Wal-Mart

bryanz

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I could write all night........about the harm Wal-Mart has done to our way of life. They are not alone ...JUST THE BIGGEST
DJV......great points
Where are the new factories being built to produce VIRTUALLY ALL goods consumed by Americans.....ooops ....they are being built in China and other foreign countries where labor is relatively FREE.....Oooops no Americans working there and getting insurance for their families...
Oooops Mom and pop can't afford it either......Oooops so many cant get it or afford it that those with ins. get charged for those who don't have it....Oooooops ...now all the insurance costs are gradually being shared more and more by the worker....and thats just insurance..and health care...trickle down effects.
How many CEOs make 100 million + per year???
Breathe deep bear ........Breathe deep..


bear

blame it on walmart. how did we get here ? what are you going to do about it ? we are just helpless americans, the big bad walmart just ate us up. how can a free people be so helpless ? when do we get out of the fetal potion and go to work and take whats ours ?
 
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bryanz

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I could write all night........about the harm Wal-Mart has done to our way of life. They are not alone ...JUST THE BIGGEST
DJV......great points
Where are the new factories being built to produce VIRTUALLY ALL goods consumed by Americans.....ooops ....they are being built in China and other foreign countries where labor is relatively FREE.....Oooops no Americans working there and getting insurance for their families...
Oooops Mom and pop can't afford it either......Oooops so many cant get it or afford it that those with ins. get charged for those who don't have it....Oooooops ...now all the insurance costs are gradually being shared more and more by the worker....and thats just insurance..and health care...trickle down effects.
How many CEOs make 100 million + per year???
Breathe deep bear ........Breathe deep..


bear

I went to work monday at 5:30 am came home at 10:30 pm, great day. I'm not happy about whats happening in America but it's every man for him self. Not my rules I just play by them. It's out there, if you want it. I willing to pay the price and help others if I can, but wont sit around in a free country crying about what walmart did.
 

bryanz

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Just remember guys. For all the low wages and half health care plans if any they get there. We get to pay for whats left over with our higher cost at the hospital and insurance cost . So save 75 bucks on your computer. And pay 30/40 bucks more a month in your health care to keep supporting those with low standard health care. Or that have none at all.
Strange Sears can make tons of money. But can pay so much better. Kohl's makes lots of cash and pays better to. It some times just comes down to who's more greedy.

Thank God Walmart pays for part of it. Where would these people be ? The mom and pops are not going to pay for nothing. The mayor of my city owned a mom and pop for yrs. He just sold his business for $500,000. I talked to a guy that worked there 15 yrs, no health care all those yrs, nothing but his pay check the day they told him thank you.
 

smurphy

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Just remember guys. For all the low wages and half health care plans if any they get there. We get to pay for whats left over with our higher cost at the hospital and insurance cost . .
Good point + if someone works full-time there for less than $7.50ish an hour, the rest of us get to make up their sub-poverty salary through Earned Income Credit.

That said, I'm not going to harp on Wal-Mart. I try my best to avoid the place because I hate the experience of shopping there. I have the luxury of multiple stores to choose from that sell all the same things. Most people have those choices too - not all, but most.

Wal-Mart is capitalism in it's purest form. They cut every cost of operation to the bone. It's awesome and scary at the same time. If Wal-Mart was a country, it would be China's 7th largets trading partner ...that is really insane when you think about it. People have every right to fight against them - it's probably the only way they can improve wages and benefits. I won't complain about the company or the unions against them.
 

bryanz

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I'm a very small contractor and for a 5 yr period walmart sold me something that cost me 4.30 . Everyone else had the same exact thing for 6.00 to 8.00... Finally this yr Walmart is on par with the rest. What was I supposed to do for those 5 yrs ? Be a good American and pay more at the other stores ? The one store that I used to buy it at before I got smart was builders square and they went out of business. Should I have been a good American and gone out with them ?
 

ImFeklhr

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I see both sides. They are success story and a cancer. Nothing is cut and dry.

