USA Today/ESPN Poll

[Scott4USC]

ESPN Poll Iowa #24 and ASU nowhere to be found??? . . . OUCH!

Didn't ASU just beat Iowa 44-7? That is ridiculous.
ASU is 3-0 and Iowa 2-1.

Well. I guess there might be something to this east coast bias thing after all. Iowa rated higher than ASU is absolutely classic. 4 big ten teams in the top 25? Wisconsin still ranked? I guess Dirk will get to play the No respect card in his pre game pep talk even more than usual.

Why is UGA still ranked #3 in the country?

Why is Michigan ranked #18 ahead of Notre Dame? Why is Michigan even ranked in the top 20?

Who is the idiot who gave Oregon a top 25 ranking vote? They are freaking 0-2 and lost at home to Indiana.

Bottom line is why are the polls afraid to move teams up and down on a week to week basis?

ESPN TOP 25 COACHES POLL

1. Southern California (48) 3-0 1,510 1
2. Oklahoma (12) 3-0 1,465 2
3. Georgia 3-0 1,370 3
4. Miami (Fla.) (1) 2-0 1,357 5
5. Texas 2-0 1,258 6
6. Ohio State 3-0 1,192 7
7. West Virginia 3-0 1,047 8
8. Tennessee 2-0 971 13
9. California 2-0 937 10
10. Auburn 3-0 928 15
11. Florida State 1-1 896 11
12. Virginia 3-0 796 16
13. LSU 2-1 795 4
14. Utah 3-0 752 14
15. Purdue 2-0 662 18
16. Florida 1-1 532 9
17. Fresno State 3-0 500 20
18. Michigan 2-1 476 17
19. Minnesota 3-0 435 22
20. Wisconsin 3-0 395 21
21. Boise State 3-0 346 23
22. Louisville 2-0 204 24
23. Maryland 2-1 193 19
24. Iowa 2-1 147 12
25. Oklahoma State 3-0 144 NR

 

[Mr Hockey]

Once again this poll just proves how clueless most people are about football.

Personally I think Oklahoma should be #1 as USC hasn't looked that impressive but I won't worry about it too much as it isn't like it is a crime they are #1.

What I truly don't understand is how Georgia still #3? I mean I don't even think they are the best team in their conference! They won't win a national title with that offense.

What is wrong with alot of these polls is the people who vote are stuck in a time machine & vote based on names instead of what really is happening today.

 

[Scott4USC]

Mr Hockey

This poll is the coaches poll so they are to be blamed. I bet the AP will be very similar.

I completely agree with you about UGA. They are a very good team but not the 3rd best team in the country. Just another example of SEC teams getting over hyped.

Why do you think OU deserves to be #1? What have they done to prove to you they deserve to be ranked #1? Were you impressed with there first 3 wins ALL AT HOME? Does OU play on the road? Are they afraid to play on the road? USC won 2 road games in 2 VERY hostile environments and 1 home game. In my opinion that is a lot more impressive. My opinion is winning on the road vs an average team is a lot harder than winning at home against a good team.

@V-Tech vs Bowling Green
Colorado St. vs Houston
@BYU vs Oregon

I was trying to think when was the last time Oklahoma beat a very good team. I came up blank. This year they beat North Texas, Bowling Green, and an Oregon team who still has severe defensive problems, in addition to missing two field goals. I think Oregon currently is the 7th best Pac 10 team. Maybe even 8th. When OU faced quality opponents last year being kansas state and LSU they were handled. They beat texas last year, but even they were overrated. I still came up wondering when was the last time OU beat a good quality team???

Their offense is very vanilla, they run that shotgun, and hand it off out of the shotgun ( i hate that play!!) they run sweeps, and powers, and nothing fancy with the wide receivers.

Not attacking you, I am just very curious to why you "personally" think that OU deserves to be #1?
Now I felt OU should have been pre-season #1 but after 3 games I def. put USC ahead of OU. I think USC is 7pts better than OU and then after OU there is a big dropoff with the rest of the top 10. USC and OU are in class by themselves.

Anyone agree or disagree?

