You want me to keep posting on his business career? And I don't count AWOL from National Gaurd service as "flying jets for the service of the country."
Barack Hussain Obama
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You want me to keep posting on his business career? And I don't count AWOL from National Gaurd service as "flying jets for the service of the country."
:mj07: :mj07: :mj07: :mj07: :mj07:
classic DTB...here is the rest of the article
"Why 1st Lt. Bush stopped flying F-102 fighters remains murky despite the release on Friday of more than 400 pages of records detailing his Guard service from the time he enlisted until he was discharged.
An examination by USA TODAY of all the Bush records released to the public and interviews with pilots, Bush's Guard comrades and military personnel experts suggests Bush was treated differently from most pilots:
? Bush was accepted into pilot school even though he scored in the 25th percentile on a standardized test. The test was given to all prospective pilots and there was no specific score that disqualified a candidate. In addition, Bush had two arrests for college pranks and four traffic offenses before applying for pilot training. Former and current military pilots say it was uncommon for an applicant to be approved for training with such a record.
? There is no record of a formal procedure called a "flying evaluation board," which normally would have been convened once Bush stopped flying in April 1972.
? Bush's records do not show he was given another job in the Air Guard once he quit flying. Pilots and Bush comrades say his records should reflect some type of new duties he was assigned.
Asked for an explanation about why Bush stopped flying, the White House said Bush "served admirably" in the Guard, was given permission by commanders to fulfill his obligations in ways that did not involve flying and was honorably discharged. "President Bush is proud of his service," said Dan Bartlett, communications director.
'Highly unusual' circumstances
Bush, whose father was in Congress at the time, was selected for Air Force pilot training, a highly competitive process, despite the speeding tickets and automobile accidents. He had also been arrested for two incidents considered college pranks: stealing a wreath in New Haven, Conn., and rowdiness at a college football game.
The combination of arrests and traffic violations and the score in the bottom quarter of those who took the pilot exam usually would have cast doubt on most applicants who were applying for pilot training, four former and current National Guard fighter pilots and one former Air Force pilot said. All served in the 1970s.
After Bush stopped flying fighter jets in April 1972 and did not take an annual physical examination required of all pilots, the Air Force should have required a hearing known as a flying evaluation board to determine his fitness to fly. Because the federal government spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to train each pilot, it typically did not allow them to stop flying without a formal proceeding. Bush's records do not mention a flying evaluation board.
The president's advisers and friends have explained that Bush stopped flying because his unit was phasing out the F-102 in 1972. They also say he was not able to get a required flight physical in Alabama, where his records show he was granted permission to train in the fall of 1972. Bartlett said there was no need for a physical exam because Bush stopped flying.
Guard records, however, show pilots in Bush's unit in Texas were still flying the F-102 in 1974, a year after Bush left the Guard.
And Bush would likely have been able to get a flight doctor in Alabama to give him a physical. The White House released records last week showing that Bush had received a dental exam at Dannelly Air National Guard Base in Montgomery, Ala., in January 1973.
Pilots who stop flying are given other Guard duties. In Air Force jargon, it's called DNIF, or Duties Not to Include Flying, which is a written order. There is no indication in Bush's records that his supervisors assigned him another job. Aides say Bush has told them that once he stopped flying, he performed "odds and ends" for commanders whose names he can't recall.
So far just one Alabama Guard member, John Calhoun, has come forward with specific recollections of seeing Bush on duty at Dannelly. He said he saw him eight to 10 times from May to October 1972.
John Richardson, a former Air Guard, Air Force and Air Reserve fighter pilot who served from 1978 to 2001, said regulations for Air Guard pilots during the early 1970s were much more relaxed than they are today. But even by the standards of the time, Richardson said, Bush's selection for pilot training and the circumstances under which he stopped flying are "highly unusual."
When Bush joined the National Guard in 1968, the United States was losing more than 250 troops a week in the Vietnam War. The combat deaths disproportionately excluded the sons of privileged families, some of whom used family connections to enlist in the Guard, which was rarely called for Vietnam duty. At that time, before the all-volunteer military was created, the Pentagon used draftees to fill its need for forces in Vietnam.
When Bush applied for membership in the Texas Air National Guard, it was collegial, almost exclusively white and, like other Air Guard units around the USA, far less professional than today.