I've honestly never been inside WalMart, because there isn't one in my hometown, but I've been to Target a couple times, and it seems like things are cheap, so you can buy things you didn't need in the first place.

Now that is a whole other can of worms, but I think the real shame in society is this need to buy shit all the time. I'm no better than anyone else, in this respect, but it's one thing I try to rein in in my life. Non stop purchasing.

Buying shit just because you can. Man, it'sthe fact that WalMart has no soul that bothers me the most. Forget the money aspect for a minute. Wamart is robbing Americans of a soul. Same with chain restraunts. No nuance in life anymore. Everywhere you go in this country everything is the same. That ISN'T a good thing.

Anyone feel me? Maybe I'm just talking out of my ass.
 

bryanz

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I saw this topic brought up in another thread. Is it just me or do other Democrats also wish that our party spokespeople would quit ripping this place so hard?

I am a pro-Union guy and we all know how aggressive Wal-Mart is in snuffing Unions at their stores, but at some point you just have to recognize that people love Wal-Mart.

Being the liberal elitist :D that I am, I was shocked by the cheapness (in both good and bad ways) of the products when I went to Wal-mart a few months ago. It was my first trip in there in nearly 10 years, and what I took away from it was that prices were not *that* much better than Target to the point that it was worth it to support Wal-Mart's anti-Union policies.

The problem I have is that just because I am willing to spend a bit more to support Unions doesn't mean that our whole party should be trying to force others to do the same. I am all for encouraging Wal-Mart employees to unionize, but I also recognize that Wal-Mart's anti-Union policies do have the benefit of keeping prices low and allowing down-and-out people to get relatively stable jobs that can help them get out of unemployment/welfare cycles.

Not picking on you Nick, but you brought up unions. I know that for many, unions are sacred ground. They had a place and still have a place in America. I don't care if you are or not in one but you need to do a honest days work. We can not pay a guy because he is in a union for a days work when he's not worth the money the union commands for him . You work you get paid. If you are worth 10, 20, 30, 40. 100 per hr God bless you. But don't do less and expect to get paid because you are in a union. In the beginning unions protected the working man, today they protect many that don't want to work. They protect guys that embrace socialism. We have to admit in America we have become lazy, we had it to good. Most people when it gets good they take it easy. That's human nature. So now if we want it we have to go back to work. I'm not talking about all of us, just most of us.
 
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buddy

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Everywhere you go in this country everything is the same. That ISN'T a good thing.

Anyone feel me? Maybe I'm just talking out of my ass.

Alvin Toffler talked about this in 1971 in his book, "Future Shock".

I think the phrase he used was "the homogenizing of America".
 

Happy Hippo

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Now that is a whole other can of worms, but I think the real shame in society is this need to buy shit all the time. I'm no better than anyone else, in this respect, but it's one thing I try to rein in in my life. Non stop purchasing.

Buying shit just because you can. Man, it'sthe fact that WalMart has no soul that bothers me the most. Forget the money aspect for a minute. Wamart is robbing Americans of a soul. Same with chain restraunts. No nuance in life anymore. Everywhere you go in this country everything is the same. That ISN'T a good thing.

Anyone feel me? Maybe I'm just talking out of my ass.

That is precisely my problem with these superstores. I travel a lot, and it is scary how in any town in America you could really be anywhere - everything is the same - you've got your Wal-mart, your McDonalds, your Home Depot, etc. As Buddy says, it is the homogenization of our culture and in my opinion that is not a good thing.

Of course I am no saint either, and you might find me in one of these stores once in a while, and you are absolutely right - you end up buying things just because the price tag is so appealing and it is there...Americans are grand over-consumers and it is a hard addiction to break.

Finally, Wal-Mart also has a reputation for building stores across the country, making a profit, then moving on or building even bigger super-stores and leaving their old building empty. It is estimated that across the nation, about 24 million square feet of Wal-Mart retail space sits vacant -- roughly 300 stores, not counting parking lots. In the meantime, they have put smaller businesses out of work and contributed to making America a more boring place. Then they just move on to the next profitable spot. Growing up in a small rural town, many of the local stores were meeting places for people and we knew nearly everyone who worked there. It is detrimental to communities to have such big corporations running the show, instead of locals who care about the health and vibrance of their towns.

