Auto Bailout Hearings

dawgball

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Senator to 3 Auto CEOs: How many of you travelled here on a private jet?

All three raise hands.

Senator as a follow-up: How many of you currently have plans to sell those jets?

<crickets>
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Cost of GM's Chairman & CEO Wagoner's trip to DC to explain to the senate how they are going to be more responsible with spending?

$20,000

:director:
 

MadJack

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They won't be buying Superbowl ads though :shrug:

:mj07:

Is there anybody here that would buy a car from these guys at this point? The warranty could be useless.

Let them go BK, IMO.

TIA
 

dawgball

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What kills me is that pretty much everyone is in agreement that this is a terrible idea and that no changes will be made.

But guess what?

You know it will pass.

I just don't get it.

I'll state it again: I have a feeling that I will not be living in this country for the rest of my life.
 

MadJack

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yup, they'll get the bandaide and we'll pay for it. come march, they will need help again. crazy shit going on.
 

StevieD

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It is like they are stealing the country. I don't know when this will end. The free market would have taken care of this. No help in sight for the little guy.:shrug:
 

ga_ben

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The auto companies don't deserve a nickel of the public's dime. Let 'em go bankrupt and pray they can get financing while they restructure. Get the Unions out of the picture. Also does anyone else find it appalling listening to these impotent pricks on Capitol Hill preaching to these auto CEOs. Pot meet kettle. Pricks.
 

dawgball

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This is the curse of bigger government. If we continue to vote for either of the two major parties, the blood is on our hands as much as anyone. Both of our two current parties want nothing except more power, control, and money to flow through the hill.

The banking bailout was pitched as helping all of those poor souls who bought into the marketing pitch of buying more house than they could afford.

The auto bailout is somewhat being pitched as helping out all of the blue collar workers there and the retirees.

In my opinion, we are only encouraging more bad behavior. If you work in one of these two industries it may be time to start prepping your resume and looking elsewhere. At least get yourself off the sinking ship.
 

hedgehog

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Senator to 3 Auto CEOs: How many of you travelled here on a private jet?

All three raise hands.

Senator as a follow-up: How many of you currently have plans to sell those jets?

<crickets>
================
Cost of GM's Chairman & CEO Wagoner's trip to DC to explain to the senate how they are going to be more responsible with spending?

$20,000

:director:

as if executives that are wealthy beyond our wildest dreams would travel to the hearings other than 1st class.

I hope they do not get bailed out, they need to file chapter 11, reorganize into one and go forward. Early next year, I bet you can get a hell of a deal on a big SUV, at least I hope so.
 

MadJack

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as if executives that are wealthy beyond our wildest dreams would travel to the hearings other than 1st class.

I hope they do not get bailed out, they need to file chapter 11, reorganize into one and go forward. Early next year, I bet you can get a hell of a deal on a big SUV, at least I hope so.
1st class my ass. try private jet.

and the SUV's are already being given away.
 

hedgehog

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1st class my ass. try private jet.

and the SUV's are already being given away.


I meant 1st class figuratively, private jet, hypocrites

I priced one about a month ago and they are definitely not giving them away, loaded up Tahoe 2008 42K MSRP , 2008 Sequoia 54K

I thought about offering them half on the Tahoe just to see if they wanted to negotiate.:shrug: hell, I could probably go by there today and still see the same ones I drove a month ago, still on the lot, just not motivated right now to see what happens with the big 3.
 

ImFeklhr

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as if executives that are wealthy beyond our wildest dreams would travel to the hearings other than 1st class.

I hope they do not get bailed out, they need to file chapter 11, reorganize into one and go forward. Early next year, I bet you can get a hell of a deal on a big SUV, at least I hope so.

Ack, that is part of the problem. The Big 3 companies have been in bed with the oil companies the last 25 years, squashing fuel efficient car technology left and right. They HAD technology, refused to use it, and the Japanese picked it up and ran with it.

I know you love your SUV's and that's ok, we can still have big cars, but the efficient car clearly needs more emphasis in American cars. If we are going to put government money into this industry we need to force them to change their business model.
 

The Sponge

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With the money these CEO's steal they should of paid their own way.

Shame on u Stevie. Don't you know it is much easier to blame unions and the working man who have given concessions the last 15 years, while these CEO's salaries have quadripled? Kinda like blaming the financial crisis on home owners and then as soon as we bail these crooked Bank Ceo's out with the money, the home owners are left in the cold and these snakes, with no shame, spend our money just like when they had it before. Problem is that to many of these clowns in this country always fall for the "blame the working guy" scenario. They have that caviar taste and someday they think they are gonna be one of these billionaire CEO's. It also has nothing todo with these crooks being in bed with the oil companies;) . The other top crooks in our country. You have a green president in there now, so the gas prices will stay nice and low to try and break his back. Same shit these cocksuckers always do when people cut back their use. This gets these fools like Hedgepod to forget the 4 dollars an hour just a short year ago, and go buy one of those gas guzzlers. Wash, rinse, repeat. By the way what has changed with these gas prices? Did everyone change and start burning wood? Pathetic and this price gouging will someday happen again and the same ridiculous fools ,will blame the same people they blamed the last time this happen. The consumers of course. The Fox news of the world sure have them trained well. Do you know if Weasel is still chanting dig baby dig?
 
