Can Irish Win It All?

[TouchdownJesus]

Ok, people have complained that Notre Dame should not be ranked 9th. I am an Irish fan, and I hate the way they lossed both of their games, but still figure they should be ranked lower with 2 losses. Sort of. I mean you have an OT game. To me thats a tie b/c they might as well go play scrabble to see who wins.
I'm biased but I feel like they legitimately beat USC, the score just doesn't show it. The fumble should have ended the game. In the NFL it would have, so I'm sure they will change the rule before next season.
Anyway, lets just agree that they are 9th, whether they should be or not. Can they win the national championship, and if not then the rankings mean nothing.
Lets say hypothetically, 6 and 7 lose. Then 4 and 5 lose the next week, etc. Does Notre Dame keep moving up? Or do teams leapfrog them? USC plays UCLA so one of them has to lose. Most of the teams left would have to play in a conference title game. I haven't checked the schedules, but I'm pretty sure it could happen with a few upsets here and there, and of course ND would have to win out. Could they do it, or would a 1-loss team jump them?
And, yes, we need a playoff. The solution is so simple, but no one will listen to me. Not even John Swofford, though he did write me back.

 

[INtheBLUE]

If "ifs, ands, and buts" were candy and nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas.!!

HO HO HO!!

 

[gman2]

I'm biased but I feel like they legitimately beat USC, the score just doesn't show it

if youre making that particular argument, then the counter-argument would be that they were blown out by michigan state..... the score just didnt show it.

 

[thom24ad]

no and the media always favors ND in the polls

 

[mcity]

if youre making that particular argument, then the counter-argument would be that they were blown out by michigan state..... the score just didnt show it.

yeah, and they beat SC........but the score didn't show it........give me a break. :mj03:

 

[TouchdownJesus]

Alright, I'll compare this game to 1990. Colorado vs. Missouri (I think it was Missouri). Colorado beat them. They scored on 5th down.
Here, USC not only gets a timeout from the fumble. They somehow get forward progress.
I can see not calling the "aiding the runner", but it sucks b/c it was so blatant and it probably was the only way Leinhart was going to get in.

And, nice response Intheblue. The whole question I'm asking involves if's. If it all happens, do teams start leagfrogging ND b/c they have 2 losses? The polls are such a joke, but the whole thing is supposed to be that if you are ranked 10th and win, then you move up if teams ahead of you lose, depending on how far they drop. Not an exact science, but thats the general gist.
I see ND getting up to about 5th and then when the top 4 start losing, they don't drop below the Irish.
gman2, that response is absurd. Your better than that.

 

[gman2]

gman2, that response is absurd. Your better than that.

theres nothing absurd about it. i never said thats what i think. im saying that you cant just pick and choose which final scores to distort.

notre dame didnt beat anybody on saturday. did they play well? absolutely. but they didnt beat anyone. if youre going to start twisting scores, then its only fair to recognize that notre dame trailed by 21 at home in the later stages of the michigan state game, all the while being a 7 point favorite.

 

[DIRTY Diapers]

GMAN - Why in the hell do you keep bringing up the MSU game????? That has nothing to do with the outcome of the USC?ND game.

ND lost in OVERTIME against MSU after they put all of their emotion in a hard fought game in Ann Arbor the week before... Not to mention them fumbling on the goal line against MSU and getting stopped twice on 4th and 1 two other times that game. MSU is a tough team and will be back.

Regardless, ND lost on two controversial calls. There is no denying this. P. Carrol was the puss who didn't want instant replay at the game. The only reason was because they had PAC 10 officials. I'm not saying it cost ND the game or not, but it would have been nice to review some of those plays at the end.

I'm tired of talking about the game. If ND wins out - they have a chance at a BCS bowl and I will be happy.

 

[INtheBLUE]

GMAN - Why in the hell do you keep bringing up the MSU game????? That has nothing to do with the outcome of the USC?ND game.

He didn't say it had anything to do with Saturday's game at all, so I dont know why you feel the need to attack except your still reelin from your team blowin another close one.

This thread was about ND makin it to the NC game and Jesus tried every angle to make it look like ND deserves to be there if pigs fly in the next 7 weeks.

Gman just tried to tell Jesus to take off the clover glasses and see reality. ND wont make it this year.

I'm tired of talking about the game.

Then quit talkin about the game and get some rest. Good night Double D!

 

[TouchdownJesus]

Your right, I don't think ND has a chance this year. Its just that they are ranked 9th halfway thru the season with a chance to win the rest of their games.
People are complaining that they are ranked too high, but even if everyone ahead of them loses, the polls are meaningless b/c teams will just jump over them.
Part of me is wondering if there is a chance, and the other part is saying just how bullshit the polls are.

What I'm saying, and this is the last time I'll say it. Notre Dame came up and tackled the guy with 7 seconds left and USC out of timeouts. There should be no way they get another play. In the NFL the fumble wouldn't save them. It "shouldn't" in college either, but it did.
To me, at that point they finished the game, but the game was extended by one play. I accept the loss, but not sure what more ND can do to win the game. They get a horrible spot, stuff the QB on the sneak, and Bush pushes him in.
Its a bullshit fest, a penalty fest after the guy stops Leinhart on the QB scramble.

 

[BleedDodgerBlue]

fine, who cares about the usc game

you still can't win the national title because you lost at home to a middle of the road team in a middle of the road big ten conference.

i like nd and they have a bright future, but your question was whether or not they have a national title shot and they don't.

 

[TouchdownJesus]

Thanks. Thats what I was asking. Also, I just have to say I can't get over this game. I can't think of a game that has hurt like this one. If Leinhart gets in the end zone, it would have sucked, but it would have gone down as one of the all time greats.
I feel there is a huge asterick beside this one and it stole a great win away from Irish and it stole a chance at trying to get into nat'l champ position.

