George Bush reflects on George Bush

[Eddie Haskell]

I was watching Larry King the other night when he had George and Laura Bush on as his guests. This repugnant conglomeration of texas puke was so delusional about his administration, his actions and his legacy it still makes me wonder in amazement how dumb americans are to have elected him president. twice. the guy is certifiable.

I was just looking at him thinking about how he launched this war where hundreds of thousands of people are now dead. I was thinking of these dead children, kids without arms and legs, American soldiers, dead and wounded, while he and Laura were yucking it up with the old jewish guy. While he was doing this, I was thinking about how this war in Iraq was really keeping us safe and what it really was about. I don't think anyone has ever given a concrete answer to that question other than a Viet Nam like "stop the spead of communism" type answer. (replace the word communism with terrorism)

I was watching him tell me how there are people out there who want to kill us and how he took credit for keeping us safe. still using fear as a tactic with only 5 days left to his presidency. The other side to that argument was, I was thinking about how many young terrorists he has created and empowered whose names we currently do not know, but will find out in the future due to George Bush's war, the purpose of which has still not been explained.

He talked of his legacy and his unpopularity. He said he didn't care about his unpopularity. I do remember him saying how he was going to spend his "political capital" when he "won" the 2004 election by 1% of the popular vote. I guess popularity mattered to him then. He must have matured. He said he did the right thing. I was thinking about how americans love a guy who stands by his convictions. they will impale clinton cause he lied on television about a bj without killing anyone but, will stand by a lucky sperm club frat rat chicken hawk who is responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands as long as he portends to be true to his christian convictions.

Amazing country we live in. sexual morality v human death. reminds me of the ru ru joke. 2 missionarys go to africa and are captured by a tribe. both are tied to stakes. chief comes up to the first missionary and says: "death or ru ru". the missionaries have no idea what ru ru is so the first guy says "ru ru". the tribe goes wild. jumping up and down with there spears and shields. they untie this poor guy and the whole tribe starts butt fucking him all around the camp, theres a big cloud of dust as everybody doing the poor missionary in the ass. after about 2 hours of this all of which is happening in front of the 2nd missionary, they drag the first guy back over to the stake barely alive, eyes rolled back in his head, bleeding, gasping for breath. chief walks up to the 2nd missionary and says "death or ru ru". the second missionary after seeing what happend to the first guy, wants no part of that says, "I choose death." chief says" you very brave man, you choose death. but first a little ru ru."

I know its an old joke, goes by many different names, is better told live and all goes into the delivery and further can be stretched out for 10 minutes but I still like it.

Oh well, just my closing thoughts on the worst president this country has ever had. I'm not sure we can recover from his actions and inactions. I am just happy as hell he will be gone forever in just a few more days. Rot in hell you son of a bitch.

Eddie

 

[THE KOD]

10 Take Aways From the Bush Years

By Bob Woodward
Sunday, January 18, 2009; B01

There's actually a lot that President-elect Barack Obama can learn from the troubled presidency of George W. Bush. Over the past eight years, I have interviewed President Bush for nearly 11 hours, spent hundreds of hours with his administration's key players and reviewed thousands of pages of documents and notes. That produced four books, totaling 1,727 pages, that amount to a very long case study in presidential decision-making, and there are plenty of morals to the story. Presidents live in the unfinished business of their predecessors, and Bush casts a giant shadow on the Obama presidency: two incomplete wars and a monumental financial and economic crisis. Here are 10 lessons that Obama and his team should take away from the Bush experience.

