksville, along with a red bandana at Shanksville. These items were found and turned over to authorities, appearing magically out of fireballs.:mj07:

8. How do fires burn twice as hot 90 days after they have started? Why is there thermite in the dust? Why wont FEMA test for these results. Why were crime scenes disturbed. In instances similar to this, people were arrested. How did several hundred pound steel girders get shot out of the WTC's and harpoon into buildings 500' feet away. Why did the EPA lie about the air quality and ship all the metal out of the country ASAP?

9. Why did none of the terrorists appear on any of the flight manifests until months, if not years, later? How could they board without tickets? How could they match their DNA if FBI chief Robert Mueller even admitted days later we might not have all their identities right. Why were at least 7 reported alive within a short time after 9/11, and why were many trained at U.S. MILITARY installations. How did they get in and out of the country with expired passports.

10. Why did we spend 81 million to investigate Bill Clinton getting a hummer, and 15 million to investigate the largest loss of life on American soil. Not to mention the Bush admin stonewalled investigators at EVERY turn and even getting the 15 mill was like pulling teeth 2 years later. Somehow WTC 7, the most suspicious collapse of all and the one Silverstein says was *pulled*, gets left out of the Keen Commish report:shrug: And Silverstein who had recently taken over the lease of the WTC site made MILLIONS by double duping insurance carriers. Why would he even take this lease anyway, the Towers had lost money for the Port Authority for years and needed Billions in upgrades for internet and to rid it of Asbestos.


???????

Again, if you're here to bash, bug off. I want some intelligent discussion if anyone's capable. :SIB Once we are finished debunking these 10, I may have a few more.

The significant problems we have cannot be solved at the same level of thinking with which we created them--Albert Einstein


:0corn

 

[gjn23]

"I want some intelligent discussion if anyone's capable. Once we are finished debunking these 10, I may have a few more. "

:mj07:

if this is you're point of view, you're never going to have "intelligent" discussion.

i'm still waiting for proof of nazi's killing jews, dinasours, man on the moon and the actual deaths of jfk, elvis, tupac and biggie.

 

[Mr. Mel]

"I want some intelligent discussion if anyone's capable. Once we are finished debunking these 10, I may have a few more. "

:mj07:

if this is you're point of view, you're never going to have "intelligent" discussion.

i'm still waiting for proof of nazi's killing jews, dinasours, man on the moon and the actual deaths of jfk, elvis, tupac and biggie.

Really? Well surely somebody has some obvious explanations for some of this stuff that I must be missing. :shrug:

If you're worried about those other things, I suggest you start your own thread.

Dig right in gjn23, I have always respected your thoughts...

 

[marine]

OK,
I'll bite.

I disagree with your statement. "Reasons" don't start with why.

Go back and fix yourself so that you can BEGIN an intelligent conversation.

 

[JCDunkDogs]

I'm open minded on the subject, and I don't want to sound jerky here, but your "questions" are all of the rhetorical variety, containing an assumed premise within the interrogatory. Maybe you could start with declarative statements, and citations to evidence, and we can go from there.

 

[Mr. Mel]

Ummmmm, ok. Can someone lead me in the right direction here and tell me how I should be phrasing the questions?

I think the reason nobody wants to tackle the questions is you would sound like a complete moron trying to justify some of this shit. To me, the pieces of the puzzle don't come close to matching.

But, I'm open to discuss so please tell me how I can better phrase things to begin.

Thanks

 

[JCDunkDogs]

Tell us what you know and how you know it. Then, maybe, I can get on board.

 

[Mr. Mel]

Tell us what you know and how you know it. Then, maybe, I can get on board.

LOL, ok.....

I KNOW we spent 15 million to investigate this tragic day, and 81 million on Clinton getting a BJ.

I KNOW WTC 7 was left out of the Keen Commish report.

I KNOW Silverstein made millions by double duping insurance carriers.

I KNOW the towers were huge money losers for years and drained the Port Authority, and that they needed BILLIONS in technology upgrades and Asbestos clearing.

