bbc, chadman. redsfann, & smurphy...

[AR182]

Well, Biden was always overshadowed by other players. I always liked him though. Let me ask you this - Imagine if Palin was running for president ....how well would SHE have done in the primaries.....2% if lucky?

ridiculous comment...palin is not running for the president...you're grasping at straws..

 

[AR182]

AR, I can say without a doubt, the selection of Biden cemented my vote completely. I had reservations about Obama, that are calmed by the addition of Biden. I think Biden will add a lot to this leadership team - and the fact that many Americans really didn't ever understand his value and supported him, doesn't mean he won't be an asset if and when the time comes.

Again, Biden got me on board - and I assure you, it will pull in others who respect his positions and experience. And it certainly works against the lack of experience angle, which is a constant drumbeat.

biden was a very good selection for obama...however i would feel more comfortable if the democratic ticket was reversed...and listen chad...with all due respect...you were voting for obama no matter what...

 

[smurphy]

ridiculous comment...palin is not running for the president...you're grasping at straws..

What the hell are you talking about? Neither is Biden! Your the one who brought up this angle.:shrug:

Are you just playing dumb right now? It's been a while since you've jumped in the pot, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

Come one Al - get up to speed!

 

[AR182]

You could look at this a couple of different ways, including yours and Al's.

Now consider that if Obama needs some advice on, say, foreign policy. He can go to to his VP for some experienced guidance. Right, wrong or in between, he will get some straight shooting advice.

Now consider that if the confused McCain needs some guidance on economics, which he at least admits he knows nothing about, needs some help? Yeah. He's going to Palin.

How about foreign policy? Where he continually messes up the Shia and Sunnis and thinks Iraq has a border with Afghanistan? He's going to the hockey mom who has been in charge of a dinky state for two years and a mayor of a hamlet before that and a sportscaster before that? I doubt it.

You guys want to talk about 'executive experience?' lol

On what level?

A state with like 700,000 people for 2 yrs. And a city with 8,800 people?

Someone tell me how this translates to a country with 320 million people.

Just silly.

Most importantly, she would be one step away from the presidency. Normally, it's a vague thought, but with McCain and his age and physical baggage, I think that any reasonable person would have to at least consider it.

If that were to happen, it literally would have all the makings of a Hollywood movie, where the producers ask us to suspend disbelief. Pretty hockey mom with minimal experience of any kind, from a remote state(to be kind) , all of a sudden is meeting with Putin.

Kinda like Legally Blonde, in a way.

when the pres.needs foreign affairs advice they could go to the vp...but mostly they go to the sect'y of state or sect'y of defense or the position that rice held before she became sec't of state (can't remember the title)....

 

[AR182]

What the hell are you talking about? Neither is Biden! Your the one who brought up this angle.:shrug:

Are you just playing dumb right now? It's been a while since you've jumped in the pot, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

Come one Al - get up to speed!

i was originally talking about bringing in votes as vp...& my argument is that she will bring in more votes than biden because he won't & hasn't shown that he can....while i think she will bring in some of the women voters who don't have the abortion issue as their primary concern...

 

[kosar]

when the pres.needs foreign affairs advice they could go to the vp...but mostly they go to the sect'y of state or sect'y of defense or the position that rice held before she became sec't of state (can't remember the title)....

She was the National Security Advisor during W's first term.

And yes, of course there are tons of people other than the VP that a President could and should get advice from.

It just seems that basically giving up one more voice for no perceived gain is silly.

And again, like I said before, *most* importantly to me is that bizarrely somehow she would be one step from the presidency.

I guess that doesn't bother you. You didn't address it one way or another. That's fine.

With McCain, I believe it is an issue. I'm surprised (well, not really) that this isn't an issue with you guys.

 

[Chadman]

AR, I was not convinced to vote Obama until McCain gave up his original commitments to his values and sold out to what he needed to win the primaries and especially after that. I liked McCain, and now he is nothing more than Bush-lite - seriously. He is old, has a history of cancer, and looks as uncomfortable and crabby as humanly possible, and I seriously worry about him for the next four or especially eight years as commander in chief - which brings us to Pahlin - at least for me.

Obama has done some to convince me that he would be good for the country in ways this country has never seen before. Yes, I lean his direction in many ways, but not all of them. But compared to McCain - no freaking way. McCain is a trainwreck IMO, and the selection of Biden made my decision pretty easy. And to see so many who hated McCain before sing his praises now - it's laughable.

I wanted Hillary, or Biden, or Dodd. But Obama certainly will do, compared to a McCain/Pahlin ticket.

 

[smurphy]

i was originally talking about bringing in votes as vp...& my argument is that she will bring in more votes than biden because he won't & hasn't shown that he can....while i think she will bring in some of the women voters who don't have the abortion issue as their primary concern...

she might attract some right wing women, but weren't they already prepared to vote for mccain? i just can't see how indies or hillary supporters would fall for this stunt.

there are many people like chad and myself to some extent who are drawn more to obama's ticket because of biden. this will be something impossible to measure i guess.

then it was a rather unfair comparison you were attempting to make about biden. so because he ran for prez but never got the nomination means he can't draw as many voters as someone who has never run and proven that she'd get even less votes.?:shrug:

 

[smurphy]

And to see so many who hated McCain before sing his praises now - it's laughable.

Yeah, this is pretty funny. The GOP was on verge of cancelling his party membership a few years ago. Now he's the loveable old rebel.