1. Presidents set the tone. Don't be passive or tolerate virulent divisions.

In the fall of 2002, Bush personally witnessed a startling face-off between National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice and Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld in the White House Situation Room after Rumsfeld had briefed the National Security Council on the Iraq war plan. Rice wanted to hold onto a copy of the Pentagon briefing slides, code-named Polo Step. "You won't be needing that," Rumsfeld said, reaching across the table and snatching the Top Secret packet away from Rice -- in front of the president. "I'll let you two work it out," Bush said, then turned and walked out. Rice had to send an aide to the Pentagon to get a bootlegged copy from the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

Bush should never have put up with Rumsfeld's power play. Instead of a team of rivals, Bush wound up with a team of back-stabbers with long-running, poisonous disagreements about foreign policy fundamentals.

2. The president must insist that everyone speak out loud in front of the others, even -- or especially -- when there are vehement disagreements.

During the same critical period, Vice President Cheney was urging Secretary of State Colin Powell to consider seriously the possibility that Iraq might be connected to the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. Powell found the case worse than ridiculous and scornfully concluded that Cheney had what Powell termed a "fever." (In private, Powell used to call the Pentagon policy shop run by Undersecretary of Defense Douglas J. Feith, who shared Cheney's burning interest in supposed ties between al-Qaeda and Iraq, a "Gestapo office.")

Powell was right that to conclude that Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden did not work together. But Cheney and Powell did not have this crucial debate in front of the president -- even though such a discussion might have undermined one key reason for war. Cheney provided private advice to the president, but he was rarely asked to argue with others and test his case. After the invasion, Cheney had a celebratory dinner with some aides and friends. "Colin always had major reservations about what we were trying to do," Cheney told the group as they toasted Bush and laughed at Powell. This sort of derision undermined the administration's unity of purpose -- and suggests the nasty tone that can emerge when open debate is stifled by long-running feuds and personal hostility.

3. A president must do the homework to master the fundamental ideas and concepts behind his policies.

The president should not micromanage, but understanding the ramifications of his positions cannot be outsourced to anyone.

For example, Gen. George W. Casey Jr., the commander of the U.S. forces in Iraq in 2004-07, concluded that President Bush lacked a basic grasp of what the Iraq war was about. Casey believed that Bush, who kept asking for enemy body counts, saw the war as a conventional battle, rather than the counterinsurgency campaign to win over the Iraqi population that it was. "We cannot kill our way to victory in Iraq," Gen. David Petraeus said later. In May 2008, Bush insisted to me that he, of all people, knew all too well what the war was about.

4. Presidents need to draw people out and make sure bad news makes it to the Oval Office.

On June 18, 2003, before real trouble had developed in Iraq, retired Army Lt. Gen. Jay Garner, the first official to head the Iraqi reconstruction effort, warned Rumsfeld that disbanding the Iraqi army and purging too many former Baath Party loyalists had been "tragic" mistakes. But in an Oval Office meeting with Bush later that day, none of this came up, and Garner reported to a pleased president that, in 70 meetings with Iraqis, they had always said, "God bless Mr. George Bush." Bush should have asked Garner if he had any worries -- perhaps even kicking Rumsfeld out of the Oval Office and saying something like, "Jay, you were there. I insist on the ground truth. Don't hold anything back."

Bush sometimes assumed he knew his aides' private views without asking them one-on-one. He made probably the most important decision of his presidency -- whether to invade Iraq -- without directly asking Powell, Rumsfeld or CIA Director George J. Tenet for their bottom-line recommendation. (Instead of consulting his own father, former president George H.W. Bush, who had gone to war in 1991 to kick the Iraqi army out of Kuwait, the younger Bush told me that he had appealed to a "higher father" for strength.)

5. Presidents need to foster a culture of skepticism and doubt.

During a December 2003 interview with Bush, I read to him a quote from his closest ally, British Prime Minister Tony Blair, about the experience of receiving letters from family members of slain soldiers who had written that they hated him. "And don't believe anyone who tells you when they receive letters like that, they don't suffer any doubt," Blair had said.

"Yeah," Bush replied. "I haven't suffered doubt."

"Is that right?" I asked. "Not at all?"

"No," he said.

