China stocks

selkirk

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DTB would need more recent news before passing judgment. Also have looked through 8 annual reports (companies I own.) , one had 8 pages of notes as reference to the numbers.

comparing a single company to the industry avg. can be tricky. for instant in these and similar infastructure companies (plays) some of the larger ones have investments that are worth a good deal and can be even spin off in the future. Some of the companies in this industry have ownership positions in certain projects and sometimes do not come through in a simple value comparison, though is reflected in the share positon. In time these will provide value.

going forward the most important items will be revenue, the market always like to see rev. growth. for the stock to move rev. growth will have to rise, also projects where there is a reliable revenue stream, to get a higher valuation.

just looking at the share structure, why does not this company do a reverse split, normally I hate them however could get a bigger following by having a $10 share price. though the market cap is small at 14.9, the float is at 135 million.

postive, most companies at this size and valuation have no earnings.

negative. they will have to grow quickly, in this industry you are often competing against several large companies for projects.

note: an example of a large infastructure company, though not in water SNC (on Toronto), owns a toll road in Toronto. they do projects worldwide, including China...would rate it a hold. great company, just close to fully valued. own a small position.

thanks
selkirk
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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Thanks Kirk --I have hard time analyzing #'s --took a small stake--just on real major issue of polutionin in China waters. All the major players are non public companies--hoping this company might get some crumbs.

and thank you Dooley--Enjoyed the articles--Real estate there is unusual because you have so many people like family mentioned in one article whose housing is subsidized are paid entirely by employer.
My sister-in-law works for China Bank of Agriculture and bank bult condo complex and employees get their rent or mortgage (whichever route they choose) subsidized by bank. Pretty sweet deal.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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adding Anglo American PLC AAUK.O (NASDAQ)
bought yesterday @ 27.75

an indirect play on China--yaho0 and others don't have much on info on this stock but best source I found is Reuters
http://stocks.us.reuters.com/stocks/overview.asp?symbol=aauk

however site will show little relation to China but they have 2ndary market and contracts with cleaning coal for China which shoud give additional value and hedge against metals aspect of company.

"Anglo American (AAUK - has become a play on China's continued demand for coal. The company is expanding a joint venture to build a clean-coal-to-chemicals project and invested in the 2006 IPO of China's largest coal producer."

-- pays a decent dividend also.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++

an added note China Petro had huge oil discovery in China and stock up about $6 yesterday and up another $7 in pre market this morning with about an hour to go before openng bell.
 
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s_dooley24

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Chinese-American Banks

A Niche Bank for Your Portfolio
By Michael Kon, CFA | 05-04-07 | 06:00 AM

Chinese-American banks are commercial banks that cater to Chinese people living in the United States. If you have never seen one, the best place to start is to go to the nearest Chinatown. If you are in Los Angeles, New York City, or San Francisco--three cities with large Chinese communities--it's most likely that the first bank you will encounter will be East West Bancorp EWBC , Cathay General Bancorp CATY , or UCBH Holdings UCBH .

The U.S. Census Bureau estimated that about 2.8 million people of Chinese descent lived in the U.S. in 2004. This population segment grows by about 8%-10% a year, so today there are probably about 3.5 million Chinese people living in America. More than 30% live in California, mainly in the greater Los Angeles area. New York City is home to the second-largest Chinese community in the country.

Serving Chinese-Americans is a lucrative business for banks. Thanks to immigration, this population segment grows twice as fast as the overall population. In addition, today's immigrants are well educated, earn decent wages, and in many cases are well off. Chinese-Americans also typically put aside more than the average American and tend to keep high cash balances for emergencies. On average, Chinese-Americans earn an above-average annual income and most likely stick to the same bank for decades. From the bank's perspective, these all translate into very loyal clients, a stable deposit base, and a low level of loan losses.

The Undisputed Rulers
When the first Chinese immigrants hit the West Coast in the early 1960s, their access to the banking system was blocked. Chinese entrepreneurs quickly recognized an opportunity, and Cathay General, East West, and UCBH were founded. Today the three banks have a 90% share of what we estimate to be a $25-$35 billion deposit market.

