a beautiful photo....in honor of dtb,neverteasit and the other vets on the board...

marine

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All the services are under the command of the President of the United States. All of the services except the Coast Guard are part of the Department of Defense, which is controlled by the Secretary of Defense. In peacetime the Coast Guard is part of the Department of Homeland Security, while in wartime responsibility is transferred to the Defense Department. [2]

Approximately 1.4 million personnel are currently on active duty in the military with an additional 860,000 personnel in the seven reserve components (456,000 of which are in the Army and Air National Guard).[3] There is currently no conscription. Women are allowed to serve in non-combat positions, although due to the realities of war many of these positions see combat regularly. [4]
 
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The Sponge

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Marine bull i saw it for myself. My buddies kid had two drinking and driving offenses and they said they would waive these if he join the military and he said yes. I should have worded this better about forgiving an offense to join the military. I wasn't talking about rapist and murders. As for the bottem of the barrel way to go to spin my words. I said kids who didn't have much direction in life. The kid who's parents didn't want much to do with him were rich. They were seperated and wanted on with their lives. Just two awful people. By the way come to thik of it the kid who was gonna go to jail his family was also rich. His dad is a real super guy but his kid somehow just couldn't get life. He was in trouble all the time. Now i also said there were kids who really want to stand up for the country but i say more of them are there because they had no other choice. I will also say this the arm forces have lowered their requirements for people to join because this admistration needs more troop. This is a fact. They have also raised the age limit.
 

marine

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Sponge, just stop now.. you are spewing half truths again. You gleam your info from the media which dramatizes stories to get headlines. please tell me what the minimum requirements are now to join the military.. and i bet you will find that it is rather difficult... even with these "lower standards"

how do I know this? Because I was a goddam recruiter for 2 years.
for every 10 kids that I talked to.. MAYBE 1 of them was qualified to join

"As for the bottem of the barrel way to go to spin my words. I said kids who didn't have much direction in life."
-- SO what, these kids are the creme de la creme of society instead? their losers.
 
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marine

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tell us the whole story on the drinking and driving too.. were they full on DWI's? was he convicted? or was he just pulled over for underage drinking?
who waived them? the justice system? or a waiver from the command stating that they knew about his incidents and after interviewing him they felt that he was still dedicated to service?

please... lets here the full story
 

The Sponge

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tell us the whole story on the drinking and driving too.. were they full on DWI's? was he convicted? or was he just pulled over for underage drinking?
who waived them? the justice system? or a waiver from the command stating that they knew about his incidents and after interviewing him they felt that he was still dedicated to service?

please... lets here the full story

im not gonna call his father and ask him this. What i do know is that his kid kept getting in trouble. Not the type of trouble like stealing. High school type of trouble. what id do know is that he was told that if he wanted the stuff wavied off of his record he could join the military. I also do know he has gone back twice and his father begs him not to go because he like me knows you guys are fighting for absolute bullshit.
 

smurphy

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Approximately 1.4 million personnel are currently on active duty in the military with an additional 860,000 personnel in the seven reserve components (456,000 of which are in the Army and Air National Guard).[3] There is currently no conscription. Women are allowed to serve in non-combat positions, although due to the realities of war many of these positions see combat regularly. [4]

So we have the numbers to send legitimate combat personel to Iraq without requiring the National Guard and Reserves - even after the cuts of the 80's and 90's.

Why then do we have National Guard and Reserves in Iraq? What's the real answer?
 

marine

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im not gonna call his father and ask him this. What i do know is that his kid kept getting in trouble. Not the type of trouble like stealing. High school type of trouble. what id do know is that he was told that if he wanted the stuff wavied off of his record he could join the military. I also do know he has gone back twice and his father begs him not to go because he like me knows you guys are fighting for absolute bullshit.

I will wager BOTH my kidneys, both my lungs, and my entire bank account that that statement is complete and utter bullsh*t.

You're getting third hand, filtered information and trying to make a factual statement about it. Sort of like the rest of your statements about the military.
You seriously believe that a recruiter has some kind of inside pull with the judge to remove convictions off a record?

Get a clue, get a grip, get something man. But stop trying to make a mockery of our armed forces.
 

marine

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So we have the numbers to send legitimate combat personel to Iraq without requiring the National Guard and Reserves - even after the cuts of the 80's and 90's.

