WI Dem's Wanna Play Games? The Republicans can play games too!

[Mags]

With all due respect, taking your angle on this is not only short-sighted and SELF-SERVING (the biggest influence on this subject, IMO), it's patently wrong. If you think that if all the teachers strike or are fired, that Wisconsin will be a better place, I'd suggest you are incredibly wrong. Huge demand? Certainly not everywhere in the state. In some areas, sure - the ones that pay the best with the best benefits - JUST LIKE PRIVATE INDUSTRY.

Who are you going to replace them with? Sure, you'd get teachers who would cross the picket line out of necessity, and many would simply go do something else. (Remember when we heard about all those doctors who are going to quit doctoring and go do something else? ) Unlike doctors, most teachers DO NOT make a ton of money, and they have degrees and talents and can do many things. Or they can quickly change their college degrees to something else, and not put up with the not so great parts of teaching. So, to fill in to teach all those students (#2 in the country on test scores, with these teachers, right?), you're going to have to scrounge around for people without teaching degrees and experience to teach the kids of your state - indefinitely. If not forever, in many instances. This is a great future for your kids, and your state? But I know that's not what motivates you - you'll be fine. I know that many "consultants" are generally not overpaid for what they do, right? :SIB

Your sis-in-law, is/was she a teacher? Were those applicants all from out of work teachers? Or were most of them from working teachers wanting a change for their own personal reasons? I don't expect a straight answer about that, and I doubt you actually know. But statistics should tell you that teachers, much like private sector workers are usually looking for the best fit for their lives. It's not like all these teachers are out the door, and BAM! we fill up all those classrooms with qualified teachers.

To suggest that is either not being real about the situation, ignoring common sense, or an outright fabrication of the truth.

But hey, it's great for you, right? Do you have any school age children or grandchildren, Mags? Honest question, just wondering where you're completely coming from on this issue, other than lower taxes at all costs, of course.

Oh by the way, the "consultants are not overpaid" comment.....

IF I could vote for, and elect each person that is responsible for hiring me, and then have them give me a sweetheart deal for electing them, it would be a valid comparison.

There is no incentive for a the government to ever truly negotiate wages/benefits - in fact, it is usually in their best interests to give away the farm just to get reelected.

Public unions don't work. Doyle gave away the farm for a number of years, and now it is time to pay the piper.

 

[Mags]

maggie's true colors are coming out tonight. Piece of shit.

Same to you!

 

[Trench]

What a great day in WI - taxpayers win, and liberal, lazy faggots like Muffy and Trench lose.

Sorry to put a damper on your homo-erotic fantasies, Mags, but Trench doesn't swing that way.

But thanks for revealing that you're not just a right-wing douchebag, you're a homophobic right-wing douchebag.

 

[Skulnik]

Fuck the UNIONS, NUFF SAID.


JMHO.


:0074

 

[Trench]

Fuck the UNIONS, NUFF SAID.

:0074

Keep working at it Skul. Someday you'll be able to speak in complete sentences. :0074

 

[Trench]

Fuck the UNIONS, NUFF SAID.

Btw Skul, is it genetic or did you experience severe head trauma earlier in life?

 

[Trench]

Same to you!

Ya gotta admit, Tramp. There's no comeback to wit like that... :142smilie

 

[Skulnik]

Tramp and Trent, a couple of Huffers with their SOCIAL Justice bullshit.


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:shrug:

 

[Trampled Underfoot]

Tramp and Trent, a couple of Huffers with their SOCIAL Justice bullshit.


<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/P36x8rTb3jI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


:shrug:

A perfect end to this discussion. :facepalm: :mj07:

 

[Trench]

Tramp and Trent, a couple of Huffers with their SOCIAL Justice bullshit.

I'm going with my hunch on this one... it was severe head trauma... :142smilie

 

[bleedingpurple]

1. The $150,000 bus driver claims are just little blurbs. I want to know more.. Like how many hours did the guy work? Are they adding in his benefits too in the total as most like to do? What does the contract say? Why the fuck aren't there more bus drivers to cut the over time. That little article needs to tell me more about the situation.

2. Why isn't Wisconsin education working? I will match up Wisconsin against most states in the country especially the republican states? No offense but the states that consistently score high are the more democratic states and the consistent educational bottom feeders are mostly republican? Hmmm?

