WE ARE! IN DENIAL!

[fatdaddycool]

For the record I do not think the statue should be taken down.

and for the record....again..........I don't care either way. The scandal itself will cause all the damage that Penn State will ever want or be able to recover from for a long time. A very long time. People will remember it for as long as they live and judging from the response on here alone...the school's recruitment can kiss that shit goodbye for a long long time. JMO

 

[gjn23]

You mean precedent? This means what? Dude, do you somehow think that there is a right and wrong side here? Are you really so presumptuous and narcissistic to think that because you found an article that has absolutely zero substance other than speculation and a very obtuse quote that you are somehow correct and subsequently the voice of reason or something? Let me make one thing vehemently clear, just because the NCAA president made a quote does not constitute action or even an impending action that was not already known. The NCAA is doing it's own INDEPENDENT INVESTIGATION (duh duh duh dummmm I know how that is like the right hand on the bible all knowing truth thing with you) so what? Even if they impose sanctions it doesn't prove anything?!!? You still don't get it.... do you?

Earlier you spelled out how you thought that this becomes a football issue.

"as soon as those in charge of the FOOTBALL program and those in charge of the UNIVERSITY decided it was better to cover up the scandal to protect the program vs going to the authorities to protect innocent kids... it became an issue of a football program gone unchecked."

I am curious as to why you didn't identify the rest of the programs at Penn State. It seems that you only look to punish the men's football program. Since the university president and vice president as well as the board etc... had a hand in all this, all must be punished equally right?!?! that is what you want correct? That all the student athletes be punished and Penn State be given the death penalty correct? And by punish I mean that they can transfer to other schools without penalty (which is an absurdly ridiculous oxymoron in the first place but what the hell it isn't my statement to claim I am only quoting all of "humanity" that spoke earlier of this "horror"), lose their scholarships, including those that are on the debate team, the glee club, music students, any science students that are currently on grants while working on their thesis. Just that kind of non penalizing punishment is what I mean. You know because those students won't have to incur any relocation costs, books and registration costs or anything like that, no the death penalty fairy will take care of all that right, because us "high moral types" don't want to nor care to hear about this kind of thing. We can't be bothered with this kind of trivial bs while we will be busy beating our chests for showing the world how much we care about, what was those kids names again? Before you answer, let me refresh your memory as to how you felt a couple hours ago....

in the end, you'll likely get your way and no sanctions will be levied because the ncaa only likes to punish kids and coaches not schools and/or presidents.....beacuse that's who the ncaa is presidents of schools.

That is where you made the connection to the university president being responsible and thus all the programs under his employ must be tainted, and we know that you are completely uncaring for any of these students as you state in the following....

can you find me one time where ncaa sanctions against a "program" DIDNT hurt the current players who had "nothing" to do with the infractions?

and spare me the woe-is-me what are the players going to do.....95% of those football players will get a free ride at another school

So, again I am speculating here but it seems your anger is really only directed at the football program, you call for death to that program and all its players without remorse, and we are having a discussion about the moral integrity of the NCAA's actions or lack thereof when your own moral compass seems to be spinning with the "woe is me" comment?

Funny how you are trying to be a champion for the innocent victims in one sentence and then, almost right after the comma, you are all for making more?!! These are not analogies either just in case you were wondering. You seem to be a bit misguided on the definition is all.

So to be clear, these are all points you made and quotes taken directly from you so with that being said, I will ask again. Is it just the football program you want punished and is it because you didn't like Penn State and JoePa prior to this? Of course we both know that is exactly what it is but I am just curious to see if anyone will actually man up and admit that they may be just a bit biased on the subject. Cue the the hero or the chump (that's you) in the answer to this question.

Hope that helps,
FDC

1) you need help
2) umm yeah you got me, i only think paterno and psu should be punished becasue i didnt like him before, lost a bet on penn state or am a big time fan of pitt, or ohio state, etc
3) i really like mark emmeret the newspaper reporter and think what his thoughts are mean ALOT...as much as say....the ncaa president who will eventually issue the penalty....what's that guys name?
4) did i mention you need help?

 

[buddy]

(Pgh Post Gazette ~ Letter to the editor)

It's nonsense to argue NCAA death penalty is unfair to PSU

July 16, 2012 11:56 pm

I am writing in response to Ron Cook's column "Fallout Not Over for Reeling Penn State" (July 13).

Mr. Cook's assertion that the Penn State program should not shut down is poorly developed and largely baseless.

He argues that the "death penalty" is unfair because it would unfairly punish athletes who had nothing to do with the scandal.