Small competitors spring up from time to time with attractive offers on certificate deposits, a very popular product among Chinese-Americans. These firms' success has been limited, and most of them fail to gather enough deposits to turn a profit. Mainstream banks such as Wells Fargo WFC and Citigroup C also try to attract Chinese Americans, so far with little success. East West, Cathay, and UCBH are brand names that are well-entrenched in the Chinese community. When new immigrants arrive in the U.S., they will most likely ask for referrals; given the 90% market share, you can guess where their business will go.

But mainstream banks also face some cultural hurdles. The gap between the cultures is so wide that mainstream banks sometimes evoke mistrust among some Chinese clients. The bustling branch of Cathay in Los Angeles' Chinatown has a completely different feel from the fancy, modern, and, unfortunately, empty neighboring Citigroup branch. Therefore, with no serious competition, East West, Cathay, and UCBH branches are keeping all the benefits of serving the Chinese-American community to themselves.

And What About Growth?
East West, Cathay, and UCBH started as savings and loans institutions. But with the growth in the number of small businesses in California and the real estate boom, commercial lending became more and more important for the trio. The shift from consumer lending to commercial lending ignited growth decades ago, and today the three banks predominantly focus on small to medium-sized business clients, while consumer loans account for less than 5% of total loans. With such compelling demographics, all three banks are terrific businesses. But the question today is this: Can this growth last, or is a slowdown inevitable? We've outlined the strategies of these three top firms, and offer our views on the current value of their shares. One disclaimer: If the flow of immigrants continues at its current pace, all three can count on stable growth in deposits, regardless of strategy. However, investors should note that if immigration slows or (even worse) reverses, the impact on profits would be substantial.

UCBH Holdings UCBH
Morningstar Rating: 3 Stars
Risk: Average
Economic Moat: Narrow
In its quest for growth, UCBH extended its reach well outside of California, and looked to the trade finance business. Earlier this year, the firm announced that it would acquire Business Development Bank, a Shanghai-based commercial bank. Without getting into the details of this acquisition--which we don't think was UCBH's best work--we doubt that UCBH will find much growth in this business. Trade finance products are commodities. The profit margins are thin, and the list of competitors is long--in addition, many of them are more resourceful than UCBH. Our expectations for this venture remain modest. UCBH seems to win the market over with its prospects in China, and as a result the stock trades above what we think it's really worth.

East West Bancorp EWBC
Morningstar Rating: 3 Stars
Risk: Below Average
Economic Moat: Narrow
East West has the most realistic approach to growth. The bank acknowledges its core competency--the California market--and sticks to it. East West mainly focuses on California (it has offices in other states and Asia but at a small scale), and at least for now the firm has overcome the temptation to grow outside the state. Unfortunately, the market recognizes its qualities, and the bank looks fully priced.

Cathay General Bancorp CATY
Morningstar Rating: 5 Stars
Risk: Below Average
Economic Moat: Narrow

Like UCBH, Cathay's strategy to avoid a slowdown was to look for growth outside of California. However, Cathay stayed much closer to home; it bought other banks in New York and Chicago, and it hopes to evolve into a national player that caters to Chinese-Americans in several major U.S. metropolitan areas. However, we think the potential rewards from this strategy are limited, simply because most Chinese-Americans still live in California. Cathay--often overlooked by the market--is the only one trading at a discount to our fair value estimate right now, making it our top pick.
 

s_dooley24

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Analyst Research
Cathay General Bancorp CATY

by Michael Kon, CFA

Analyst Note 04-27-2007

Cathay General Bancorp's first-quarter results, announced Thursday, met our expectations. Despite some industrywide upheavals, the bank managed to increase net income and assets in the quarter while maintaining good credit quality. We are sticking to our fair value estimate. Cathay's net interest margin declined 50 basis points, to 3.83%, compared with 4.33% in the year-ago quarter. Despite this sharp decline, net interest income grew 12% from last year, thanks to solid growth in earning assets. Fee income also contributed its share, growing 16% from the prior-year period. The efficiency ratio, though higher by 237 basis points, was still a very enviable 38%. Credit quality remained solid, with no significant additions to nonperforming loans and negligible net charge-offs.


Thesis 04-12-2007

Cathay General Bancorp has historically produced solid returns on assets and equity in a competitive niche market. We like the bank's strategy and geographic positioning and would be investors at the appropriate price.