"The attitude of a typical unit was more like a flying club than a professional military organization," said Chuck Devlaming, a Florida attorney who served two tours of duty in Vietnam and flew fighters for the Air Force and Air Guard from 1968 to 1988.
Devlaming also said, however, that it would be inaccurate to describe Bush or his comrades as performing safe duty during wartime. Flying a fighter jet anywhere, he said, is inherently dangerous.
The unit that Bush was assigned to in Texas, the 147th Fighter Group, defended the continental USA from enemy bomber attacks. Its pilots flew a hard-to-fly fighter jet called the F-102 Delta Dagger. Because most pilots who flew for the Air Guard were part-time officers who had other jobs, commanders were more lax about records and the whereabouts of pilots than Air Force pilots.
Bush's peers remember him as a good flier who, in his first two years as a pilot in 1970-71, flew his share of missions from Ellington Air Force Base in Houston.
Failed to retake physical
Then something happened.
In the spring of 1972, Bush's records show he stopped showing up for drills at his unit in Texas at about the time he requested a transfer to an Alabama Air National Guard unit. Military records indicate he requested the transfer so he could work for the political campaign of Winton "Red" Blount, a Republican candidate for the Senate and a friend of Bush's father.
Bush's last flight physical, taken in 1971, expired on July 6, 1972. He did not renew it, as required of all military pilots, which is noted in his National Guard records. He was suspended from flying in August for missing the exam.
Richardson, the former Air Guard pilot, said it is not unheard of for Guard pilots to stop flying for months at a time. Some are airline pilots and need to adjust their schedules; others get called away by their employers. But it is rare for a pilot to fail to take a required physical, even one who knew he would be taking a short hiatus from flying, Richardson said.
White House press secretary Scott McClellan said Thursday that "there was no need for a flight exam" because Bush had moved to Alabama and was to do "equivalent duty" that didn't require him to fly.
A contemporary of Bush, Dean Roome, a former Texas Air National Guard fighter pilot, was Bush's roommate when they were flying in Houston. He said that during the first half of his career, Bush was a model officer. Roome and another Bush contemporary, retired Texas Air National Guard Col. Maurice Udell, vouched for Bush's military service in the fall of 2000 at the request of the Bush campaign after the Boston Globe raised questions about an apparent gap in his service from May 1972 to April 1973.
During a telephone interview with USA TODAY in 2002, Roome described Bush's career as mercurial; the first three years were outstanding, the final two troubled. "You wonder if you know who George Bush is," Roome said.
"I think he digressed after awhile," he said. "In the first half, he was gung-ho. ... Where George failed was to fulfill his obligation as a pilot. It was an irrational time in his life."
Contacted by e-mail last week, Roome pulled back from those comments. He wrote that he admires Bush, that the president met his obligations in the Guard and that he does not want to be seen as attacking him. "Only George W. Bush knows why he was unable to continue flying in the Guard," Roome wrote."
classic DTB...here is the rest of the article
"Why 1st Lt. Bush stopped flying F-102 fighters remains murky despite the release on Friday of more than 400 pages of records detailing his Guard service from the time he enlisted until he was discharged.
An examination by USA TODAY of all the Bush records released to the public and interviews with pilots, Bush's Guard comrades and military personnel experts suggests Bush was treated differently from most pilots:
? Bush was accepted into pilot school even though he scored in the 25th percentile on a standardized test. The test was given to all prospective pilots and there was no specific score that disqualified a candidate. In addition, Bush had two arrests for college pranks and four traffic offenses before applying for pilot training. Former and current military pilots say it was uncommon for an applicant to be approved for training with such a record.
? There is no record of a formal procedure called a "flying evaluation board," which normally would have been convened once Bush stopped flying in April 1972.
? Bush's records do not show he was given another job in the Air Guard once he quit flying. Pilots and Bush comrades say his records should reflect some type of new duties he was assigned.
Asked for an explanation about why Bush stopped flying, the White House said Bush "served admirably" in the Guard, was given permission by commanders to fulfill his obligations in ways that did not involve flying and was honorably discharged. "President Bush is proud of his service," said Dan Bartlett, communications director.
'Highly unusual' circumstances
Bush, whose father was in Congress at the time, was selected for Air Force pilot training, a highly competitive process, despite the speeding tickets and automobile accidents. He had also been arrested for two incidents considered college pranks: stealing a wreath in New Haven, Conn., and rowdiness at a college football game.