Why then do we have National Guard and Reserves in Iraq? What's the real answer?

the Nasty Guard... couldn't tell you.

The reserves? because that is what they are there to do. Support holes in the active duty population caused by rotational and operational committments.
No where in a reservist's contract does it say that they can be called up to active duty only in the continental United States.
 

The Sponge

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I will wager BOTH my kidneys, both my lungs, and my entire bank account that that statement is complete and utter bullsh*t.

You're getting third hand, filtered information and trying to make a factual statement about it. Sort of like the rest of your statements about the military.
You seriously believe that a recruiter has some kind of inside pull with the judge to remove convictions off a record?

Get a clue, get a grip, get something man. But stop trying to make a mockery of our armed forces.


Dude your a asshole so i will find out the whole story just to satisfy your bullshit spin. Here is one article about the lower standards. this is not the one i wanted but it has a line or two for what i was talking about. Saying im trying to make a mockery of the armed forces makes me think you are such and asshole who isnt fit to send anyone into combat.

For Recruiters, a Hard Toll From a Hard Sell


By Damien Cave / New York Times

The Army's recruiters are being challenged with one of the hardest selling jobs the military has asked of them in American history, and many say the demands are taking a toll.

A recruiter in New York said pressure from the Army to meet his recruiting goals during a time of war has given him stomach problems and searing back pain. Suffering from bouts of depression, he said he has considered suicide. Another, in Texas, said he had volunteered many times to go to Iraq rather than face ridicule, rejection and the Army's wrath.

An Army chaplain said he had counseled nearly a dozen recruiters in the past 18 months to help them cope with marital troubles and job-related stress.

"There were a couple of recruiters that felt they were having nervous breakdowns, literally," said Maj. Stephen Nagler, a chaplain who retired in March after serving at Fort Hamilton in Brooklyn, where the New York City recruiting battalion is based.

Two dozen recruiters nationwide were interviewed about their experiences over four months. Ten spoke with The New York Times even after an Army official sent an e-mail message advising all recruiters not to speak to this reporter, who was named. Most asked for anonymity to avoid being disciplined.

A handful who spoke said they were satisfied with their jobs. They said they took pride in seeing awkward, unfocused teenagers transform into confident soldiers and relished an opportunity to contribute to the Army effort.

But most told similar tales: of loving the military, of working hard to complete a seemingly impossible task, of struggling to carry the nation's burden at a time of anxiety and stress.

The careers and self-esteem of recruiters rise and fall on their ability to fulfill a mission, said current and former Army officials and military experts who were also interviewed.

Recruiters said falling short often generates a barrage of angry correspondence, formal reprimands, threats or even demotion.

"The recruiter is stuck in the situation where you're not going to make mission, it just won't happen," the New York recruiter said. "And you're getting chewed out every day for it. It's horrible." He said the assignment was more strenuous than the time he was shot at while deployed in Africa.

At least 37 members of the Army Recruiting Command, which oversees enlistment, have gone AWOL since October 2002, Army figures show. And, in what recruiters consider another sign of stress, the number of improprieties committed - signing up unqualified people to meet quotas or giving bonuses or other enlistment benefits to recruits not eligible for them - has increased, Army documents show.

"They don't necessarily have real bullets flying at them," said Major Nagler. "But there are different kind of bullets they need to contend with - the bullets of not producing numbers, of having a station commander shoot them down."

The Army is seeking 101,200 new active-duty Army and Reserve soldiers this year alone to replenish the ranks in Iraq and Afghanistan, elsewhere around the world and at home. That means each of the Army's 7,500 recruiters faces the grind of an unyielding human math, a quota of two new recruits a month, at a time of extended war without a draft.

The mission puts them in a different kind of cross-fire: On one side, the military's requirement that new soldiers be found. On the other, resistance by many parents to Army careers for their children in wartime.

Maj. Gen. Michael D. Rochelle, commander of the Army Recruiting Command, acknowledged it is a stressful time for recruiters, who face "the toughest challenge to the all-volunteer Army" since it began in 1973.

"I do not deny being demanding," said General Rochelle, leader of the command since 2002. "We have a vitally important mission in terms of providing volunteers for an army that is at war and that is growing."

