Wheres the beef?

DOGS THAT BARK

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Sure haven't heard much chirping on economy of late :)

Unemployment now below 5%--Market nearing all time high--lowest taxes in decades--have had lowest interest rates in decades-lowest core inflation rates (averaging two percent per year) in the past 40 years --Homeownership reached an all-time high and mortgage rates reached their lowest level in decades.

If your not better off than you were- why?
 

hammer1

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Must be a News and World information Blackout in BG!

Must be a News and World information Blackout in BG!

I dont have the time to get into how bad things are for more and more Americans these days and how great it was 30 -40 years ago but this article mentions a few. U are obviously one of the fat cats that got lucky as am i but that doesnt excuse u from being stupid. But unfortunately "Ya Cant Fix Stupid!" Dont take it personal that I called u Stupid... I call my Right Wing Bible Thumping Born Again Relatives stupid too as I do Mr. Bush.......His case however there is no arguement.

Many Entry-Level Workers Feel Pinch of Rough Market






By STEVEN GREENHOUSE
Published: September 4, 2006
This Labor Day, the 45 million young people in the nation?s work force face a choppy job market in which entry-level wages have often trailed inflation, making it hard for many to cope with high housing costs and rising college debt loads.

Skip to next paragraph

Marie-Susanne Langille for The New York Times
?A few people I work with are living at home with their parents; some are even on food stamps. I was hoping to buy a house this year, but there?s just no way I can swing it.? JOHN ARNOLD, 28-year-old Caterpillar factory worker

Entry-level wages for college and high school graduates fell by more than 4 percent from 2001 to 2005, after factoring in inflation, according to an analysis of Labor Department data by the Economic Policy Institute. In addition, the percentage of college graduates receiving health and pension benefits in their entry-level jobs has dropped sharply.

Some labor experts say wage stagnation and the sharp increase in housing costs over the past decade have delayed workers ages 20 to 35 from buying their first homes.

?People are getting married later, they?re having children later, and they?re buying houses later,? said Cecilia E. Rouse, an economist at Princeton University and a co-editor of a forthcoming book on the economics of early adulthood. ?There?s been a lengthening of the transition to adulthood, and it is very possible that what has happened in the economy is leading to some of these changes.?

Census Bureau data released last week underlined the difficulties for young workers, showing that median income for families with at least one parent age 25 to 34 fell $3,009 from 2000 to 2005, sliding to $48,405, a 5.9 percent drop, after having jumped 12 percent in the late 1990?s.

Worsening the financial crunch, far more college graduates are borrowing to pay for their education, and the amount borrowed has jumped by more than 50 percent in recent years, largely because of soaring tuition.

In 2004, 50 percent of graduating seniors borrowed some money for college, with their debt load averaging $19,000, Dr. Rouse said. That was a sharp increase from 1993, when 35 percent of seniors borrowed for college and their debt averaged $12,500, in today?s dollars.

Even though the economy has grown strongly in recent years, wages for young workers, especially college graduates, have been depressed by several factors, including the end of the high-tech boom and the trend of sending jobs overseas. From 2001 to 2005, entry-level wages for male college graduates fell by 7.3 percent, to $19.72 an hour, while wages for female graduates declined 3.5 percent, to $17.08, according to the Economic Policy Institute, a liberal research group.

?In a weak labor market, younger workers do the worst,? said Lawrence Mishel, the institute?s president. ?Young workers are on the cutting edge of experiencing all the changes in the economy.?

Lawrence F. Katz, a labor economist at Harvard, said plenty of slack remained in the job market for young workers.

The percentage of young adults who are working has dropped since 2000 largely because many have grown discouraged and stopped looking for work. This has happened even though the unemployment rate, which counts only people looking for work, has fallen to 4.4 percent for those ages 25 to 34. It is 8.2 percent for workers ages 20 to 24.