The combination of arrests and traffic violations and the score in the bottom quarter of those who took the pilot exam usually would have cast doubt on most applicants who were applying for pilot training, four former and current National Guard fighter pilots and one former Air Force pilot said. All served in the 1970s.
After Bush stopped flying fighter jets in April 1972 and did not take an annual physical examination required of all pilots, the Air Force should have required a hearing known as a flying evaluation board to determine his fitness to fly. Because the federal government spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to train each pilot, it typically did not allow them to stop flying without a formal proceeding. Bush's records do not mention a flying evaluation board.
The president's advisers and friends have explained that Bush stopped flying because his unit was phasing out the F-102 in 1972. They also say he was not able to get a required flight physical in Alabama, where his records show he was granted permission to train in the fall of 1972. Bartlett said there was no need for a physical exam because Bush stopped flying.
Guard records, however, show pilots in Bush's unit in Texas were still flying the F-102 in 1974, a year after Bush left the Guard.
And Bush would likely have been able to get a flight doctor in Alabama to give him a physical. The White House released records last week showing that Bush had received a dental exam at Dannelly Air National Guard Base in Montgomery, Ala., in January 1973.
Pilots who stop flying are given other Guard duties. In Air Force jargon, it's called DNIF, or Duties Not to Include Flying, which is a written order. There is no indication in Bush's records that his supervisors assigned him another job. Aides say Bush has told them that once he stopped flying, he performed "odds and ends" for commanders whose names he can't recall.
So far just one Alabama Guard member, John Calhoun, has come forward with specific recollections of seeing Bush on duty at Dannelly. He said he saw him eight to 10 times from May to October 1972.
John Richardson, a former Air Guard, Air Force and Air Reserve fighter pilot who served from 1978 to 2001, said regulations for Air Guard pilots during the early 1970s were much more relaxed than they are today. But even by the standards of the time, Richardson said, Bush's selection for pilot training and the circumstances under which he stopped flying are "highly unusual."
When Bush joined the National Guard in 1968, the United States was losing more than 250 troops a week in the Vietnam War. The combat deaths disproportionately excluded the sons of privileged families, some of whom used family connections to enlist in the Guard, which was rarely called for Vietnam duty. At that time, before the all-volunteer military was created, the Pentagon used draftees to fill its need for forces in Vietnam.
When Bush applied for membership in the Texas Air National Guard, it was collegial, almost exclusively white and, like other Air Guard units around the USA, far less professional than today.
"The attitude of a typical unit was more like a flying club than a professional military organization," said Chuck Devlaming, a Florida attorney who served two tours of duty in Vietnam and flew fighters for the Air Force and Air Guard from 1968 to 1988.
Devlaming also said, however, that it would be inaccurate to describe Bush or his comrades as performing safe duty during wartime. Flying a fighter jet anywhere, he said, is inherently dangerous.
The unit that Bush was assigned to in Texas, the 147th Fighter Group, defended the continental USA from enemy bomber attacks. Its pilots flew a hard-to-fly fighter jet called the F-102 Delta Dagger. Because most pilots who flew for the Air Guard were part-time officers who had other jobs, commanders were more lax about records and the whereabouts of pilots than Air Force pilots.
Bush's peers remember him as a good flier who, in his first two years as a pilot in 1970-71, flew his share of missions from Ellington Air Force Base in Houston.
Failed to retake physical
Then something happened.
In the spring of 1972, Bush's records show he stopped showing up for drills at his unit in Texas at about the time he requested a transfer to an Alabama Air National Guard unit. Military records indicate he requested the transfer so he could work for the political campaign of Winton "Red" Blount, a Republican candidate for the Senate and a friend of Bush's father.
Bush's last flight physical, taken in 1971, expired on July 6, 1972. He did not renew it, as required of all military pilots, which is noted in his National Guard records. He was suspended from flying in August for missing the exam.
Richardson, the former Air Guard pilot, said it is not unheard of for Guard pilots to stop flying for months at a time. Some are airline pilots and need to adjust their schedules; others get called away by their employers. But it is rare for a pilot to fail to take a required physical, even one who knew he would be taking a short hiatus from flying, Richardson said.
White House press secretary Scott McClellan said Thursday that "there was no need for a flight exam" because Bush had moved to Alabama and was to do "equivalent duty" that didn't require him to fly.