This position is nonsense.

First, the students would likely be given the opportunity to transfer to another program.

Second, NCAA sanctions and penalties are often imposed several years after the underlying infraction and routinely affect student athletes who had nothing to do with the original infraction.

If you accept Mr. Cook's fairness argument, you would basically be eliminating the NCAA's ability to enforce its own rules.

Mr. Cook also asserts that the "death penalty" isn't needed to change the culture at Penn State because: 1) the legal ramifications of the Sandusky case should accomplish that, and 2) the Penn State culture is no different than that of other major football universities.

While the first point may have merit, the second point is borderline dangerous.

It's analogous to saying, "I may drink and drive/beat my wife, but a lot of people do it, so we shouldn't worry about it."

Finally, while not mentioned in his column, Mr. Cook argued on a nightly sports show that the "death penalty" is inappropriate because the Sandusky scandal is a university scandal, not a football scandal.

The football program functioned as an enabler for Jerry Sandusky.

It provided him with access to the athletic facilities and sporting events that greatly enhanced his ability to find new victims.

The argument that this isn't a football scandal has absolutely no merit.

JEFF KESSEL
Robinson

 

[fatdaddycool]

1) you need help
2) umm yeah you got me, i only think paterno and psu should be punished becasue i didnt like him before, lost a bet on penn state or am a big time fan of pitt, or ohio state, etc
3) i really like mark emmeret the newspaper reporter and think what his thoughts are mean ALOT...as much as say....the ncaa president who will eventually issue the penalty....what's that guys name?
4) did i mention you need help?

Read the other post from the other Arizona fan. Yeah, I got it, I was right. Thanks. Why do I need help? I am curious? Or is that just another inane opinion of yours in another field that you have absolutely zero expertise in yet insist that your opinion on the subject be the only one that has any validity?

What kind of help and also how did you come to this hypothesis? What are you basing this statement on? You stated it as if you have some knowledge on the subject. People disagree with people from Arizona all the time dude, no reason to make dumbass statements because you are wrong. Chin up pal, you won't always be wrong. You will get something right sooner or later, try not to be judgmental and let the situation unfold a little bit, get some facts before you make more ignorant statements. That is just a guess though, so what is it? Symptoms and such? Don't put words in my mouth either.

I must say.....you really told me!!! I don't care who mark Emmeret is and that makes you correct......sure it does. Just saw a video with Tom Skerrit or whoever on it and strangely enough he said that there has not even been any discussions yet as to what the NCAA "judge, jury and executioner" may or may not be able to do. I thought he "posted" an article saying please see ASU fans bob and GJN for what we have to do because their opinion is the only one that counts.

Dude,
I am actually getting bored with this. I only came into this thread because I don't agree with the posters that think that they have the right to form an opinion, post it, and then call everyone else that doesn't blow them and agree deluded. Happy valley Lemmings, etc... Do you know how many things I can go back into and look at to point out all the shit you fucked up or got wrong? You are absolutely right, I have no idea what Emmeret's name was and didn't care then or now. I am not a college football fan for the hundredth time. Why should I know who he is?

I see you didn't address any of the inconsistencies I pointed out last time that you made earlier in this thread except to say I need help because I don't see it your way. That is exactly what I meant from the very beginning. You can't state that the fact it is PS or JoePa has ABSOLUTELY ZERO BEARING IN YOUR OPINION because that is a total lie. I don't think it is the only reason you feel the way you do but it certainly is part of it. Instead of saying how fucked up I am why wouldn't you just be honest and say something like..."Okay, I don't like the guy or the school but so what I am still entitled to my opinion". At least you wouldn't have to make statements like the last few you made and everyone would appreciate your honesty.

Hope that helps,
FDC

 

[azbob]

1. Re: Ray Lewis which has nothing to do with this topic but, let's give it a try, "Lewis' attorneys, Don Samuel and Ed Garland, of the Atlanta law firm Garland, Samuel & Loeb, negotiated a plea agreement with Howard, the Fulton County District Attorney, where the murder charges against Lewis were dismissed in exchange for his testimony against Oakley and Sweeting, and his guilty plea to a misdemeanor charge of obstruction of justice. " ESPN 9-28-2010.

2. I figured you didn't graduate from PS but, it is always amazing to me that educated people can't express themselves without obsentities. An English Lit major huh...oh my.

3. And please hit the pillow tonight thinking of me and be assured I have contempt for OJ Simpson...what the heck does that mean but, we are living in your delusion at this point.