With this question, I think the biggest thing is that its going to piss me off if they climb up to like #4 or #5 with a couple weeks left and then the voters realize they can't let them get to #2.

A playoff would be so simple and fun to watch. Everyone would have an equal chance at the start of the season. BCS sucks.

Mich. St. might be considered a lot better if they hadn't screwed up that field goal at the end of the first half against Ohio State. They were dominating. Then, in the 2nd hafl they couldn't tackle receivers.

 

[gman2]

I accept the loss, but not sure what more ND can do to win the game.

stop usc on 3rd/20 deep in their own territory with 1:30 left.

or even stop usc on 4th/9 one play later.

do you know what the conversion percentage is for teams facing 3rd/20 and 4th/9? its very very low.

im not trying to perpetuate the frustration for irish fans. i was pulling for notre dame to win the game. but if they stop them there, we're not talking about a fumble, or a push, or anything like that

regardless, lets move on to next week. irish played great and theyll learn from this game and be better because of it. but usc got the job done when it counted

 

[INtheBLUE]

TJesus,
The one thing that you can take from this game is that Notre Lame did something that only Cal has done in the last 3 years. Show USC can be beaten, but a team will have to play for 60 mins (not 59) to accomplish this.

It pains me to say that the Irish are one of the best teams in the country, but not one of the elite. The players I believe lost their edge going into the Michigan St game, and then again coming out of the USC game. That one fact will keep them from seeing that elite status this year. And looking at their depth, don't see them having the chance for greatness for another couple of years.

Again, I am sorry that a team that you cherish, and are an HONORABLE fan to, lost. Take solace in the fact that they are a lot better than anyone gave them credit to be at the beginning of the year. I sincerely hope you feel better about the hard fought game.

 

[mcity]

TJesus,
The one thing that you can take from this game is that Notre Lame did something that only Cal has done in the last 3 years. Show USC can be beaten, but a team will have to play for 60 mins (not 59) to accomplish this.

It pains me to say that the Irish are one of the best teams in the country, but not one of the elite. The players I believe lost their edge going into the Michigan St game, and then again coming out of the USC game. That one fact will keep them from seeing that elite status this year. And looking at their depth, don't see them having the chance for greatness for another couple of years.

Again, I am sorry that a team that you cherish, and are an HONORABLE fan to, lost. Take solace in the fact that they are a lot better than anyone gave them credit to be at the beginning of the year. I sincerely hope you feel better about the hard fought game.

blue,

we do have 19 starters back next year and weis and this group of players will have a year of experience under their belts......you are correct in the fact that depth is still a little short but what we start on the field is going to be pretty damn tough. Should be interesting to see how ND responds this week after such an emotional blow....I really think BYU and their pass happy offense may be worth a look this week.

 

[TouchdownJesus]

Yes, I am ready to move on. But I have to reply to this.
I am so pissed when people say they should have stopped them on 3rd and 20. And on 4th and 9. Of course they should have. But, the field is still 100 yards long, isn't it? They only got to the 1. At least I'm saying they only got to the 1, legitimately.
I mean when I ask what more could Notre Dame do? Well, I guess they could have scored on every play of the game and won 220-0 and they wouldn't have been in that situation either.

Its kind of like saying what else could USA basketball do in 1972? Well I guess they could have stopped the Soviets on all 3 plays that happened in the last 2 seconds, instead of just 2 of the last 3 plays.

To me it just seems like the game was extended by one play. And the one play was somehow given to USC 6 inches away from the goalline, and they still had to cheat to score.

One last (hopefully) mention about the fumble. I just hope they do change the rule on this.
My argument is that what if Leinhart fumbles on purpose. If he tosses the ball out of bounds to stop the clock. What happens?
Lets say he "accidentily" drops it, and "accidentily" kicks it out of bounds? What happens?
At what point does the clock stop, and at what point does it not stop? How can you show intent? The simple most fair thing to do, is like the NFL and run the clock.
And, also how does the ball get spotted there?

Ok, I'm done. I feel cheated, but I'm done. Moving on. Just hate that this game will go up there with Neb/Ok '71 when it ended like that. Done.......now.

 

[pt1gard]

TJesus,
The one thing that you can take from this game is that Notre Lame did something that only Cal has done in the last 3 years. Show USC can be beaten, but a team will have to play for 60 mins (not 59) to accomplish this.

Multiple teams have had them on the ropes, even the Trees and Beavs.

 

[TouchdownJesus]

Arizona State as well.

Got to play USC for 61 minutes. Sorry, let go but picked up again. Deep breaths.

 

[pt1gard]

Plus Hank Iba had his wallet stolen ...

TJ, i hear ya, I have a future on USC and dont think they outplayed ND and so admired weis and company all game -- I copied it on DVD and rewatched the entire game incluidng many replays of big ones ... ND missed FG, ND tall white WR (sorry cant recall name) goes OB by inches in end zone, Bing knocks ball loose ... USC gets picks on ricochet end zone pay, ND keeps tying drive alive down 14-7 when WR was OB--so many breaks and plays coulda turned game around ...

I hear your pain, I used to follow certain teams with my every heart beat and no longer really have faves, I just watch and suffer my ats losse, hehe ...

But honor your team by apprecaiting the thrills they give you, is my best advice---altho your beloved Irish boys lost a agonizing one, you will always carry the excitement and moments of that game with you throughout your life .... I think in the end thats all we have, snapshot flickers to draw upon and relish ...

hang in there
gregg

 

[volfan]

Vols kick the chit out of you guys in a couple weeks