A contemporary of Bush, Dean Roome, a former Texas Air National Guard fighter pilot, was Bush's roommate when they were flying in Houston. He said that during the first half of his career, Bush was a model officer. Roome and another Bush contemporary, retired Texas Air National Guard Col. Maurice Udell, vouched for Bush's military service in the fall of 2000 at the request of the Bush campaign after the Boston Globe raised questions about an apparent gap in his service from May 1972 to April 1973.
During a telephone interview with USA TODAY in 2002, Roome described Bush's career as mercurial; the first three years were outstanding, the final two troubled. "You wonder if you know who George Bush is," Roome said.
"I think he digressed after awhile," he said. "In the first half, he was gung-ho. ... Where George failed was to fulfill his obligation as a pilot. It was an irrational time in his life."
Contacted by e-mail last week, Roome pulled back from those comments. He wrote that he admires Bush, that the president met his obligations in the Guard and that he does not want to be seen as attacking him. "Only George W. Bush knows why he was unable to continue flying in the Guard," Roome wrote."
Dogs, get out of this one. You don't want to go down the 'Bush military hero and business man' path. You will lose a significant portion of your credibility. Some 'centrists' might still be on your side. Try to keep it that way.
Dogs, get out of this one. You don't want to go down the 'Bush military hero and business man' path. You will lose a significant portion of your credibility. Some 'centrists' might still be on your side. Try to keep it that way.
Get out of what--I said he flew jets--you acted like he didn't (whether you didn't want to admit or just that clueless) I didn't now--so put up thread for you in case you were that clueless.
--but appears after putting it up you still do your liberal--:00x7
--and you remain to insinuate he didn't fly jets nor was mulitiple business owner--and speak of credibilty.:shrug:
Wayne, do you really want to examine his "business" career? If so I would be happy to oblidge, but my guess is you just want to leave it at "he owned lots of businesses." Have you ever done any research into his "business" career? You are either ignorant, or disingenuous.
he flew a jet. Good for him. Did you read the rest of the article?
You worship a chickenhawk AWOL piece of shit. Good for you. Thank god you represent a tiny minority, which is getting smaller all the time. You, Hegdehog, Nosiger, Rusty, and the like should have a town hall meeting to figure out why you are so out of step with the rest of America. Honestly, you guys need to form your own nation, you can have Utah, and Kentucky. There are obviously 2 Americas. The backwoods, dumbass redneck Amercia and the rest of us.
i heard that snl did a parody on the news casters love for obama...heard it was pretty funny....
Obama called 'hack, Chicago-style' pol
February 26, 2008
FROM ASSOCIATED PRESS
CINCINNATI ? Republican John McCain quickly denounced the comments of a radio talk show host who while warming up a campaign crowd referred repeatedly to Barack Hussein Obama and called the Democrat a ??hack, Chicago-style?? politician.
Hussein is Obama?s middle name, but talk show host Bill Cunningham used it three times as he addressed the crowd before the likely Republican nominee?s appearance.
??Now we have a hack, Chicago-style Daley politician who is picturing himself as change. When he gets done with you, all you?re going to have in your pocket is change,?? Cunningham said as the audience roared.
The time will come, Cunningham added, when the media will ??peel the bark off Barack Hussein Obama?? and tell the truth about his relationship with indicted fundraiser Antoin ??Tony?? Rezko and how Obama got ??sweetheart deals?? in Chicago.
McCain wasn?t on stage nor in the building when Cunningham made the comments, but he quickly distanced himself from them and the talk show host after finishing his speech. McCain spoke to a couple hundred people at Memorial Hall in downtown Cincinnati.
??I apologize for it,?? McCain told reporters, addressing the issue before they had a chance to ask the Arizona senator about Cunningham?s comments.
??I did not know about these remarks but I take responsibility for them. I repudiate them,?? he said. ??My entire campaign I have treated Senator Obama and Senator (Hillary Rodham) Clinton with respect. I will continue to do that throughout this campaign.
McCain called both Democrats ??honorable Americans?? and said ??I want to dissociate myself with any disparaging remarks that may have been said about them.??
Asked whether the use of Obama?s middle name ? the same as former Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein ? is proper, McCain said: ??No, it is not. Any comment that is disparaging of either Senator Clinton or Senator Obama is totally inappropriate.??
McCain said he didn?t know who decided to allow Cunningham to speak but said he was sure it was in coordination with his campaign. He said he didn?t hear the comments and has never met Cunningham, but ??I will certainly make sure that nothing like that happens again.