He said the Army has already added recruiters and taken measures to expand the pool of potential soldiers, by accepting older recruits and more people without high school diplomas. Other changes are being considered, he said.
But many recruiters said the Army continues to minimize how difficult it has become to find qualified volunteers during a war and in a growing economy.

For the first time in nearly five years, the Army missed its active-duty recruiting goal in February. The Reserve has missed its monthly quota since October. Army officials said the goals would most likely be missed the next two months as well.

Gen. Richard A. Cody, Army vice chief of staff, told Congress on March 16 that he is concerned about whether the Army can continue to provide the troops the nation needs.

"What keeps me awake at night," he said, "is what will this all-volunteer force look like in 2007?"

The Marines also missed monthly recruiting goals in January, for the first time in a decade. The Navy and Air Force, which provide fewer people for the war, are on track to meet their quotas.

Trying to refill the ranks solely through recruitment in wartime is rare. Historians say the Spanish-American War, Mexican-American War and Gulf war were the only major conflicts since 1775 that did not rely, in part, on conscripts.

Since 1973, the Army has usually maintained an all-volunteer force of a million active-duty, Reserve and National Guard soldiers, primarily through a marketing campaign that promoted opportunities for adventure, new skills, college money and other personal goals - enticements that, in wartime, often do not outweigh fear of combat and death, Army surveys show.

While some in Congress have raised the specter of a draft, the Bush administration has rejected that idea, saying higher skilled soldiers are needed in a high-tech age, and are best found through recruitment.

But several senior officers interviewed, including Col. Greg Parlier, retired, who until 2002 headed the research and strategy arm of the Army Recruiting Command, said the pressure on recruiters shows the policy should be re-examined, and initiatives like national service should be considered.

Courting Mom and Dad

The Army is the nation's largest military branch, comprising 80 percent of the 150,000 troops in Iraq. Its recruiters are among its best soldiers. Most are sergeants with 5 to 15 years of experience, pulled randomly from the top 10 percent of their specialty, as defined by their commanding officers. More than 70 percent did not volunteer for the job.

Some soldiers are better suited to the task than others. Staff Sgt. Jose E. Zayas, 42, is outgoing, bilingual and embraces his mission. Recently, canvassing in the Bronx, he had little trouble persuading a couple from Massachusetts to accept a few pamphlets.

But for every Sergeant Zayas, there is a recruiter like Sgt. Joshua Harris, 29, a former personnel administrator in a New Jersey recruiting station, who struggles when talking to strangers. Seven weeks of instruction in approaching prospects helped him, he said. But many recruiters said few soldiers possess the skills they need.

Recruiters are paid about $30,000 a year, plus housing and other allowances, including $450 a month in special-duty pay for recruiting. They live where they recruit, often hundreds of miles from a base.

These men, and occasionally women, spend several hours a day cold-calling high school students, whose phone numbers are provided by schools under the No Child Left Behind Law. They also must "prospect" at malls, at high schools, colleges and wherever else young people gather.

The follow-up process often takes months. Though parents do not have to sign off on the decision to join, recruiters said it is virtually impossible to enlist a new recruit without their approval. Over dinners and on the phone, they make the Army's case over and over to win parents' support.

If they succeed, they are responsible for bringing the recruit in for 5:30 a.m. processing , organizing physical fitness training or, in the case of one California recruiter, taking 3 a.m. phone calls to comfort a recruit crying over a breakup with her boyfriend.

The whims are many from the young, restless and uncertain, experts said.

Recruiters have "the only military occupation that deals with the civilian world entirely," said Charles Moskos, a military sociologist at Northwestern University.

Even before the war, recruiters contacted on average of 120 people before landing an active-duty recruit, Army data showed. That number is growing, recruiters said.

One recruiter in the New York area said that when he steps outside his office for a cigarette, he often is barraged with epithets from passers-by angry about the war.

In January, the brother-in-law of a prospective recruit lashed into him. "He swore at me," the recruiter said, "and said that he would rather have his brother-in-law in jail for selling crack than in the Army."

The recruiter said, when out of uniform, he often lies about his profession. "I tell them I work in human resources," he said.

Still, they must sign up two recruits a month. Anyone with outstanding criminal cases, health problems or poor test scores is disqualified. Most months, at least one must have a high school diploma and score in the top 50 percent of an aptitude test.