 

[Master Capper]

Let me know when USC is done playing their MWC schedule! Scott, on what basis does USC deserve to be number one? Surely, not their schedule, you rag on Okie's schedule yet you hyped Oreg before the season started. Personally, I dont see any team in the top 25 that is a lock to run the table of all the teams that I have watched this year Cal and Utah have looked the best. I do agree with you on ASU thats a joke that Iowa is ranked ahead of them

 

[Scott4USC]

Master Capper

Jeff Sagarin NCAA football ratings

USC has played the #25 ranked SOS
OU has played the #115 ranked SOS

USC 2 road wins and 1 home win.
OU 3 home wins 0 road wins.

Looks like I answered your question about schedule! To add fuel to my argument, USC opened their season @V-Tech (65k Hokie fans, 15k USC fans, 10k neutral fans) vs OU opening their season AT HOME against Bowling Green.

So yes, I think USC deserves being #1 over OU after 3 games of the season! Yes I thought Oregon was going to be the 3rd best Pac 10 team but now I think they are the 7th or 8th best Pac 10 team. I also said I would have ranked OU #1 pre-season but now I would have OU #2. I also thought UGA was a top 5 pre-season team now I think they barely are a top 10 team! A lot changes week to week.

I agree with you about CAL looking great. USC has been saving their plays for that showdown against CAL. I think the winner of that game goes to the National Championship game! UTAH is very good team but they have not beaten anybody SOLID on the road. Maybe Arizona but they are maybe the 7th-8th best Pac 10 team as of right now. Fresno St. has been a lot more impressive than Utah IMO.

USC is the only team on the west coast that gets national respect and that is not right.

 

[gman2]

well, michigan is ranked higher than notre dame for two reasons:

1) theyre much better than notre dam
2) notre dame lost to a mountain west team

i dont buy the "well, team A beat team B so they should be ranked higher". notre dame caught lightning in a bottle in the 4th quarter of that game and got the win, but michigan is clearly superior.

as far as where michigan is ranked, no team ranked below michigan would beat them.

i can somewhat agree with the bitching on georgia being #3. when its all said and done, georgia is probably gonna be deserving of that ranking, but based on what theyve done so far, its a little steep.

as far as #1 between oklahoma and usc, to this point, oklahoma has looked better than southern cal. that being said, neither team has looked good at all in my opinion. both obviously show their talent in 3 or 4:00 spurts, but oklahoma has been more consistent than usc to this point

 

[Scott4USC]

gman2

I certainly hope OU has been more consistent than USC since OU has played the #115th ranked SOS and 3 consecutive home games. I sure hope so!!! :142lmao:

@V-Tech
Colorado St.
@BYU

vs
Bowling Green
Houston
Oregon

USC schedule hands down has been tougher. But people love to overlook playing on the road especially when they are hostile environments.

"well, team A beat team B so they should be ranked higher"

I disagree.

ND beat Michigan and Michigan should have lost to SDSU! Michigan beat SDSU by 3pts at Michigan. ND lost to a good BYU team @BYU and beat MSU @MSU and beat Michigan at home. Michigan has done NOTHING to deserve that ranking. I guess you are in favor of ranking on potential vs results. I like to factor both and Michigan SHOULD NOT be ahead of ND.

I have no clue why so many people don't put extra emphasis on teams who play on the road. It blows my mind. Especially when a team opens their 1st game of the season on the road.

ND playing BYU on the road was MUCH tougher than Michigan playing Miami Ohio at Michigan. I guess you do not respect that.

 

[Sun Tzu]

Give it a rest. As bad as the polls are Sagarin is worse. How can anyone truly rate a schedule at this point. It is so scientifically invalid as to be absurd to even discuss. He even gives SO MIss SOS #8 based on 1 game and that against the joke that is Nebraska! USC's is only so high because to the computer BYU's win over ND looks so good. OU's would be about 70 spots higher if Oregon had one less turnover. SOS as a concept is nice but in reality it is absurd. Look at Auburn - they are 3-0 with a win over LSU and thats considered 40 places worse than USC beating VT, BYU, and C0lo State? The wya these computer SOS's work it is considered tougher to beat teams (say 5 games) 58,59,60,and 61 and 62 than it is to beat 1,2,65,116, and 117. That's just nuts.

Bottom line both OU and USC have 3 wins against 3 crap teams. Bottom line also each has only 1 game on the schedule that is even a theoretical contest. And, thanks to all of USC's bitching from last year, SOS is out the window and after next year non-conference big games will be a thing of the past. We already have games being cancelled left and right.