Presidents and generals don't have to live on doubt. But they should learn to love it. "You should not be the parrot on the secretary's shoulder," said Marine Gen. James Jones, Obama's incoming national security adviser, to his old friend Gen. Peter Pace, who was then the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff -- a group Jones thought had been "systematically emasculated by Rumsfeld." Doubt is not the enemy of good policy; it can help leaders evaluate alternatives, handle big decisions and later make course corrections if necessary.

6. Presidents get contradictory data, and they need a rigorous way to sort it out.

In 2004-06, the CIA was reporting that Iraq was getting more violent and less stable. By mid-2006, Bush's own NSC deputy for Iraq, Meghan O'Sullivan, had a blunt assessment of conditions in Baghdad: "It's hell, Mr. President." But the Pentagon remained optimistic and reported that a strategy of drawing down U.S. troops and turning security over to the Iraqis would end in "self-reliance" in 2009. As best I could discover, the president never insisted that the contradiction between "hell" and "self-reliance" be resolved.

7. Presidents must tell the hard truth to the public, even if that means delivering very bad news.

For years after the Iraq invasion, Bush consistently offered upbeat public assessments. That went well beyond the infamous "Mission Accomplished" banner that he admitted last Monday had been a mistake. "Absolutely, we're winning," the president said during an October 2006 news conference. "We're winning." His confident remarks came during one of the lowest points of the war, at a time when anyone with a TV screen knew that the war was going badly. On Feb. 5, 2005, as he was moving up from his first-term role as Rice's deputy to become national security adviser, Stephen J. Hadley had offered a private, confidential assessment of the problems of Bush's Iraq-dominated first term. "I give us a B-minus for policy development," he said, "and a D-minus for policy execution." The president later told me that he knew that the Iraq "strategy wasn't working." So how could the United States be winning a war with a failing strategy?

After 9/11, Bush spoke forthrightly about a war on terror that might last a generation and include other attacks on the U.S. homeland. That straight talk marked the period of Bush's greatest leadership and highest popularity. Presidents are strong when they are the voice of realism.

8. Righteous motives are not enough for effective policy.

"I believe we have a duty to free people," Bush told me in late 2003. I believe he truly wanted to bring democracy to Afghanistan and Iraq. In preparing his second inaugural address in 2005, for example, Bush told his chief speechwriter, Michael Gerson, "The future of America and the security of America depends on the spread of liberty." That got the idealistic Gerson so pumped that he set out to produce the foreign policy equivalent to Albert Einstein's unified field theory of the universe -- a 17-minute inaugural address in which the president said his goal was nothing less than "the ending of tyranny in our world."

But this high purpose often blinded Bush and his aides to the consequences of this mad dash to democracy. In 2005, for example, Bush and his war cabinet spent much of their time promoting free elections in Iraq -- which wound up highlighting the isolation of the minority Sunnis and setting the stage for the raging sectarian violence of 2006.

9. Presidents must insist on strategic thinking.

Only the president (and perhaps the national security adviser) can prod a reactive bureaucracy to think about where the administration should be in one, two or four years. Then detailed, step-by-step tactical plans must be devised to try to get there. It's easy for an administration to become consumed with putting out brush fires, which often requires presidential involvement. (Ask Obama how much time he's been spending on the Gaza war.) But a president will probably be judged by the success of his long-range plans, not his daily crisis management.

For example, in the Afghanistan and Iraq wars, the quality of the planning for combat operations ranged from adequate to strong, but far too little attention was devoted to what might come after the fall of the Taliban and the Baath Party. Some critical strategic decisions -- to disband the Iraqi army, force Baathists out of government and abolish an initial Iraqi government council -- were made on the ground in Iraq, without the involvement of the NSC and the president.

