WI Dem's Wanna Play Games? The Republicans can play games too!

Mags

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It is funny that NONE of you said a peep when Indiana did the same thing as WI did 6 years ago, when Ohio did the same thing 2 weeks ago, and the fact that Idaho has got a similiar bill going through their system right now.

It's ok for all the other states, but not OK for Wisconsin to end the discrimation and treat all workers the same???? Too funny...:mj07:
 

hedgehog

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In my opinion no public sector job that is paid by taxpayers should be able to unionize

I hope this guy runs for President
 

hedgehog

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Ok, I'll bite. How does this hurt folks in the private sector? Because we'll pay less in taxes? Because this is the first step in reforming the school system, by rewarding good teachers and firing bad ones? By holding public workers accountable - which can't be done with unions screwing everything up?

To keep from paying bus drivers over $100K a year? To keep from corrections officers from calling in sick, getting paid for their sick day, and then coming in THE SAME DAY to work an overtime shift at time and half, when they were too sick to work their normal shift?

Yea, I can see how this will hurt the 85% that work hard for a living, have to produce for their employer and will get to pay lower taxes.......

I thought bus drivers made about 10 bucks an hour :142smilie
 

Mags

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Are you really this ignorant about the state budget process? The unions agreed to the healthcare and pension concessions and those concessions filter down to the county and municipal level. So please explain to me how collective bargaining rights affect the budget when the concessions have already been agreed to... and be specific.

:popcorn2

They don't. Lip service. Even though unions say we agree to the pay cuts, a number of unions have pushed through contracts the last few days that had no concessions in those areas. Each school district is its own entity - and the unions have proved that they cannot be trusted.

This is no different that many other states - AND Wi workers still have more collective bargaining than ANY federal worker does. So there really is nothing to complain about.

No worker has a "right" to be overpaid, overbenefited AND not be accountable due to the fact it is impossible to fire a union employee for non performance.

Welcome to the real world state workers - it's been a long time in coming.

And FDR is smiling in his grave, as he knew Public Unions were a farce from day 1.
 

Mags

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I thought bus drivers made about 10 bucks an hour :142smilie

Not in Madison - many of them make over $100K.

When the supervisor was questioned, he said "i can't help it - it is in the union contract"! :facepalm:
 

Trampled Underfoot

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The funniest thing about this whole thing is that it took Walker and the GOP three weeks to figure out that this was possible. :facepalm:
 

Mags

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I don't suppose you've got a link to support this claim... :shrug:

Mr. Jackwagen, you are so dumb that you can't even do a search...

The $150,000 Bus Driver

In 2009, the City of Madison?s highest paid employee was a bus driver who earned $159,258, including $109,892 in overtime, guaranteed by a collective bargaining agreement. In total, seven City of Madison bus drivers made more than $100,000 per year in 2009.

"That's the (drivers') contract," said Transit and Parking Commission Chairman Gary Poulson.

Source: Wisconsin State Journal, 2/7/10
 

Trench

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No worker has a "right" to be overpaid, overbenefited AND not be accountable due to the fact it is impossible to fire a union employee for non performance.

Welcome to the real world state workers - it's been a long time in coming.
Yeah public workers... your days of getting rich with your exorbitant $50,000 salaries and cushy benefits like healthcare coverage and pensions are over!!!

The Republican Party... building a bridge back to the 19th Century... when workers had no rights and the robber barrons of the gilded age exploited both the natural and human resources of this country for personal wealth.
 

Trampled Underfoot

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Mr. Jackwagen, you are so dumb that you can't even do a search...

The $150,000 Bus Driver

In 2009, the City of Madison?s highest paid employee was a bus driver who earned $159,258, including $109,892 in overtime, guaranteed by a collective bargaining agreement. In total, seven City of Madison bus drivers made more than $100,000 per year in 2009.

"That's the (drivers') contract," said Transit and Parking Commission Chairman Gary Poulson.

Source: Wisconsin State Journal, 2/7/10

You just can't make this shit up. This really doesn't support your case there maggie.
 

Trampled Underfoot

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Let's face it maggie. Being jealous of a bus driver is not very becoming. Maybe we found a new career for you? At least they provide a service, which is more than I can say for you.
 

Mags

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I don't suppose you've got a link to support this claim... :shrug:

Hey, wanna see more union abuses in WI???