In 1962, Cathay General became the first bank in Southern California to cater to the ethnic Chinese-American community. The bank has since expanded into other cities with high concentrations of Asian-Americans, such as San Francisco and New York, tapping this growing and financially attractive demographic. Because Cathay's retail customers typically earn and save more than average Americans, serving them produces higher-than-average income per customer and lower loan losses.

Cathay General stands out in this niche market for its growth and efficiency. The bank has posted average annual internal asset growth near 12% since 1999, and in 2003, it doubled its assets by teaming up with California-based GBC Bancorp. What separates Cathay General, however, is its highly efficient operating strategy. Lower-cost commercial loans represent greater than 80% of the bank's portfolio, helping produce an efficiency ratio of 38% in 2006(non-ethnic peers run closer to 55%). Cost controls mean an unusually large portion of revenue is dropping directly into shareholders' pockets.

An interesting characteristic of the Asian-focused banks is the unusually low percentage of core deposits (total deposits less jumbo CDs). The bank's average customer saves a good deal, but tends to be financially savvy and doesn't park funds in noninterest-bearing accounts. As a result, core deposits represent only about 55% of the deposit base at Cathay General, while most banks rely on a core base above 75%. Still, while jumbo deposits are price-sensitive at a typical bank, the ethnic client base is very loyal and will generally not move deposits to reach for yield. So even though core deposits are low, the bank's cost of funds remains below the peer average, and we believe most deposits tend to be sticky.

Stable funding helps net interest income, but the lack of fee revenue makes us wary. The higher savings rate means overdraft fees are rare, and insurance and trust services are not typically in high demand. While many domestic banks have been reducing reliance on interest rates in recent years, this is not an option for the Asian-focused banks. Therefore, Cathay General must closely and acutely manage its exposure to interest rate risk.

We like the bank's record and expect more success as its customer base grows.


Valuation

We think Cathay is worth $40 per share. We expect assets to grow 12% annually, on average, through 2011. This growth will come mainly from acquisitions and favorable trends in the population segment the bank is targeting. Since the bank has been historically weak in generating fee income, we expect growth in noninterest revenue to track growth in total assets, averaging 12% over the next five years. We applaud the bank's strategy of increasing loans while shrinking the securities portfolio. This has enabled Cathay General to expand the net interest margin in a tough interest environment, from 3.2% in 2003 to 4.2% in 2006. We don't think the bank has much more room for margin expansion; thus, we expect the net interest margin to remain at about 4.2% over the next five years. We expect that the efficiency ratio will hover around 36% over the next five years, and that credit-quality metrics will remain in line with historical norms. Our analysis uses a 10.5% cost of equity assumption.

Risk

Cathay General's loan portfolio is geographically concentrated in the California market, and any downturn in the California economy could damage the bank's performance. In addition, most of the bank's loan originations are real estate related, which means collateral values would be hurt by falling property prices. Cathay General also faces intense competition, even in its niche market, from banks like East West Bancorp EWBC and UCBH Holdings UCBH, both of which operate in similar markets.

See Previous Analyst Reports


Close Competitors TTM Sales $Mil Market Cap $Mil
Cathay General Bancorp 301 1,752
* Bank of America 73,023 229,117
* East West Bancorp 402 2,470
* UnionBanCal 2,710 8,758
* UCBH Holdings 311 1,820
* Wells Fargo 35,691 121,090

* Morningstar Analyst Report Available | Compare These Stocks

Data as of 12-31-2006

Strategy

Cathay General differentiates itself from peers by focusing on one segment of the population: Chinese-Americans. While California is still its main market, the bank has expanded, through acquisitions of banks with similar population segment focus, to states such as New York, Illinois, and Washington.

Management & Stewardship

Chairman, CEO, and president Dunson Cheng has been with Cathay General in some capacity for more than 20 years. We believe a great deal of the bank's success is attributable to his leadership and connections in the Chinese community. Cheng owns about 2.7% of the bank, which is enough to align his interests with those of outside shareholders, in our opinion. But in 2005, Cheng received 664,694 options, amounting to 1.3% of outstanding shares and valued at more than $8 million, in addition to his $1.8 million in cash compensation. We believe this is an excessive package, even considering the bank's strong financial performance. Overall, Cathay General's option issuance is not excessive, but we are disappointed that Cheng received 54% of the options granted in 2005. The 11-member board serves staggered three-year terms, and director compensation does not include stock options or restricted stock. However, we like that 13 directors and executive officers beneficially own 11.6% of the bank's outstanding stock on a combined basis.