 

[Scott4USC]

Sun Tzu I completely disagree with your whole post except about SOS not meaning much at this point of the season. However, you cannot even compare USC SOS vs OU SOS. USC has played a MUCH MUCH tougher schedule thus far than OU. You have absolutely NO ARGUMENT supporting OU playing tougher schedule than USC. Just my opinion.

 

[gman2]

scott:

jesus. are you harping about strength of schedule? its only the third week of the season.

i guess i dont need a calculator, logarithm, or graphing paper to tell me michigan is superior to notre dame, regardless of outcome.

i suppose i should be looking for maine to overtake mississippi state in the top-100 poll this week as well.

as far as byu goes- no, byu is not good.

and as for notre dame beating michigan state - you mean the same michigan state who couldnt beat a team that new hampshire could?

i think you should step back and admit that usc has not looked the part of a #1 team at this point in the season. neither has oklahoma.

 

[Lost Hillbilly]

It's still September....does it really matter right now except for ego boosting!!!Based upon who's has passed the toughest test thus far, maybe USC, certainly not UGA, OU or Miami...Wait until late October and it will begin to take shape.

Let's take a shot and pick the top five come October 31st.

1. USC
2. OU
3. MIAMI
4. OH.ST
5. WVU

 

[Sun Tzu]

Here is another one - how on earth does Sagarin have Florida State ranked 4 and an SOS of 4? FSU is 1-1 with a win over UAB, which of course had a real tough win against perennial power Baylor.

As anyone can see, there is an incredibly inherent bias in these computers and the idea of SOS. Even a full college football season is rather invalid statistically. If the computer is objective, how does it "know" that a Miami win over FSU in week one is any more impressive than Kansas beating Tulsa?

 

[Sun Tzu]

Scott I am so surprised. let's see - SC beat a middle to bottom of the pack ACC team, a winless MWC team, and a MWC team that got blown out by Stanford. How impressive. If you could read you would note I didnt say that OU had a tougher schedule, but why let facts get in your way. I said they both played 3 shitty teams and that's an absolute fact.

 

[Sun Tzu]

Well how could I have doubted the validity of Sagarin's SOS - he has Portland State at #1. they have played Western State and Fresno.

 

[Scott4USC]

Lost Hillbilly I agree with your post.

gman2 Michigan had there chance against ND and lost and you cannot blame weather. Michigan then plays SDSU at Michigan and barely wins by 3pts. I agree you can think Michigan is a better team but I do not think you can validate ranking Michigan ahead of ND. Maybe if ND had 2 losses or if ND played all 3 games at home this season. ND has played a tough opening schedule and you should respect that.

You said you were more impressed with OU being more consistent etc. Well I am not sure if you factored in who they played and where they played. Not bashing or attacking you just bringing up valid arguments. USC without a doubt has been much more tested than OU. I think you would agree.

and as for notre dame beating michigan state - you mean the same michigan state who couldnt beat a team that new hampshire could?

Now are you guilty of saying team a beat team b so team a must be better than team c cuz team c lost to team d etc...........etc....etc....

i think you should step back and admit that usc has not looked the part of a #1 team at this point in the season. neither has oklahoma.

I said ALL pre-season USC will not be dominant in the early season. I said if USC wins their first 6 games USC will win the National Championship. I still believe that and I think USC has been far more impressive than I first thought. USC only returned 2 starters on offense from last year and starting a whole new OL and USC has played 2 road games in hostile envronments.

 

[Scott4USC]

Sun Tzu

Well how could I have doubted the validity of Sagarin's SOS - he has Portland State at #1. they have played Western State and Fresno.

:142lmao:

Good point!!!! I did say I agree with you that ranking SOS this early does not have much validity but Sagarin's SOS does support MY argument.

Scott I am so surprised. let's see - SC beat a middle to bottom of the pack ACC team, a winless MWC team, and a MWC team that got blown out by Stanford. How impressive. If you could read you would note I didnt say that OU had a tougher schedule, but why let facts get in your way. I said they both played 3 shitty teams and that's an absolute fact.