$150,000 Correctional Officers

Correctional Officer collective bargaining agreements allow officers a practice known as ?sick leave stacking.? Officers can call in sick for a shift, receiving 8 hours of sick pay, and then are allowed to work the very next shift, earning time-and-a-half for overtime. This results in the officer receiving 2.5 times his or her rate of pay, while still only working 8 hours.

In part because of these practices, 13 correctional officers made more than $100,000 in 2009, despite earning base wages of less than $60,000 per year. The officers received an average of $66,000 in overtime pay for an average annual salary of more than $123,000 with the highest paid receiving $151,181.
Source: Department of Corrections


Viagra for Teachers
The Milwaukee Teachers Education Association (MTEA) tried to use a policy established by collective bargaining to obtain health insurance coverage that specifically paid for Viagra. Cost to taxpayers is $786,000 a year.

Reference: http://abcnews.go.com/Health/milwau...s-union-sues-discrimination/story?id=11378595


?Outstanding First Year Teacher? Laid Off

Milwaukee Public Schools teacher Megan Sampson was laid off less than one week after being named Outstanding First Year Teacher by the Wisconsin Council of English Teachers. She lost her job because the collective bargaining agreement requires layoffs to be made based on seniority rather than merit.

Informed that her union had rejected a lower-cost health care plan, that still would have required zero contribution from teachers, Sampson said, ?Given the opportunity, of course I would switch to a different plan to save my job, or the jobs of 10 other teachers.

Source: Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, 6/14/10


$6,000 Extra for Carrying a Pager

Some state employees, due to the nature of their positions, are required to carry pagers during off-duty hours in order to respond to emergency situations. Due to the collective bargaining agreements, these employees are compensated an extra five hours of pay each week, whether they are paged or not.

For an employee earning an average salary of $50,000 per year, this requirement can cost more than $6,000 in additional compensation.

Source: 2008-09 Agreement between the State of Wisconsin and AFSCME Council 24


No Volunteer Crossing Guards Allowed

A Wausau public employee union filed a grievance to prohibit a local volunteer from serving as a school crossing guard. The 86-year-old lives just two blocks away and serves everyday free of charge.

Principal Steve Miller says, "He said, you know, this gives me a reason to get up in the morning to come and help these kids in the neighborhood."

But for a local union that represents crossing guards, it isn't that simple. Representatives didn't want to go on camera but say if a crossing guard is needed, then one should be officially hired by the city.
Source: WAOW-TV, 1/27/10


A Year?s Worth of Pay for 30 Days of Work

Under the Green Bay School District?s collectively bargained Emeritus Program, teaches can retire and receive a year?s worth of salary for working only 30 days over a three year period. This is paid in addition to their already guaranteed pension and health care payouts.

At the average annual salary for a Green Bay teacher of $51,355, this amounts to a daily rate of pay of $1,711.83, or an hourly rate of $213.98. Since most retiring teachers receive higher than average salary, these amounts are, in practice, much higher.

Source: WLUK-TV, 3/3/11


Yea, unions are doing a lot of good for the average Wisconsinite. Public unions are wasteful and are plain bad public policy. These examples are just shocking - yet this goes on every day with our unions.
 

Chadman

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I'm not worried about the teachers striking. There is such a huge demand for teacher positions (due to high pay, short work year and great benefits) that if they strike, we'll just replace them and be better off.

Heck, my sis-in-law had 30 applicants (4 years ago) for her position. People know that public service, especially teaching, is a gravy train in terms of short work hours, short work year, great full time benefits and salary for a 9 month job.

With all due respect, taking your angle on this is not only short-sighted and SELF-SERVING (the biggest influence on this subject, IMO), it's patently wrong. If you think that if all the teachers strike or are fired, that Wisconsin will be a better place, I'd suggest you are incredibly wrong. Huge demand? Certainly not everywhere in the state. In some areas, sure - the ones that pay the best with the best benefits - JUST LIKE PRIVATE INDUSTRY.

Who are you going to replace them with? Sure, you'd get teachers who would cross the picket line out of necessity, and many would simply go do something else. (Remember when we heard about all those doctors who are going to quit doctoring and go do something else? :rolleyes: ) Unlike doctors, most teachers DO NOT make a ton of money, and they have degrees and talents and can do many things. Or they can quickly change their college degrees to something else, and not put up with the not so great parts of teaching. So, to fill in to teach all those students (#2 in the country on test scores, with these teachers, right?), you're going to have to scrounge around for people without teaching degrees and experience to teach the kids of your state - indefinitely. If not forever, in many instances. This is a great future for your kids, and your state? But I know that's not what motivates you - you'll be fine. I know that many "consultants" are generally not overpaid for what they do, right? :SIB

Your sis-in-law, is/was she a teacher? Were those applicants all from out of work teachers? Or were most of them from working teachers wanting a change for their own personal reasons? I don't expect a straight answer about that, and I doubt you actually know. But statistics should tell you that teachers, much like private sector workers are usually looking for the best fit for their lives. It's not like all these teachers are out the door, and BAM! we fill up all those classrooms with qualified teachers.