Kind of off the topic of the original post, but oh well...couldn't help myself at this hour...
 

bear

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Yup........and $$$$$$ used to circulate in the neighborhood ..A middle class guy could go to a job at the factory.......buy his food from 1, his clothing from 2, his furniture from 3, his lumber,paint, nails from 4 etc. and the profits to 1,2,3,4.......were spent buying a new appliance from 5 that was built at 1's factory. They would all go to 7's restaurant once in a while and even bet the Giants with 8...who gave everyone a bottle bought from 9 at Christmas ......Money was made and profit circulated and provided opportunity on the local level..................Now....Go to the Depot, Wal-Mart, McDonalds, Applebees,Outback,
Target and where do the profits go??? To a CEO some suits and a bunch of low paid underinsured workers not able to work enough hours to have a middle class existance
Where did the factories go? Where did the middle class go?? Where did affordable housing go?
Winners and losers....seems that is what we are heading for.........Sure there are still opportunities for hard working contractors and laborers in a robust economy....and I don't just sit and whine about Wal mart.....I am fortunate to be one who is doing just fine and can shop where I choose.. but I DON"T LIKE what I see happening to oportunity for middle class workers.
An unlevel playing field, a shrinking middle class, extreme levels of poverty in some communities..
(some resemble ghost towns) and AMERICAN factories being built overseas to build products for AMERICAN CONSUMPTION so the CEO and his cronies, who don't give a rats ass, can make millions per year....They'll tell you they have to do that to be competitive cuz the competition is over there using cheap labor.....Can't compete otherwise... Hey American middle class ...See ya
Hey American factory worker ...See ya
Hey........spreading the wealth........See ya
Oooops.......... breathe deeply bear
Thats just a snippet of the way I see it...

bear
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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Just remember guys. For all the low wages and half health care plans if any they get there. We get to pay for whats left over with our higher cost at the hospital and insurance cost . So save 75 bucks on your computer. And pay 30/40 bucks more a month in your health care to keep supporting those with low standard health care. Or that have none at all.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
More liberal logic at its finest--
Point finger at Walmart that "has" healthcare plan as reason our healthcare costs go up--but whats % of your 90% demographical supporters have "NO" healthcare--and what about all the Dems voting against securing borders-- you complain that "possible"substandard coverage is the cause--but have no probs with those with no coverage--the ABSOLUTE-height of hypocracy.
 

peddler1

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October 18, 2006
Wal-Mart puts an end to layaway
As retailer goes more upscale, poor person's buying plan is axed. It is costly for stores.
By Abigail Goldman Special to The Morning Call Three burgundy blankets and two white lampshades wait for Audrey Larry in a small storeroom at a Wal-Mart in South Los Angeles.

But only until December. Seventeen days before Christmas the retailing giant will discontinue its layaway service, which for decades shoppers like Larry have used to stash their dreams ? color TVs, new coats, bedroom furniture sets ? until they could finish paying for them.



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Mobile News | Subscribe Online | Order Reprints Larry, 57, has used layaway at various stores her whole life as an interest-free way to save up for goods by leaving them at the store and paying for them in installments.

But over the last 20 years, as nearly every other national retailer quit offering the service, Wal-Mart became a mainstay for Larry and many others.

''This is going to be devastating,'' said Larry, who lives on Social Security checks. ''Layaway is for people who don't have credit cards and who don't have a lot of money and are on low budgets ? this is how they buy their stuff.''

Wal-Mart, which built its business offering low-cost goods to customers with limited choices, said it would end its 44-year-old layaway service because few people take advantage of it anymore.

''Our goal is to help folks provide for all their needs but at the end of the day, fewer and fewer people are using layaway,'' said Wal-Mart spokeswoman Linda Blakley. ''There are many customers who rely on this service and are glad we're offering it through the holiday season.

