Warren Buffet is an idiot

AR182

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Hey man!

If you're a reader and enjoy current event type books, try reading Perfectly Legal by David Cay Johnston.

The sub title is "the covert campaign to rig our tax system to benefit the super rich and cheat everybody else."

It is easy to read, meaning, despite its topic, you wont be buried under a heap of numbers.....it was fascinating and a big indictment on how both the powers that be in the R and D parties have squeezed everyday people to benefit the upper, upper, upper class incomes.

Of course, I recomend it to anyone reading this thread or just confused about all the tax rheotric out there. Just responding to you directly because of your pay grade comment, which is also true of me.

BTW, miss you in the college foots forum.....i swore I would never play Unders, but some of those systems you have passed on in the past have been cool to follow.

All the best :toast:

tp....

thanks....believe me i miss betting football more than i thought i would....but have to do the right thing & put those funds to better use...

thanks for the recommendation but i primarily only read bios now (right now reading the life story of groucho marx).as you can see i like light reading...lol.

i seldom go into the capping forums now....good luck this year...
 

Jabberwocky

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The guy is obviously a genius when it comes to investing, but he is a moron when it comes to taxes. If he really thinks he does not pay enough taxes, why does he not just pay what he thinks he owes. Go ahead and send the government an extra billion every year Buffet.

Yeah, he is a moron. I think the point that is being missed by some is that he is pointing out a fallacy in the SYSTEM whereby he can pay a lower percentage of his "income" than his secretary by taking the vast bulk of "income" in form of tax free dividend yields. Him giving all of his wealth to the government would do nothing to solve the fundamental bias of the SYSTEM.

On the subject of estate tax, he himself has chosen to give his money away to charity and not to his children so that they will make it on their own merits and not be lazy, useless aristocrats living off his success.
 
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smurphy

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If you read about the history of the estate tax, you get a good perspective on why it was introduced and the benefits it has provided. I believe this tax has served the nation very well and see no reason why it should ever be abolished.

I agree with Cie that it makes sense to raise minimum brackets - that's just logical given inflation.

It's interesting - Carnegie was one of the major proponents of this tax when it was created and he was also just about the wealthiest person in the US. Some people had and still have a sense of common good that overrides personal excessive greed.
 

roc612

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I see a lot of Law and Order-esque cases dominating the tabloid headlines come 2011.

The TV media will love it. Nancy Grace just got some wood thinking about it.

Maybe I'm just being morbid :shrug:

Cie......i agree with your breakdown there.....one reason this became such a big issue is that it never was really adjusted to reflect modern times and incomes......dont think there is much true division about making up to $5 million per couple/family exempt.

smurphy, chadman.....thanks for the kind words....every now and then a cogent thought does spring from my head, must be the Lake Erie drinking water here near Toledo. I appreciate your insights as well.

Hedge.....if i were that lucky, I would want my kids to work for their cash.....build their own fortune......the true American way......still, that post inheritance tax bounty they would get, rather than earn, would still give them a big head start toward that end compared to just about everyone else.

Roc......this issue cracks me up because I hear people who work our factory bitch about this all the time even though it never impacts them......it is a wedge issue, of sorts.....if we tailored it to modern times and called it what it really is like a billionaire tax or multi-millionaire tax, instead of the death tax, nobody would be getting their panties in such a bunch....

Toledo- You hit the nail on the head with The play on words agenda that is this country today.
Cute words, phrases and sound bites repeated over and over.Its insulting to those of who see thru this rhetoric.
Comedian George Carlin has exposed the "PC- -hot buzzword-play on words BS much better than me.
Happy Thanksgiving to all of us Madjacks-Roc
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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Hey man!

If you're a reader and enjoy current event type books, try reading Perfectly Legal by David Cay Johnston.

The sub title is "the covert campaign to rig our tax system to benefit the super rich and cheat everybody else."

It is easy to read, meaning, despite its topic, you wont be buried under a heap of numbers.....it was fascinating and a big indictment on how both the powers that be in the R and D parties have squeezed everyday people to benefit the upper, upper, upper class incomes.

Of course, I recomend it to anyone reading this thread or just confused about all the tax rheotric out there. Just responding to you directly because of your pay grade comment, which is also true of me.

BTW, miss you in the college foots forum.....i swore I would never play Unders, but some of those systems you have passed on in the past have been cool to follow.

All the best :toast:

Out of curiousity-Did Johnson have any comment on the 32.4 % of Americans that paid no taxes in 2004 or the top 5% of wage earners that paid over 50% of the taxes.

Somehow I don't see that supporting his--

"the covert campaign to rig our tax system to benefit the super rich and cheat everybody else"

I can see a few areas that I would agree with his arguement but not many.

One inparticular is cap on ssn taxes--
The only projected tax increase that makes sense to me--is Obama's wanting to raise ceiling on ssn tax.Not only would I raise ceiling but might eliminate ceiling--if they promised to use receipts for ssn only and not borrow it for other projects.
 

smurphy

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Dogs, I've been waiting over a year for you to explain exactly how someone making under $20,000 a year is supposed to pay taxes.
 