I KNOW they won't release the tapes of what struck the Pentagon.

I KNOW they admitted to faking Babs Olsons cell phone calls from 30,000 feet.

I KNOW Hani Hanjour couldn't fly a Cessna, yet somehow took over a jet airliner and navigated his way perfectly and pulled off maneuvers experienced pilots have been unable to duplicate.

I KNOW the black box altimeter differed 200' from the official version.

I KNOW Bush stood in that classroom reading -Pet the Goat-, even after knowledge the 2nd plane had hit, thus breaking protocol and endangering the lives of 2nd graders.

I KNOW the Dick Cheney lied about when he entered the White House bunker.

I KNOW NORAD didn't respond for 90 minutes to scramble fighters when they were 67/67 in previous happenings that year.

I KNOW the fires burned twice as hot 90 days later as they did originally, and that they found thermite in the dust.

I KNOW the EPA lied about the quality of the air and endangered the lives of rescue workers.

I KNOW they scooped up the steel ASAP and shipped it off to China to be melted down ASAP so it could not be tested.

I KNOW several of the terrorists were not originally on flight manifests, had expired passports, and were trained at US Military installations.

That better?

:0corn :0corn :0corn :0corn :0corn

 

[JCDunkDogs]

Thanks. I guess I'll have to do my own research from here on. Where can I read up on this stuff and learn more?

 

[Mr. Mel]

Thanks. I guess I'll have to do my own research from here on. Where can I read up on this stuff and learn more?

The old thread that got locked is full of good info if you have a year or two:142smilie

http://www.madjacksports.com/forum/showthread.php?t=295205


Or here http://www.911docs.net/

 

[EXTRAPOLATER]

:nono:

You "know" too much.
You will have to be silenced.

 

[Mr. Mel]

:nono:

You "know" too much.
You will have to be silenced.

Riveting, thanks for your contribution.

 

[EXTRAPOLATER]

Admit it, "Mel."
You're not looking for opposing views.
At least, you won't "waste your time" looking into information that counters your beliefs.
It's out there, believe me.
A little ingenuity and you might even be able to find it yourself.
I hope you find what you're looking for.

 

[Mr. Mel]

Admit it, "Mel."
You're not looking for opposing views.
At least, you won't "waste your time" looking into information that counters your beliefs.
It's out there, believe me.
A little ingenuity and you might even be able to find it yourself.
I hope you find what you're looking for.

You were asked to offer intelligent conversation or data to counter the questions I posed. Apparently you aren't capable so scurry back to your circle jerk and the Ellsberg Paradox.

They really aren't questions though are they? Open your eyes. There is no "opposing view" to what I posted, IT'S WHAT HAPPENED! . Kinda scary, eh?:scared

Start listing all the things that don't add up and before you know it you have a huge sum.

 

[EXTRAPOLATER]

Picking one at random...

Hanjour had over 600 hours of flying experience under his belt. The biggest criticism against him was that his flying was "reckless." Gee, that doesn't really fit the profile of a suicidal hijacker, does it?

Most of your others are a waste of time.
Most say nothing about what really happened if they were true, though many just aren't.

I'm just trying to figure out people like you--those who so preciously hang on to their beliefs.
I certainly don't expect anything to change your mind.

 

[Roger Baltrey]

Mr. Mel,


I'll give one of your questions a try

Pentagon cameras may be deemed to sensitive to share. They need to plan for future attack and may just black all this out. Who are you hypothesizing in behind the conspiracy?

 

[Mr. Mel]

Picking one at random...

Hanjour had over 600 hours of flying experience under his belt. The biggest criticism against him was that his flying was "reckless." Gee, that doesn't really fit the profile of a suicidal hijacker, does it?

Most of your others are a waste of time.
Most say nothing about what really happened if they were true, though many just aren't.

I'm just trying to figure out people like you--those who so preciously hang on to their beliefs.
I certainly don't expect anything to change your mind.