''We want them to continue to be our customers and that's one of the reasons we're looking at programs that will allow us to offer additional purchase options,'' she said.

Wal-Mart, which will continue its layaway service at stores in Canada and Puerto Rico, said the company offered no-interest financing options on its Wal-Mart credit card and also has tested prepaid debit cards.

The company has posted signs at its more than 3,200 Wal-Mart stores letting customers know that they will have until Nov. 19 to put items on layaway and until Dec. 8 to pick them up.

''Layaways came from a period when credit didn't exist for the working class,'' said Nelson Lichtenstein, a professor of history at UC Santa Barbara and editor of the book ''Wal-Mart: The Face of 21st Century Capitalism.'' ''It was a tangible symbol of an ongoing relationship with a customer who would be returning again and again.''

Lichtenstein, whose family owned a five-and-dime store in rural Maryland, remembers working at the layaway counter as a child and watching as poor, working people carefully selected dolls, toys and party dresses to put aside and pay off in 50-cent or one-dollar increments each week.

But those days are long gone, he said, particularly for Wal-Mart, which is trying to remake its image as a slightly more upscale retailer.

There are still a few layaway programs around. Kmart offers the service storewide as a way to serve the lowest-income consumers; Sears, Roebuck & Co. offers layaway on some big-ticket items, such as jewelry. Both stores are owned by Sears Holding Corp.

While credit cards allow customers to enjoy goods now and pay for them later, often with interest added, layaway lets shoppers secure items at the store and pay them off over time, usually with no fees or interest.

Layaway programs began in the 1920s, and took off in the decades thereafter when money was tight and formal credit plans were nonexistent.

Layaway was particularly popular in rural America ? Wal-Mart's original terrain ? where farmers often only came to town once a month, said Dan Butler, vice president of merchandising and retail operations at the National Retail Federation.

But once credit cards became widely available in the 1960s and 1970s, Butler said, layaway was pretty much finished. ''Consumer preference changed,'' Butler said. ''People decided that as long as they were making payments, they might as well charge it, since they at least had the use of the item while they were paying on it.''

Retailers have had problems with layaway programs: Merchandise could be tied up for weeks or months, only to have buyers change their minds. Sometimes, if customers simply stopped making payments, stores had to spend time trying to track down shoppers to return the payments they did make.

And by the time the merchandise was ready to go back on the shelves, it often was out of season, out of date or obsolete, leaving the retailer holding the bag.

Abigail Goldman is a reporter for the Los Angeles Times, a Tribune Publishing newspaper
 

djv

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Were talking Wall Mart in this thread. Sure there are others. But some how being the biggest and greediest they are the ones in the news. And always seem to be in court. Right or wrong they could lead the way to a better way of live for their people. Like I said before if others like Sears, Pennies and Kohl's can do it. As for the side issue our border. I don't see anyone including Bush doing much of any thing. Those republican business that keep hiring all those border jumpers are part of the problem. Fine them big maybe they would stop the slave auction. Even here Wall Mart is one of he biggest in Arkansan, Texas and Georgia. And of course there not the only one.
 

peddler1

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The one true thing that we have to remember is that Wal-Mart is here. Like it or not. We could sit and make arguments for and against them. The thing is what are we going to do about them. I hate it when I hear people complain about Wal-Mart but then go shop there. If you don't like them than don't go. If enough people will start standing up for what they believe than just maybe there can be a diffrence made.
It is the same as the ban on internet gambling. If the people that where against the ban would of all got off there hind sides and let their elected public officials know than it would have been harder to get it passed.
Many people like to complain but they are afraid to stand up and do for themselves.
 