Of course many Dems do the same thing. The once adored Hillary became a villain - and now she's OK again. Party politics are a fickle little bitch.

 

[AR182]

listen guys it has been fun...but i have to get ready to go out....

but i really think you guys are completley wrong about this election.....& you guys really think that supporters of mccain are completley wrong....so we are not getting anywhere....

i will tell you one thing...please e-mail me before the election so i can give you a good counselor for the suicide hotline....because you guys are going to be shocked,& depressed the day after the election...& btw she gives group discounts....:mj07:

 

[Chadman]

AR, with all due respect, I don't think McCain supporters are completely wrong. I think they are completely right about some things. Just not enough for my vote.

And, again, I will not be scared or unhappy if John McCain is elected President. I will be scared if God forbid he cannot fulfill the requirements of his term, because I do not think Pahlin is who I want representing my country in the world, considering how dark and tough that can be these days. I think Barack will do fine in that respect, and I KNOW Biden can.

Have a good time out tonight, my friend.

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

Been good discussion -gents

Zogby has 1st poll out since Mac made his pick
Interesting results--and just following Dem convention and Obama hoopla

McCain/Palin 47%
Obama/Biden 45%...

http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews1547.html

 

[kosar]

Wayne, we can cite these polls all day long. They are irrelevant. If popular vote mattered, we wouldn't be where we are today because W and crew would have lost in 2000.

It's pretty simple. Whoever gets 2 of 3 in Pennsylvania, Ohio and Florida wins.



'The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Saturday is the first to include reaction to both Barack Obama?s acceptance speech and John McCain?s selection of Sarah Palin to be his running mate. The numbers are little changed since yesterday and show Barack Obama attracting 47% of the vote nationwide while John McCain earns 43%. When "leaners" are included, it?s Obama 49% and McCain 45% (see recent daily results). '



'Data from Rasmussen Markets currently gives Obama a 60.1% chance of winning the White House. That has changed little over the past couple of days despite the Obama speech and the Palin announcement.'



http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub...ial_election/daily_presidential_tracking_poll

 

[kosar]

Here's some data from Wayne's beloved Real Clear Politics.



'2008 Presidential Election Poll Averages
Here are the current live poll averages from RealClearPolitics:


RCP Poll Averages
General Election: McCain vs. Obama
RCP Average
Obama47.7McCain43.8Obama +3.9

Generic Congressional Vote
RCP Average
Democrats47.0Republicans38.6Democrats +8.4

This page is updated real time when new polls come out and are averaged in.'

 

[kosar]

Gallup Daily: Obama Stretches Lead to 8 PointsAugust 29, 2008

Barack Obama leads John McCain by 49% to 41% in the latest Gallup Poll Daily tracking, as he continues to rise in the polls coincident with the Democratic National Convention.

 

[Trench]

Been good discussion -gents

Zogby has 1st poll out since Mac made his pick
Interesting results--and just following Dem convention and Obama hoopla

McCain/Palin 47%
Obama/Biden 45%...

http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews1547.html

All these polls are meaningless 2 months before the election. The only poll that matters is the one on November 4th.

Choosing a VP is a candidate's first executive decision. In picking Palin, McCain's rolling the dice with our future in a desperate attempt to sway female voters and his first executive decision only further reveals the contempt he, and the GOP in general, have for the electorate.

 

[dawgball]

Does anyone have a site of state's electoral voting record? I'm sure it's out there, and I'm admitting now that I didn't even attempt google because... well... one of you guys more than likely have it bookmarked already. :SIB

:0corn

 

[dawgball]

Yeah, this is pretty funny. The GOP was on verge of cancelling his party membership a few years ago. Now he's the loveable old rebel.

At one time, wasn't McCain one of the Dem's favorite Republicans? This may be incorrect. I may be misremembering.

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

Wayne, we can cite these polls all day long. They are irrelevant. If popular vote mattered, we wouldn't be where we are today because W and crew would have lost in 2000.

It's pretty simple. Whoever gets 2 of 3 in Pennsylvania, Ohio and Florida wins.



'The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Saturday is the first to include reaction to both Barack Obama?s acceptance speech and John McCain?s selection of Sarah Palin to be his running mate. The numbers are little changed since yesterday and show Barack Obama attracting 47% of the vote nationwide while John McCain earns 43%. When "leaners" are included, it?s Obama 49% and McCain 45% (see recent daily results). '



'Data from Rasmussen Markets currently gives Obama a 60.1% chance of winning the White House. That has changed little over the past couple of days despite the Obama speech and the Palin announcement.'



http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub...ial_election/daily_presidential_tracking_poll

--agree on being irrelevent for most part Matt--and bounce from day to day--but think fact that O didn't have huge bounce after convention and Macs VP pick is note worthy.
--and certainly surprised me.

One important thing to remember on the polls--O polled better in every state in primaries than actual results.

 

[Chadman]

Kosar, when will you learn. The polls you sight are just polls and really have no bearing on reality. The one Wayne cited as a reason to show McCain's power and Obama's weakness is the one that we should all pay attention to. That's the REAL important one...

Interesting that Wayne (after your multiple ones were posted) says now that they are irrelevant but shows no real bounce, and yet the first poll out immediately after the convention which didn't even take into consideration his speech, which certainly had general public/voter appeal, showed him up by 8/9 points - and that was up fairly dramatically from the week before.

I guess it only matters when you are trying to make a point? :shrug: