U.S. VETERANS KILLING THEMSELVES. 120 A WEEK

[AR182]

I don't get a good night's sleep after a bad beat sometimes.........I have no earthly idea how a combat veteran can even shave without shaking, how they keep from flinching if a tire blows out nearby. If we can't manage their care after exposing them to the horrors of war, then isn't that just another argument for not sending them into the line of fire.........forgetting for now whether or not it can be "justified".............in the first place?:shrug:

very good point....it's also very disturbing to me
about the medical care that the vets are getting...& giving the excuse that it's too costly is lame...since this type of war is going to take some time, i'll mention again that i think there should be a military tax to cover costs such as this..

 

[marine]

I live walking distance from ...hot during a war.... this guy PILED UP bodies

 

[marine]

Marine and Dogs,
As for medical - are you aware that Iraq vets only get full VA health benefits for two years after returning from Iraq (if discharged) if they have a job paying 35,000 or more and are deemed relatively healthy .35,000?

You pulled this out of the USA Today didn't you? You butchered it in your "interpretation" of it.

 

[escarzamd]

For the record.....marine quoted the response from roc made about the link to demographics data, not my response, which would dovetail more with Gen Butler in the longview.

He did pile up the bodies though.......2 CMHs and a Brevet Medal on the way, in addition to a short prohibition stint in Philly (thru US rep father having the mayor in pocket) where it looks as if he pulled a Charles Bronson on EVERYBODY.......mob, corrupt police, hookers, gamblers, and drinkers of all class distinction. Wrote a mini-manifesto ("War is a Racket") exposing Eisenhower's "military-industrial complex" 25 yrs before Ike's famous parting words.

Uniquely 20th Century American CV overall.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smedley_Butler

 

[escarzamd]

very good point....it's also very disturbing to me
about the medical care that the vets are getting...& giving the excuse that it's too costly is lame...since this type of war is going to take some time, i'll mention again that i think there should be a military tax to cover costs such as this..

Yeah.......definitely should have future costs tax-exempt......health-care, education loans for themselves and families......I could be sold on not taxing post-service income at all up to a reasonable number (what that would be.....no clue).......no real price on the sacrifice made or long-term effects and cost there-of can be reasonably calculated.

 

[Jabberwocky]

DTB, what did Iraq have to do with the attacks on our homeland? :shrug:

did you miss this one DTB?

 

[roc612]

Since you are making some bold guesses here, I am going to respond short and to the point.

1. You live near recruiting offices. great. Unless you are sitting in the MEPS on the 30th of the month you know jack sh*t about who is meeting and not meeting their recruiting goals. Sitting outside their office on a bench with a cup of coffee in your paws watching minimal foot traffic go by does say anything.

2. If your twenty year old daughter came home and told you she just took a job working the Burger King drive thru, would you question her judgement the same? more? or less?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

How is either a bold statement?
no1.)- I work out with soldiers who run the recruitment centers at a local gym near their offices. So unless soldiers who work at these offices get off on lying then -I guess they were being truthful with me
no2.) working at burger kings drive thru is a job opportunity that I wouldnt question- you got that right.
if she enlisted to help corporate america gain 100% return on their money because 6% isnt enough (as The former Marine Major General so eloquently quoted)- that I would definitely question-
And as a gambling man I like her chances of not getting shot , maimed or blowing her effing head off after working her shift at a burger king
WHICH IS WHAT this THREAD is about in the first place

 

[roc612]

Marine,
Lastly I didnt get my info from USA TODAY about soldiers with health care issues.I got it from a local career Coast guard veteran who writes a regular column to benefit veterans in my area
here is some more FACTUAL info from that column. 1.8 million U.S. veterans under age 65 lack even basic health insurance or access to care at The VA hospitals
- the ranks of uninsured vets has increased by 290,000 since 2000.The facts were presented to The House Committee on Vet affairs prior to this column which is from July 2007
Hopefully you will agree with many of us that this needs attention of our politicians. Since it appears you are a marine(good guess huh) former or present it doesnt matter. i would think you would find these figures staggering
1,8 million in a country of 330 million or so?I dont like that percentage much.
Roc

 

[roc612]

also ,
OIF/OEF Vets are eligible for two years of free heath care after discharge.To get it THEY MUST ENROLL at a VA health facility.
Just giving out this info as a public service a type announcement.
Roc

 

[Jabberwocky]

You hippies quoting Smedley D. Butler.... you know he is a legendary killing machine in the Marine Corps right? Not just a couple of guys he shot during a war.... this guy PILED UP bodies

whats a "hippy"?

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

did you miss this one DTB?

No I didn't miss it Jabbers --I figured he was the only one that couldn't see the obvious--but since there are 2 of you--

Terrorist ie Muslim fanatics attacked our homeland--since these terrorist operate in numerous countries but have no domicile country --by your reasoning there would be no country we could retaliate with.

Afgan didn't attack us either--if terrorist stole or boughts nukes from any nuclear country and set them off in the US--you still couldn't retaliate by your guidelines.