Lt. Col. William F. Adams, a psychologist at the United States Military Academy who has counseled recruiters, empathized with the pressure but said it came with the job. Of the recruiting goal, he said, "It is not a goal or a target; it is a mission. If you don't do it, you're a failure."

A December report from the commanding officers overseeing about 40 recruiters in West Houston reflects the mission-driven culture of recruitment. Sent by e-mail to station commanders, it started by declaring, "We can sum up the month of Dec with one word - Unprofessional!"

The document noted that in a month's-end drive to meet quota, seven recruits had appeared for processing. Of those, two did not meet weight requirements and needed a waiver, while two others lacked paperwork.

"We are processing crap," the report stated, "double and triple waivers, waivers which get approved and the applicant refuses to enlist (two this month), waivers on people with more than 20 charges, etc. We are putting these people in our Army!"

The cause, it said, was a lack of leadership: "I challenged you to fix your stations. No one has stepped forward."

Asked to respond to the document, the Houston recruiting battalion declined.

The report was followed on Jan. 6 by an e-mail message from Command Sgt. Maj. Frank Norris, the second in command of 212 recruiters in and around Houston, threatening to deny all requests for leave.

"There are no excuses and I am tired of entertaining such lack of discipline and focus," he said in the e-mail message forwarded to The Times by a recruiter who received it. "Let this serve notice that any station commander that is holding this great battalion back will not be a station commander in this battalion very much longer."

Neither document contained any mention of the war, nor other possible obstacles. Sergeant Major Norris declined through an Army spokesman to be interviewed. General Rochelle said most battalions do not resort to such tactics.

Brawling Over Prospects

The recruiter in New York who had considered suicide said he has seen at least four marriages break up among the 9 or 10 recruiters in his area since 2002. He said he has been subjected to threats of discharge and "zero-roller training," when superiors comb through recruiters' phone logs and other materials, then lambaste them for failing to enlist anyone.

After more than a decade in the military, he said he still loves the Army. "It's just this detail," he said. "This is hell."

A Texas recruiter - a gruff man whose home is decorated with military commendations - said that he suffers from severe headaches lasting up to six hours. "I never had them until I got out here," he said. "They're from recruiting."

He and other recruiters said they sometimes feel angry enough to hit someone. Two years ago, he said, two recruiters in his office brawled over who should get credit for a new recruit. "We call this the pressure plate, like on a land mine," he said, pointing to the recruiter patch on his uniform. "If you push it too hard, we'll explode."

His wife, like spouses in California and elsewhere, is furious at what she sees as the Army's lack of support. "What we are doing is good; recruiting is good and important work," she said. "But the fact of the matter is that it's killing our soldiers."

Many of the recruiters said they have asked for other assignments. One of them is Sgt. Latrail Hayes. Now 27, Sergeant Hayes enlisted in the Army 10 years ago, out of high school in Virginia Beach, continuing a family tradition of military service. He volunteered to be a recruiter in 2000, after 52 jumps as a paratrooper, and at first his easy charm, appeals to patriotism and offers of Army benefits enticed dozens of recruits.

But Sergeant Hayes said he started rethinking his assignment as the war went on. Mothers required months, not weeks, of persuasion. And stories he heard from some of his recruits who had gone to Iraq and Afghanistan made him reluctant to pursue prospects by emphasizing the Army's benefits. When his cousin, whom he had recruited, returned from Iraq with psychological trauma, he filed for conscientious objector status in June, to get a new assignment.

The application was rejected in November. Now, instead of serving 20 years in the Army, he intends to leave in December, when his tour ends. "There's a deep human connection when you try to persuade someone to do something you've done," he said. "So when it turns into something else - maybe even the opposite - it's difficult."

Some recruiters said they witnessed more "improprieties," which the Army defines as any grossly negligent or intentional act or omission used to enlist unqualified applicants or grant benefits to those who are ineligible. They said recruiters falsified documents and told prospects to lie about medical conditions or police records.

An analysis of Army records shows that the number of impropriety allegations doubled to 1,023 in 2004 from 490 in 2000. Initial investigations substantiated 459 violations of Army enlistment standards in 2004, up from 186 in 2000. In 135 cases, recruiters - often more than one - were judged to have committed improprieties, up from 113 in 2000. The rest were defined as errors.