3. Education will never be 100 % effective. You can't fix stupid or the people unwilling to learn. You can't teach people who think like their daddy, and their grand daddy, and what their great grand daddy had taught em. You have educated scientific people telling the country this is going to happen or this has happened and then you have hicks tell you not to believe it because the Bible or our republican representatives don't believe in it.
IE: Global warming or evolution. I am not saying you have to believe in those things but to not even look into it and just believe what you are told is what is wrong. People need to form their own opinions and not follow what someone tells em like the Rush and Savage listeners or worse yet the Dumb C ##T Michelle Bachman.

4. I don't know how much any of this is going to help the middle class? To me it is just going to keep the non unionized jobs at a stagnant pay level as well. I don't think this is going to make teaching any better. I have had non unionized and unionized nursing jobs. You have the same amount of good nurses as not so good nurses in both. Never noticed a difference.

5. You republican guys and NRA guys always bitch about the Dems trying to take your gun rights away. If they take away semi automatics then they will take some more away down the road. WTF do you guys think about a politician taking away a unions rights? Once you start with this then what? What is the next move? I think we take an ass fucking thats what I think.

 

[bleedingpurple]

Also this is not going to get better teachers in Wisconsin? Are you fucking serious? Why do you think the teachers who are not working right now are not working? If my client is hiring a nurse he is going to look at the candidates who have a job and are looking for a different job. He isn't going to be gung ho to interview a nurse who isn't working (unless a new grad). Do ya see the red flag? Is there a reason that some of these people are not working?

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

I wonder how Republicans will fare in the next 20 years of Wisconsin elections?

I hope fucking people out of a decent living helps you guys realize your greatest dreams.

Gary--could you clarify above--your concern is that politicians-fed-state and local gov employees-- aren't going to make a decent living without a union?

---and those wanting to stop runaway deficits/budgets/unfunded pensions-- are the bad guys?

 

[WhatsHisNuts]

Gary--could you clarify above--your concern is that politicians-fed-state and local gov employees-- aren't going to make a decent living without a union?

---and those wanting to stop runaway deficits/budgets/unfunded pensions-- are the bad guys?

I have to run, so I will clarify quickly:

The idea seems to be that these people making 50k a year are overpaid. Taking away the union will help cut their pay (that is the idea right?). I think 50k is a decent salary. I think 40k or less kind of sucks.

The people with real talent will leave these jobs to get their pay back to where they are accustomed. The job market will be changing as the amount of "decent" paying jobs drops. What happens when they start to flood the already saturated job market? Corporations will have more leverage and compensation will be held where it is or dropped.

 

[Trench]

Public unions don't work. Doyle gave away the farm for a number of years, and now it is time to pay the piper.

Gov. Doyle gave away the farm?? Really??

The same Gov. Doyle who made up a larger budget shortfall the first 3 years he was in office?? The same Gov. Doyle who left office with a projected budget SURPLUS for 2011? The budget surplus only turned into a budget deficit when Walker passed 4 bills cutting taxes for businesses as his first order of business when he took office 2 months ago.

I'll make it real simple for you, Mags. So simple that even you can understand it.

1. The runaway greed of a deregulated Wall Street crashed the entire financial sector in this country.

2. The economy crashed as a result of the financial sector and housing market meltdowns.

3. As the economy crashed, revenues in states across the country dropped accordingly, resulting in budget deficits in 45 of the 50 states.

4. The conservative Supreme Court ruled against Citizens United, opening the door for unlimited corporate contributions to political campaigns.

5. Corporate contributions to political campaigns heavily influenced the outcome of elections across the country in 2010.

6. Corporate interests like the Koch Brothers pumped $5 million through the Republican Governors Association into the Scott Walker campaign to be used for attack ads against Walker's opponent - Tom Barrett.

7. Scott Walker took office and immediately began carrying out the agenda of the corporate interests he represents. First order of business: 4 bills cutting taxes for businesses. Result: the budget surplus turns into a budget deficit.

8. After creating a budget deficit in an attempt to gain leverage and public support for his 2nd order of business, Scott Walker announces "We're broke. Our only option is to cut benefits for all public employees and strip them of the collective bargaining rights they've had for 50 years."

9. Walker spends the next month demonizing public employees and threatening to fire tens of thousands of public employees unless he gets his "Budget Reform" bill passed.

10. The people of Wisconsin see through the Scott Walker/Koch Bros. ruse and mount massive protests at the state capitol. Public sentiment turns against the Walker/Koch Bros. war on the middle-class.

Result: This isn't over by a long shot. Stay tuned.