 

[StevieD]

Dogs,

I hate to tell you but you didn't clear anything up. By the way, what's going on with the Taliban? Maybe we should have secured that country before starting this farce in Iraq.

 

[gardenweasel]

marine and dtb....think about what we`re seeing on this board now....


the surge IS working....even the msm is beginning to grudgingly admit(the la times and the ny times) that things are improving considerably in iraq as a result of petraues` surge....troop and civilian deaths are way down....everyone acknowledges that alqaeda is on the run and that the different sunnis/shia and tribal leaders are sick of the killing and are cooperating with us and their own soldiers and police in ratting out the bad guys....

so,what do you get now from the progressives...and one little jihadi i won`t name?(spytheweb).....you get aticles on veteran suicide rates and army desertion......

lol...but,"they support the troops".......

 

[AR182]

marine and dtb....think about what we`re seeing on this board now....


the surge IS working....even the msm is beginning to grudgingly admit(the la times and the ny times) that things are improving considerably in iraq as a result of petraues` surge....troop and civilian deaths are way down....everyone acknowledges that alqaeda is on the run and that the different sunnis/shia and tribal leaders are sick of the killing and are cooperating with us and their own soldiers and police in ratting out the bad guys....

so,what do you get now from the progressives...and one little jihadi i won`t name?(spytheweb).....you get aticles on veteran suicide rates and army desertion......

lol...but,"they support the troops".......

gw...

of course i'm glad that the surge is working but it only heightens what some have said from the beginning....there weren't enough soldiers from the start....if there were, i believe there wouldn't have been as many american casualties..

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

Agree AR but I believe the biggest boost--maybe more so than troop additions--has been in Iraq'is fed up with AQ's mass killings--I think they have figured out its best to work together against the terrorists.
Has got to the point where AQ is fearing both Sunni's as Shites as much as our troops--and the way I see that is much more favorable in long term than our troops.

Things are looking MUCH better there--especially in light of the
-- we've already lost-can't win-retreat CCP.
(Code Pink Party)

--and on your support the troops issue GW--I see where there is a big stink in CA over them helping illegals with college tuition but still refusing to give their National Guard a cent.:shrug:

 

[Ravenous]

Thread sucessfully hijacked! This really isn't about the morality or wisdom of the current war. It is about the care and support shown to Veterans.

I don't know whether our veterans are comitting suicide at a higher rate than the general population. I do know there was a National Guardsman here that killed himself a few weeks ago. I don't know the details, so I don't know if any of that was related to the service.

As noted on another thread, suicide is a tremendous waste. Talking about it is certainly NOT anti-troops or anti-war.

 

[roc612]

------------------------------------------------
GW,
Love guys who jump on the 4 to 7 word sound bites("they dont support the troops") that the GOP spin machine churns out .Non- neocons support the troops-Just as much)- What we dont support are the policies of this adminstration. Specifically when we play world cop(stole that from the South park boys).
I really wouldnt of cared a rats rear end if we gave every citizen a week to get out of Afghanistan before we blew it off the map, because at least we would ve killed off the OSAMA. I dont support being lied to by this administration as a cause for going to war against a jerk who had ZIP. ZILCH, NADA to do with 9/11. I doubt theres an Amercian alive who wouldnt have supported 150,000 troops going to afghanistan, (by the way- I've noticed how none of you GOP supporters talks about just how lousy its going there and in pakistan)
the immediate successes weve had lately in IRAQ are wonderful(by the way-Did you notice how Fox news are the good guys whenever they report something and the rest of the media is liberal and biased and code pinko's when they DARE to say that the war isnt going well.) The difference between the MSM and the corporate bought annd paid for media outlets(like fox and murdoch's other interests) is the MSM reports more fairly and balanced than FOX will ever dare to do. Fox never says anything is ever going poorly or that any GOP decision is ever truly wrong .The measuring stick is where will that region be at in ten or twenty years and the BIGGER question is -Will we still be there in some capacity playing world cop in ten or twenty yrs.
GW,Glad you arent footing the massive bill (in the trillions)and also losing friends . children, and loved ones in this rush to war called Iraqi freedom.By the way- you mention civilian iraqi deaths are way down. thats a great statistic for the already 1.1 million who are already dead (guess its justthe casualties of war)
.
didnt know that suciide 's of our troops (and recently discharged military) is an un-worthy topic. Guess the 4-7 word GOP spinmesiters dont like that truthy stuff being brought up.

 

[ImFeklhr]

That rate of suicide has taken it beyond a Japanese level. That's when you know you have a problem. :scared :scared

Hopefully they can bring it down a bit, but again, it is a really small percentage of people.

Reminds me of the stats some people use for second hand smoking death. Your rate of lung cancer if you are around smokers your whole life is triple that of someone not around smoking. What they rarely mention is tripling 0.00001% is still just %0.00003. Made those numbers up, but you get my point.

 

[escarzamd]

Hopefully they can bring it down a bit, but again, it is a really small percentage of people.

That may be true. I would think the balance of these vets are younger (age<25) and mostly male, which would roughly correlate with the civilian stats on suicides in relation to demographics..........but it is an inordinately high percentage of vets, which imo suggests a hole somewhere in their aftercare. For every suicide, there are 20 others who have a continuum of problems stemming from PTSD.