?Any way you slice the data, the labor market has been pretty weak the past five years,? Dr. Katz said. ?But hotshot young people coming out of top universities have done fine, just like top-notch executives have.?

In a steep drop over a short time, 64 percent of college graduates received health coverage in entry-level jobs in 2005, down from 71 percent five years earlier. As employers grapple with fast-rising health costs, many companies have reduced health coverage, with those cutbacks sharpest among young workers.

Partly because of the decline in manufacturing jobs that were a ticket to middle-class life, just one-third of workers with high school diplomas receive health coverage in entry-level jobs, down from two-thirds in 1979.

After an extensive job search, Katey Rich, who graduated from Wesleyan University in June, landed a part-time, $14-an-hour job in Manhattan as an editorial assistant at Film Journal International. With one-bedroom apartments often renting for $2,000 a month, Ms. Rich is looking to share an apartment but is staying with a friend?s parents for now. And while she is excited about her new job, she said she was concerned that it did not come with health insurance.

?I?ll have to fend for myself,? said Ms. Rich, who is from Aiken, S.C. ?I have parents who will back me up if things get really rough.?

Mark Zandi, chief economist at Moody?s Economy.com, said it was surprising how deeply young workers were going into debt to maintain the living standards they want.



nation?s personal savings sank below zero last year for the first time since the Depression, meaning Americans spent more than they earned. But for households under 35, the saving rate has plunged to minus 16 percent, which means they are spending 16 percent more than they are earning.

?The post-boomer generation feels very cavalier about saving,? Mr. Zandi said. ?They?ve been very aggressively dis-saving and have borrowed significantly.?

John Arnold, 28, a materials-handling specialist at a Caterpillar factory in Morton, Ill., said he was having a hard time making ends meet. At his factory, Caterpillar has pressured the union to accept a two-tier contract in which newer workers like him will earn a maximum of $13.26 an hour ? $27,000 a year for a full-time worker ? no matter how long they work. For longtime Caterpillar workers in the upper tier, the wage ceiling is often $20 or more an hour.

?A few people I work with are living at home with their parents; some are even on food stamps,? said Mr. Arnold, a Caterpillar worker for seven years. ?I was hoping to buy a house this year, but there?s just no way I can swing it.? With just a high school diploma, he said it was hard to find jobs that paid more.

For men with high school diplomas, entry-level pay fell by 3.3 percent, to $10.93, from 2001 to 2005, according to the Economic Policy Institute. For female high school graduates, entry-level pay fell by 4.9 percent, to $9.08 an hour.

Labor Department officials voiced optimism for young workers, noting that the Bureau of Labor Statistics had projected that 18.9 million net new jobs would be created by 2014.

?The future is bright for young people because the opportunities are out there,? said Mason Bishop, deputy assistant labor secretary for employment and training. ?We want to help them get access to the postsecondary education that enables them to take advantage of the opportunities.?

The wage gap between college-educated and high-school-educated workers has widened greatly, with college graduates earning 45 percent more than high school graduates, up from 23 percent in 1979.

Professor Rouse of Princeton said a college degree added $402,000 to a graduate?s lifetime earnings.

Alex Shayevsky, who graduated from New York University last year, said majoring in business had paid off. Mr. Shayevsky got a job in the bond department of a major investment bank in New York. He earns $65,000, not including a bonus that could be at least half his salary.

?Getting my degree was very valuable,? said Mr. Shayevsky, a 23-year-old from Buffalo Grove, Ill.

Martin Regalia, chief economist for the United States Chamber of Commerce, said young workers would be helped greatly if strong economic growth continued and the labor market tightened further, as happened in the late 1990?s.

Sheldon H. Danziger, a professor of public policy at the University of Michigan, sees a bifurcated labor market for young workers.