I'm willing to let the process play out. Your comments aren't really adding to the discourse but, they are certainly entertaining. Given that, we could probably have a few laughs together some day looking back on how you keep the conversation going with your dunderheaded, outrageous comments. If that is your intent, well done.

If you truly believe this stuff, you really do need some help and I think I need a restraining order because you may be nuts.

 

[gjn23]

Read the other post from the other Arizona fan. Yeah, I got it, I was right. Thanks. Why do I need help? I am curious? Or is that just another inane opinion of yours in another field that you have absolutely zero expertise in yet insist that your opinion on the subject be the only one that has any validity?

What kind of help and also how did you come to this hypothesis? What are you basing this statement on? You stated it as if you have some knowledge on the subject. People disagree with people from Arizona all the time dude, no reason to make dumbass statements because you are wrong. Chin up pal, you won't always be wrong. You will get something right sooner or later, try not to be judgmental and let the situation unfold a little bit, get some facts before you make more ignorant statements. That is just a guess though, so what is it? Symptoms and such? Don't put words in my mouth either.

I must say.....you really told me!!! I don't care who mark Emmeret is and that makes you correct......sure it does. Just saw a video with Tom Skerrit or whoever on it and strangely enough he said that there has not even been any discussions yet as to what the NCAA "judge, jury and executioner" may or may not be able to do. I thought he "posted" an article saying please see ASU fans bob and GJN for what we have to do because their opinion is the only one that counts.

Dude,
I am actually getting bored with this. I only came into this thread because I don't agree with the posters that think that they have the right to form an opinion, post it, and then call everyone else that doesn't blow them and agree deluded. Happy valley Lemmings, etc... Do you know how many things I can go back into and look at to point out all the shit you fucked up or got wrong? You are absolutely right, I have no idea what Emmeret's name was and didn't care then or now. I am not a college football fan for the hundredth time. Why should I know who he is?

I see you didn't address any of the inconsistencies I pointed out last time that you made earlier in this thread except to say I need help because I don't see it your way. That is exactly what I meant from the very beginning. You can't state that the fact it is PS or JoePa has ABSOLUTELY ZERO BEARING IN YOUR OPINION because that is a total lie. I don't think it is the only reason you feel the way you do but it certainly is part of it. Instead of saying how fucked up I am why wouldn't you just be honest and say something like..."Okay, I don't like the guy or the school but so what I am still entitled to my opinion". At least you wouldn't have to make statements like the last few you made and everyone would appreciate your honesty.

Hope that helps,
FDC

why do you need help?

you responded with a 1000 word diatribe to my posting of a link from an artice where the ncaa president says the death penalty may be in play......that's it.....you've gone off the deep end jumping thru hoops telling us how assenine we are, how people in arizona can disagree (huh?) how we hated paterno before, how we lost a bet on penns state and want revenge, blah blah blah

get your meds out or shorten your responses, i honestly dont read much more that the first sentence

did i spell everything correctlee this time???

 

[fatdaddycool]

why do you need help?

you responded with a 1000 word diatribe to my posting of a link from an artice where the ncaa president says the death penalty may be in play......that's it.....you've gone off the deep end jumping thru hoops telling us how assenine we are, how people in arizona can disagree (huh?) how we hated paterno before, how we lost a bet on penns state and want revenge, blah blah blah

get your meds out or shorten your responses, i honestly dont read much more that the first sentence

did i spell everything correctlee this time???

I never said anything about gambling debts, that was marine. I said dislike of Penn State is part of the reason and you can admit it or deny it that is your opinion. Right so you didn't say anything at all about me being a Southern racists, Penn State lover or loyalist or whatever, happy valley lemming blah blah blah.
I know you didn't read past the first sentence, that was evident. I don't take any meds.

No, you did not even make a single complete sentence without a grammatical error, spelling error or both. Should have gone to Penn State.

Just saying.....

 

[marine]

4. And we have the voice of reason, James Carville, quoted as saying let the trial lawyers have at it. Of course, his democratic buddies will love this as all of the dollars paid out will not come from the university but, rather from the taxpayers of PA.

Plenty of people in this thread have already stated that it is perfectly acceptable for people not actually involved in the rape of children to bear the brunt of the punishment. Sometimes the innocent get punished by the acts of a few individuals.

So the taxpayers of the state take a hit in the wallet too. Sometimes the innocent get punished. All of a sudden it's bad now?

 

[fatdaddycool]

1. Re: Ray Lewis which has nothing to do with this topic but, let's give it a try, "Lewis' attorneys, Don Samuel and Ed Garland, of the Atlanta law firm Garland, Samuel & Loeb, negotiated a plea agreement with Howard, the Fulton County District Attorney, where the murder charges against Lewis were dismissed in exchange for his testimony against Oakley and Sweeting, and his guilty plea to a misdemeanor charge of obstruction of justice. " ESPN 9-28-2010.

2. I figured you didn't graduate from PS but, it is always amazing to me that educated people can't express themselves without obsentities. An English Lit major huh...oh my.

3. And please hit the pillow tonight thinking of me and be assured I have contempt for OJ Simpson...what the heck does that mean but, we are living in your delusion at this point.

I'm willing to let the process play out. Your comments aren't really adding to the discourse but, they are certainly entertaining. Given that, we could probably have a few laughs together some day looking back on how you keep the conversation going with your dunderheaded, outrageous comments. If that is your intent, well done.

If you truly believe this stuff, you really do need some help and I think I need a restraining order because you may be nuts.

The Ray Lewis thing stemmed from your earlier comments. The O.J. thing was just to see if you were selectively forgiving of heinous crimes according to your loyalties and what ever sort of moral hierarchy you subscribe to, and I think that it is fairly obvious that you are. You have called me ignorant, idiotic, dunderheaded, racist, mentally unstable and because I cursed at you, once again you are at the top of the mountain on that moral high ground. Congratulations. You must be correct now in all your assumptions, name calling, false information and misleading posts will now be chronicled and enacted into law. You still don't get it in the least bit. Your statements are solely your opinion and although you will not admit it there is a certain amount of bias and favoritism in your judgment process and yours is not the only correct answer, yet you insisted that I was a Penn State lover simply because I have my own opinion and disagreed with yours. Literature isn't the only thing I can apply intelligent thought to and I curse all the fucking time. So what.

Hope that helps,
FDC

 

[marine]

I'll give you all something to cheer about. It kind of hit me earlier as I was sitting down and eating dinner and discussing a multitude of topics about right and wrong with my children and encouraging some independent thought from them.

I'll stop posting about this. It's non-sensical to continue the dialogue.

There's two distinctly different arguements going on within this thread, which I think may be what is causing most of the anger here.

We have one group arguing:

RAPE HAPPENED! Why are you not cheering for them to cut off heads like all the rest of us are?! RAPE HAPPENED! How on earth can you be so ignorant. RAPE HAPPENED! DEMAND that they cut off heads RIGHT FUCKING NOW!

And we have a second, smaller group arguing:

RAPE HAPPENED! Actions have already been taken to stop those rapes from continuing. Let's take the time to make sure that we have the right heads to cut off.


With that being said, I'd like to give some props to fdc for understanding exactly where I was coming from in my opinions. I'm pretty sure that he and I aren't even in agreement on what we think the best solution is either. But, I applaud him for having the ability to separate his personal emotions from the arguement. Ooh rah tuefelshunde.

Do I condone rape? No, of course not.
Do I think it's probably a smart thing that once the rapes have been stopped, they take a little bit of time to make sure they understand everything that happened, the scope of it all, and dole out an appropriate punishment that deals with the guilty parties - appropriately? Yes.

Rape is a very emotional subject, that invokes a lot of feelings from people. Very rarely is it a smart idea to allow emotional decision making to lead the way because you allow your own personal opinions to cloud your response and the response then becomes more about "revenge" than justice -
Your version of "justice" becomes a selfish act, and can adversely affect a much wider circle than you originally thought because of the narrow vision you had while handing out "justice". It is when that version of "justice" begins to affect the people not even affiliated of the crime that you have crossed into an area that you are now the one guilty of creating hardship and unjust actions towards innocents - just like the person you were punishing.

 

[UGA12]

:00x24 :00x24 :00x24 :00x24 :00x24 :00x24 :00x24 :00x24

 

[buddy]

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories...-programs-fate-is-still-up-in-air-645125/?p=0

 

[ImFeklhr]

I say keep it simple.

Anyone who had knowledge of the rapes and did nothing should be criminally prosecuted if the law dictates, and should be fired and lose pensions.
Anyone who had no direct knowledge should learn a hard focking lesson and move on with their lives.

Statue should stay up just because removing statues seems so "thought police-ish" to me.
Seems un-American. Even statues of people who did bad things can teach us a lesson. Put a plaque up on the base of the statue and tell the story of his football program AND the scandal. Don't hide from life.