However, if spinning the story as a way making us all aware of this dereliction of our duty to our vets' psychiatric care, in particular, and overall post-service healthcare in general, gets the topic into an open forum, then spin it however you like.

 

[gardenweasel]

------------------------------------------------
GW,
Love guys who jump on the 4 to 7 word sound bites("they dont support the troops") that the GOP spin machine churns out .Non- neocons support the troops-Just as much)- What we dont support are the policies of this adminstration. Specifically when we play world cop(stole that from the South park boys).
I really wouldnt of cared a rats rear end if we gave every citizen a week to get out of Afghanistan before we blew it off the map, because at least we would ve killed off the OSAMA. I dont support being lied to by this administration as a cause for going to war against a jerk who had ZIP. ZILCH, NADA to do with 9/11. I doubt theres an Amercian alive who wouldnt have supported 150,000 troops going to afghanistan, (by the way- I've noticed how none of you GOP supporters talks about just how lousy its going there and in pakistan)
the immediate successes weve had lately in IRAQ are wonderful(by the way-Did you notice how Fox news are the good guys whenever they report something and the rest of the media is liberal and biased and code pinko's when they DARE to say that the war isnt going well.) The difference between the MSM and the corporate bought annd paid for media outlets(like fox and murdoch's other interests) is the MSM reports more fairly and balanced than FOX will ever dare to do. Fox never says anything is ever going poorly or that any GOP decision is ever truly wrong .The measuring stick is where will that region be at in ten or twenty years and the BIGGER question is -Will we still be there in some capacity playing world cop in ten or twenty yrs.
GW,Glad you arent footing the massive bill (in the trillions)and also losing friends . children, and loved ones in this rush to war called Iraqi freedom.By the way- you mention civilian iraqi deaths are way down. thats a great statistic for the already 1.1 million who are already dead (guess its justthe casualties of war)
.
didnt know that suciide 's of our troops (and recently discharged military) is an un-worthy topic. Guess the 4-7 word GOP spinmesiters dont like that truthy stuff being brought up.

firstly.....i hope everyone had a happy thanksgiving.....


secondly....those "policies" are the same ones that many dems(including some candidates,i.e. hillary) signed off on(the authority to use force against saddam ).....

actually,bush said nothing that bill clinton didn`t say(maybe in even more emphatic terms).....

talk about your sound bites.....go back and listen to some of bill and hill`s speeches about saddam and wmd`s...(scott atlanta posted some doozies awhile back,i believe)...bush and bill were on the same page...

i guess you`re saying that bush,in office for a relatively short time,knew exponenetially more than bill clinton and congress did(but of course he "hid" crucial intelligence)...strangely,though,the 9/11 commission and the dems can prosecute scooter libby for a poor memory...can go through all this b.s....yet,can`t figure out that what info bush hid,can`t prove that he did,nor can they figure out how he brought down the towers on 9/11?....

people that believe this suffer from what`s called a "borderline personality disorder".....they have a tendency to react more intensely to lower levels of stress and take longer to recover(and the foaming at the mouth is a dead giveaway in many instances)....

and even though he knew that saddam had no wmds,he still took him out with the blessing of more dems in congress than voted to remove saddam from kuwait after his invasion(by all accounts,a very "legal" action that was given the corrupt u.n.`s blessing).......

of course bush knew that saddam was bluffing...that saddam was risking his entire kingdom . ...but,for what?(.i haven`t figured that one out yet).....

saddam couldn`t just throw the doors open and let the u.n. verify that he had no wmd programs....that would be to easy(see south africa and the ukraine)....he`d rather we find out the hard way...costing him and his sons everything... their lives included.....

makes sense...:look:

"but,the u.n. said"...."but,el baridei said"(the very same elbaridei thats getting ready to close the book on the iranian program and give them a pass?).....

selective memory....very useful,indeed...(now,i`ll prepare to be deluged with a tsunami of copy and paste articles from loony left wing websites)....

chill out guys....another year and you`ll have hillary...she`ll pull the troops out(or will she?)...we`ll have illegal aliens with drivers licenses(i think...hill`s not real clear on this issue, either)...of course they`ll be gender-neutral so we won`t offend any trans-gender individuals...we`ll have a democratic monarchy because illegals with licenses will be able to vote...and the republicans will never win another election because you won`t even have to be a citizen of this country to vote....

we`ll have v.p. bill richardson(possibly the dumbest,most delusional politician this side of kucinich or pon paul).....

the military will be downsized as china becomes the new power...the new moral authority in the world...it will really be fun to see how the chinese deal with the islamist threat....rules of engagement?...i don`t think so....

they`ll roll back the patriot act(your civil liberties will be saved and all your loved ones that bush incarcerated will be freed)...you`ll have universal health care(you`ll be put on a waiting list for everything from a ct scan to a coronary by-pass....btw,what will all those canadians and europeans that need immediate care do?)

we`ll be in moonbat heaven.....

be patient....