USC beat V-Tech @V-Tech (65K Hokie fans vs 15k USC fans) ENOUGH SAID!

BYU lost their #1 starting QB and #2 backup QB to injuries in the Stanford game and had multiple turnovers. BYU might have looked ahead to USC or celebrating after beating ND or who knows. I do know BYU is a good scrappy team who is dangerous at home. Plus they have a very tough defensive scheme. BYU would beat at least 2 of the 3 opponents OU played. BTW, USC faced the #1 BYU QB!

USC 2 road wins OU ZERO road wins! Enough said!

 

[gman2]

scott:

serious question for you. i mean this question in a very serious, non-judgmental way whatsoever

what playing experience do you have on what levels when it comes to football?

you strike me as someone who has a very bright, very analytical mind who most likely has been around following football his whole life and who has a fair grasp of the intricacies of the game; however it would be my guess that you havent played the game.

a lot of your arguments are statistically and numerically based. which doesnt make them wrong by any means.

im just wondering if you have playing experience. and im not asking because a "yes answer would make your opinions valid". im just trying to get more of an idea of where youre coming from on your perspectives. your research and arguments are very thorough and ostensibly valid, but they often conflict with more a more fundamental players perspective

 

[Mr Hockey]

Normally Gman I agree with you but I'm totally against your comment that no one ranked below Michigan would beat them.

I'd give Michigan backers 10 pts against Boise & laugh to the bank, Louisville would beat them, Maryland could give them a game with their QB a little mor seasoned, Iowa might just beat them this Saturday, & Oklahoma State could give them a game too.

Michigan is ranked because of their name at this point & because that other overhyped team Notre Dame has looked good the last 2 games.

As far as Maine is concerned, they are better then Mississippi State but that isn't saying much. I do think they along with a few other 1AA teams could easily stay within 17 points of every top 25 team & pull off a few wins straight up.

 

[Mr Hockey]

The reason I would put Oklahoma @ #1 is because they have looked like the more dominant team for the first few weeks of the season while USC has looked dominant in batches.

This USC team just doesn't look as sharp as they did last season but then they are breaking in new guys so I am not really forming a solid opinion on them as it is too early.

 

[Scott4USC]

gman2

serious question for you. i mean this question in a very serious, non-judgmental way whatsoever

what playing experience do you have on what levels when it comes to football?

you strike me as someone who has a very bright, very analytical mind who most likely has been around following football his whole life and who has a fair grasp of the intricacies of the game; however it would be my guess that you havent played the game.

a lot of your arguments are statistically and numerically based. which doesnt make them wrong by any means.

im just wondering if you have playing experience. and im not asking because a "yes answer would make your opinions valid". im just trying to get more of an idea of where youre coming from on your perspectives. your research and arguments are very thorough and ostensibly valid, but they often conflict with more a more fundamental players perspective

First off, thanks for the kind words gman2 and I always enjoy posting with you. I also found it thoughtful that you tried your best to make sure I would not be offended by your question. To answer your question, NO I have absolutely NO FOOTBALL PLAYING EXPERIENCE on the high school or college level. Did play flag football up until 8th grade! :142lmao: I played baseball in high school (pitcher and 1b). My high school was a small private school with no football team otherwise I prob. would have played. Maybe WR or TE and LB on defense!

You are right that I have been following football my whole life and I do have a fair grasp of the intricacies of the game and you were right in your guess that I havent played the game. I am 23 years old and unfortunately I may not be able to watch college football all day Saturdays much longer since I hooked up with a great job but I am gonna be working my a$$ off. May even have to tape and watch the USC games late at night. So not too happy about that. For example this last Saturday I pretty much watched football from 9am until 10pm (when USC game was over). I always had Direct TV so for the most part I have good grasp on all the teams in the country.

I do not base my opinions solely on numbers/stats but I do like to use them to "support" my arguments. I fully understand and agree with your argument that just because team a beats team b does not mean team a is better than team b. For example CAL beat USC last year but no way they were better team than USC (except that day) and no way did they deserve to be ranked ahead of USC. In our ND/Michigan argument, there have been only 3 games played and as of right now I think ND should be ranked higher than Michigan and I do not think Michigan is a very good football team. If 2 teams have the same record I think the team who won head to head deserves to be ranked ahead unless they played a WEAK schedule.