Obama would do well to remember the example of a young Democratic president who was willing to make long-range plans. Bill Clinton began his presidency in 1993 after having promised to cut the federal deficit in half in four years. The initial plan looked shaky, and Clinton took a lot of heat for more than a year. But he and his team stuck to their basic strategy of cutting federal spending and raising taxes, which laid a major part of the foundation of the economic boom of the Clinton era. It was classic strategic planning, showing a willingness to pay a short-term price for the sort of long-term gains that go down in the history books.

10. The president should embrace transparency. Some version of the behind-the-scenes story of what happened in his White House will always make it out to the public -- and everyone will be better off if that version is as accurate as possible.

On March 8, 2008, Hadley made an extraordinary remark about how difficult it has proven to understand the real way Bush made decisions. "He will talk with great authority and assertiveness," Hadley said. " 'This is what we're going to do.' And he won't mean it. Because he will not have gone through the considered process where he finally is prepared to say, 'I've decided.' And if you write all those things down and historians get them, [they] say, 'Well, he decided on this day to do such and such.' It's not true. It's not history. It's a fact, but it's a misleading fact."

Presidents should beware of such "misleading facts." They should run an internal, candid process of debate and discussion with key advisers that will make sense when it surfaces later. This sort of inside account will be told, at least in part, during the presidency. But the best obtainable version will emerge more slowly, over time, and become history.
.................................................. ...........

not sure if yu seen this I posted in another thread.

#5 is particularly disturbing to me

Bush talks tonight to the American people for the last time.

Something tells me he will be trying to sound positive for taking the country on the brink of being washed down the dumper.

:sadwave:

 

[THE KOD]

Jan 15, 4:30 PM (ET)

By JIM ABRAMS

WASHINGTON (AP) - The direct income President George W. Bush receives from taxpayers will be cut in half when he leaves the White House next week. Still, he'll receive a pension of almost $200,000 to tide him over in his first year of retirement in his new home in Dallas.

Vice President Dick Cheney also will be able to survive a prolonged recession with a pension starting at about $132,000, according to the National Taxpayers Union, a taxpayer advocacy group that follows pension issues.

The president's pension is set by the 1958 Former Presidents Act. Bush, who receives a $400,000 annual salary as president, will get an almost identical pension in 2009 - factoring in the 20 days in January he was still president - the same as Jimmy Carter, his father George H.W. Bush and Bill Clinton.

Their pension for the year is $196,700, a figure that will grow to $203,600 next year and $210,700 in 2011. The NTU estimates that if Bush, now 62, reaches his current life expectancy of 83.5 years, he will receive pension payments of $5,564,800, compared to the $3.2 million he earned serving in the White House.

The 1958 act also provides a former president with office space and office staff, a travel fund and mailing privileges. A presidential widow can get a lifetime annual stipend of $20,000. In fiscal year 2008, the General Services Administration provided total allowances of more than $1 million for Clinton, and almost $800,000 for George H.W. Bush, according to the Congressional Research Service.

Former presidents up through Clinton could, if they so chose, receive lifetime Secret Service protection. Congress changed that in 1997 with an act limiting protection for future ex-presidents and their families to 10 years, barring exceptions for specific threats.

The NTU's Pete Sepp said the "pension champion" was former President Gerald Ford, who served less than 2 1/2 years in the White House but also spent 24 years in the House. He was receiving more than $300,000 a year when he died in 2006 at age 93. Presidents receive the same pension regardless of how long they are in the White House.

Cheney, who also serves as president of the Senate, is on the same pension plan as members of Congress. The NTU estimated his initial benefit of $132,451 based on his more than 29 years of government service, including eight as vice president, 10 as a member of the House and more than 10 in executive positions such as White House chief of staff in the Ford administration and defense secretary in the first Bush administration.

Members of Congress, who can also contribute to 401(k) type programs, are eligible for a pension at age 62 if they have completed at least five years of service or at age 50 if they have completed 20 years of service.

The Congressional Research Service, in a report last year, said the average annual pension currently received by retired members was $36,732 in 2007. The NTU estimated that Ted Stevens, R-Alaska, who was defeated for re-election last November after serving four decades in the Senate, is eligible for an annual pension of about $122,000.