Oh, ok...thanks for your in-depth commentary on that. Cleared it right up...
You are probably right in some ways, though. With closed minded bigots and ignorant negativity permiating the thoughts of many in this country, change for some will probably never happen.
Carry on with your bad self.
Oh, ok...thanks for your in-depth commentary on that. Cleared it right up...
You are probably right in some ways, though. With closed minded bigots and ignorant negativity permiating the thoughts of many in this country, change for some will probably never happen.
Carry on with your bad self.
Sorry Chad. Didn't mean to incorrectly give my opinion or wrongly add to the thread.
not feeling as long winded as you today (or always)
type out a couple more paragraphs
try and fire in some more big words about my "too short" post
carry on with your full of shit absolutely miserable self
btw...
I don't have a shot, you've cornered the market on negativity.
thank God we have quality forum police and high alert
Wow, I hope you feel better after that.
In my long-winded-full-of-shit-absolutely-miserable-big-worded-opinion, the point of my post was to toss out a possibly better, more constructive way, for the people who are routinely pinpointed as one of the big problems in society, by many. For crissakes (sorry buddy...), it even allowed for problems in a group of people which is what is hammered on repeatedly here and on conservative channels.
You are entitled to think it won't happen, fo' sho.' I just find that a little ironic, that's all, to have a three word dismissal of a thought about a broadened perspective.
I am curious, though, about the quality forum police. Who are they? And what color is the high elert?
not really upset
Just keep handing out the ribbons for posts. Seems to be what you are 3rd best at. Right after constant indirect comments at other members in every post you can and your best feat, following DTB's ass around this forum like you need a warm place to keep your nose.
I find it funny though many of the others in here you don't like don't seem to judge simple things as easily as you find the ability to do so.
It takes arrogance many of us don't seem to have.
Keep your nose warm.
Just keep handing out the ribbons for posts. Seems to be what you are 3rd best at. Right after constant indirect comments at other members in every post you can and your best feat, following DTB's ass around this forum like you need a warm place to keep your nose.
I find it funny though many of the others in here you don't like don't seem to judge simple things as easily as you find the ability to do so.
It takes arrogance many of us don't seem to have.
Keep your nose warm.
yeah, well...
yeah, well...
Your use of the 14th Amendment is unusual, since the Amendment itself states that the Amendment isn't enforceable, except by act of Congress. How can a document need the imprimatur of a body that had to be in existence before the enactment of the law, to make the act enforceable?? Who elected Congress, if the electorate weren't citizens?? The whole thing is wrought with confusion, and if you don't think you have a good understanding of the 14th Amendment, try reading Texas v White, where CJ Chase invokes the Articles of Confederation (which by the way, stay specifically that dissolution of the Articles could only be accomplished by unanimous vote, meaning we still live in the country created by those Articles), which have never been the law of the State called the United States of America.
Not only that, but citizenship clauses therein are tenuous at best, relying as they do on a strange interpretation of body politic.
For the coup de grace, there is no record of the Amendment having attained the necessary votes (at the time) to become law.
yeah, well...
Your use of the 14th Amendment is unusual, since the Amendment itself states that the Amendment isn't enforceable, except by act of Congress. How can a document need the imprimatur of a body that had to be in existence before the enactment of the law, to make the act enforceable?? Who elected Congress, if the electorate weren't citizens?? The whole thing is wrought with confusion, and if you don't think you have a good understanding of the 14th Amendment, try reading Texas v White, where CJ Chase invokes the Articles of Confederation (which by the way, stay specifically that dissolution of the Articles could only be accomplished by unanimous vote, meaning we still live in the country created by those Articles), which have never been the law of the State called the United States of America.
Not only that, but citizenship clauses therein are tenuous at best, relying as they do on a strange interpretation of body politic.
For the coup de grace, there is no record of the Amendment having attained the necessary votes (at the time) to become law.
look what hillary e mailed me!....("if at first you can't succeed, you can drag down every other bastard with you".....clinton campaign handbook, page 15)
who dat` bad dude in the "kinte cloth"?...
seriously,i think he was probably visiting a foreign land(the south side of chicago,maybe)......:shrug:
p.s...somebody give the brother holding the photo some lotion....
who dat` bad dude in the "kinte cloth"?...
seriously,i think he was probably visiting a foreign land(the south side of chicago,maybe)......:shrug:
p.s...somebody give the brother holding the photo some lotion....
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