?You?re much better off as a young worker today if you?re the child of the well-to-do and you get a good education,? Professor Danziger said, ?and you?re much worse off if you?re a child of a blue-collar worker and you don?t go to college. There?s increasing inequality among young people just as there is increasing inequality among their parents.?
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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Don't mind being called stupid at all as long as its by some Einstein whose rebuttle to low unemployment-taxes-inflation-interest rates ect

---is>Many Entry-Level Workers Feel Pinch of Rough Market :)

We have had unbelievable economy considering 911-Katrina ect--however I do credit this admin for most of it any more than I would for Clinton/Gore inventing the internet.

As I said before don't think there is much any admin can do boost economy but several things they can do to harm it.

My point it -it will be tough to dog this admin for bad economy as it now stands--however things could do about face at any time.

It looks like the GOP might get very lucky on supply/demand of oil being favorable right around Nov.
 
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Chadman

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Would have to take a closer look at your claims, and all of the economic factors taking place right now, to make a good assessment. I do know the housing bubble (artifically created with ridiculously low and supressed interest rates) is popping, and there are many people entering into a very tough time in their lives. Most of Americans are saddled with debt, and have been using credit cards at record levels, which will cause even more hardships moving forward. Interest rates have been going up, our debt levels are at unbelievably high levels and going much higher - which takes about 1/3 of our tax money (or more, now) to pay for - which definitely chokes present and future progress.

Plenty to look at - but you have to take credit for the bad with the good.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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"I do know the housing bubble (artifically created with ridiculously low and supressed interest rates) is popping, and there are many people entering into a very tough time in their lives. Most of Americans are saddled with debt, and have been using credit cards at record levels, which will cause even more hardships moving forward. Interest rates have been going up, our debt levels are at unbelievably high levels and going much higher - which takes about 1/3 of our tax money (or more, now) to pay for - which definitely chokes present and future progress."
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
EVERYONE has had opportunity to buy "affordable" housing-most at lowest rates they will see in their life time--Everyone has had chance to refinance their debt to at least 1/4 to as much as 1/2 or more from their prior interest rate.

IF they are not in better shape than they were their only solution is --http://www.debtorsanonymous.org/
---not the federal gov or any other entity

--any arguement on theses points???
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Smurph Don't know if NASDAQ will ever reach it's previous grossly inflated price.
The dow not far off high of 11722.98 on January 14, 2000
 

Chadman

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Well, I suppose if you mean EVERYONE including the largest increase in below poverty level families in our lifetime, yes. If you mean EVERYONE including those that claimed bankruptcy in larger numbers than ever before, yes.

I know that conservatives think that everyone has the same chance and opportunities in life, but there are others of us that do not think that is the case. There are a helluva lot of people in this country that cannot afford to buy a house, and are much worse off under Bush than they were before he came along. There are many who are using debt they cannot afford to use to finance this housing bubble that you claim everyone could and should take advantage of. The money will come due eventually, much like the debt of this country due to this President and his policies and decisions.

I know you are just dealing with the "haves" in your assessment. Par for the Country Club theory.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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Not dealing with Country club members --but dealing with those that had debt or had previously been on bubble of being able to afford home in past but couldn't quite make it.

Believe it or not it was your Country Club members that were most negatively effected by low interest rates with bulk of them retired with nest full of CD's.

Bankrupcy--With laws changing on filing (making it harder Hurrah for that) everone tried to get under the wire.

When is last time rate of those in poverty declined ?--about the time healthcare cost declined-I assume.
Does any one really expect healthcare cost to decline regardless of whose in?

The past few years have been the best of times for those in lower incomes--whether anyone wants to believe it or not.
 

redsfann

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Why is it that when the "liberal Media" reports totally false and distorted numbers about the economy the right has no problem acknowledging said numbers, but the minute they read something they disagree with, its the "liberal media" spewing lies again?

And, Dogs, while I knew you were completely out of touch with the workings of the US economy, to say that the poor is so much better off with the Fascists in power these last 6 years is just staggering to me.
 

Chadman

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The past few years have been the best of times for those in lower incomes--whether anyone wants to believe it or not.