Sepp said a married member of Congress retiring at age 62 after eight years in office would get an initial pension of a little more than $20,000. Rank-and-file lawmakers in 2009 will receive salaries of $169,300.
.............................................................


they should refuse to take any pension.

they already made hundreds of millions while in office.

use that pension money from past Presidents for Health care for the American People.

 

[THE KOD]

Eddie

do you have a pension plan as a attorney ?

 

[The Sponge]

Scotty when u get a chance can u take a glance at this list and see if i missed anything?

http://www.netrootsmass.net/hughs-bush-scandals-list/

 

[THE KOD]

thats quite a list

 

[THE KOD]

you wont have me to kick around anymore !

 

[djv]

The comics will miss Bush thats about it.

 

[gardenweasel]

"BUSH IS GOING TO CANCEL THE INAUGURATION AND DECLARE MARTIAL LAW! ! ! !"

/weasel channeling eddie,scotty,spongy and djv(and possibly angling for uc berkeley tenure)..



:lol:

 

[Skulnik]

Eddie,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6cxNR9ML8k

 

[smurphy]

I was watching Larry King the other night when he had George and Laura Bush on as his guests. This repugnant conglomeration of texas puke was so delusional about his administration, his actions and his legacy it still makes me wonder in amazement how dumb americans are to have elected him president. twice. the guy is certifiable.

I was just looking at him thinking about how he launched this war where hundreds of thousands of people are now dead. I was thinking of these dead children, kids without arms and legs, American soldiers, dead and wounded, while he and Laura were yucking it up with the old jewish guy. While he was doing this, I was thinking about how this war in Iraq was really keeping us safe and what it really was about. I don't think anyone has ever given a concrete answer to that question other than a Viet Nam like "stop the spead of communism" type answer. (replace the word communism with terrorism)

I was watching him tell me how there are people out there who want to kill us and how he took credit for keeping us safe. still using fear as a tactic with only 5 days left to his presidency. The other side to that argument was, I was thinking about how many young terrorists he has created and empowered whose names we currently do not know, but will find out in the future due to George Bush's war, the purpose of which has still not been explained.

He talked of his legacy and his unpopularity. He said he didn't care about his unpopularity. I do remember him saying how he was going to spend his "political capital" when he "won" the 2004 election by 1% of the popular vote. I guess popularity mattered to him then. He must have matured. He said he did the right thing. I was thinking about how americans love a guy who stands by his convictions. they will impale clinton cause he lied on television about a bj without killing anyone but, will stand by a lucky sperm club frat rat chicken hawk who is responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands as long as he portends to be true to his christian convictions.

Amazing country we live in. sexual morality v human death. reminds me of the ru ru joke. 2 missionarys go to africa and are captured by a tribe. both are tied to stakes. chief comes up to the first missionary and says: "death or ru ru". the missionaries have no idea what ru ru is so the first guy says "ru ru". the tribe goes wild. jumping up and down with there spears and shields. they untie this poor guy and the whole tribe starts butt fucking him all around the camp, theres a big cloud of dust as everybody doing the poor missionary in the ass. after about 2 hours of this all of which is happening in front of the 2nd missionary, they drag the first guy back over to the stake barely alive, eyes rolled back in his head, bleeding, gasping for breath. chief walks up to the 2nd missionary and says "death or ru ru". the second missionary after seeing what happend to the first guy, wants no part of that says, "I choose death." chief says" you very brave man, you choose death. but first a little ru ru."

I know its an old joke, goes by many different names, is better told live and all goes into the delivery and further can be stretched out for 10 minutes but I still like it.

Oh well, just my closing thoughts on the worst president this country has ever had. I'm not sure we can recover from his actions and inactions. I am just happy as hell he will be gone forever in just a few more days. Rot in hell you son of a bitch.