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StevieD

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Shame on u Stevie. Don't you know it is much easier to blame unions and the working man who have given concessions the last 15 years, while these CEO's salaries have quadripled? Kinda like blaming the financial crisis on home owners and then as soon as we bail these crooked Bank Ceo's out with the money, the home owners are left in the cold and these snakes, with no shame, spend our money just like when they had it before. Problem is that to many of these clowns in this country always fall for the "blame the working guy" scenario. They have that caviar taste and someday they think they are gonna be one of these billionaire CEO's. It also has nothing todo with these crooks being in bed with the oil companies;) . The other top crooks in our country. You have a green president in there now, so the gas prices will stay nice and low to try and break his back. Same shit these cocksuckers always do when people cut back their use. This gets these fools like Hedgepod to forget the 4 dollars an hour just a short year ago, and go buy one of those gas guzzlers. Wash, rinse, repeat. By the way what has changed with these gas prices? Did everyone change and start burning wood? Pathetic and this price gouging will someday happen again and the same ridiculous fools ,will blame the same people they blamed the last time this happen. The consumers of course. The Fox news of the world sure have them trained well. Do you know if Weasel is still chanting dig baby dig?

Sponge, I have been ridiculed on here for blaming CEO's for being the crooks they are. If they were so good we wouldn't be in this trouble in any of the industries. But you raise a great point, did China suddenly stop burning oil? Why are prices so low. And when we complained that those high gass prices were affecting everything again it fell on deaf ears. Now day after day we hear that people aren't spending money. That's because it all went to the oil guys! I guess we stoped using gas when the price started to fall?
What kills me is it is so easy to see through yet we are letting them steal the country.
Oh the furniture makers need a bailout because no one is buying furniture. No one is in Vegas, they need a bailout. No one is playing miniature golf they need a bailout.
 

djv

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Private Jet Detroit to DC 350000 buck-o's.
That's times 3. Dum chit's could have rode together. So sell the planes. Maybe get a couple mill each. Penuts. They want 25 billion. So lets blame it on the 25 buck a hour guy. Hell lets not put the blame on the million dolllar babies running the busniess into the ground. Throw the top mangement out. Get some new ones into run the places. Have them come up with a 1, 3 , 5 year plan of action. Then give them a loan they need not a hand out. Since the banking system in this country is broke. This is where they have to come for the money. Remember the poor and weak will inherit the earth. Lets not be into big of a hurry to get there. With unemployment close to 7%. This would get us to 10%. Believe me none of you want to see that.
 

StevieD

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Private Jet Detroit to DC 350000 buck-o's.
That's times 3. Dum chit's could have rode together. So sell the planes. Maybe get a couple mill each. Penuts. They want 25 billion. So lets blame it on the 25 buck a hour guy. Hell lets not put the blame on the million dolllar babies running the busniess into the ground. Throw the top mangement out. Get some new ones into run the places. Have them come up with a 1, 3 , 5 year plan of action. Then give them a loan they need not a hand out. Since the banking system in this country is broke. This is where they have to come for the money. Remember the poor and weak will inherit the earth. Lets not be into big of a hurry to get there. With unemployment close to 7%. This would get us to 10%. Believe me none of you want to see that.

If they go under someone will step in and fill the void. Same with the banks. By keeping them afloat we are prolonging the problem. These CEO's and top managment do not have a clue how to run the business anyway. In any other time they would dragged to the middle of the town and drawn and quartered. Here we call them the achievers and the top 5 percent. Let them fall. It is the only way.
 

djv

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Steve you really want the Banks and auto to go down. I hope you know that's not possiable. I mean the depression of 1929 to 40 would look good.
 

smurphy

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The Big 3 companies have been in bed with the oil companies the last 25 years, squashing fuel efficient car technology left and right. They HAD technology, refused to use it, and the Japanese picked it up and ran with it.

Yep. We know that all to well in California. Amazing to see the execs sitting there telling us what the consumer demand was. In California we were demanding efficient, clean vehicles. We passed laws requiring them. Then the GOP and car companies were able to get those laws wiped out. They should NOT get a bailout. They probably will because we are afraid of the ramifications, but this is 100% their fault and they should be left to fail on their own.
 