Chadman

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Dogs, I've been waiting over a year for you to explain exactly how someone making under $20,000 a year is supposed to pay taxes.

Yeah, you know those people who are working, and not taking handouts, those kind of people. The ones that have to pay daycare, health care, insurance, etc., or make tough decisions not to do them because they simply can't afford it. They should pay more in taxes, I guess...that would make our country much better off in some people's minds.

The people who are dramatically escalating the money they are making at breathtaking levels are overly taxed and are enduring a repressive system...and should pay less. The people who can't afford the basics who do work hard and have the tough decisions that the others don't give a second thought to should pay more.

What's confusing about his position again? Clear as glass, I think. Hey, most of those folks are black and only care about themselves, so that's important, as has been noted, too. It's all about fairness, smurph. Reality really doesn't enter into it, as long as the 'po folk finally step up. Those kids who cruise through until the trust fund drops $6.6 mil into their laps are the ones dealing with the REAL tough situation.
 

AR182

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Dogs, I've been waiting over a year for you to explain exactly how someone making under $20,000 a year is supposed to pay taxes.


maybe somebody can explain something to me....

why don't people,who earn $20,000 a year, & have difficulty making ends meet take a 2nd job or 3rd job if need be ?

my father (my mother also worked) did it when i was a kid & when i was in college i had 3 jobs (waiter,cab driver,math tutor) to pay for tuition & other expenses....why can't other people do it ?

i just don't understand this mentality of feeling sorry for healthy people not earning enough money....

i would like to hear what i'm missing about this...
 

Chadman

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AR, I don't think you're missing anything about this, nor do I think your point is wrong for many people. I remember working three jobs (one full time) just after college, and have worked two a few times.

I can remember being poor enough to qualify for assistance, and not taking it because I felt "too proud" to take it. It wasn't a big deal to me, I just remember how hard my parents worked and I could not really fathom taking things like that. It certainly would have made things easier for me, but I just didn't want that outlook.

The thing is, there are no absolutes. I think about single parents, or parents who don't make a lot of money, that don't have help in watching their children and have to pay for daycare. Daycare costs are very expensive these days and often are as expensive as the job you could choose to work at as a second (or even first) job. What do you do then? And what kind of household do you provide by working all the time and not being there for your children at all? And then, you get ridiculed for poor parenting by those looking for blame for things like crime, drug abuse, etc.

NO DOUBT there are lazy people who take advantage of the system. We should try to minimize their ability to do that. Or at the very least limit it. Make them work for it, service programs, that kind of thing. There could be some really creative things done along these lines, which could help everyone involved.

But there are some that really have a hard time doing what you suggest, for many reasons. It's not an absolute situation in most cases, for all.

And, what does this really have to do with this bracket of people paying a percentage of their small incomes in taxes? It not really about feeling sorry for them, is it? It's about common sense and an ability to pay, isn't it?
 

smurphy

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AR, you are COMPLETELY missing the point. Nobody is feeling sorry for people not making much money or claiming they shouldn't work every bit as much as what can sustain them and their families.

At the lower wages, even with multiple jobs - there is no logical way for that pay scale to pay taxes. When you make under 20 grand you are essentially poor. At that point, taxes begin to erode money for necessities.

Your mom and dad both worked? Wow. You had jobs in college??? No way. How brave of you. ...And I;'m guessing that those college jobs did not add up to enough for you to owe taxes on them. Right?

See, it's always been that way - that when your income is low enough, you either don't pay at all or get refunded. DTB is complaining essentially that now there are too many people not making enough money to be taxed. He is so backwards in his thinking that he doesn't understand that he hurts his own arguments with these statistics. More and more are making less and less. It's not from lack of working - unemployment figures show that. It's because 33% of all jobs pay at or near minimum wage. Many people work their ass off and start moving up the payscale, but these low paying jobs continue to take up a higher percentage of the overall workforce.
 

smurphy

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And, what does this really have to do with this bracket of people paying a percentage of their small incomes in taxes? It not really about feeling sorry for them, is it? It's about common sense and an ability to pay, isn't it?

AR twisted the argument in a different direction. Don't fall for it!
 

AR182

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AR, I don't think you're missing anything about this, nor do I think your point is wrong for many people. I remember working three jobs (one full time) just after college, and have worked two a few times.

I can remember being poor enough to qualify for assistance, and not taking it because I felt "too proud" to take it. It wasn't a big deal to me, I just remember how hard my parents worked and I could not really fathom taking things like that. It certainly would have made things easier for me, but I just didn't want that outlook.

The thing is, there are no absolutes. I think about single parents, or parents who don't make a lot of money, that don't have help in watching their children and have to pay for daycare. Daycare costs are very expensive these days and often are as expensive as the job you could choose to work at as a second (or even first) job. What do you do then? And what kind of household do you provide by working all the time and not being there for your children at all? And then, you get ridiculed for poor parenting by those looking for blame for things like crime, drug abuse, etc.