To suggest that is either not being real about the situation, ignoring common sense, or an outright fabrication of the truth.

But hey, it's great for you, right? Do you have any school age children or grandchildren, Mags? Honest question, just wondering where you're completely coming from on this issue, other than lower taxes at all costs, of course.
 

Mags

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What a great day in WI - taxpayers win, and liberal, lazy faggots like Muffy and Trench lose.

The majority wins! And as usual, the losers can't handle losing... they continue to whine, whine, whine......

WAAAA! Maybe you can move to Ohio.. oops, same rules there... maybe Indiana... oh, no, same rules there.... how about Idaho - nope that won't work either.

Maybe go work for the Federal Government.. nope, no collective bargaining there either....

Who is gonna save my job when I suck at it and am lazy????? No union to save me... WAAAA!
 

Mags

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With all due respect, taking your angle on this is not only short-sighted and SELF-SERVING (the biggest influence on this subject, IMO), it's patently wrong. If you think that if all the teachers strike or are fired, that Wisconsin will be a better place, I'd suggest you are incredibly wrong. Huge demand? Certainly not everywhere in the state. In some areas, sure - the ones that pay the best with the best benefits - JUST LIKE PRIVATE INDUSTRY.

Who are you going to replace them with? Sure, you'd get teachers who would cross the picket line out of necessity, and many would simply go do something else. (Remember when we heard about all those doctors who are going to quit doctoring and go do something else? :rolleyes: ) Unlike doctors, most teachers DO NOT make a ton of money, and they have degrees and talents and can do many things. Or they can quickly change their college degrees to something else, and not put up with the not so great parts of teaching. So, to fill in to teach all those students (#2 in the country on test scores, with these teachers, right?), you're going to have to scrounge around for people without teaching degrees and experience to teach the kids of your state - indefinitely. If not forever, in many instances. This is a great future for your kids, and your state? But I know that's not what motivates you - you'll be fine. I know that many "consultants" are generally not overpaid for what they do, right? :SIB

Your sis-in-law, is/was she a teacher? Were those applicants all from out of work teachers? Or were most of them from working teachers wanting a change for their own personal reasons? I don't expect a straight answer about that, and I doubt you actually know. But statistics should tell you that teachers, much like private sector workers are usually looking for the best fit for their lives. It's not like all these teachers are out the door, and BAM! we fill up all those classrooms with qualified teachers.

To suggest that is either not being real about the situation, ignoring common sense, or an outright fabrication of the truth.

But hey, it's great for you, right? Do you have any school age children or grandchildren, Mags? Honest question, just wondering where you're completely coming from on this issue, other than lower taxes at all costs, of course.

Hey Chad:

Thanks for your thoughtful response. The bottom line - our education system in Wisconsin is not working - and not working nationally. It hasn't been for a number of years - which I think many people will acknowledge (including Obama).

Many people (including me) feel that the unions are a big reason why it doesn't work. No accountability for teachers - once they've been there 3 years or so, they are basically impossible to fire. So removing as much union influence as possible will be a net win.

Too many get into teaching now due to great pay, short work hours, short work year and great benefits. They should get into it because they are really good at it or love kids. Hopefully that will occur in the future.

We've thrown a lot of money at education in this country and it hasn't helped. The next step is to reform the whole system - which the union would never allow.

So we must remove the union. This is a great first step.
 

Trampled Underfoot

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What a great day in WI - taxpayers win, and liberal, lazy faggots like Muffy and Trench lose.

The majority wins! And as usual, the losers can't handle losing... they continue to whine, whine, whine......

WAAAA! Maybe you can move to Ohio.. oops, same rules there... maybe Indiana... oh, no, same rules there.... how about Idaho - nope that won't work either.

Maybe go work for the Federal Government.. nope, no collective bargaining there either....

Who is gonna save my job when I suck at it and am lazy????? No union to save me... WAAAA!

maggie's true colors are coming out tonight. Piece of shit.
 
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