RAYMOND

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It costs over $73 per hour on average to employ a union auto worker, according to University of Michigan at Flint economist Mark J. Perry. 'Is it right to tax the average worker making $28.50 to [save the jobs of] workers whose labor cost is over $73 an hour.'"
- CNSNews




Do you think money should come out of your wallet to cover greedy union fat-cats?

The United Auto Workers Union says "YES"... to the tune of $25 billion.

And right now, as you read this letter, Big Labor is aggressively twisting arms in Washington D.C. to make it happen.

You've heard the nightly news.

You've heard the desperate reports that $25 billion - or even more - of your hard-earned tax dollars are needed right now or the auto industry may collapse by the New Year.

You've heard the horror stories... decent hard-working Americans will lose their jobs if something isn't done this very second....

Well... it's not quite that simple.

C. Edmund Wright, with the Internet blog, The American Thinker wrote:

"Make no mistake, this is about the unions, the whole unions and nothing but the unions. It has nothing to do with what a sustainable U.S. auto industry looks like."

But more to the point, will giving Detroit a pound of flesh avert economic disaster?

Former Presidential candidate Mitt Romney says the opposite is true.

In a recent Opinion Editorial published in The New York Times, Romney says if Detroit gets your tax dollars as requested, "you can kiss the American automotive industry goodbye. It won't go overnight, but its demise will be virtually guaranteed." [Emphasis Mine]

Romney goes on:

"... the automakers will stay the course - the suicidal course of declining market shares, insurmountable labor and retiree burdens, technology atrophy, product inferiority and never-ending job losses. Detroit needs a turnaround, not a check."

Peter Flaherty of the National Legal and Policy Center agrees:

"If he [President-elect Obama] provides a short-term fix now on the UAW's terms, these companies are doomed. Later, he will face requests for even more taxpayer money."

And the irony here is that hard-working folks like us only get insult on top of injury.

C. Edmund Wright again:

"Americans who have seen their 401 K's and jobs go away might well balk... Folks will lose patience with semi-skilled assembly line workers retiring in their 50's and living like royalty."

The legendary figure Robin Hood didn't steal from the poor and give to the rich.

A rough economy is not an excuse for stupidity, and it is most certainly NOT an excuse to pander to special interests at American taxpayers' expense!

Tell our elected officials to put an end to the INSANITY right now.


Use the hyperlink below and bombard President George W. Bush and the Republican and Democratic Leadership of the House and Senate with your personalized Blast Faxes.

Tell them that it is INSANITY to tax the average American worker, earning $28.50 per hour to sustain a worker whose labor cost is $73.00 per hour at the behest of a special interest. Tell them that the American taxpayer should not foot the bill to benefit fat-cats with Big Labor.

Yes, the American auto industry is an important part of the U.S. economy. But unless the Unions agree to come down to reality and the Big Three can commit to a sustainable business model, writing them a $25 billion check, care of the American taxpayer, is just throwing good money at bad.

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The Union, The Whole Union And Nothing But The Union.

Lori Roman, a former manager for General Motors, summed it up best in a recent Opinion Editorial published by The Examiner in Washington D.C.

According to Roman:

"[W]e are asking taxpayers who make market-based wages to bail out autoworkers who make wages that do not correlate in any way to their skill level in the workforce. Why should other manufacturing workers who make $15 an hour bail out folks who make about 70% more before benefits?"

Why, indeed.

Particularly when you consider that the United Auto Workers Union (UAW) is refusing to make concessions.

The Financial Times recently wrote:

"The US United Auto Workers (UAW) union has ruled out concessions - at least for the time being - to help rescue the ailing Detroit-based car industry. The union has been emboldened by the election of a Democratic president and a Democratic-controlled Congress."

And why won't the UAW make concessions?

Could it possibly be because higher hourly pay for auto workers translates to higher union dues?

If so, it's not just union dues at stake.

CNSNews quoting Peter Flaherty with NLPC:

"'The union will not allow companies to deploy capital in ways that the market would dictate, such as closing plants and layoffs.' NLPC says the UAW wants additional taxpayer money to enrich health and retirement plans it controls."

Spreading the misery is never sound economic policy.

But in tough economic times, shouldn't we all tighten our belts?

The Washington Post reported on an almost sublimely ridiculous interchange between Senator Bob Corker, Bob Nardelli of Chrysler and Ron Gettelfinger of UAW.

According to The Post :

"Sen. Bob Corker told Chrysler chief Bob Nardelli that one of his lobbyists told him the previous day that, even if a Chrysler plant is shut down, Chrysler still has to pay wages to its union employees. How can you come before us, Corker directed to both Nardelli and UAW chief Ron Gettelfinger, and ask us for $25 billion if you're asking taxpayers to fund this sort of activity?"


Use the hyperlink below and bombard President George W. Bush and the Republican and Democratic Leadership of the House and Senate with your personalized Blast Faxes.

Tell them that it is INSANITY to tax the average American worker, earning $28.50 per hour to sustain a worker whose labor cost is $73.00 per hour at the behest of a special interest. Tell them that the American taxpayer should not foot the bill to benefit fat-cats with Big Labor.

Yes, the American auto industry is an important part of the U.S. economy. But unless the Unions agree to come down to reality and the Big Three can commit to a sustainable business model, writing them a $25 billion check, care of the American taxpayer, is just throwing good money at bad.

SEND MY BLAST FAXES

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And That's Not The Only Activity You're Funding.

Lori Roman in the Opinion Editorial previously quoted - in which she compares giving the UAW government funding to sending an arsonist to put out a fire - gives two prime examples of the activities your tax dollars would continue to fund.

Here's the first:

"The strength of the union and the weakness of management made it impossible to conduct business properly at any level. For instance, I had an employee who punched in his time card and then disappeared."

"The rules were such that I had to spend hours documenting that he was not in his work area. I needed witnesses, timed reports, and plant wide searches all documented in detail.

"After this absurdity I decided to go my own route; I called the corner bar and paged him and he came to the phone. He received a 30-day unpaid lay-off because he was a 'repeat offender.'

"When he returned, he thanked me for the paid vacation. I scoffed, until he explained: (1) He had tried to get the lay off because it was fishing season; (2) The UAW negotiated with GM to give him the time with pay."

But the second incident is even better (or worse as the case may be):

"One afternoon I was helping oversee the plant while upper management was off site. The workers brought an RV into the loading yard with a female 'entertainer' who danced for them and then 'entertained' them in the RV."

"I went to Labor Relations for assistance. The Labor Relations rep pulled out the work rules and asked me which of the rules the men were breaking. None applied directly, of course... There were no consequences...."

Roman's recommendation:

"This is why, with deep regret and sympathy for the many fine folks who work in the auto industry, I think it is time for consequences. Let them file Chapter 11 and reorganize. Don't make taxpayers foot the bill for an incompetent Congress, a greedy union and wimpy managers."


Use the hyperlink below and bombard President George W. Bush and the Republican and Democratic Leadership of the House and Senate with your personalized Blast Faxes.

Tell them that it is INSANITY to tax the average American worker, earning $28.50 per hour to sustain a worker whose labor cost is $73.00 per hour at the behest of a special interest. Tell them that the American taxpayer should not foot the bill to benefit fat-cats with Big Labor.

Yes, the American auto industry is an important part of the U.S. economy. But unless the Unions agree to come down to reality and the Big Three can commit to a sustainable business model, writing them a $25 billion check, care of the American taxpayer, is just throwing good money at bad.

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Is Bankruptcy A Viable Solution?

Roman is not the only one advocating Chapter 11 bankruptcy for these companies.

C. Edmund Wright quoting Arizona Senator Jon Kyl:

"These companies could easily survive under a properly structured re-organization plan. 'We have a mechanism for this' said Arizona Senator Jon Kyl. 'It is called Chapter 11.'"

Mitt Romney:

"A managed bankruptcy may be the only path to the fundamental restructuring the industry needs. It would permit the companies to shed excess labor, pension and real estate costs. The federal government should provide guarantees for post-bankruptcy financing and assure car buyers that their warranties are not at risk."

"In a managed bankruptcy, the federal government would propel newly competitive and viable automakers, rather than seal their fate...."

There you have it.

If done the right way, Chapter 11 could actually save the U.S. auto industry.

But throwing money at Labor Unions and companies that refuse to take steps to become solvent is not the solution. It's simply an invitation to throw more money at that same company down the road.

Steve Moore recently wrote in the Wall Street Journal:

"It's the model that Europe used in the 80s and 90's. Anytime an industry would get in distress, they would throw money at it. They haven't created a single new job in two decades, whereas the dynamic U.S. economy with entrepreneurship but also creative destruction has created 40 million jobs in the last 25 years."

Senator Richard Shelby puts it another way:

"I am concerned that, once again, we are about to employ the 'ready, fire, aim' approach to problem solving."

Shelby hit the nail on the head.

Now let's make sure the rest of our elected officials understand as well.


Use the hyperlink below and bombard President George W. Bush and the Republican and Democratic Leadership of the House and Senate with your personalized Blast Faxes.

Tell them that it is INSANITY to tax the average American worker, earning $28.50 per hour to sustain a worker whose labor cost is $73.00 per hour at the behest of a special interest. Tell them that the American taxpayer should not foot the bill to benefit fat-cats with Big Labor.

Yes, the American auto industry is an important part of the U.S. economy. But unless the Unions agree to come down to reality and the Big Three can commit to a sustainable business model, writing them a $25 billion check, care of the American taxpayer, is just throwing good money at bad.
 
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