NO DOUBT there are lazy people who take advantage of the system. We should try to minimize their ability to do that. Or at the very least limit it. Make them work for it, service programs, that kind of thing. There could be some really creative things done along these lines, which could help everyone involved.

But there are some that really have a hard time doing what you suggest, for many reasons. It's not an absolute situation in most cases, for all.

And, what does this really have to do with this bracket of people paying a percentage of their small incomes in taxes? It not really about feeling sorry for them, is it? It's about common sense and an ability to pay, isn't it?

thanks for your post chad....

sorry i don't feel sorry for people having kids & then not earning enough money to support them...how about people taking some responsibility....don't have children if you can't afford them....isn't that a novel approach ?

as i mentioned before, i am not really good understanding tax brackets & what loopholes are out there....all i know is that i have never worried about paying my fair share of taxes....however i don't fault people finding loopholes to avoid paying whatever it is that they're supposed to pay...as long as what they are doing is legal. people who have problems with it should try to elect people who will tighten those loopholes....and i don't think it is fair to punish people for becoming successful....seems unamerican to me...
 

AR182

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AR, you are COMPLETELY missing the point. Nobody is feeling sorry for people not making much money or claiming they shouldn't work every bit as much as what can sustain them and their families.

At the lower wages, even with multiple jobs - there is no logical way for that pay scale to pay taxes. When you make under 20 grand you are essentially poor. At that point, taxes begin to erode money for necessities.

Your mom and dad both worked? Wow. You had jobs in college??? No way. How brave of you. ...And I;'m guessing that those college jobs did not add up to enough for you to owe taxes on them. Right?

See, it's always been that way - that when your income is low enough, you either don't pay at all or get refunded. DTB is complaining essentially that now there are too many people not making enough money to be taxed. He is so backwards in his thinking that he doesn't understand that he hurts his own arguments with these statistics. More and more are making less and less. It's not from lack of working - unemployment figures show that. It's because 33% of all jobs pay at or near minimum wage. Many people work their ass off and start moving up the payscale, but these low paying jobs continue to take up a higher percentage of the overall workforce.


believe me it's not the first time that i have missed the point....:142smilie :142smilie

but be nice....i didn't post about my parents or me working 3 jobs to show off....i'm of the belief that you do what is necessary to get the job done...if it takes 2 or even 3 jobs to pick yourself up from the ranks of the poor...you do it...& not look for handouts....but that's just me & apparently chad also.
 

smurphy

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believe me it's not the first time that i have missed the point....:142smilie :142smilie

but be nice....i didn't post about my parents or me working 3 jobs to show off....i'm of the belief that you do what is necessary to get the job done...if it takes 2 or even 3 jobs to pick yourself up from the ranks of the poor...you do it...& not look for handouts....but that's just me & apparently chad also.

This tax argument isn't about handouts. I am very proud of both you and your parents, by the way. You are a constant source of inspiration for me and my eventual family.

How much in taxes did you pay while going to college? I'm going to guess 0, which makes you an enemy of DTB and put you in the ranks of the people being supported by the tax payers. You really need to question DTB about this stuff - he is the one that has a problem with your way of life. See, it's not about how hard you work - it's about how much you make. It doesn't matter how many jobs you have, if you can't make enough to get you above the growing % of non-tax burden/Earned Income Credit element then you are a burden on society. Nevermind that you work 60 hours of thankless dish washing, mopping, scrubbing, picking type work - the point is you don't make enough $$$ so you are scum.
 

Chadman

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By the same token, I married a woman who did benefit from assistance when younger in life, had a child at a young age (instead of aborting him) and stuck with her dream of becoming an attorney. I honestly had some problems with the assistance part, but I saw firsthand how it helped make a better life for someone who is both very successful and a terrific parent. Not to mention paying quite a bit in taxes now, and taking an active role in some community activities - working with prospective future attorneys and teaching them what hard work can accomplish.

Now, some would argue the value of being and becoming an attorney, but that's a thread for another day...:142smilie

Again, there are no absolutes. There are "good" and "bad" people at all levels. There are people who work hard and people who don't at all income levels. But I really find it difficult to feel that the current tax system is overbearing or punishing to people who are able to work hard and make more money than anyone ever has - in large part THANKS to the taxes that they pay which creates and maintains the environment that allows them to be successful - AND pass that success on to their heirs. And I've yet to see any real give on the conservative side here to show they are ready to step up and pay more, or accept cuts in things that they personally believe in. Maybe if that EVER happened, we could get somewhere.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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Dogs, I've been waiting over a year for you to explain exactly how someone making under $20,000 a year is supposed to pay taxes.

So your telling me you believe 30% of Americans make less than $20,000 ?

--and in answer to your question on those making $20,000 I say yes.

my reasoning-- if I can read this tax schedule--by law if you make $20,000 you owe taxes--believe it shows the 30% paying no taxes make much less than $20,000.
http://www.irs.gov/formspubs/article/0,,id=150856,00.html
 
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