At random?:mj07: You mean, let me cherry pick this one thing that I think I can challenge. Many aren't true eh? Feel free to take a shot and list what isn't big guy. YOU'RE the one preciously hanging on to a belief pal. The belief that WE aren't the true terrorists, and that your Gov't has done no wrong. Care to explain how it's possible to get pristine passports and DNA evidence from planes that disintegrate and turn into fireballs so intense they destroy 100 story buildings in under 2 hours?

:shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :0corn

 

[Mr. Mel]

Mr. Mel,


I'll give one of your questions a try

Pentagon cameras may be deemed to sensitive to share. They need to plan for future attack and may just black all this out. Who are you hypothesizing in behind the conspiracy?

Makes sense for a second. BUT, why are they sensitive? You can easily Google images of the Pentagon and surrounding areas, they have shown THOUSANDS of images and videos of the aftermath of what hit the building, why can't they show whatever it was actually hitting it?

HOW CAN THE MOST SACRED BUILDING IN OUR INFRASTRUCTURE OF DEFENSE BE A SITTING DUCK ?

Doesn't add up!

As far as who I think is behind it, let's please save that for later.

I appreciate your conversation Roger.

 

[BobbyBlueChip]

Oh good. You guys can get your own thread again and not venture out.

 

[EXTRAPOLATER]

1. Why wont the gov. release any films from the 77 pentagon cameras, or the citgo, VA. dept. of motor vehicles, or the Sheraton? What do they have to fear or hide if they are telling the truth? The supposed planes were seen at the WTC sites, so whats the difference? How could anything strike the most heavily fortified open structure in the world? You mean to tell me the most important building in the infrastructure of the United States defense and national security was a sitting duck this whole time?

2. How did Hani Hanjour fly a 767 when he couldn't fly a Cessna. How did he find his way back from the KY border. Why did the black box altimeter differ 200' from the official version, and how did he fly 5' off the ground without leaving any marks on the Pentagon lawn?

3. Why did DICK Cheney lie about coming into the white house bunker 40 minutes after Mineta testified DICK arrived?

4. Why didn't NORAD respond for 90 minutes, when they got intercept jets up in 15 or less minutes in all 67 occasions in the previous year?

5. Why did Ted Olson lie about the cell phone calls from his wife Babs? Why did Lisa Jefferson lie about her conversation with Todd Beamer, one which she changed her story within a week on Larry king, saying she knew about the WTC's when talking to Todd, but in talking to him she said she didn't know. Why didn't Lisa Jefferson record her call or tell anyone else there she was talking to a hostage aboard flight 93? CELL PHONE CALLS WERE IMPOSSIBLE AT THE TIME AT ANYTHING NEAR THEIR ALTITUDE.

6. Why did Bush keep reading pet the goat after hearing that WTC's tower 2 was struck, thus endangering 2nd graders lives.

7. Two terrorists passports (allegedly) tumbled free from the WTC's and at Shanksville, along with a red bandana at Shanksville. These items were found and turned over to authorities, appearing magically out of fireballs.

8. How do fires burn twice as hot 90 days after they have started? Why is there thermite in the dust? Why wont FEMA test for these results. Why were crime scenes disturbed. In instances similar to this, people were arrested. How did several hundred pound steel girders get shot out of the WTC's and harpoon into buildings 500' feet away. Why did the EPA lie about the air quality and ship all the metal out of the country ASAP?

9. Why did none of the terrorists appear on any of the flight manifests until months, if not years, later? How could they board without tickets? How could they match their DNA if FBI chief Robert Mueller even admitted days later we might not have all their identities right. Why were at least 7 reported alive within a short time after 9/11, and why were many trained at U.S. MILITARY installations. How did they get in and out of the country with expired passports.

10. Why did we spend 81 million to investigate Bill Clinton getting a hummer, and 15 million to investigate the largest loss of life on American soil. Not to mention the Bush admin stonewalled investigators at EVERY turn and even getting the 15 mill was like pulling teeth 2 years later. Somehow WTC 7, the most suspicious collapse of all and the one Silverstein says was *pulled*, gets left out of the Keen Commish report And Silverstein who had recently taken over the lease of the WTC site made MILLIONS by double duping insurance carriers. Why would he even take this lease anyway, the Towers had lost money for the Port Authority for years and needed Billions in upgrades for internet and to rid it of Asbestos.