I really don't know what you are basing this on. Just smacks of "Because I said so.." Here are what I would seem to think the facts are for lower income families as we speak.

There are more lower income families now than when Bush took office.

Healthcare costs have skyrocketed at a higher percentage over the Bush years (not saying that's necessarily Bush's fault, but it is something everyone has to deal with - ESPECIALLY lower income individuals) which take a higher percentage of incomes from low income families that "do their best and try hard"...i.e. maintain insurance.

Gas prices have tripled since Bush took office (not necessarily his fault, but it happened, right?) which take a higher percentage of income from low income families.

The price of any goods that use oil to produce, oil and gas to deliver, etc., are up across the board. The takes a higher percentage of income from low income families.

The Bush administration has taken many steps to reduce "entitlement programs" which go directly to low income families. College LOAN programs have been cut, reduced, eliminated, which reduce the opportunity for low income adults to improve their lives by attending college. Let alone grants, etc.

The national debt has skyrocketed under Bush, and that is at least due in part to his policies - i.e. Iraq. The answer by conservatives is what? Cut entitlement programs more, to cut the deficit. And so it goes.

So, how exactly are the old low income families better off? And how about all the new ones that came about during the Bush policy years?
 

Chadman

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And, to answer your question about the last time poverty rates declined - you need look no further than the Clinton years. Here is an article from The Brookings Institute that measured poverty striken areas both in cities and in rural areas. I sincerely doubt that poverty went up to much in the non-poverty concentrated areas of the US during the 90's...you can check if you care to. Furthermore, I don't remember Health Care costs coming down in the 90's...does anyone else? When was the last time Health Care costs came down? Here's the story:

Stunning Progress, Hidden Problems: The Dramatic Decline of Concentrated Poverty in the 1990s

by Paul A. Jargowsky
May 2003

Study Shows Poverty in U.S. Less Concentrated

Findings

A national analysis of high-poverty neighborhoods, and the concentration of poor individuals in those neighborhoods, in 1990 and 2000 indicates that:

The number of people living in high-poverty neighborhoods?where the poverty rate is 40 percent or higher?declined by a dramatic 24 percent, or 2.5 million people, in the 1990s. This improvement marked a significant turnaround from the 1970-1990 period, during which the population in high-poverty neighborhoods doubled.

The steepest declines in high-poverty neighborhoods occurred in metropolitan areas in the Midwest and South. In Detroit, for instance, the number of people living in high-poverty neighborhoods dropped nearly 75 percent over the decade.

Concentrated poverty?the share of the poor living in high-poverty neighborhoods?declined among all racial and ethnic groups, especially African Americans. The share of poor black individuals living in high-poverty neighborhoods declined from 30 percent in 1990 to 19 percent in 2000.

The number of high-poverty neighborhoods declined in rural areas and central cities, but suburbs experienced almost no change. A number of older, inner-ring suburbs around major metropolitan areas actually experienced increases in poverty over the decade, though poverty rates there generally remain well below 40 percent.

While the 1990s brought a landmark reversal of decades of increasingly concentrated poverty, the recent economic downturn and the weakening state of many older suburbs underscore that the trend may reverse once again without continued efforts to promote economic and residential opportunity for low-income families.
 

Chadman

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And, noted in a large percentage of Google stories regarding poverty rate measurements:

From AP story:

The last decline in the poverty rate was in 2000, during the Clinton administration, when it dropped to 11.3 percent.
 

Nick Douglas

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DTB, you're using circular logic. You say that with conservatives in power the economy has greatly improved for people who work hard. DUH!

That's the whole conservative mindset. They believe that the ability to work hard is not a natural talent, but somehow is inate in all people -- whether they "choose" to work hard or not.

The liberal line of thinking recognizes that it is human nature to do what is necessary to survive -- and little else. People like me believe that greater societal harmony comes from allowing a greater number of people to have reasonable means while still allowing overachievers to thrive.