Profile

Cathay General is a California-based regional bank primarily serving the Chinese-American community. With more than 45 branches and three international representative offices, the bank provides traditional loan and deposit products and international trade-related services to individuals and small to midsize businesses. The bank has more than $7 billion in assets.

Growth

We expect assets and noninterest income to grow by 12%, on average, over the next five years. We think this growth will mainly come from acquisitions of other banks that focus on the Chinese-American segment.

Profitability

The bank's return on equity has averaged 14% over the past five years. We expect it to average 16% over the next five years, mainly thanks to an increase in the net interest margin to 4.2% from the historical average of 3.9%.

Financial Health

Given that net charge-offs have averaged only 0.09% of gross loans over the past five years and the equity/asset ratio remains conservatively above 10%, we think the bank's financial health is good.
 

Dr. Fade

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.03 premium is pretty brutal on penny stocks. My sources are reliable on Golden Meditech- KMG earnings are huge. 4 PE ratio w/small dividend- good stock to buy IMO I also like SUN.

Well, SUN (Sunoco) has gone from $58 to $86 @ close today in the past 6 mo.'s. Still more upside on this gem
 

Dr. Fade

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This is up to .35 from .25.nice 40% bang. A very large, respected University has 5% of their endowment money in this stock.

side note:

take a look @ KMG May 100 call options..............
(I'm buying)


Oh, I forgot to mention -GMDTF.PK closed @ 0.595 today. Hopefully someone on here threw a little $$ at it- this is only going higher- trust me. Every rec I have given has cashed BIGTIME- check for yourself
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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I have tough time finding financials on this company Doc and have numerous resources for China--did find a little on Forbes--

I noticed on their finacials on their website--
http://www.goldenmeditech.com/eng/3_1.php

That most of their profits came from--

Gain on deemed disposal of an associate
or
Gain on partial disposal of an associate

I am not familiar with those terms on financials--would you have any input?
 

Dr. Fade

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I have tough time finding financials on this company Doc and have numerous resources for China--did find a little on Forbes--

I noticed on their finacials on their website--
http://www.goldenmeditech.com/eng/3_1.php

That most of their profits came from--

Gain on deemed disposal of an associate
or
Gain on partial disposal of an associate

I am not familiar with those terms on financials--would you have any input?


I can fid out for you Dogs.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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Had a little pre 4th of July fireworks on a few of these china stocks yesterday.

ACH was leading gainer on NYSE and is up 107% since purchase in Jan.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB118349350715356974.html?mod=yahoo_hs&ru=yahoo

PTR-at all time high

the others-ASD CKISF DENMF all near all time highs and CHNG buck off all time high but up 37% since purchace 11-06
--and with exception of CHNG can add divs to the equation.

--I realize this can't continue and waiting for the fall-- thankfully can apply stop losses to several.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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Not quite--I use stop (stop loss) orders myself.

--here is pretty good articleon diff between the two


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Different types of orders allow you to be more specific about how you'd like your broker to fulfill your trades. When you place a stop or limit order, you are telling your broker that you don't want the market price (the current price at which a stock is trading), but that you want the stock price to move in a certain direction before your order is executed.

With a stop order, your trade will be executed only when the security you want to buy or sell reaches a particular price (the stop price). Once the stock has reached this price, a stop order essentially becomes a market order and is filled. For instance, if you own stock ABC, which currently trades at $20, and you place a stop order to sell it at $15, your order will only be filled once stock ABC drops below $15. Also known as a "stop-loss order", this allows you to limit your losses. However, this type of order can also be used to guarantee profits. For example, assume that you bought stock XYZ at $10 per share and now the stock is trading at $20 per share. Placing a stop order at $15 will guarantee profits of approximately $5 per share, depending on how quickly the market order can be filled.

