Do you believe in luck, fate, God?

[gardenweasel]

i haven`t been to church in years.....but,if something gets dicey in my life,i have to admit to saying a prayer here and there...i`m probably a hypocrite in that respect..

superstitious mumbo jumbo?...who knows

... but i will say that i saw the kid from "growing pains"(?..not sure if that`s the right show)on one of the cable news talk shows....kurt cameron,i think his name was...

he`s a born again christian....he said he realized it probably hurt his career...but,he has 6 kids...and he thinks it was the best thing that ever happened to him...he couldn`t be more happy or contented....

the guy was beaming....you could sense it through the damned t.v. screen...

the born again thing isn`t my cup of tea..and even if religion is utter gobbledygoop...that sense of inner peace.....of being connected to something....the absolute contentedness that this guy exhibited....was pretty amazing...

even if it`s a sham,it`s serving a positive purpose in this guy`s life...

and that has to count for something..

of course,on the other end of the spectrum,you have radical islam....

religion is tricky business...

 

[ELVIS]

I believe in God and having a relationship with him. I do not believe in force feeding it to adults, so I don't talk about it much on here. I try to lead my life in a Godly way and let my actions speak, and I'm happy to talk to anybody about my faith. I also think it's a disservice to God for people to be saying, "Thank God, that parking place opened up", or, "Praise God, I found my lost button", etc UNLESS it the person was honest and had truly prayed earnestly for this to happen. Those off the cuff Praise God things we hear all the time are troubling to me and I think as proven in this thread sound like bs to those who struggle with the concept of God and a higher power. In other words, it's a stumbling block.

I absolutely do not believe in fate/predestination. I do believe that God can see from the beginning to the end, but I think he can and still lets people have free will to make their own decisions whether they be good or bad.

Luck is something most Christians don't believe in. I think I do believe in it, because there are too many trivial things that God doesn't care about that happen to be able to explain in any other way.

Lastly, I think organized religion has done a lot of people so much damage that they can't make themselves see past it. Lots of bad things have happened as we all know. Those who have been harmed by a Catholic upbringing, there are other options, and if you are ever willing to try Christianity again, I can certainly expand on it. I always seem to offend my Catholic friends on here, and I'm sorry for that, but really, that's how I feel.

I do not believe in karma, mainly because I'm not a Buddhist. I do think that it's a great thing to do unto others as you would have them do to you, but I don't think that means you are going to have an absolutely good thing happen to you in return.

we always seem to agree.....

i just don't like bush. other than that we see eye to eye on almost every other post you write

 

[SixFive]

we always seem to agree.....

i just don't like bush. other than that we see eye to eye on almost every other post you write

I'm certainly no bush fan , but when you have two choices, and both suck, I choose the least suckier. Cheers, Elvis!

 

[Penguinfan]

OK SixFive while I may possibly open this discussion up to take a horrible turn for the worse, I will bait you with the following:

The church I attended was/is a "Born again" church, my wife still drags me there on occasion. They teach that you must be born again and you get the gift of salvation when you ask God for it through prayer.

The Bible, as well as the church I go to teaches about healing and answered prayer, etc... Now for the sake of time I won't list a bunch of scriptures, I can if necessary though. They teach how God wants to heal people and give them "Life more abundant", but when people don't get these things we can say God didn't answer that prayer, the argument from the pulpit is God did answer the prayer, the answer for reasons we can't understand was no, but God ALWAYS answers the prayer.

OK, fine, that seems like a pretty big cop out, anytime something works out God gets the praise and glory, but when it doesn't then it's for reasons we can't understand.

Let's say we accept that. What makes you think everytime someone asks for salvation the answer is yes? Unfortunatly we don't get physical evidence of that answer till it's too late. Our pastor will tell you that God wants to save everone, well the Bible says he wants to heal everyone as well. When healing prayers go unanswered you get the "some things we don't understand" line, what makes you think the salvation prayer gets a yes everytime?

Not looking to argue with you SixFive, and I won't simply because I respect your opinion on the subject, but would like to hear what you think.

God forbid we teach people that every prayer for salvation doesn't get a yes answer, money might just quit dropping in the collection plate.........

 

[marine]

pfan -

Let me get this straight.
1. You are hooked into it with born agains.
2. You've been getting your @ss poked at a few times lately

I'm going to be driving up thru pitt on memorial day weekend. Let me know a good time to stop in and give you some counseling. You need some serious picking up man. I'm quite surprised you have not gone up to the big igloo in the sky based on just 1 &2.

My opinion, Born again = salesman for the church.

 

[Penguinfan]

1. I'm not hooked in with anyone/anything

2. Yes sadly, but I am recovering

If your seriously gonna be up this way let me know and I'll try to clear a spot on my schedule since I missed you last time.

 

[marine]

yea, will be thru there mem. day weekend, will be in a moving truck with a dog, so probly not the best time. I'll be coming back thru the weekend of June 16th - depending on NHL playoff schedule and can link up for a beer then.

 

[Penguinfan]

Looking foreward to it, let me know.

 

[SixFive]

OK SixFive while I may possibly open this discussion up to take a horrible turn for the worse, I will bait you with the following:

The church I attended was/is a "Born again" church, my wife still drags me there on occasion. They teach that you must be born again and you get the gift of salvation when you ask God for it through prayer.

The Bible, as well as the church I go to teaches about healing and answered prayer, etc... Now for the sake of time I won't list a bunch of scriptures, I can if necessary though. They teach how God wants to heal people and give them "Life more abundant", but when people don't get these things we can say God didn't answer that prayer, the argument from the pulpit is God did answer the prayer, the answer for reasons we can't understand was no, but God ALWAYS answers the prayer.

OK, fine, that seems like a pretty big cop out, anytime something works out God gets the praise and glory, but when it doesn't then it's for reasons we can't understand.

Let's say we accept that. What makes you think everytime someone asks for salvation the answer is yes? Unfortunatly we don't get physical evidence of that answer till it's too late. Our pastor will tell you that God wants to save everone, well the Bible says he wants to heal everyone as well. When healing prayers go unanswered you get the "some things we don't understand" line, what makes you think the salvation prayer gets a yes everytime?

Not looking to argue with you SixFive, and I won't simply because I respect your opinion on the subject, but would like to hear what you think.

God forbid we teach people that every prayer for salvation doesn't get a yes answer, money might just quit dropping in the collection plate.........

hard to understand, isn't it, why sometimes people/kids get sick and die and don't get better even though there might be thousands praying for them? I don't know the answer to that. However, what I do know through my years in my profession is that a sick, invalid, seemingly useless person can be the most powerful and uplifting person you will ever run across. In my own mind, when I'm trying to answer your question, that's one of the answers I have formulated. Nobody is useless, every life has value, and every person can help another in some way. Add to that I have faith, and I don't dwell on this subject very long.

As far as your other question on salvation, I don't believe that all a person has to do is say, "God, I'm sorry for all my sins. Please save me". I think there's a lot more to it than that, including how you live afterwards AND, I DO BELIEVE YOU CAN FALL AWAY. We are saved by grace through faith, but we do have free will, and we can fall away. Many 'born agains' will disagree with that, but I think that's what scripture tells us. I am confident, however, that if you ask for salvation and follow the plan layed out in scripture, that it is granted to you.

Also, don't worry about me getting mad or offended by you on this subject. It's about impossible to anger me on this, and I do not get offended. Thanks.

 

[bjfinste]

Marine- Did you settle on a place to live?

 

[kosar]

... but i will say that i saw the kid from "growing pains"(?..not sure if that`s the right show)on one of the cable news talk shows....kurt cameron,i think his name was...

even if it`s a sham,it`s serving a positive purpose in this guy`s life...

and that has to count for something..

As tempting as it is, I won't divert this thread to pop culture. His name is 'Kirk', BTW. Great show.

Anyways, I totally agree with the last three sentences. That's how I try to leave organized religion, at least publically. If it makes you a presumably better, happier person, then it's wonderful for that person. No doubt. We should all try to glean the most happiness from our short time here on earth.

I do not want to generalize, and I won't. Well, maybe a little. Anyways, it's puzzling how I get into a heated debate a couple years ago with the poster here, 'loungelizard', when he excused Cardinal Law from burying, reshuffling his priests within the diocyse (one of them got summoned to Rome to work...good for him!)that were sexually molesting and raping young boys because there was a 'shortage of priests in Boston', and they needed them or they wouldn't have enough(wouldn't that maybe be a good thing?) WTF?

Christian Science? Made a few posts based on personal experience on this one before. Like the above, it's cruel and affects other people.

People that need medical care, but refused to get it or are strongly encouraged to not get it. They basically believe that praying will take care of that utter pain of cancer, COPD, broken bones and any other afflictions.

Mary Baker Eddy, L. Ron Hubbard, these traveling gypsie religious nuts(born agains I think, but usually don't get that far with them) that knock on my door every couple of years?

These guys on TV with their fake miracles? And their mansions and private jets?

I genuinely respect people like Clint (six-five) and Jason (dawgball) who quietly go about their business and do what's best for them. They're in the majority for sure, but sometimes I wonder why anybody is surprised that there is some amount of religious backlash.

 

[marine]

bjfinstie -
God is sending down messages that I must live in Pleasant Prairie, so it shall be.

Not going to buy until Aug/Sep - but wife and I will be down there the Tuesday after Memorial day to look around for 2 days if you'd like to show us some sights down there.

sorry to hijack the thread -

now back to our regularly scheduled bible thumping/burning/ignoring

 

[bjfinste]

That's good. Looks a little more metro than the other areas you were recommended. I didn't know exactly what you were looking for, but I figured you wanted more metro or Waukesha-esque than the rural, west-of-94 areas. Kenosha isn't Chicago, but it's also not Wilmot.

I really don't know any sights at all, but I have a co-worker in his 50's that was born and raised in Kenosha and loves it there so he could give some advice (and I also actually met Saul there one time when he was around), so shoot me an email if you still have my address and we'll see if your schedules can match up. If you don't still have it, just ask Mr. Jackson.

 

[buddy]

People that need medical care, but refused to get it or are strongly encouraged to not get it. They basically believe that praying will take care of that utter pain of cancer, COPD, broken bones and any other afflictions.

Reminds me of a humorous story...

Flood ravages the town and a man is stranded on his rooftop. "Oh God, please rescue me!", he cries.

Stranger comes by in a motorboat and says, "C'mon, jump in". Man shouts, "No thanks. God is going to rescue me".

Little while later, another stranger comes by in a rowboat and says, "C'mon, jump in". Man shouts, "No thanks. God is going to rescue me".

Soon after, another stranger comes by in a canoe and says, "C'mon, jump in". Man shouts, "No thanks. God is going to rescue me".

Flood waters rise and the man drowns.

Man meets St. Peter at the Pearly Gates and says, "Why didn't God answer my prayer and rescue me?"

St. Peter says, "Hey, He tried three times but you refused His help".

 

[smurphy]

As tempting as it is, I won't divert this thread to pop culture. His name is 'Kirk', BTW. Great show.

Nope. That was not a good show. The Bell is coming to Adult Swim, by the way (Cartoon Network, I know - but then again MTV is supposed to have music). So I'll be watching a ton of those episodes. I will likely be an expert on bellogic sciences within a couple months.

Went to Easter service with family in LA. There are some cool, laid back ministries in that area. I definitely enjoy hearing the messages. It's the singing that bugs me.

 

[kosar]

The Bell is on tbs here from 7-9 every morning and it really helps me ease into the day. Thanks for the 411 on the cartoon network. Great news! One of the ones today is when Kelly and Zack broke up because Kelly had a crush on Jeff, the college guy. ):

Another hour was the two parter where Jessies mean cousin Eric comes in from New York and pisses everybody off. Lisa crashes Mr. Beldings new car, falls for Eric but Eric was hurt when he found out Zack originally bribed Lisa to go out with him by giving her front row MC Hammer tickets. Eric redeemed himself in the end when he put together Mr Beldings car to save the day.

 

[kosar]

And what's your problem with growing pains, anyways? You probably don't like Threes Company either. You seem like that sort of person.

 

[smurphy]

Threes Company was awesome. It's all about the obvious underlying drug messages in that show. Mr. Furley was always sniffing and wiping at his nose, Jack TRIPPER, Chrissy SNOW, you never saw inside Larry's apartment because you just knew it was full of 8 balls and tipped over liquor bottles. Everyone was always paranoid and hyper - it was like 'scared straight' show for me.

Growing Pains and similar regular network shows were watered down versions of the pure mainline heroin that was Saved By The Bell. I don't care for the commercialized versions when you can get real edge messages.

 

[Penguinfan]

Threes Company was awesome. It's all about the obvious underlying drug messages in that show. Mr. Furley was always sniffing and wiping at his nose, Jack TRIPPER, Chrissy SNOW, you never saw inside Larry's apartment because you just knew it was full of 8 balls and tipped over liquor bottles. Everyone was always paranoid and hyper - it was like 'scared straight' show for me.

Growing Pains and similar regular network shows were watered down versions of the pure mainline heroin that was Saved By The Bell. I don't care for the commercialized versions when you can get real edge messages.

WOW, I may start believing in God after that post.

 

[Mjolnir]

Luck - Yes

Fate - No

God - Maybe

ditto