If you just look at raw economic numbers, the conservative line of thinking will usually win. That's in large part because trickle-down economics will allow a small percentage of people to get breathtakingly rich while the rest struggle.

Now, all that having been said, I will give credit where it's due and say that Bush has made a number of great moves to achieve his domestic economic goals. I would even go so far as to say that trying to dispute that fact is foolish. My counterpoint is simply that Bush has the wrong goals in mind.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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And, Dogs, while I knew you were completely out of touch with the workings of the US economy, to say that the poor is so much better off with the Fascists in power these last 6 years is just staggering to me.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I'm always willing to listen Redsfan--instead of general opinion give me some specific items how they are worse off.

Agian here are 4 biggies why they are better off

Taxs breaks (if they pay any)
Were able to reduce their debt through lower interest rates.
Were able to afford obtain 1st home at lowest rates in 40 years.
Over 95% of Americans employed (if they are looking for work)
 

djv

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Tax Breaks that helped top 2.5% help them way more then anyone in lower brackets.
Take home pay that is after taxes are taken from there check have not gone up for middle class last two years.
Question was asked about the market. We still have not top 99. SP I might be wrong was around 1350. Dow once was over 11900. Nas we won't count it. Went wild was over 4000 now hangs around half that. Interest has been going up now for 2 years. So everyone has had a hidden tax placed on them by these higher rates.
We say things are good. That's what they told Intel workers today 10000 are done in next 60 days. Health care in just last 4 years 50% up. School tuition up more then 5% each of last 4 years. In other words folks think they got tax breaks. Then they find out it goes in gas tank or health care. None of witch creates any jobs 3 million jobs last 4 years when they needed 5.5 million. SO I don't know how they score unemployment. But I do know in the 90's they came with over 12 million jobs. At least that's what government told us. SO things might not be bad but there not what I would call humming.
 

The Sponge

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Sure haven't heard much chirping on economy of late :)

Unemployment now below 5%--Market nearing all time high--lowest taxes in decades--have had lowest interest rates in decades-lowest core inflation rates (averaging two percent per year) in the past 40 years --Homeownership reached an all-time high and mortgage rates reached their lowest level in decades.

If your not better off than you were- why?
Dude honestly did you eat a lot of paint chips when you were younger? Lets see gas is at an all time high. Heating fuel and all time high.
Health care at an all time high. College all time high. Where do you think this great economy has put most of my money? Not the bank and that is for sure. This is a phony economy and if interest rates keep going up this will be a recession. Lets not forget the borrowing that we are doing for this phony economy. 5 freaking trillion in debt before this jackass started and now its over eight. Eight trillion dollars!!!! Please man if your ever gonna learn anything turn off Fox news for ten minutes.
 

The Sponge

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Now, all that having been said, I will give credit where it's due and say that Bush has made a number of great moves to achieve his domestic economic goals. I would even go so far as to say that trying to dispute that fact is foolish. My counterpoint is simply that Bush has the wrong goals in mind.[/QUOTE]

Could you explain to me about these great moves? Was one when Katrina hit all the construction companies were lining up to help and he held them back, sent in Halliburton, and then slammed the Davis Bacon Act so these greddy pricks could make billions instead of millions? That is a great move for the company not the workers. This administration is the most anti American worker that has ever been in charge. As for the war why you think they don't want to leave. There are billions more to make (our tax payer money)with all these companies down there paying ten cents an hour to African workers. Last time i heard there was 15 billion dollars missing over there. Tell the boys i know where it is at.
 

Nick Douglas

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Sponge,

I hate to have to argue with you, but you are not making good points here. Halliburton is a trusted government contractor when it comes to rebuilding infrastructure. I don't know the specifics of what impact repealing the Davis-Bacon Act would have had down there.

As far as Iraq goes, it's ludicrous to think that we are over there primarily to gain a source of cheap overseas labor. There are plenty of other friendlier places in the world we could have gone for that.
 
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