Eddie

Good stuff as always E.

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

Well I see we have Madjacks liberal think tank here.
Believe these were the same ones wailing bout why no one was protecting after 911 then when numerous plots are averted and they're safe for 7 years they wail in unison about the methods used?

In going over your members of our liberal think tank- I am going to have to nominate Smurph as your liberal leader--

I believe he has earned designation for his insights-fact finding-statisical analysis and non opinionated contributions to political forum--
In case you wonder how I arrived at this conclusion- here are his last 10 analytical contributions to topics in political forum.



>Good stuff as always E.

>And as readers of his posts, we can all see the irony in this.

>don't you ever get tired of yourself?

>Poor Skulnik. He's gonna spend 8 years trying to prove Obama is Indonesian or Kenyan or Martian - Meanwhile the USA will enjoy a great resurgence. He's gonna miss the whole thing

>Why do you have a Cuban flag as your avatar

>Oh yeah THAT country.

>looks like a commie flag

>Because he's an American and he's our President. Really he shouldn't be bothered with this garbage, don't you think?

>None of this would have been necessary if Cheney didn't have Wellstone killed

>the unfortunate thing is that he's a much more likeable and dignified leader as his days near the end. It's like Cheney and the other fuking lunatics influencing him are finished and he gets to sort of be himself as all the other acts are over and everyone is on the way home.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Scott Nominating you for official think tank photographer with your photo editing skills

--and you Edward will carry on tradition of their lberal poster child.

 

[StevieD]

Great post Eddie!

 

[gardenweasel]

i had mediocre hopes for the man, found myself disappointed or shaking my head more times than i care to think about, but,when looking at the larger scheme of things, he did some good things...and he should be given credit by fair minded people(present company excluded)...

some bad desisions:

shame on him for trusting that incompetent democrats in louisiana(nagin/blanco) would care for their constituents..

shame on his incompetent stance on the immigration issue..

shame on him for border agents ramos and campeon..

shame on him for trying to foist the uae ports deal on this country...


some kudos:

thanks for putting into place the necessary homeland security measures that have kept us safe since 9/11...

thanks for saving millions of lives in africa and freeing 60 million people in asia and changing the course of the middle east forever(the libtards would have one believe that the man is a racist and hates black people)......

thanks for standing up to the most fanatic, supremacist, mysoginistic,sadistic, barbaric and murderous enemy the free world has ever experienced since the 3rd reich.....

thanks for crushing al qaeda....

a lot of people who have criticized him..... sometimes fairly, sometimes not(more times than not) ... tend to forget that during his presidency he faced completely unprecedented challenges.....

now i wonder where all the lib hate will go...all that bile won't just evaporate.....

they chose to focus their hate on their own peeps and not where it belonged, on islamic extremists who kill their own women and children, strap bombs on their teenagers and mentally challenged citizens and declare that there are no gays in their country, people who riot over cartoons who think nothing of firebombing entire neighborhoods in paris, who behead people on camera and broadcast it all over the internet.....

soooooo...now we get?....hope and change....lol


i suggest that free market,democracy loving folks should take this next week to lay in 4 years worth of antiemetics...

btw...those of you that value your "privacy" over the lives of your families and fellow citizens,lets see how many changes bock makes to fisa now that he`s privy to the information and is responsible for the safety of the homeland...i pray that the office and an overwhelming sense of responsibility makes our new marxist/socialist leaning president less so...i pray that he is grounded by real life rather than by his idealism......


"nice post,eddie":dizzy: ......bet this blows your skirt up,counselor...:kiss:

 

[BobbyBlueChip]

Good post, Eddie

:toast:

 

[smurphy]

Well I see we have Madjacks liberal think tank here.
Believe these were the same ones wailing bout why no one was protecting after 911 then when numerous plots are averted and they're safe for 7 years they wail in unison about the methods used?