========================================

1. Several questions. a) they released as minimal an amount as they felt they could; more would be released if needed; to Shroud this is mystery--by this most secretive administration--doesn't say jack. b) nothing to hide, where 9-11 is concerned. c) say what? d) pants down. e) of course not.

2. Same. a) answered previously. b) if different agencies submit differeing answer to an investigatory body after an event like this are you going to then blame them?--gimme a break. c) the flight path is estimated; Loose Change gets the angle and several other details wrong, though you wouldn't consider them as a source, would you?

3. see 2b

4. This is a total interpretation of "scramble" means--doesn't mean an intercept but a scramble alert (and surely you know about the lag time for that, aye?)--try finding some actualy sources about intercepts....good luck...didn't happen--P.S. check out the number of "scrambles" that happened the year after 9-11 and in subsequent years (try multiplied 4-6 times that "67" but you knew that no doubt). "15 minutes" is another distortion of reality but your belief of "scrambles" as being "intercepts" leave you no choice but to believe this myth. To you the cold war dividend was a complete myth and the U.S. was on high alert during G.W. first year...note how well they performed in their duties during Katrina.

5. Nobody lied about their phone calls. Never mind that cell phones used to be more powerful than they are now--due to necessity--nor that most calls reported were from airphones, nor that the few calls made by cell phone occured over sparsely populated areas making cell phone connections much easier, but there are further problems with the "study" that one, non-replicated test suggests this lack of cell-phone ability from a time gone by...you've looked into this study though, no doubt, so you probably know about its flaws, aye?

6. Irrelevant. Bush is a turd, and a turd would likely attract other turds so don't hold the Secret Service responsible for anything (extra).

7. If the U.S. government actually bullshitted about some freakin' passport or some bandana then whoop-de-do? Don't think they might fake something to provide whatever further evidence they need to back up their otherwise tenuous (or whatever) argument...this says nothing, in other words.

8. Multiplon. a) question makes no sense. b) there is no thermite; Jones evidence is :mj13: ...you do understand what Jones "evidence" for thermite is, right? c) FEMA should test for what results?--they knew the cause of the collapses. d) you have no clue what investigation "of the crime scene" too place...try some other sources. e) collapse was a very explosive event...don't think anyone would disagree with that. f) the EPA lied about the air quality because they were directed to by their superiors--utilitarian by their corrupt standards but the benefits were obvious, aye? g) see 8d

9. a) The flight manifest were originally released short several names from each flight--no release of hijacker names--if you understand 7. then you might get this one. b) "board without tickets?"...are you kidding me? c) one group did its job while the other is protecting its ass d) several reports of "living" terrorists have been debunked--see the shit you refuse to look at sometime...that is, read it. e) Connections between the supposed hijackers and U.S. military training seems suspect at best--I'll look at what you have to offer here--let my love open the door--but my guess is you won't even notice this solidary query because you'll totally dismiss this stuff which clearly challenges your belief...time will tell. f) gee, they got into the country...see 1d, 4conclusion and some common sense tossed in.

10. a) says nothing...who cares what this shit "cost?" b) You don't understand what "pull it" meant. c) The report didn't cover bulding 7...that was a side-effect, if you will, like whatever subsequent deaths occured due to contaminated ground zero working conidtions. d) Silverstein is losing money on this deal--i.e. it's COSTING HIM--though he still owns the rights to the properties...whoop-de-do for him this last 7 years aye?...yeah...made a killing...what a great business decision. e) the buildings being pieces of shit (which might offend some viewers) and them going kaput says nothing.

Monday--nothing
Tuesday--nothing
Wednesday and Thursday--nothing
Friday for a change a little more nothing
Saturday once more--nothing

--The Fugs