 

[Lumi]

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Murray Rothbard on the Kochtopus[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]by David Gordon[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Recently by David Gordon: Neoconservatism Defined[/FONT][/FONT]
​

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]The influence of Charles and David Koch on the Tea Party Movement and their connections with the Governor of Wisconsin have been much in the news lately. The efforts of the Kochs to gain political influence began long ago; and students of what Sam Konkin aptly called the Kochtopus will inevitably be reminded of the Koch brothers? involvement in Ed Clark?s campaign for President on the Libertarian Party ticket in 1980. Indeed, David Koch was Clark?s running mate; his being on the ticket freed him from the monetary limits normally imposed on donors. Differences of opinion on the campaign, among other matters, led to a breach between the Kochs and Murray Rothbard. For understanding that breach, we have an invaluable tool. Rothbard wrote about the conflict numerous times in Libertarian Forum, a newsletter that he edited from 1969 to 1984. [/FONT]

• [FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]The Kochtopus vs. Murray N. Rothbard, Part I[/FONT]
• The Kochtopus vs. Murray N. Rothbard, Part II

 

[Mags]

The same Gov. Doyle who made up a larger budget shortfall the first 3 years he was in office??

No, the same Gov. Doyle who passed a huge tax increase in WI, in his budget repair bill, in a 24 hour period. Contrast that to Walker's bill which took almost a month to pass. Transparency anyone? Let's not forget that WI is one of the highest taxed states in the nation..... Yea, that Gov Doyle.

2. The economy crashed as a result of the financial sector and housing market meltdowns.

Housing Market meltdown? Thank you Dems for making the banks give loans to anyone with a pulse - with no chance to pay it back.

4. The conservative Supreme Court ruled against Citizens United, opening the door for unlimited corporate contributions to political campaigns.

Best thing to happen in our country in many years, as it now put many citizens on the same plane as Unions - who have been providing unlimited contributions for many years. Unions are no different that corporations in that regard, so it is good that they are both now on a level playing field.

5. Corporate contributions to political campaigns heavily influenced the outcome of elections across the country in 2010.

No, Obama's leftist agenda, trying to turn the USA into France/Greece heavily influenced the outcome of elections. People were looking for leadership and less government spending - neither of which Obama could offer (or at least hasn't to date)

6. Corporate interests like the Koch Brothers pumped $5 million through the Republican Governors Association into the Scott Walker campaign to be used for attack ads against Walker's opponent - Tom Barrett.

At the same time, Unions were pumping money into Barrett's campaign to do the same against Walker - so what's your point?

7. Scott Walker took office and immediately began carrying out the agenda of the corporate interests he represents. First order of business: 4 bills cutting taxes for businesses. Result: the budget surplus turns into a budget deficit.

No different that the Dem's agenda when they win - except that the Dem's reward their unions and then raise taxes on everyone to pay for it.

8. After creating a budget deficit in an attempt to gain leverage and public support for his 2nd order of business, Scott Walker announces "We're broke. Our only option is to cut benefits for all public employees and strip them of the collective bargaining rights they've had for 50 years."

Yep, change is hard. But necessary. After unions have raped the public for years, change was needed. CB "Rights"? You mean like "pursuit of happiness" in the US Constitution? "Rights" is a dumb word - A public employee should never have a "right" to hold taxpayers hostage by ridiculous work rules, high compensation, and health plans that are nowhere near what they are in the private sector.

9. Walker spends the next month demonizing public employees and threatening to fire tens of thousands of public employees unless he gets his "Budget Reform" bill passed.

See, "Obama, Obamacare" to understand where this strategy was learned. And Walker was nowhere close to being as vicious as Obama was to health care and financial companies. Walker took more of the high road - Obama is just a poor example of a leader the way he went about it. Not much class in that Obama guy.

10. The people of Wisconsin see through the Scott Walker/Koch Bros. ruse and mount massive protests at the state capitol. Public sentiment turns against the Walker/Koch Bros. war on the middle-class.

I think you'll be surprised. You live in Madison - which is certainly not representative of Wisconsin overall. Madison is this weird place - like San Francisco transplanted in WI. Most people in the state (see, "Elections, Nov 2010") are hardworking conservatives in our state - not spread the wealth liberals and college professors who really have no concept of the real world. After all, as the saying goes "those that can't do, they teach".

Result: This isn't over by a long shot. Stay tuned.

Agreed. But like the Healthcare bill, this will be very difficult to overturn. Would need a trifecta of the Dems taking the Gov office, Senate and Assembly. Not impossible, but improbable to happen for a number of years. By that time, these changes will be so ingrained that it will be really difficult to change them back. AND, to do so, they'll have to find large sums of money to feed the union beast. Which means they'll dramatically have to raise taxes again. And given that WI is currently #4 in taxes, there won't be much appettite to do so.