In going over your members of our liberal think tank- I am going to have to nominate Smurph as your liberal leader--

I believe he has earned designation for his insights-fact finding-statisical analysis and non opinionated contributions to political forum--
In case you wonder how I arrived at this conclusion- here are his last 10 analytical contributions to topics in political forum.



>Good stuff as always E.

>And as readers of his posts, we can all see the irony in this.

>don't you ever get tired of yourself?

>Poor Skulnik. He's gonna spend 8 years trying to prove Obama is Indonesian or Kenyan or Martian - Meanwhile the USA will enjoy a great resurgence. He's gonna miss the whole thing

>Why do you have a Cuban flag as your avatar

>Oh yeah THAT country.

>looks like a commie flag

>Because he's an American and he's our President. Really he shouldn't be bothered with this garbage, don't you think?

>None of this would have been necessary if Cheney didn't have Wellstone killed

>the unfortunate thing is that he's a much more likeable and dignified leader as his days near the end. It's like Cheney and the other fuking lunatics influencing him are finished and he gets to sort of be himself as all the other acts are over and everyone is on the way home.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Scott Nominating you for official think tank photographer with your photo editing skills

--and you Edward will carry on tradition of their lberal poster child.

:mj07: Dork.

 

[Chadman]

I'm a little hurt. I guess I'm either too mainstream or don't post enough for even an honorable mention...

But, speaking of the safety issue, I feel less safe now than before or during any part of the Bush administration. I truly feel that his years in office have contributed mightily to our country being much weaker overall in many ways, and I see other countries making strides - both economic, and militarily - to rival ours in the future. I do place the blame directly on this president, his administration, and the people responsible for getting him where he is today.

 

[smurphy]

I'm a little hurt. I guess I'm either too mainstream or don't post enough for even an honorable mention...

No, you simply put in too much effort into clear and informative posts. I gave up on that long time ago when dealing with a few of these folks. Feels a lot better this way.

 

[Chadman]

No, you simply put in too much effort into clear and informative posts.

Whatever.

 

[Toledo Prophet]

Man, I really wish that we could gamble on some of the likely responses in this forum.

Jack, any way we can post odds.....or is to easy money to do so.

Wease.....always even money to cripe bloody murder about people, gasp, protesting.....he's also 3 to 1 to chirp about drilling as the only way to go and 4/1 to lay zero blame on the prez for Katrina reponse.

Smurph is even money to offer a snide remark.

DTB is 4 to 7....yes very heavy chalk, indeed.....to lean on no attacks on our soul, y'all better drop to your knees and thank the president.....not to mention 3 to 7, more heavy chalk to point out areas in the country being drowned by Dem leaders without ever pointing out areas in the country being drowned by repub leadership. And, complaining about sanctuary cities where Dems are in control and never pointing out his own party's failures on the illegal immigration issue is so much chalk that it is off the board.

Sponge is 2 to 1 to make a rude, somewhat hateful remark about my southern brethern.

There is a whole slew of folks who are 3 to 2 to blame anything, including the wind changin directions, on GWB.

And, there is a whole slew of people at 3 to 2, who on a cold day like today will post a thread saying there is no such thing as climate change, its all bogus.....I wonder why those folks dont post threads when its 65 and raining in northern michigan on xmas......i wonder why not?

And then there is me, toledo prophet, or jamie mac, my real name, who is 1 to 8 odds to say the following:

As a life long pursurer of American history and presidential history knowledge, I can say that our outgoing president is among the worst we have had. on so many different levels. We were better off as a country the second either McCain or Obama won the presidency.

I say good riddance and bring on the new guy......but you're on a short leash and you better perform fast......and dont listen to you party's congressional leadership too much as they are wrapped in as much special interest as the R's who left power in '06.

Eh, you have to wager a lot just to win one unit, but I, like everyone else, has nothing new to say.

Now, lets go back into the football, hoops and golf forums and help each other win buckets of cash in 2009!!! :00hour