Stop orders are particularly advantageous to investors who are unable to monitor their stocks for a period of time, and brokerages may even set these stop orders for no charge.

One disadvantage of the stop order is that the order is not guaranteed to be filled at the preferred price the investor states. Once the stop order has been triggered, it turns into a market order, which is filled at the best possible price. This price may be lower than the price specified by the stop order. Moreover, investors must be conscientious about where they set a stop order. It may be unfavorable if it is activated by a short-term fluctuation in the stock's price. For example, if stock ABC is relatively volatile and fluctuates by 15% on a weekly basis, a stop loss set at 10% below the current price may result in the order being triggered at an inopportune or premature time.

A limit order is an order that sets the maximum or minimum at which you are willing to buy or sell a particular stock. For instance, if you want to buy stock ABC, which is trading at $12, you can set a limit order for $10. This guarantees that you will pay no more than $10 to buy this stock. Once the stock reaches $10 or less, you will automatically buy a predetermined amount of shares. On the other hand, if you own stock ABC and it is trading at $12, you could place a limit order to sell it at $15. This guarantees that the stock will be sold at $15 or more.

The primary advantage of a limit order is that it guarantees that the trade will be made at a particular price; however, your brokerage will probably charge a higher a commission for the limit order, and it's possible that your order will not be executed at all if the limit price is not reached.
=====================
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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Been thinking long and hard about this--but being conservative and defensive in nature will sell 1/2 stake of
CHINA NATURAL GAS (OTC BB:CHNG.OB) shares this morning.

Not that I still don't like stock--but this was only stock in thread at deficeit for a while and has recovered nicely with over 100% gain in the 8 months owned--Have quite a few shares because of low cost -- purchases at $3.15 and purchased again @ $2.50 when china market took big dip--and can't hedge with stop loss on OTC so will pocket intial stake and let profits run or decline on rest of shares.
Will update price sold for in bout an hour at markets open--currently @ $6.65
________________________________
sold @ $6.40/share
 
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selkirk

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good call DTB, nothing wrong with taking some money off of the table. own a small amount. also sold half, at 6.10.

this stock has some swings. today down more than 8%, however a few days back went up over 12%.

two brazil stocks I am following along with some others in the emerging markets were off on avg. 5%.

might be some good buys in the weeks ahead.

thanks
selkirk
 

Woodson

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Dr. Fade,

Got a signing bonus and have always been interested in your stock picks. Wanted to throw an amount at Golden Meditech but am uncertain. How do you rate it a month later?

Thanks for the reply.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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Thanks Kirk--Came within a wisker of asking your thoughts before doing it--and glad to hear your comments after the fact.
--figured this way I can't be disappointed regardless of outcome.

Has been some good news lately--I see where they have U.S. accounting firm now doing their auditing--and just bought office in New York.
So transparency doesn't seem issue like some of these china stocks.

Having tough time sniffing out any new ones in china--theres a little company called china water group thats headquarters is in Guangzhou.
When wife and I head to china in December going to fly into that city to open Citibank account (have to apply in person) and going to see if I can get tour of company--just to see what its about and qualify some tax deductions for trip :)
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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Had china stock sell today on stop loss
China Petro (PTR) Sold At 150.07
Was initially purchased @ $39.79 but lost lost a few dollars of profit on sells and repurchases.
Considered buying back today after sale -when it got in $147 range but didn't--probably should have as it regained some and is up in after markets.

Will consider buying back again-but not as hot on it as previously.

On added note thought it odd stock sold @ $150.07 when stop loss was $150.00 assume it bounced back after dropping below--

Got a break on another as had ACH stop loss set @ $45 and saw it drop below for few seconds in early trading when it was falling like a rock--however the few seconds it was under did not trigger sale and closed at $48.25--

so got a couple breaks today--the latter quite significant.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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Had another stock sold on stop loss yesterday

ACH--originally bought @ $23.40
sold yesterday $46.97
--set stop loss to sell 1/2 shares at double buying price--While general rule is to take the free shares and move on--if it continues to fall will buy this one back.
++++++++++++++++++

08/03/07 Order Executed XXXXXXXX Ameriprise Brokerage Services
Your order to sell 700 of ACH has been executed at $46.97. Reference Number XXXXXXXX.
 
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