People are flawed creatures and everyone has a skeleton in their closet. What exactly is the litmus test for a statue anyway? What makes you worthy or unworthy? Could spend a lifetime just on that one question. Let it go.

Nothing we can do will un-rape those boys. Sandusky is in jail, Paterno is dead, I am assuming other school officials have lost their job (haven't really followed the whole story that closely).

Anything beyond punishing those directly responsible is a misguided attempt at catharsis. Hoping it will make us feel better. It won't, or if it does, it's a shallow way to feel better about something.

Do things to prevent this from happening again, and frankly, collectively admit to ourselves that bad things happen in life, and human nature suggests that most of us are capable of evil and good, greed and charity, often all at the same time.

 

[gardenweasel]

I say keep it simple.

Anyone who had knowledge of the rapes and did nothing should be criminally prosecuted if the law dictates, and should be fired and lose pensions.
Anyone who had no direct knowledge should learn a hard focking lesson and move on with their lives.

Statue should stay up just because removing statues seems so "thought police-ish" to me.
Seems un-American. Even statues of people who did bad things can teach us a lesson. Put a plaque up on the base of the statue and tell the story of his football program AND the scandal. Don't hide from life.

People are flawed creatures and everyone has a skeleton in their closet. What exactly is the litmus test for a statue anyway? What makes you worthy or unworthy? Could spend a lifetime just on that one question. Let it go.

Nothing we can do will un-rape those boys. Sandusky is in jail, Paterno is dead, I am assuming other school officials have lost their job (haven't really followed the whole story that closely).

Anything beyond punishing those directly responsible is a misguided attempt at catharsis. Hoping it will make us feel better. It won't, or if it does, it's a shallow way to feel better about something.

Do things to prevent this from happening again, and frankly, collectively admit to ourselves that bad things happen in life, and human nature suggests that most of us are capable of evil and good, greed and charity, often all at the same time.

beautifully said....if i decide to have another son i am considering naming him imfeklhr(well,it`ll be a toss-up between imfeklhr and "spawn"):thumb: .....

 

[homedog]

Based on previous posts I've read, marine likes it in the ass. It shouldn't be any surprise that he is taking the position he is taking.

 

[UGA12]

:wall:

Based on previous posts I've read, marine likes it in the ass. It shouldn't be any surprise that he is taking the position he is taking.

 

[BobbyBlueChip]

Based on previous posts I've read, marine likes it in the ass. It shouldn't be any surprise that he is taking the position he is taking.

At the end of the day, no matter what position he takes, he's right. . . .always. . . . and he's proud of what he's done he's done in the past.

So proud that he wants to take it in the ass. . . . . . and disclose that on a public forum. . . . .I mean, you don't really have to be Freud to figure out the internal battles that he's going through everyday.

 

[saint]

People are flawed creatures and everyone has a skeleton in their closet. What exactly is the litmus test for a statue anyway? What makes you worthy or unworthy? Could spend a lifetime just on that one question. Let it go.

.

yes, but not everyone spends a lifetime crafting themselves as the beacon on morality and goodness as Paterno did. That is what makes it different.

 

[The Sponge]

Based on previous posts I've read, marine likes it in the ass. It shouldn't be any surprise that he is taking the position he is taking.

i was wondering who was gonna say that :mj07: Homedog never thought it would be you. :mj07:

 

[Hashish]

I say keep it simple.

Anyone who had knowledge of the rapes and did nothing should be criminally prosecuted if the law dictates, and should be fired and lose pensions.
Anyone who had no direct knowledge should learn a hard focking lesson and move on with their lives.

Statue should stay up just because removing statues seems so "thought police-ish" to me.
Seems un-American. Even statues of people who did bad things can teach us a lesson. Put a plaque up on the base of the statue and tell the story of his football program AND the scandal. Don't hide from life.

People are flawed creatures and everyone has a skeleton in their closet. What exactly is the litmus test for a statue anyway? What makes you worthy or unworthy? Could spend a lifetime just on that one question. Let it go.

Nothing we can do will un-rape those boys. Sandusky is in jail, Paterno is dead, I am assuming other school officials have lost their job (haven't really followed the whole story that closely).

Anything beyond punishing those directly responsible is a misguided attempt at catharsis. Hoping it will make us feel better. It won't, or if it does, it's a shallow way to feel better about something.

Do things to prevent this from happening again, and frankly, collectively admit to ourselves that bad things happen in life, and human nature suggests that most of us are capable of evil and good, greed and charity, often all at the same time.

+1

Only thing I would add is that a pigeon feed vendor should be installed next to the statue so that it always has a nice coat.