Jabberwocky

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"and what about all the Dems voting against securing borders-- you complain that "possible"substandard coverage is the cause--but have no probs with those with no coverage--the ABSOLUTE-height of hypocracy."

the ABSOLUTE height of hypocrisy (don't use words you can't spell) is the Republican policy of soft borders and the Bush plan of "legalizing illegal aliens" for 6+ years (in an effort to support the cheap labor interests of US corporations). Then right before mid-terms, come out with the "Secure Fence Act." And in your idiotic worldview, the liberals are against a secure border because we hate America and all that it stands for. What a bunch of simple minded douche bags.
 

AR182

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all i will say about wal-mart is what i would say about any other company...

they have every right to be unionized or not. as long as they are not in violation of any laws or are violating any worker's rights.

they have every right to conduct their business the way they see fit as long as they are not breaking any laws.

on the other hand peole have every right not to work for them or to buy merchandise from them.
 
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samayam

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Thank you AR for being rational.

Another peice of rational from the WSJ today.
Should pretty much sum up what this thread is about.


__________________________________
Wal-Mart may be expanding in the People's Republic of China, but here in capitalist America the low-price retailer has become the Democratic Party's favorite pinata. The media like to portray this as a populist uprising against heartless big business. But what they don't bother to disclose is that this entire get-Wal-Mart campaign is a political operation led and funded by organized labor.

We've done a little digging into the two most prominent anti-Wal-Mart groups, and they might as well operate out of AFL-CIO headquarters. An outfit called Wal-Mart Watch was created by the Service Employees International Union (SEIU), probably the most powerful union in America after the National Education Association. Wal-Mart Watch is backed by Five Stones, a 501(c)3 organization that received $2,775,000 in 2005 from the SEIU, or 56% of its $5 million budget. According to financial records, SEIU also gave Five Stones $1 million in 2004 to launch the anti-Wal-Mart group, and SEIU president Andy Stern is the Wal-Mart Watch chairman.


A second group, Wake Up Wal-Mart, is more or less a subsidiary of the United Food and Commercial Workers Union (UFCW). Wake Up Wal-Mart refuses to divulge its funding sources, but here is what we do know: The group was founded by the UFCW, is housed at UFCW headquarters, and its campaign director's $135,000 salary is paid by the UFCW.

Wake Up Wal-Mart also has close ties to the Democratic Party. Its union-funded campaign director is Paul Blank, who was political director of Howard Dean's failed Presidential campaign. The group sponsored a 19 state, 35-day bus tour across the U.S. earlier this year, staging anti-Wal-Mart rallies. Nearly every major Democratic Presidential hopeful has joined in the Wal-Mart-bashing, including Senators Joe Biden and Evan Bayh, New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson, and trial lawyer-turned-man-of the-people John Edwards. They all seem to believe they have to take this line to pass union muster for 2008.

Even Hillary Rodham Clinton has joined in the political fun. Never mind that she served six years on the Wal-Mart board during her time in Beltway exile as an Arkansas lawyer and, according to the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette, was paid $18,000 per year plus $1,500 for every meeting near the end of her tenure. Most recently, Mrs. Clinton returned a $5,000 campaign contribution from Wal-Mart to protest its allegedly inadequate health care benefits. Maybe someone should ask her if she's returned her director's pay, with interest.

* * *

Most of the local protests against Wal-Mart are organized through the left-wing activist group ACORN, an acronym for the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now. ACORN is the group that put the squeeze on the Chicago City Council to pass an ordinance this summer to require Wal-Mart, Target and other big-box stores to pay a minimum $10 an hour wage and $3 an hour in benefits by 2010. (Democratic Mayor Richard Daley vetoed the bill.) ACORN also pretends it is a locally organized and funded voice of the downtrodden masses. But guess where ACORN gets much of its money? Last year the SEIU chipped in $2,125,229 and the UFCW $165,692.

Then there are the anti-Wal-Mart "think tanks," if that's the right word for these political shops -- notably, the Economic Policy Institute (EPI) and the University of California at Berkeley Labor Center. The job of these two outfits is to publish papers backing the economic claims of Wal-Mart critics. The UC Berkeley group recently asserted that Wal-Mart "reduces total take-home pay for retail workers."