General Rochelle acknowledged that the impropriety figures "may be a reflection of some of the pressure that is perceived at the lower levels." He also said that the increase could partly be explained by improvements in tracking violations.

"We hold every recruiter responsible for being a living and breathing example of Army values," he said.

The quotas will remain unchanged, General Rochelle said. But the commanders should be held responsible for finding ways to meet their goals. "It does no good to pass the heat, as it were, or the correction down to the individual soldier," he said.

The Army announced in September that it would add about 1,200 active-duty and Reserve recruiters to the field. It has also more than doubled bonuses for three-year enlistments to $15,000 and increased its advertising budget.

For the first time since 1998, the Army has lowered its standards, last week increasing its age limit for Reserve and National Guard recruits to 39. Last year, it agreed to accept thousands more recruits without high school diplomas.

In a small concession to recruiters, Army brass announced in February that they can trade the green slacks and shirts that they said made them feel and look like security guards for battle fatigues.

General Rochelle said the uniform swap was part of a new recruiting strategy to stress patriotism over salesmanship and enlist veterans to help make the Army's pitch. "It's less materialistic, in terms of the focus, once we get a recruiter face to face with a young American," he said.

The recruiter in Texas, for one, said the changes are too little too late. He said he would prefer to be in Iraq.

"I'd rather be getting shot at, because at least I'd be with my guys," he said. "I'm infantry. That's what I'm trained to do."
 

neverteaseit

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smurphy iraq is not the only mission the military performs which i am sure u know. stateside duties still have to be performed. for every rotation that is activated u need support personnel to man these sites, admin, training etc. it is a never ending cycle. we have troopes in korea, europe, japan everywhere. these bases just cannot go unmanned.

as marine said the reserves are still part of the active duty cycle. the national guard is now playing the part of filler i would assume. you cannot send 150,000 + troops into iraq for 12-18 months then expect them to head back again once they are back home. rotations overlap. to allow for new rotations to acclimate, train with outgoing command etc.. so in all reality at one time u may have nearly 300,000 to 500,000 commited in an 18 month window for the mission at hand. then the process starts over again while this cycle is going on. now do the numbers and its easy to see why the gaurd and reserve are activated. it is not so easy to explain unless u understand the procedure.

also for every guard unit activated nearly 20-30% are non-deployable. so now you have find soldiers to fill in the gaps. the gaurd has cooked the books for years on soldiers meeting minimum requirements. thus when they are activated the truth comes out. the reasons is call budgets. reserves money comes form federal side. guard money, while some is federal based upon strength, alot is state.

case in point. i was activated with the ga. national guard. 4,000 plus of us activated. from various states and puerto rico. come time to mobolize nearly 600 soldiers were deemed non-fit for various health and other issues. so now u have to go and find another 600 to replace them. not so easy to do.

alot of guard members were activated for homeland security after 911. most seem to forget about this. alot of these units had been on active duty for nearly 2 years at a time involuntarily. by law they cannot be held on active duty no longer than 720 days i think , but in that area. unless they extend themselves and a cottad ( co-t-tad ) is done on them.

it is really hard to explain all this but it is not as easy as it seems on the surface, to those sitting at home. there is alot more involved then just sending 300,000 active duty personnel over at one time. this is were the cutbacks have hurt. the armed forces was cut and if those soldiers were still around then the possibilty of the guard going would have been less lkely. but as it seems this may drag on for years, it would have happened eventually.
 
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marine

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I'm not putting a "bullsh*t spin" on anything. i am questioning your sources and your half truths.

And yes, when you sit there and play the "i would, if i, i should" lines and spout off about what a bullsh*t war this is and how degenarates can get in the military - yes, I take a lot of offense to you and your comments.

I am disgusted with armchair quarterbacks talking about the military and not knowing what they are talking about.

Minorities have a tough time getting into colleges and universities... the military will let them join. So what happens? the military gets frigging raped in the media for targeting minorities. Piss on that.