The UC Berkeley Labor Center has received at least $43,550 from SEIU. The Economic Policy Institute received $100,000 from the SEIU and $40,000 from the UFCW in 2005 and has published several anti-Wal-Mart studies, particularly on the benefits of the Chicago ordinance. By the way, Andy Stern also sits on the EPI board. He's a busy guy.

Now, we're not predisposed to be pro- or anti-Wal-Mart. We've criticized Wal-Mart lobbying on policy grounds -- for example, when the company supported a minimum wage increase to court some nice publicity while also knowing this would harm any lower-priced competitors. However, it is simply fallacious to argue that Wal-Mart has harmed low-income families.

More than one study has shown that the real "Wal-Mart effect" has been to increase the purchasing power of working families by lowering prices for groceries, prescription drugs, electronic equipment and many other products that have become modern household necessities. One study, by the economic consulting firm Global Insight, calculates that Wal-Mart saves American households an average of $2,300 a year through lower prices, or a $263 billion reduction in the cost of living. That compares with $33 billion savings for low-income families from the federal food stamp program.

* * *

Alas, what's good for working families isn't always good news for unions and their bosses. They hate Wal-Mart because its blue-coated workforce is strictly non-union -- a policy that dates back to the day founder Sam Walton opened his first store. Today the company employs 1.3 million American workers, and its recent push into groceries has made life miserable for Safeway and other grocery chains organized by the service workers or the UFCW.

Wal-Mart pays an average of $10 an hour, which is more than many of its unionized competitors offer. And typically when a new Wal-Mart store opens in a poor area, it receives thousands of job applications for a few hundred openings. So Wal-Mart's retail jobs of $7 to $12 an hour, which the unions deride as "poverty wages," are actually in high demand.

But as we say, this campaign isn't about "working families," or any of the other rhapsody-for-the-common-man union slogans. If Wal-Mart were suddenly unionized, Big Labor's membership would double overnight and union leaders would collect an estimated $300 million in additional dues each year to sway more politicians. Short of that, their goal is to keep Wal-Mart out of cities so their union shops have less competition. That's what the war against Wal-Mart is truly about.
 

Terryray

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a fine editorial above

a fine editorial above

What those elitist resent about Wal-Mart is it gives people what they want, rather than what the elitists think they should have.

Those elitists should move to Cuba or France and impose thier superior ideas on the folks there...

the mom and pop hardware, groceries, etc gone after Wal-Mart moves in (gone out of business because that's what local shoppers have decided---oh, the horrors of letting these folks decide anything!) on the whole aren't unionized and have less benefits than Wal-Mart.

Anyway, Wal-Mart is just the latest big shopping paradigm. It will all be gone sometime. There are still old folks who remember the huge Wal-Mart style resentment Newberry's, Woolworth's, and other 5 and dimes, caused nationwide when they put mom and pop department stores outta business (now folks are nostalgic about Woolworth's!) and now we gotta endure once again the complaints about "loss of community" and "shop where you know everyone"----which I guarantee we will endure once more when folks shop mostly online (or whatever comes next) and people will pine for those old "friendly Wal-Marts" you used to shop at where you'd be greeted with a smile, meet neighbors, talk over purchases, get your haircut and such.
 
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smurphy

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Yeah, mom and pops were losing out way before Wal-Mart. Can't pin that on them.

I hate Wal-Mart greeters. I'd punch em in the face if they weren't all elderly. ...No, I'm not having a freekin nice day! I'm in Wal-Mart for Christ's sake!
 

Nick Douglas

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bryanz,

I disagree that Americans have gotten lazy. By all accounts Americans spend more time on their jobs than ever before.

DTB,

I have to agree with you on this whole minimum wage issue. In my opinion Democrats make too much of it. There is an argument for getting wages up but in reality most places pay well above the minimum wage, anyway. In fact, I think every job I've had (including Cinnabon, slinging pizzas, etc.) has paid more than minimum wage no matter how lazy I was at it. :D
 
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