I'm done.
 

neverteaseit

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also to add smurphy after reading your post, combat personnel are far from all that is in or required in Iraq. we have vetrnarians who educate and assist farmers, supply and logistics, medical personnel (phychiatrists, drs, nurses etc.), customs, k-9 helpers, mps, truck drivers, mechanics, admin personnel, cooks ( yes some places kbr won't even go) communication personnel, bomb disposal teams (eod), engineers (machinist, plumbers, carpenters, electricians), computer experts. it goes on and on. we are not only there fighting the insurgents but also rebuilding and educating the iraqi's. i am sure most of this u know. but it very complex to say the least. subcontractors do not do everything. most subcontractors are there to support the military so the military has more free personnel to support the mission in iraq.

if i could have i would have made a home movie showing this then maybe some would have a better understanding of what actually is going on. its not all just dodging bullets, rpg's and mortars. far from it. it is actually quite impressive what is going on considering the circumstances.
 

The Sponge

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Another one there marine. I also am reading some of the rotten tactics some of these recruiters use. Just dispicable.

Army enlists more low-scorers


By David Wood / Chicago Tribune

WASHINGTON -- At a time when the Defense Department is calling for "the best and the brightest" to fight today's unconventional wars, the Army is signing up thousands of low-scoring recruits, who historically have performed less well, to meet its recruiting goals.

Only two years ago, the Army accepted fewer than 500 of these recruits, who scored below the 31st percentile on the Armed Forces Qualification Test given all recruits. Those scores put them in Category IV, the lowest the military can accept.

When the fiscal year ends next month, the Army will have enlisted 3,200 Category IV recruits, Army officials said. That amounts to 4 percent of the 80,000 volunteers the Army will enlist this year. Last year, amid widespread recruiting difficulties, the Army accepted 2,900 Category IV recruits.

This year the Army, still having difficulty recruiting because of the war in Iraq and plentiful jobs in the civilian economy, boosted its enlistment bonuses and other incentives in an effort to meet its recruiting goals. The Army announced last week that it had met its recruiting goals in July for the 14th straight month and is running ahead of its year-to-date recruiting mission by 2,355 soldiers.

But if the Army had not accepted Category IV recruits, it would have missed those goals.

Defense Department and Army officials declined to respond directly to the new numbers, which the Army released in response to questions.

The willingness to accept lower-scoring recruits seemed to contradict top Defense Department guidance that demands a sharp increase in soldiers' ability to master languages, adapt to different cultural sensitivities and endure high stress in places like Iraq where wrong decisions can have huge repercussions.

Accepting more Category IV soldiers "is a problem--we know it is a problem," said David Segal, a military behavioral scientist and director of the Center for Research on Military Organization at the University of Maryland.

"It is more difficult to be a soldier," he said. "Smarter people do it better, particularly in combat where they are better able to respond with common sense to situations that their training didn't prepare them for."

The Army has long said that the "best and brightest" does not include "Cat IV" recruits, who have a higher probability of becoming disciplinary problems, of failing to absorb training and of dropping out before the end of their first tour of duty.

Until recently, Pentagon officials could boast of having reduced the intake of Category IV recruits, from 33 percent in fiscal 1979 to 1 percent or less through the 1990s.

In a statement Tuesday, Lt. Col. Ellen Krenke, a Pentagon spokeswoman, acknowledged that "individuals in AFQT Category IV do not perform as well on the job" as those who score higher. But she said Category IV soldiers "have successfully met services' training standards."

On Monday, congressional investigators said military recruiters have increasingly resorted to overly aggressive tactics and even criminal activity to attract new troops.

According to service data provided to the Government Accountability Office, substantiated cases of wrongdoing jumped by more than half, from about 400 cases in 2004 to almost 630 in 2005. Criminal cases--such as sexual harassment or falsifying medical records--more than doubled in those years, jumping from 30 incidents to 70.

The GAO warned that reports of recruiter misconduct likely are too low because the services do not track such cases and incidents go unreported.
 

djv

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Over 7000 Iraqi Civilians dead in last two months. Maybe they should have lived in a nice green zone some place. If our government knows how to count over 34000 for year. They refuse to call it a civil war that have our guys caught in middle. I here someone mention security jobs in Iraq. If your willing to take risk these companies pay big bucks. Some guys making 6 figures. Some Ex G I's are grabbing some those jobs. Do you blame them. Army Pay around $25000 and up.. For almost same job $75000 and up.
 

The Sponge

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I'm not putting a "bullsh*t spin" on anything. i am questioning your sources and your half truths.

And yes, when you sit there and play the "i would, if i, i should" lines and spout off about what a bullsh*t war this is and how degenarates can get in the military - yes, I take a lot of offense to you and your comments.

I am disgusted with armchair quarterbacks talking about the military and not knowing what they are talking about.

Minorities have a tough time getting into colleges and universities... the military will let them join. So what happens? the military gets frigging raped in the media for targeting minorities. Piss on that.

I'm done.

where where where did i say "i would" "i should" ? Where where where did i call these kids degenerates? I sad both kids were rich.... the one is filthy rich. You know what cous the military needs guys like me to stick up for them instead of guys like you misleading kids to solve your quotas. Im done to. You have it all figured out. You dont know dick about the real world.
 

marine

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and I will also chime in that a lot of times these "incentives and lying to recruits" that people claim to happen all the time...

My co-recruiter and I used to test the theory of retention on some kids that we thought were questionable.

One of us would go in the back room and talk with the kid and tell them all about the pay, incentives, rules, enlistment standards, sign on bonuses... everything. we read it from a damn script.
It took about 15 minutes.

Then, we would change places and the kid would tell the other recruiter all the incentives and pay and things that he expected to get/or felt he was eligible for if they enlisted.

Lemme tell you... we heard some crazy shit.

So when kids sit there and cry and cry and say their recruiter lied to them about this and that. Odds are, they had a case of "selective hearing" and are not putting all the info on the table.
 

The Sponge

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Over 7000 Iraqi Civilians dead in last two months. Maybe they should have lived in a nice green zone some place. If our government knows how to count over 34000 for year. They refuse to call it a civil war that have our guys caught in middle. I here someone mention security jobs in Iraq. If your willing to take risk these companies pay big bucks. Some guys making 6 figures. Some Ex G I's are grabbing some those jobs. Do you blame them. Army Pay around $25000 and up.. For almost same job $75000 and up.

oh dj this kind of comment brought me a lot of heat. You better not say stuff like this.
 

marine

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Jul 13, 1999
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I agree with a lot of stuff you say but not to educate yourself and just go over there like a pigeon is not my bag. I know id have a lot more pep in my step in afghanastan than i would have over in Iraq. If i was over in Afghanstan and they said go to Iraq id tell them to take me right to prison. Im not gonna fight a war for a bunch of scumbags who don't give two shits about those iraq's. There is a new documentary coming out about the war profiteers. I suggest you and everyone give this a look.

right here.

and as for the lowering of the test scores... I agree. they did lower the standards.

As society dumbs itself down, acceptance standards need to be redone.
 

marine

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Jul 13, 1999
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Over 7000 Iraqi Civilians dead in last two months. Maybe they should have lived in a nice green zone some place. If our government knows how to count over 34000 for year. They refuse to call it a civil war that have our guys caught in middle. I here someone mention security jobs in Iraq. If your willing to take risk these companies pay big bucks. Some guys making 6 figures. Some Ex G I's are grabbing some those jobs. Do you blame them. Army Pay around $25000 and up.. For almost same job $75000 and up.

For the umpteenth time, it is NOT THE SAME FVCKINGI JOB!

I've hired journeymen to go over to Kabul to lay pipe and all that trade stuff... its 7 days a week, 14 hours a day working and you sleep on a frigging rock. you want body armor? go buy it your self
you want clothes to wear? go buy it yourself
you want meals to eat? go buy it yourself

these guys are not the soldier's of fortune that the media wants you to believe.
 

The Sponge

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Aug 24, 2006
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and I will also chime in that a lot of times these "incentives and lying to recruits" that people claim to happen all the time...

My co-recruiter and I used to test the theory of retention on some kids that we thought were questionable.

One of us would go in the back room and talk with the kid and tell them all about the pay, incentives, rules, enlistment standards, sign on bonuses... everything. we read it from a damn script.
It took about 15 minutes.

Then, we would change places and the kid would tell the other recruiter all the incentives and pay and things that he expected to get/or felt he was eligible for if they enlisted.

Lemme tell you... we heard some crazy shit.

So when kids sit there and cry and cry and say their recruiter lied to them about this and that. Odds are, they had a case of "selective hearing" and are not putting all the info on the table.

After reading a lot of these recruiting misleading tactics recruiters use what i said about that kid was nothing compared to what i read. The kid i know got off easy. Plus i never said a recruiter told him he would wave his fines it might have been the judge im just not sure yet.
 
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